All Becomes New said:

Did Paul take a Nazarite vow? Yes or no?

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All we are told is that he took a vow. The shaving of the head may indicate that it was a Nazarite vow:

(Num 6:18) Then the Nazirite shall shave his consecrated head at the door of the tabernacle of meeting, and shall take the hair from his consecrated head and put it on the fire which is under the sacrifice of the peace offering.

But note it was at the door of the tabernacle of meeting. Paul was in Cenchrea, a harbour town in Greece, where there was no tabernacle, synagogue or temple. I repeat, we are not told what the vow was, so it is impossible to give a yes or no answer.

Mark Quayle said:

So, basically, in using RCC dogma/doctrine, you are just noting —not arguing truth... Ok. I can work with that.

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Your comment misunderstands what I am doing: when I cite Catholic dogma I am arguing truth, because the Church teaches—on the authority given by Christ—that “the Church is the pillar and foundation of the truth” (1 Tim 3:15) and that the apostles’ teaching is preserved with divine assistance (John 16:13). Catholic dogma is not a private interpretive lens, but the normative rule of faith defined by the Church Christ established, which Vatican I affirms possesses “the charism of truth” in matters of faith and morals (Pastor Aeternus, ch. 4). So, when I state that predestination is always to grace and glory and never to damnation, I am not merely “noting RCC doctrine”; I am stating what the Church infallibly teaches on the basis of Scripture itself—namely, that God “desires all to be saved” (1 Tim 2:4), that Christ died “for all” (2 Cor 5:14–15), and that no one is damned except by freely rejecting grace (2 Thess 2:10).

Fantine said:

In your opinion, it's absolutely false.

Please read the definitions of socialism and communism and compare them to the scare tactics used by oligarchs and aspiring dictators.

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What are some examples of these "scare tactics" you refer to?

David1701 said:

You need to look at the meanings of the Greek word translated "covenant" or "testament", in the New Testament, not merely the O.C. Hebrew word.

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As credentialed Lexicographers defined original Bible words what it means at the time it was used, Septuagint was a Greek translation of the Old Testament but what Lexicographers defined were original Bible words, Old Testament books were written in Paleo Hebrew script, Hebrew and Aramaic. That I would prefer the definition of it from original Hebrew word.

David1701 said:

An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth is part of the O.C. law, given to Israel by God. The ten commandments were just the first instalment of that law.

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The Ten Commandments was the set of ten fingerwritten by God, and added no more.
If it was just an installment, could we cite a verse of other additional fingerwritten Laws of God in stone?

Deu 5:22 "These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly at the mountain from the midst of the fire, of the cloud and of the thick gloom, with a great voice, and He added no more. He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

David1701 said:

The ministry of the Spirit is not only that God's laws are written in our hearts, but that the Holy Spirit leads us in what to think, say and do. It's a living relationship with the Lord, not just a set of rules.

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Do you believe that the Holy Spirit will led us to sin?
If not, then that proves that there are rules the Spirit would led us not to do.

David1701 said:

That is, more or less, what I posted. The law is the ministry of death and condemnation, because sinful man will not and cannot keep it.

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Yes, as we all fall short to the glory of God, but when we follow all the guidance of the Holy Spirit and not opting to our own passions and desire, we will not be under the Law or we'll be freed from the Law, means freed from sinning and become slaves of righteousness. (Rom 6:18)

Rom 6:18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

David1701 said:

Being free from the law also means that we are not under it for justification, sanctification or as a way of life.

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Yes, we're justified by our faith, not by the deeds of the Law. As by God's grace we are saved through our faith.
But faith must be shown by works, not to be saved but by being saved, just like the "saints" who will be spared from the lake of fire, the second death. (Rev 14:12, Rev 20:9,10,14)

David1701 said:

Yes.

Yes, as far as it goes; however, that omits half of the story. We are kept, by the power of God, through faith (which itself is a gift from God; and the gifts of God are irrevocable) unto salvation. Also, those who have been born again, by the Holy Spirit, are unable to practise sin, since they have been born again (1 John 1:9).

