Israel-Hamas Thread II

[Benaiah468]

The US State Department has appointed veteran diplomat Steven Fagin, currently the US Ambassador to Yemen, as the civilian head of the new American Gaza Coordination Centre. This was announced by the State Department in Washington following a visit by US Secretary of State Marco Rubio to Israel.

The centre, officially called the Civil-Military Coordination Centre, was established this week in southern Israel. It is intended to support the implementation of President Donald Trump's 20-point plan for Gaza and ensure the coordination of humanitarian aid. The aim is to combine the reconstruction of the coastal enclave with a long-term security strategy for Israel.

The coordination centre operates under the leadership of US Central Command (CENTCOM). Military command is held by Lieutenant General Patrick Frank, commander of US Army Central. Fagin is responsible for the civilian component, a role that combines political, diplomatic and logistical responsibilities.

Foreign Minister Rubio visited the centre on Thursday and promised to send more US diplomats to support the approximately 200-strong US contingent. ‘It is a historic step that shows that the US is not just talking about stability, but wants to actively secure it,’ Rubio said.

Fagin is part of the experienced core of the US foreign service. He has been in the diplomatic service for over 25 years and most recently headed the US embassy in Yemen, albeit from outside the country, as Washington does not recognise the Iran-backed Houthi regime in Sanaa. His experience in dealing with crisis states and non-state actors is considered crucial in Washington for the complex Gaza mission.

A spokesperson for the State Department said Fagin's role is to ensure that humanitarian aid flows are ‘coordinated, verified and not manipulated by terrorist structures.’ Washington emphasises that the US is working closely with Israel and moderate Arab partner states to ensure that the planned stabilisation does not enable Hamas to return to power.

In Jerusalem, the US initiative is being met with cautious optimism. Government representatives emphasise that Israel will only agree to international missions that ‘guarantee Israel's security and do not undermine it’. Following Foreign Minister Rubio's recent statement that no country will take on troops or mandates in Gaza without Israel's consent, Fagin's appointment is seen as a further step towards coordination between Washington and Jerusalem.

 

[Benaiah468]

In recent days, diplomatic ties between Qatar, Turkey and Hamas have noticeably intensified. Officially, the focus is on ‘humanitarian aid’ and rebuilding the destroyed infrastructure in the Gaza Strip. In reality, however, this alliance has a different goal: securing its ideological and political power after the end of the war.

While Egypt and Saudi Arabia are negotiating with representatives of the Palestinian Authority in Cairo about administrative structures for the post-Hamas era, representatives of Qatar and Turkey are meeting in Doha in close consultation with the Hamas leadership.

This week, the Emir of Qatar, Tamim bin Hamad al-Thani, welcomed Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan for talks on ‘the reconstruction of Gaza.’ What appeared in official communications to be a routine meeting actually marks the beginning of a strategic alliance: both states, ideologically influenced by the Muslim Brotherhood, do not want to lose their influence in Gaza.

The day before, Turkish Foreign Minister Hakan Fidan, Turkish intelligence chief İbrahim Kalın and the Hamas leadership met in Doha. The message was unambiguous: Ankara does not just want to mediate, Ankara wants to help shape the process.

For Hamas, this is more than symbolic. Qatar continues to provide financial backing, while Turkey provides political legitimacy. Both states see themselves as protective powers of an Islamist order that opposes the Western-Arab alliance.

Opposing this axis of political Islam is the moderate Sunni bloc, led by Riyadh, Cairo and Abu Dhabi. Their goal: to place Gaza under pragmatic administration, supported by Arab security forces and a reformed but non-Islamist Palestinian administration.

Both Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates know that a return of Hamas in political form would jeopardise the entire regional balance. They fear that Doha and Ankara will play the religious card again, this time not with rockets, but with aid money and diplomatic cover.

That is why there is open talk in Riyadh of an ‘Arab protection mandate’ to stabilise Gaza from within, a plan that can only work with Israeli approval.

