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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

False Mysticism

I don't agree. It's an overly simplistic analysis. People are rebelling against intellectualism being used as cultural gatekeeping by elites, especially when those elites have largely cooperated in the impoverishment and debasement of ordinary people.

Genuine Christian spirituality isn't primarily an intellectual task. Jesus never said "blessed are the clever".

What may be lacking is a discplined, prudential approach to living that isn't dependent on external validation by some authoritative institution. Beating up on anti-intellectualism isn't really getting to the heart of the issue.
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Charlie Kirk Didn’t Shy Away From Who He Was. We Shouldn’t, Either

Perhaps in some right wing circles, probably yeah, but hardly in Europe widely.
I don't think you need to be Right or Left wing to support free speech. For western democratic and free nations like those in Europe, Britain, Canada, Australia and NZ we have lived by free speech at least since the Bills of Rights around 200 years ago or more.

Kirk is well known. That is his most redeeming trait. That he created a climate of free speech and dialogue especially with those who disagreed. If there one thing he is recognised for it is this.
He is more known here for his comments on Ukraine and Russia and cooky comments on some European countries and on NATO. So I don't see why he'd be given a moment of silence in the EU.
I don't know. It seems out of character to the person you see accommodating people who even called him all sorts of names ect. This is why I think its a silly game that people bring up all these things trying to find fault.

We all have faults. The people Kirk engaged with were more abusive towards him but no one is mentioning this. There was a lot of explicit and clear attacks on his character and yet this seems all excused. While people are vigoriously digging for dirt. It really reminds me of all the other attempts people have been digging dirt on people. Its every bit as bad as the so called bad Kirk is suppose to have done.
And I do find the comment about free nations supporting freedom's a bit ironic considering his stance on Ukraine and Crimea.
Well all I can go on is how he actually lived qand put into practice that principle of free speech. The very institutions he worked in and engaged with were the cultivators of deplatforming and cancelling alternative beliefs. KIrk is in there giving those very people a platform and bring open dialogue. Which we know is the key to stopping hate and violence as it allows people their say and to enage face to face and talk things out.

I don't think people appreciate how he actually put into practice what he preached. Despite all the claims the fact is he got down to the same level as his decenters and haters and engaged with them in open dialogue. Allowed them to ridecule him, never returned such and was generous in spirit towards others.

You see that in his mannerism and genuine love for others in wanting to engage. Yet people just want to find hate, and all the negative stuff. Which really is just the same kind of rubbish that has caused all the problems.

I mean there are many conservatives and Christians who hold the same beliefs and views. Not the twisted lies that are being told. But the same Christian beliefs which opppose such hate. We see it in KIrk and we hold the same beliefs.

Should all conservatives and Christians be worried for holding the same beliefs.

We should acknowledge at least this positive aspect of KIrk and build on that.
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Former Pink Floyd member Roger Waters faces possible prosecution after supporting banned Palestine Action

One doesn't need to have "officially recognized" power in order to still have power and present a threat.

Those "secret Chinese police stations" don't have any officially recognized power either, but we all still see those a major concern.


Sharia Law courts (like the Chinese police stations) employ "coercion through intimidation". And many times, that coercion isn't in the direction of anything noble or good...and that coercion is in the theme of "if you don't go along with that we say, here's the address of your family members back in the old country, it'd be a real shame if something happened to them"

Baseless innuendo.
  • Agree
Reactions: JosephZ
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Take a stand on political violence

Perhaps we should go back to allowing duels like we did in early U.S. history? It would make public discourse far less hostile. The History of Dueling in America | American Experience | PBS
Duels were tolerated in some aspects of society but were never allowed. This is why Hamilton and Burr chose a particular site for their duel - they thought it would be in a legal jurisdiction that would look the other way. It didn't, and Burr had to go on the run. It's why the Vidalia Sand Bar Fight happened on a sandbar in the Mississippi with what the participants hoped was a gray area legal-wise. If you killed someone in a duel, you were liable for murder. As simple as that. It's why some accounts of duels are muddy: made prosecutions difficult.
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Doxxing and Cancel Culture are Back on the Menu!

But it should be done to show our unity. The national consensus is right on the button. My suggestion really was only pertaining to praising, glorifying and wanting someone dead. As I said before the labeling of websites has nothing to do with things that are debatable such as abortion, taxes, voting registration, LGBTQ issues, whether there is a God, police brutality and so forth. I agree, we'd never get a consensus on those topics but gleefully praising killing someone or groups of people, we can find consensus there easier (I think).