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Yes, as professed Christian,we had to we deny ourselves, means "to lose sight of one’s self and one’s own interests" and take up our cross, means "to be ready to encounter any extremity" and follow Christ.

Mat 16:24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me.

Mat 16:24 ThenG5119 JesusG2424 saidG3004 to His disciplesG3101, "IfG1487 anyoneG5100 wishesG2309 to comeG2064 afterG3694 Me, he must denyG533 himselfG1438, and R1takeG142 up his crossG4716 and followG190 Me.

G533
ἀπαρνέομαι aparneomai
Thayer Definition:
1) to deny
1a) to affirm that one has no acquaintance or connection with someone
1b) to forget one’s self, lose sight of one’s self and one’s own interests

G4716
σταυρός stauros
27x: a stake; a cross, Mat_27:32; Mat_27:40; Mat_27:42; Php_2:8; by impl. the punishment of the cross, crucifixion, Eph_2:16; Heb_12:2; meton. the crucifixion of Christ in respect of its import, the doctrine of the cross, 1Co_1:17-18; Gal_5:11; Gal_6:12; Gal_6:14; met. to take up, or bear one’s cross, to be ready to encounter any extremity, Mat_10:38; Mat_16:24.

Aussie52 said:

Sue, I would add that,1. New Testament tongues were known human languages. Acts 2. 2. They are always linked to the gift of interpretation.1 Cor 14. There is no evidence of a 'private prayer language' in the New Testament.

Blessings.

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Yes, they were known languages on the day of Pentecost. That doesn't naturally interpret that it was always that way from that moment forward. Paul's indication was not that these were known languages that the people were speaking in the gatherings of the church, but that they were unknown to the people and thus could not be understood, for they were speaking to God and not to the people.

Dives and Lazarus were in 'Hades' not Hell. Hades has a paradise section and a torment section with a great gulf in between.
When Christ rose from the dead and ascended, He took the souls in the paradise section to Heaven with Him. And that is where the saints go at death awaiting the Resurrection.

I think without doubt, the New Testament gift of tongues was known human languages. This is not what we see by and large in Pentecostal/Charismatic circles today. Which begs the question, what are modern day tongues if they are not human languages?

FreeinChrist said:

Really?!? Proof?
We could go back to when the South was primarily Democratic before the Civil Rights Act was passed under Johnson and see some rigging via Jim Crow stuff. But that was over 60 years ago.

Since the south turned mostly Republican, where have the Democratic Party rigged elections??
Back it up. Otherwise it is just unsupported insults.

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I don't think you want to go back in history on stuff like this as it does not bear well for the dems.

FreeinChrist said:

Since the south turned mostly Republican, where have the Democratic Party rigged elections??
Back it up. Otherwise it is just unsupported insults.

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From the video linked earlier

An audit of a New York City election in 1868, for example, found that 16% of all votes cast were fraudulent, by Democrats in Tammy Hall. In 1948, Lynden Johnson infamously stole a Texas Senate seat thanks to the drop of 202 late votes in ballot box 13 giving LBJ an 87 vote victory.

In 1994, Democrats tried to steal a state senate seat in Pennsylvania. On election day, Republican Bruce Marx led Democrat William Stinson by over 500 votes. But the absentee ballots curiously went overwhelmingly for the Democrat, giving Stinson just enough votes to win overall.

In that case,, a federal judge found that Philadelphia election officials had illegally delivered hundreds of absentee ballot packets directly to the Democrats. who in turn collected votes from people who were ineligible to cast votes when they weren't forging the votes outright.

Democrats ran precisely the same absentee ballot playbook in 2003 in the East Chicago Indiana mayor's race. Fraud we know about only because the Indiana Supreme Court decided to get involved, ordering a new election, which the Democrats then lost.

Democrats reliance on absentee ballot harvesting became so widespread, especially in states such as Illinois, Arkansas, and Georgia, that the1982 Illinois elections resulted in 62 indictments and 58 convictions for election fraud involving not only campaign workers, but precinct captains and election officials.