Jerusalem observes both sides with justified mistrust. The Israeli government rejects any form of Hamas involvement, whether political, religious or disguised as civil, and at the same time has little confidence in the Palestinian Authority's ability to take control of Gaza.

Israel recognises that the real conflict is not only military but also ideological: between a political Islam that sees the destruction of Israel as a divine duty and those Arab states that have long accepted peaceful coexistence with Jerusalem as a reality.

But as long as Western states continue to treat Doha and Ankara as ‘mediators’, the balance is unlikely to shift.

For Israel, one thing is clear: there must be no return to the old patterns. Anyone who wants to ‘rebuild’ Gaza must first prove that they do not intend to infiltrate it ideologically.

After all, those who decide today on the cement for new schools may tomorrow decide on the schoolbooks and thus on the thinking of a new generation.

 

[Benaiah468]

Two years after the start of the Gaza War, what many military officials have suspected for months is coming to light: the underground war is far from over. Defence Minister Israel Katz told US Vice President J.D. Vance at a meeting that over 60 per cent of Hamas' tunnel systems have not yet been destroyed. This figure is shocking, not only militarily, but also symbolically. It reveals how deeply rooted the enemy is, literally beneath Israel's feet.

The remaining tunnels extend on both sides of the so-called ‘yellow line’, including in areas that are now under Israeli control. Katz described their destruction as ‘a key joint task in the demilitarisation of Gaza under the Trump plan.’ The Israeli army is working ‘around the clock’ to locate and blow up these networks, even now, during the current ceasefire.

The explosions that residents have been hearing around the border area in recent days are not the result of attacks, but of systematic demolition work. They are the echoes of a war that continues underground. For the tunnels are more than just concrete tubes, they are the backbone of Hamas, its lifelines for weapons, supplies, fighters and hostages.

The fact that over 60 per cent of them have survived means that the threat remains very real. Last week, terrorists emerged from one of these tunnel connections and killed two Israeli soldiers, Itay Ya'abetz and Yaniv Kula, near Rafah. It was a reminder that this war is not a closed chapter, but an ongoing struggle for control and security.

The Israeli leadership sees the destruction of the tunnels as a crucial step towards securing the conditions of the ceasefire in the long term.

But this goal remains difficult to achieve. Over many years, Hamas had built an underground empire, a network of tunnels, workshops and bunkers stretching from Rafah to Beit Hanun. Many of these facilities are located deep underground, reinforced multiple times and equipped with electricity,

Added to this is the unresolved problem of smuggling routes between Egypt and the Gaza Strip. Despite Israel's refusal to withdraw from the Philadelphi Corridor, experts warn that mere control of the border strip is not enough to stop underground supplies. As long as Hamas is able to smuggle in building materials, explosives and weapons underground, its military infrastructure remains capable of regeneration.

Israel's task is to disarm this invisible empire piece by piece, not only with explosives, but with strategic consistency. For every tunnel that is not destroyed is an open wound in the body of the country.

 

[Benaiah468]

It is a sight that leaves one stunned: men who once killed, kidnapped, tortured and murdered Jews are now lying on sun loungers by the pool of a five-star hotel in Egypt's capital. According to an exposé in the British Daily Mail, more than 150 released Hamas terrorists are staying at the Marriott Renaissance Mirage City in Cairo, a resort that also accommodates Western holidaymakers who have no idea that they are in close proximity to convicted murderers.

While Israel was forced under enormous international pressure to release nearly 2,000 imprisoned terrorists, including 250 sentenced to life imprisonment, many of these men now enjoy luxury, comfort and protectionm, in the middle of a country that is officially a partner in the fight against terror.

According to the Daily Mail, 154 of the 250 released Hamas members are currently staying at this hotel, where room rates are equivalent to around 900 shekels per night. Where business travellers, diplomats and tourists from Europe usually stay, men like Mahmoud Issa now enjoy their breakfast buffet – the terrorist who kidnapped and murdered Israeli soldier Nissim Toledano in 1992.