There's rarely a national consensus that's worth considering, especially on controversial topics that get thrown up in algorithmically driven feeds. Distrust of expertise and lived experienced in favor of ideologies rooted in philosophical abstraction and myth are part of what got us into this trouble in the first place.
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What is your theory, belief around Foreknowledge?

Of course their sin is the same as ours. The only difference is they could have chosen to not sin at all. We only sin, because we inherited weakness genetically from Adam, which, together without our own unique circumstances, causes us to be imperfect. But our imperfection doesn't mean we have no choice. It means we will sometimes choose the wrong choice.



Nonsense post.



Stating the obvious. That doesn't mean that a parable has a literal meaning.



But we make the choice whether to give into the temptation.
The general point of this entire sight, that of the tempter within ALL people other than God Himself in Christ, is that there is more than one will in operation. Technically there are 3 wills in operation. God/man and devil(s)

So any notions that the person is the only decider can't even be remotely true. Even if deciding not to sin, we're still sinners because of the presence of the tempter in our own clouded minds. Most can't even perceive this is the case, even though it's broadcast via every evil lawless thought inside our own heads.
I said no such thing. Sin is not eradicated, except through God.
There is no except. God didn't make anyone sinless in this present life.

The person, the child of God is technically sinless, BUT the tempter and his own are not. This is the line between the parties. But they both walk in the same pair of shoes.
The second point is plain wrong. I may sin every day, but that doesn't mean at any particular instant that I don't have a choice whether to sin or not.
You make no choices for the adversary. It's never just you operating in your own head. The fact that you even think you make a choice means there are BAD CHOICES in play in your head.

The real question is, WHY are those choices there to have to choose from and the reality is we all have EVIL present within us via our adversary.
We are all sinners and fall short of God's ideal. But if you set a pattern of sin, it is harder not to sin.
We are never in a state of not sinning or sinlessness to begin with. Our choices never made anyone sinless.
If you set a pattern of repentence, it becomes easier. That has nothing to do with being a better or worse sinner.
We have dominion over sin because we know there is a continual internal battle going on. But we don't dominate over what we claim to not have i.e. sin. The thought, word or deed of sin is ALL defiling and we are all defiled by the mere thought. Mark 7:21-23

Unfortunately believers get suckered into various notions that if they don't do X sin they are then the better sinner and better than the unsaved. That's the first step into hypocrisy. In full blown hypocrisy we need to look at the religious leaders of Jesus' day, as they exemplify the works of Satanic HYPOCRISY "in the temple" of their own bodies.
The only way this sentence makes sense is if you believe in predetermination and fatalism.
We are all predestined to do both good and evil. Satan and his messengers are predestined to the LoF. Every believer if they thought about it for just a tad, would see predestination is simply a fact depending on how it's applied.

We are all predestined to die in the flesh because of sin, until the last harvest of mankind when all people will be separated from our enemies, unseen, as God has predestined that to transpire.
If Adam and Eve had no choice, then they were condemned by God to fail long before they were tempted by the serpent.
Yes, the dust bodies of both of them were never the long term goal of God. They had no choice to not be sinners and "they" were not the only players in the drama.

I'd consider this present life and the history of mankind more about the judgment of these parties being allowed by God to play out in reality, which we are all predestined to have a part in:

Eph. 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

We, all of mankind, were always predestined to judge the angels: The wicked angels.

They will ALL be condemned because of what transpired in US ALL
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BUSTED - 12 False theories refuted:

But there Will be a new Temple in Jerusalem in the end times and there will be sacrifices and offerings made in it. As Prophesied in Ezekiel 40-46.
Ezekiel may not be referring to the NEW Covenant.
2 Thess 2:4 is proof of this
2 Thessalonians 2:4 does not even mention sacrifices, never mind prove they will be made again.
Daniel 9:27, Revelation 13:5-7, confirm it.
Daniel 9:27 talks of putting an END to sacrifices- it does not confirm that they will be offered again in the new temple.
Revelation 13:5-7 does not mention sacrifices.
An understanding of what God requires of His people, is needed, to be His witnesses and His Light to the nations. Isaiah 56:1-8
What God requires of us is to believe in Jesus - this is his work and his will, John 6:29, John 6:40.
Jesus taught that we, his disciples, are to be salt and light to the word, Matthew 5:13-16. We are also to be his witnesses, Acts 1:8.
He said nothing about offering animal sacrifices in a 3rd temple - as they did in OT times.
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What Does the Lord Jesus Mean by “Doing the Will of the Heavenly Father “?

I'll let you speak for you, lol, and let Christ speak for me.

