The Reality of Free Will
- By childeye 2
- Christian Scriptures
- 112 Replies
It depends. Some choices you have to make out of necessity. The term choice in the sentence above is a choice/option referencing Deuteronomy, being presented by God, that the Israelites had to decide between. It qualifies as an antecedent event.
God says choose life which means to me that He doesn't want the people He's talking to, to choose to die. The choice/decision is therefore not voluntary because one MUST choose to live or die.
Moreover, assuming the people already have the will to live when the option is presented, it qualifies as a choice/decision made out of necessity.
Choose Life is said after presenting the option to live or die. If I were there I would take it to mean God wants me to live and subsequently he instructs me to do these things to live and not be cursed. Since I don't will/desire to die or be cursed, I'd need to listen to His instruction.
10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
16 In that I command thee this day to love the Lord thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the Lord thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.
19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
He' s referring to the commandments underscored above when he says he presents life/good and death/evil. Let's remember that in hindsight, these commandments are going to condemn all mankind as worthy of death, so that God can gather up according to His grace and mercy.
I believe it's through a false imagery of god. The first lie ever told to mankind was conveying through subtlety that God is a liar.
When we say a subjective view of right and wrong, it generally demotes a single person's view. The objective view accounts for all subjective views. For example, the left/right dichotomy shows two equally valid opposing subjective views with the objective view at the center. God is Love and the subjective point of view is a limited view. Hence--> Love others as you would want to be loved <-- contains both God/Love and accounts for all subjective views.
I believe God exists Eternal by definition. I believe right and wrong are relative to God as the Light.
Just like the creature doesn't create the Creator.
Adam and Eve were innocent, no moral/immoral knowledge, no wisdom in the moral sense. James is speaking to all of us about our flesh, and finally, we don't volunteer to be made flesh. Our flesh existence is an antecedent event. That's why there is a carnal will.
The proper way to articulate it is an unforced decision is a free will decision. That's an adjective describing a voluntary decision. I agree that God will let us go find out for ourselves that we should have trusted Him and that He has our best interests at heart. Just like in the prodigal son, he didn't force the son to stay. I would argue that the decision to leave was a desire based on false imaginings, and the will/disposition of the prodigal son when he left was not the penitent will/disposition that brought about his return.
I'm just believing what scripture says. God's Word is the Life and Light of all mankind.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
Semantics.
By grace through faith in His Christ. It's a revelation.
I believe He told them they would die if they ate of the knowledge of good and evil, to know right and wrong. I believe He wanted their relationship to be based on faith. Therefore, I wouldn't think He would want them to reason between right and wrong.
I've already shown why Timothy 2:14 doesn't validate that Adam made a willful/intentional choice. I believe Adam ate reluctantly. To make a willful/intentional choice to eat when God had told him he would die if he did, would indicate he either wanted to die or he knew God was a liar.
I do NOT believe Adam ate willfully as in --> intentionally disobeying God to cause harm. If He wanted to eat willfully, then he would have done so without the antecedent event of the serpent and the woman telling him he would not die.
This is why his not being beguiled doesn't prove his intention to either want to die or believe God is a liar.
I know what it says here --> 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
I don't see "don't touch it".
Scripture says He told them they would surely die, and they believed Him, right?
They would have had to eaten of the tree to contemplate the moral/immoral sentiment of right and wrong. They didn't have that knowledge. I have that knowledge. If I were asked why it is wrong to disobey God, I'm going to say God is always right. That's not a sentiment Adam and Eve could have expressed. Eve's testimony that God said they would die if they ate indicates she believed/trusted God.
Can you agree with that?
Well semantics is not about grammar. It's about expressed meanings. The analysis of sentiments that words carry when expressed.
I'd first need to see the semantical construct of the question. Did you use the word 'wrong'?
Would these scholars teach that the commandment to not eat shows an intent to protect the man and woman from harm?
That's what scripture says --> And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden.
9 And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
Yes, they could see the fruit. Their eyes were opened means to me they realized they were naked.
He didn't know he was naked before he ate of the fruit. He was afraid when he heard God's voice. Are you saying that his nakedness represents guilt?
Here's what scripture says in Genesis 2:25 --> And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed. <-- here they're not ashamed of being naked.
Genesis 3
7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons. <-- Here they've realized they were naked and are ashamed.
8 And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden.
9 And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
Scripture indicates he was afraid of God's presence.
Adam says he was afraid because he was naked. <-- It's possible he's lying.
Adam says, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid <-- It's possible he's telling the truth.
11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat. <--He could be trying to blame God and the woman, or he could be speaking honestly.
I don't see any reason to project that Adam was lying. God's responses indicate He believes their account.
We will be judged by how we judge others, so we need to be careful not to project our wickedness onto Adam and Eve -->15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
CoreyD said:
Both Adam and Eve knew it was wring to disobey God, and they both confessed to their guilt, after hiding... though they tried to pass blame from themselves. Genesis 3:12, 13
This is what free will is about - God allowing humans to make their own decisions to act on their own accord, according to their own desire.
Jesus is not saying they freely choose to act of their own accord, he's saying they will do what their Father does.
God said they would die if they ate of the forbidden fruit. The scriptures do not indicate that Adam had a desire to die; so to say that Adam knew what he was doing, is to say Adam knew God was lying. More probable is that he didn't know who to believe God or his wife.
Did you just write what I just read?
Can you clarify, did you make a mistake.
I need to know, if to continue.
That's why I believe he ate reluctantly not willfully.
willful
adjective
will·ful ˈwil-fəlvariants or wilful
Synonyms of willful
1
: obstinately and often perversely self-willed
a stubborn and willful child
2
: done deliberately : intentional
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