Another, Az ad-Din al-Hamamara, was responsible for recruiting "Palestinian" suicide bombers. Sami Abu Naama and Yusuf Daoud, who were also convicted of multiple murders, are among the guests, according to the report. Photos show them eating, walking on the manicured lawns and relaxing on sun loungers by the pool. The scene is less reminiscent of ‘exile’ and more of a holiday.

Tourists staying there sleep next door to men whose names were on Israel's wanted lists. The hotel management has remained silent so far, as have the Egyptian authorities.

According to the British report, some of those released are expected to travel on to Qatar, Turkey or Tunisia in the coming weeks, three countries that have become safe havens for Hamas officials in recent years. There, they will not face imprisonment, but political asylum, and often financial support.

Israel's Defence Minister Israel Katz had repeatedly warned that many of those released ‘will kill again as soon as the opportunity arises’.

The revelations from Cairo show how real this danger is. It is not a new beginning, not rehabilitation, it is the reward of evil.

The fact that these men sunbathe at the same pools as Western tourists is symbolic of our times: the normalisation of immorality, indifference to the suffering of victims, and the silence of those who should know better.

 

[Benaiah468]

Under Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez, Spain has become a country that not only criticises Israel, but systematically demonises it.

The latest highlight of this development is the investigation against steel manufacturer Sidenor, one of the country's largest industrial groups. The Spanish judiciary is investigating alleged deliveries of steel to Israeli arms companies, including Elbit Systems. The allegations: violation of the arms embargo, lack of permits and, believe it or not, ‘aiding and abetting genocide’.

Sidenor is not an anonymous backstreet operation. It is a long-established company that has been supplying international markets for decades. Its products are used in mechanical engineering, infrastructure projects and safety components. The fact that such a company is now appearing before a Spanish court for allegedly selling steel to Israel reveals not legal zeal, but political hysteria.

The judiciary is investigating as if it were a war crime and the government is nodding in agreement. In doing so, it is concealing the fact that Spain itself continues to export arms to dictatorships that show no respect for human rights. Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Qatar, Egypt, Venezuela, Iran, all these countries have purchased weapons or technology from Spain. No court has ever brought charges. Only when it comes to Israel does morality suddenly come into play.

The historical irony is unbearable: Spain, of all countries, which exterminated its Jewish population in the 15th century, organised forced baptisms and expulsions, and destroyed hundreds of thousands with the Inquisition, now allows itself to accuse the Jewish state of ‘genocide’.

Exports to Israel are banned but gas is imported from Qatar, which finances Hamas. International law is invoked but dictators in Tehran are courted. The country presents itself as a moral power but remains silent on the atrocities in Syria, Sudan and Venezuela.

Spain stands alongside anti-Israel campaigns, the BDS movement, and moral hypocrites who have never been to Sderot, Nir Oz, or Be'eri, but know exactly who the bad guys are.

 

[Benaiah468]

Buddy - we see through your indignation straight into the jail cell waiting patiently behind you.
Go away Bibi - you're a whining little boy who has lied almost as much as Trump.

Go straight to jail - do not collect $200!

Images from the Turkish port city of Trabzon have already gone around the world: a life-size effigy of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu hangs from a construction crane, with a sign above it reading: ‘The execution of Benjamin Netanyahu’.

And Erdogan?

He remains silent because silence works in his favour. He doesn't need to incite hatred, he just needs to let it run its course. The mob will do the rest.

While he speaks of ‘dialogue’ in international forums, Israeli flags are being burned in his country and anti-Semitic caricatures are going viral.

The hanging doll in Trabzon is not an isolated incident, but rather a symbol of Erdogan's political system: a country that not only tolerates violence against Jews and Israel, but cultivates it while presenting an image of peace to the world.

Under Erdogan, Turkey is therefore not a neutral player in the Middle East, but an ideologically charged power factor that has made Islamism, anti-Semitism and political influence a tool of its foreign policy.