I know who I am. Not because of me, but because of Him and His faithfulness. I keep my faith where it belongs, in Christ.

God will tell us all who knows Him and who doesn't pretty soon.
You should be thankful that the internal temptations are not you, but of our adversary, the tempter. One sided looks at just the person is never legit, scripturally. Most are falsely led to justify the entirety of themselves in Christ however that does not account for "all" of Jesus' Words to mankind or the person.

I'm thankful God is against the evil present, the tempter or his own within everyone, particularly myself, even though it is often unpleasant as in chastisements and tribulations
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The Conjunction of Opposites

The Bible when taken as a whole makes it pretty clear that he was perfect until iniquity was found in him. What you call "nothing more" is actually the basis of why God had to wipe out that time period and start again with this earth age. He was never created as an evil being.

But believe what you will....
Perfect "in thy ways" simply makes Satan a perfect devil.

When we say perfect it can attach to many items or persons. Doesn't necessarily and automatically mean God Perfect or Holy perfect, like a perfect flower or even a perfect man, like Job, still a sinner regardless because sin is "of the devil."

The text does present that there is no such creature here on earth that is a sole individual. There is the person and there is the tempter or his own in operations within everyone. Basic presentation.

However those who champion Satan are probably under the influences, especially when trying to make Satan holy or deny they have tempations via that agent that is not them.
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The Conjunction of Opposites

I know what Jesus said about Satan.

And He never would have said that about Lucifer, prior to Lucifer becoming Satan.
Lucifer deceived, destroyed and imprisoned the world. So does Satan. It's the same entity regardless,

unless you're in some kind of a cult and think that Lucifer was a son of God or Jesus' bro? Arnold Murrayite maybe?
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AI's Take On Religious Hypocrisy...

Re: AI Affirms The Necessity Of God...!

32% is a plurality, not a majority. That does not take into account the "Tares," the "wolves in sheep's clothing" and the "Lord, Lord..." crowd.

If a factory produces far more defective goods than defect-free goods, then there's something wrong with that factory. There's no other way to put it.

You won't join a religion/denomination that doesn't agree with your doctrines or even personal convictions.

If the majority of members are tares, that's because the tares found the religion or denomination agreeable to their personal or even moral convictions.

In John 6:66. Most of the people following Christ left and only the genuine followers stayed behind. That's because the majority are tares.

If a religion is truly preaching the Gospel of Christ, most the members will be genuine followers because the tares can't tolerate those teachings and they will leave.

If you find what seems to be a "Christian religion" but most their followers are tares, then that religion is counterfeit in the first place. They may sound like they're preaching the Gospel of Christ but in reality, they're preaching a different Gospel. Should this religion start preaching the Gospel of Jesus, then most of their members will leave.
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Eric Trump on Charlie Kirk’s Legacy and the Radical Left – “This Could Have Been the Greatest Mistake These People Have Ever Made” (VIDEO)

Another 20 something white male shooter, radicalized by fringe internet groups, but those really responsible are everyone who doesn’t support Trump. Do they even care about the man murdered, or is it just another political goldmine.
So everyone who does not support Trump are responsible for a death? Most do not celebrate a murder. Many care even about the N. Korean civilians killed in a Seal raid during Trump's first term, or even the alleged drug traffickers that got killed in international waters without a trial.
Some too are conservatives that do not support Trump's heavy spending and lack of market economic principles. Many too are just low on Maslow's hierarchy of needs to have the luxury to think beyond paying the rent and food bills. Dialing it up accusing the innocent is quite unreasonable even in the bible.
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White men...u ok?

Okay so no fascists are being murdered?
No there has been plenty of genuine facists that have been murdered or incarcerated since post war. Some correctly judged for crimes committed. But with others being unjustly incarcerated for merely expressing their political beliefs. But seems in todays society everyone is branded a Nazi when their political views disagree with another
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This is the scariest verse in the bible for believers

The industrialized nations are kind of like the beast of prophecy (rome) except now, there are many such beasts. Under the influence of such an entity, the persecution is silent. With the advent of certain social practices, publicly announcing your opinion in general can result in unemployment and homelessness.