In Chicago alone, a grand jury found that 100,000 fraudulent votes had been cast. Chicago had already been a central hub of Democrat election theft for decades. Most infamously exemplified by the 1960 presidential election in which Robert Dick, a biographer of both John F. Kennedy and Richard Nixon, concluded that Democrats quote probably stole Illinois from Nixon.

In 2020, Democrat politicians infamously changed voter laws throughout the United States to increase absentee ballots and insecure ballot drop boxes in some cases such as Pennsylvania in violation of the state constitution.

Despite claims of perfectly secure elections, hundreds of Democrats over American history have been convicted over election fraud. And those convictions represent only a small percentage of cases which represent only a small percentage of allegations of voter fraud widely acknowledged by historians.

FreeinChrist said:

Perhaps because they question what the Republicans are going to share them with? Or purging valid voters from the rolls because they are Democrats.

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No that is exactly what they are trying to weed out. If its transparent then all will see whether there is fraud or irregularities going on with both sides.

Its a simple and widely used principle of transparency used across all areas of governance and institutions and even within organisations so that not only is the process legal and fair but is percieved to be so because no one has anything to hide.

Considering the long track record of the dems doing exactly what has been alleged it seems reasonable to now be open and put this to rest. Otherwise it will continue to undermine election integrity. What have they got to hide.

Capbook2 said:

I believe this thread is about Sabbath keeping, that's why the focus is about the Sabbath, the fourth in the Ten Commandments.
Nothing was change on God's Laws from the old covenant/agreement to the new covenant, only the placement.

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You're conflating and reducing God's law to the 10. The 10 are an expression of God's law within a covenant framework intended for the post-exodus Israel. If from stone to heart means a verbatim transfer, then what is the point? We already have the 10, and doing some hand waving, saying it's now transferred to the heart doesn't actually do anything if it's the same letter.

of the heart is an internalized signal. It is the purpose and intent of the law, internalized into the heart, so our actions are not just about falling in line with a raw, unfiltered commandment; it is living and dynamic, and it works in all circumstances.

The law says do not murder, perhaps not for all, but for me, that is quite easy to resist. I can, in fact, be confident that I am 6th commandment compliant in all circumstances without an extra mental load on my part. However, if that law is reframed to say love your neighbour as yourself, then that requires active participation and a lot more investment. So what is written upon my heart? is it "do not murder, steal, lie, etc..." or is it "love your neighbour as yourself". Of course, nothing verbatim is written upon our hearts, which would defeat the "of the heart" quality. The Spirit is the author of that which is upon our hearts and our "hearts" are a spiritual signal; The Spirits words are living and dynamic, but they are not static 10. If we see someone beaten and left for dead in the ditch, if we respond to the 10, we may cross the other side and keep on walking, being confident we are compliant; however, if we are responding to the Spirit, we immediately respond and care for the person. The 10 can produce legalistic responses and although can be technically compliant they may counter God's character where the Spirit produces responses always of the heart and in line with the Character of God

The former is a product of compliance with the 10, the latter is responding to the Spirit. If we say the 10 is God's law, then we must look beyond the letter and look to its intent and purpose, but even then, they fall short and are incomplete. Reading the 10 isolated misses the point; if we read it with the complete covenant, you can gain a broader sense of a complete functioning system. For example, I may read Ex 20 and keep the stated commandments, but be detached from those around me and generally apathetic. However, if we read Ex 21, 22, 23 you learn that it is a part of the interconnected system of caring for each other. The 10 cannot function alone, and if they are not part of a wider covenant system, they are detached from living and are more about resisting evil rather than functioning as a part of loving each other.

God's character, his law does not change, but the verbatim letter written upon stone does in fact change to better reflect the character of God while guided by the Spirit, so we may respond in all circumstances without excuse because we can no longer claim ignorance, but have access to the wealth of knowledge that is of the Spirit at all times in all in circumstances no matter how nuanced or complex.

Capbook2 said:

Paul confirmed to us that the second part of the Ten Commandments was fulfilling the Law.
The Law of "loving of our neighbors" is not to commit adultery, not to murder, not to steal and not to covet.
This verses proves that the Law and commandment here refer to the Ten Commandments.