 

[eclipsenow]

Those who can shop in Gaza today either belong to Hamas structures or have come to terms with them. Hamas cadres, smugglers, middlemen and influencers with ties to terrorism are enriching themselves at the expense of the population's suffering. Aid supplies disappear, donations end up in TikTok accounts, while some "Palestinians" starve. If you want to help Gaza, you have to remove Hamas from power.

If you want to remove Hamas from power - how about Israel obey international law and Resolution 242 and get out? Just leave? Leave it up to the international community to establish a legitimate Palestinian Authority?

Just think how much money and BAD PRESS that would save "Israel".

The photos were taken by "Palestinian" photographer Majdi Fathi and shows the Al-Sahaba market in the centre of Gaza. Traders hawk fruit, customers stroll by with plastic bags, children snack on figs. Amidst it all: Israeli goods, Israeli money, Israeli aid.

Yeah - nice photo op. Tell us all - why did "Israel" reduce 400 aid points to just 4? Oh - by the way - where's a nice shot of the Israeli soldiers being commanded to do belly shots one day - and ball shots the next? Those photos really belong in "Israel's" photo album! (These stories from Doctors without Borders and other groups, NOT Hamas!)

What stands in the way is not some Israeli plan for genocide.

Yes it is. Not only is support for WHY "Israel" is fighting starting to drop - but support for for HOW "Israel" was fighting is now condemned twice as much as accepted by younger people. From Pew Research:

Evidence about the link between Hamas and UNRWA is public knowledge.

It's tricky. What is Hamas? How do we separate out the militants from the bookkeepers just trying to keep Gaza ticking? Remember how they got peace in Northern Ireland? It involved dealing with a broader political movement that may have had some militant wings in it - but recognising sometimes compromise is necessary for peace.

However, from the Wiki (emphasis mine)

In October 2025, the International Court of Justice (ICJ) found that "Israel has not substantiated its allegations that a significant part of UNRWA’s employees are ‘members of Hamas… or other terrorist factions”.[28][29][30]​

Indeed UNRWA is behind the many improvements to Palestinian school books. They're not perfect - and neither are "Israel's" schoolbook depictions of the 'Other'. Given the intense persecution of Palestinians by the "Occupiers" it's amazing more content does not slip through. But UNRWA are monitoring it - and removing any violent content that might come from Palestinian publishers. If anything "UNRWA has come under criticism from Hamas for teaching Palestinian students Western values. According to Hazem Balousha, some Hamas officials objected to UNRWA organized trips for Palestinian students to visit Holocaust remembrance sites."

For decades, UNRWA has been regarded as an untouchable institution. It administered schools, health centres and aid programmes, financed by Western countries, which pumped over a billion dollars into the structures every year.

Yup - because IMAGINE what would have happened to the Gazans if we had left it up to "Israel"? Militant Zionism is escalating.

More of this? But NOTHING TO SEE HERE FOLKS - it's ALL those "Palestinians!"

West Bank community left reeling after Palestinian woman clubbed by masked Israeli settler​

..."Locals say a group of more than 12 young Israeli men threw stones at Palestinians working in the fields and set alight three cars."​

​

Video at link below.​

The world is watching, buddy!​

​

The unprovoked attack took place in the village of Turmus'ayya in the West Bank.​

West Bank community left reeling after Palestinian clubbed by masked Israeli settler

Settler violence against Palestinians in the West Bank ramps up every year during olive harvest, but a brazen attack caught on camera has left the community shaken.

www.abc.net.au

I condemn the Hamas attack in the STRONGEST possible terms!
Except - I condemn "Israel" killing 43 TIMES more people - 18,000 children - in even STRONGER terms!
Watch the video above. Militant Zionism is out of control. Young people are taking matters into their own hands.
And what will Israel do about it?
What standards of policing apply? Of justice?
This was a few peaceful Palestinian women just trying to harvest some olives.

But Hamas membership lists and other documents found in Gaza, showing that over 15% of UNRWA’s senior educators in Gaza, in 60 UNRWA institutions, are members of the Hamas and "Palestinian" Islamic Jihad terrorist groups.