So in terms of cost, that's more for God to assess. I wouldn't say it is "low"
Sometimes the cost is not low. Even here in NZ, I once faced a situation where a man (who had others to back him up) threatened to beat me to a pulp and dump me in a gutter if I didn’t stop sharing the Gospel. I told him I would not stop, because people’s eternities are at stake. After a heated 15-minute exchange, I said I would leave for the sake of avoiding a fight and out of respect for him, but I also told him I’d be back the next day.
At that moment, something shifted. He suddenly said, ‘No, don’t leave. I can see you truly believe in what you are doing. Please carry on.’
I was shaken, but I believe my refusal to back down, even in the face of a severe beating, was itself a witness to him that I really did believe the message I was proclaiming. And that’s why we must keep speaking boldly: sometimes the very act of standing firm in the face of threats is what God uses to open hearts.
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Does God want men to choose easy options ?

by the way, I heard an exorcist say when we focus on God and prayerful life, pray as soon it is happening our mind becomes pure and demons hates a pure mind, they can`t work with it.
Alas,.., i conclude i'm not pure minded enough to make them flee. It seems they enjoy dirtying my soul.
But i shall try to keep the idea of your exorcist. May be is it like a piece of wood on the sea shore, that sea can no longer bring toward the ocean, once it (the piece of wood) 's reached few centimeter above its level
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BUSTED - 12 False theories refuted:

All the verses you have quoted to "prove" that animal sacrifices will return, are OT. We are told the kind of sacrifices that God wants; Romans 12:1; Hebrews 13:15.
Sure; we are not required to make sacrifices and offerings now, in this Church Age. There is no Temple, so it is impossible anyway.
But there Will be a new Temple in Jerusalem in the end times and there will be sacrifices and offerings made in it. As Prophesied in Ezekiel 40-46.

2 Thess 2:4 is proof of this and Daniel 9:27, Revelation 13:5-7, confirm it.
An understanding of what God requires of His people, is needed, to be His witnesses and His Light to the nations. Isaiah 56:1-8
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Secular politics and "Equality"

Is today's politics of Marxism, just a deception to covet what others have? So many speaking against the wealthy, and evil of Capitalism simply envying what others have. Are we being stirred up to envy, and covet?
This ends in handing it all over to big Government. to share the booty, until there is no more booty left for the masses?

It's religion now - the religion of equality.

Equality: Everybody has equal booty + all countries equal.

Utopia comes with worldwide equality. Not really but that's what they think.

According to the oral Torah, the Tower of Babel was really about equality. The leaders transformed stones (everybody unequal) into bricks (everybody equal.) That means they enslaved the people. The mortar that held it all together was materialism.

Did you know God hates bricks in altars?

Exodus 20:25 And if thou wilt make me an altar of stone, thou shalt not build it of hewn stone: for if thou lift up thy tool upon it, thou hast polluted it.

Isaiah 65:3 A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick;
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NYT report: In 2019, President Trump ordered Navy SEAL mission into North Korea; mission failed, left unarmed North Koreans dead

The first Trump administration never disclosed the operation to Congress....either before or after. The NYT's notes:

"President Barack Obama curtailed Special Operations missions late in his second term and increased oversight, reserving complex commando raids for extraordinary situations like hostage rescues.

The first Trump administration reversed many of those restrictions and cut the amount of high-level deliberation for sensitive missions. A few days after taking office in 2017, Mr. Trump skipped over much of the established deliberative process to greenlight a Team 6 raid on a village in Yemen. That mission left 30 villagers and a SEAL dead and destroyed a $75 million aircraft.

When President Joseph R. Biden Jr. succeeded Mr. Trump, the gravity of the North Korea mission attracted renewed scrutiny. Mr. Biden’s defense secretary, Lloyd J. Austin III, ordered an independent investigation, conducted by the lieutenant general in charge of the Army inspector general’s office.

In 2021, the Biden administration briefed key members of Congress on the findings, a former government official said.

Those findings remain classified."


And now we have the 2nd Trump term. Given Trump's record of not disclosing military operations to Congress - as every other modern day president has done, Congress is today blind as to operations may be already underway.
Reminds of the movie Clear and Present Danger, lots of things happening but no one taking responsibility. I wonder what the USA would do if a Seal team was captured after killing civilians? I doubt we would get them back without force.
I do remember too the secret raid that Carter used to try and get hostages out of Iran. A helicopter went down getting into position and the mission was scrubbed. It made the news fairly quickly. How things have changed.
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Erika Kirk Delivers Powerful National Address, Says Movement Will Not Die

“The evildoers responsible for my husband’s assassination have no idea what they have done. They killed Charlie because he preached a message of patriotism, faith, and of God’s merciful love. They should all know this: if you thought that my husband’s mission was powerful before, you have no idea. You have no idea what you just have unleashed across this entire country and this world,” Kirk declared.

Amen.
Going on tele to make a speech would be the last thing I would do if my spouse was murdered.
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