Rom 13:8 Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET," and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."
Rom 13:10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

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Christ confirms this first that all of the law and the prophets hang upon the 2 commandments. Paul is not showing us a new revelation; he is teaching us what Christ taught, not an isolated 10, but an emphasis on love over raw, verbatim letter. Christ is asked which are the greatest, his reply first is the Shema (love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, etc...), which was highly agreeable and already central to Jewish worship. But the Shema alone is lofty and doesn't unpack the practice of how to reach this goal. Christ then quotes the 2nd greatest which is loving your neighbour as yourself, and by doing this, he is coupling these together, showing that the latter is fulfillment of the former. The Shema was always the goal; the question posed, "which is the greatest," is in the context of the Shema and assumes it as the goal of the question. Christ then reframes it to show that loving each other is central to loving God, showing that failing this, nothing else has meaning and it all is rooted in a meaning of loving each other.

Obviously, love does not produce murder, stealing, lying, adultery, or coveting, which is all true, but it also goes well beyond those limits. Our action turns from passive aversion to active participation in all things we do. The first 4 commandments all have monotheistic claims to them, the 4th is harder to see but regardless of which version you take, the exodus version anchors it in a monotheistic creation ("For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore..."), and the deut. version anchors it in a monothestic conqueror/liberator ("You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore..."), both are appealing to a one-God rule. One says look to creation, the other says look to your liberator. Ex 20 itself opens with the context of "I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery..." so there is a constant reminder about who God is and that he is the focus of their allegiance without competition all in a Israel covenant framework.

The Shema, however, is more developed and appeals to these monotheistic values on deeper levels, saying "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart...." (Deut 6:4-6) In light of this foundation, there can be no idolatry, or graven images, false gods, or taking God's name in vain, as those are not compatible with a monotheistic belief of one God or an expression as developed as the Shema. The 4th still fits as a fundamental monothestic claim, but if our gaze is focused only God, then everything else aligns, similar to if we love each other as ourselves, we are not going to murder, steal, lie, etc... if we love God, we are not going to have other idols, etc... That alignment was through the written letter of the covenant, and in the new covenant, that alignment is through walking in the Spirit. Does walking in the Spirit produce the 4th commandment alignment? Not strictly in terms of keeping a day, it aligns with its true purpose and focus, which points to Christ. That's not to say that keeping the letter of the 4th is not consistent with these values; it certainly is, the day testifies to Christ, so we need to ensure that its central value is focused on pointing to Christ over keeping a day. This means "day" can be flexible; it is not the day that is holy, but it is Christ's completed work, and when we are through Christ, we become the thing that is holy. We can't

Capbook2 said:

How do you express "love?" (Rom 13:8-10)
Isn't doing Jesus commandments is expressing our love to Him?

John 14:15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

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You can't quote John 14 if you don't quote John 13 first. Jn 13:34-35 "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. 35 By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another."

Capbook2 said:

Yes, again loving God is observing His Commandments.

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.

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Love is central to Johannine epistles. in 1 Jn 2:7, John says "I am writing you no new commandment..." This is a call back to John 13:34-35, John doesn't give a new commandment and are not in isolation, he reminds us who gave us the new commandments and his words are rooted in it. You see "commandments," you see "law" and cross them out and say this means the 10 commandments. I see context, I read the surrounding text and point to an in-context explanation. Isolating the 10 the way you are doing is not something the text cannot support, and you are introducing foreign goals to the text.

Capbook2 said:

Yes, the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
And again, the "loving our neighbor" as the texts says is not to commit adultery, not to murder, not to steal and not to covet.

Gal 5:14 For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."

Rom 13:8 Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET," and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."

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Love your neighbour as yourself goes beyond the 10. It is about active participation with those around us vs a detached avoidance of evil. Those two concepts alone show the 10 isolated are lacking and at the very least need a greater context for fulfillment. "love your neighbour as yourself" gives it this context, but then you need to ask why do you need the 10 at all if the "love your neighbour as yourself" not only accomplishes the goal but goes beyond it.

Capbook2 said:

Well, maybe the "saints" that keep the Commandments of God whom will be spared from the lake of fire, the second death also not enough.
If it's not enough, it's our choice whether to be spared or not from the lake of fire, the second death, is our own decision.