Unless you provide a source for such claims, I am just going to see them as "Israeli" propaganda.

Israel is about as trustworthy as Trump these days.

In fact - you've Gish Galloped with a wall of text again so I'm just not reading any further. The MOMENT you drop ONE SINGLE controversial claim without a source I can investigate, I stop reading.

It's just "Israeli" propaganda.

It's a shame - because there were more photos and links below.

But I've told you - to keep this manageable I would really appreciate a 300 word limit and sources. I copied and pasted your last 4 POSTS into Microsoft Word and it counted over 2000 words. That's behaving like Trump - "Flooding the zone." Get real. I'm not reading all that.

 

[rjs330]

or anti-semitic is going to become meaningless.

In this case it won't because the UN has become antisemitic.

It will become a cliche that just means anyone who doesn't support Israel's right to mass murder and more crimes and starving a population out.

It might if Israel was mass murdering and did more crimes and starved people out. So its not because Israel isn't.

It did

Nope. Your bomb forensic expertise aside.

guess that means you can't use soldiers. May as well just nuke the entire area!

Good thing they didn't do that. Instead they told the Gazans where to go.

You know who blockaded Gaza for decades and decades against international law?

You know why that happened? Yup. Hamas. Hamas was breaking international law all the time in attacking Israel. Gee I guess they should have been stopped. But they weren't were they.

You know it's sociology 101 that if you come in and steal someone's land against international law, and surround them with walls and turn their hometowns into open air prisons, and restrict their trade and travel, and treat them like criminals, and generally behave terribly to them and restrict their economy and even access to reliable electricity - that eventually you're going to face disorder or even a rebellion.

You know Israel left Gaza 20 years ago.

But make no mistake. Israel have occupied both of these lands against international law for over half a century.

I guess the Palestinians shouldn't have been attacking them then. Against international law. Gee no one stopped them despite it being against international law and all.

This ended up becoming the 1948 Arab Israeli war in which Israel took even more land than was allocated to them.

I guess the Arabs should have left Israel alone.

There are over half a million Jewish settlers in the West bank,

I thought we were talking about Gaza.

few wars later and we are in the current situation where the Palestinians don't have any of their own land because

Because they've turned down every agreement. You know if they weren't so violent they may have an agreement by now. But they just cant stop the violence.

Ghettoization

Is the fault of the Palestinians. They could have a nice land if they weren't so violent and antisemitic.

 

[eclipsenow]

In this case it won't because the UN has become antisemitic.

It hasn't. Only Militant Zionists would argue that because they don't like seeing a displaced people getting closer to getting a home. I honestly don't know which is worse in terms of global stability - Militant Islam or Militant Zionism.

But I know who the worse is between Israel and Palestinians. I know who has stolen more land and trapped more people in the world's largest open air jails.

Israel by far!

Not just the 67,000 people Israel slaughtered in Gaz - but the over 1000 people Israeli settlers and soldiers (and sometimes it's hard to tell the difference) who have killed and displaced Palestinians in the West Bank.

You just can't treat people like this and not expect a resistance to form.
(Graphic from Al Jazeera)

It might if Israel was mass murdering and did more crimes and starved people out. So its not because Israel isn't.

18,000 children killed in Gaza. The area declared to be in starvation.

It's not just the UN, but Doctors without Borders and other agencies reporting this.

Oh - and it's all so VERY useful and above-board that Israel stopped journalists going in there to monitor the war!

Nope. Your bomb forensic expertise aside.

Yep - and it's not mine. You can look up the stats - if you can handle data challenging to your worldview.

Good thing they didn't do that. Instead they told the Gazans where to go.

Except half the time - where to go meant "This pile of rubble with no water or food vs that pile of rubble with no shelter or food."

You know Israel left Gaza 20 years ago.