Rev 14:12 Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

Rev 20:9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Rev 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

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Anyone can throw these statements around and passively accuse the other of their salvation, but they have no place in these forms. It is disappointing, and might I add, forces me to question your character when you've digressed to these levels. Please rise higher.

Praying!

He might want to try taking 300mg of ubiqinol daily, I hear that can do wonders for the cardiovascular system.

stevevw said:

I have said all I want to say and I agree we will have to wait and see. Its a sad situation for all and for society. The main thing is that this is now spilling out into the streets and this is not good. That such a situation can escalate into a society wide war is a blight on society and will cause many more to suffer. This is not justified.

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That's because blacks and whites over react at times.

This is St. Victor, a majestic gem and speaks to the inspiration of the generations who built it and felt the presence of the divine there. And continue to, every day in and around that structure. The architectural traditions in Mediterranean France do of course differ from what you'll find in Greece, even from the same era but you can see and feel the similar inspiration.

The Main Event
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* What is the relationship of Israel (descendants of Jacob) to the Church (Body of Christ)?

* Is that relationship one of, continuity, discontinuity or a mixture of both?

*Can this relationship be explained outside of Covenant or Dispensational theology, or not?

*Are there two peoples of God at the present moment or only one?

* When 'all Israel will be saved' Rm 11, will it be as a part of the Church or separate to it?

I appreciate your input as I am grappling with these questions, having recently relinquished Dispensationalism.

Blessings.

Blueprints said:

Nope. I cited the sources.

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It's not your sources, it's your flawed logic.

Aussie52 said:

Sorry Dan, but I was unaware that one had to be a Pauline dispensationalist to, as you wrote, ' be in the faith'.

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And read Rom 16:26. and see !!

dan p

It looks like the FBI /Army need to arrests Trump and everyone, that's protecting rapist in the oval office. And just released everything in Epstein files. And arrest the guilty.

If this does get signed Friday, let's understand what this is. This is a basically a reset back to when the Strait of Hormuz was open. At least for 60 days. Trump talks about the great accomplishment of the Strait now being toll free. It was toll free before he started bombing. Where we are at now is billions of munition spent. 13 dead US soldiers. A Iran girls school bombed killing over one hundred. And a new Ayatollah who is far more the hardliner than his Dad. Nuke talks have been pushed back. Nuke talks where neither the US or Iran have event hinted of compromise.

Are we winning yet?

Tuur said:

With electricity, though, the issue is location, location, location. I think geothermal is way cool (so to speak) but getting it to where it needs to go in the US can be iffy. Granted that Nebraska isn't a vast wasteland, but there's not many urban centers close by.

Same problem. Without a way to store electricity from intermittent sources, you have to have other capacity that you can bring online. It's when that capacity is no longer sufficient or removed that there's trouble. Here we have people jumping up and down like a Richard Simmons on a sugar high about solar without solar and wind and never realizing that's only part of it. Then, when some of us point that out, we're told "Oh, but surely they've taken it into account." Wishful thinking doesn't keep the lights on.

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Storage is one leg of the solution, but building overcapacity, and an integrated power grid and diverse sources can help as well (if there already is hydroelectric, saving that water is in effect a battery even without pumped storage). Not burning (as much) fuel in a gas-fired plant is also a type of storage.

These are not insurmountable challenges in general. For some places perhaps. Biofuels are also solutions in some places, they work really well for combined heating and power generation plants (it is the main heating source in Sweden, we get them as a byproduct of the wood industry).

Renewables (ca 50%) + nuclear (ca 20%) makes up the majority of energy sources for electric power generation within the EU. The US cannot copy it directly, but across the world there are a lot of tried and tested system approaches. Pick and choose solutions that are suitable for each area/state.

BibleBeliever1611 said:

What's so interesting about this thread is that people appear to be more interested in virtue signalling and stirring up strife rather than offering a better interpretation of what perfect hatred means in their mind.

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How about explaining what perfect hatred means in your mind and how having perfect hatred for someone cause you to conduct yourself towards them?

Sea Turtle.