Thanks - I do need to be more precise in my language. Gaza is not occupied. I grant that! But it is trapped within a wall and under various embargoes that Israel periodically tightens the screws on. It is a Ghetto - a Concentration camp if you will.

I guess the Palestinians shouldn't have been attacking them then.

Over half a century? Come on mate - that's so weak! Waaaa - the Palestinians threw some rockets at us? Why's that? Oh - because we OCCUPIED THEM for over half a century - and have denied the Palestinians statehood for nearly 80 years!

Yeah right. The Palestinians really caused all that!

I guess the Arabs should have left Israel alone.

So now it sounds like you're saying they deserve what they get - so Israel doesn't have to obey international law and the norms of "Just War". Yet on the other hand, they're the shining light in the Middle East and deserve ALL our military support because they're so brilliant.

Except - there's that international law business!

I think we're done here. You caught me on ONE semantic slip - but the facts are not your friend in this. Israel has lost so much sympathy in the genocidal way they conducted themselves.

 

[rjs330]

It hasn't. Only Militant Zionists would argue that because they don't like seeing a displaced people getting closer to getting a home. I honestly don't know which is worse in terms of global stability - Militant Islam or Militant Zionism.

Militant Islam. But the truth is there isnt really any militant Zionism.

The Arabs in Palestine aren't a displaced people. They got themselves involved in a war they couldn't win. THEY are the ones that caused instability in the region. And have been doing so for many years now.

But I know who the worse is between Israel and Palestinians. I know who has stolen more land and trapped more people in the world's largest open air jails.

They haven't stolen any land anymore than the Arabs stole it.

The Pslestinians created their own difficulties.

Not just the 67,000 people Israel slaughtered in Gaz

War is hell. I guess they shouldn't have started it.

18,000 children killed in Gaza. The area declared to be in starvation.

If you believe the numbers its dyill Hamas' fault for stealing the aid.

Yep - and it's not mine. You can look up the stats - if you can handle data challenging to your worldview.

Its still Hamas' fault. Israel wouldnt have had to do any of it if Hamas would've surrendered. Or better yet if Hamas and other Palestinians wouldnt have attacked them over the years and on October 7.

But it is trapped within a wall and under various embargoes that Israel periodically tightens the screws on. It is a Ghetto - a Concentration camp if you will.

Thats their own fault for being do violent. There didnt used to be a wall you know. But Israel had to build one yo try and protect its citizens. Same for the iron dome and same for the blockaids. Gee if the Arabs there would've taken all the aid and used it to build a better land and economy instead of spending it on war tunnels and weaponry it would have been a better place. But instead they torn it down with their own hands.

Yeah right. The Palestinians really caused all that!

Yip, they did. Israel wasn't launching rockets at themselves. Before that it was other kinds of attacks and suicide bombers. An the Palestinians refused a two state solution every time. Yeah they CAUSED it.

So now it sounds like you're saying they deserve what they get - so Israel doesn't have to obey international law and the norms of "Just War".

Yeah its s just war. Go whine somewhere else. The Arabs in the area have been violating international law forever with all their terrorist money and terrorist attacks. Its a just war against terrorism.

Its not a genocide. If it were Israel could have pretty much killed everyone by now.

I won't listen to Hamas propeganda news. They are as good as Goebbels. Gotta kill all those nasty Jews. Its all their fault because they want to exist and be left alone.

 

[eclipsenow]

Yeah its s just war. Go whine somewhere else.

I choose to wine here because last time I looked this forum had freedom of speech within certain bounds, and I'm within certain bounds.

And just as we have certain boundaries on behaviour in this forum, there is this thing called just war theory.

Getting to chummy with those who are happy to breach it is a sign that something's off in our moral codes.

As repugnant as the Hamas attack was, and it's awful as their methods were which I have admitted above many times, there is much freedom fighters as the French resistance were against the Nazis.

Article 242 of the United nations is a thing. Israel have been defying that for far too long, and just as the Oslo accords looks like they were about to be a fruit the Israeli prime Minister that agreed to them was assassinated by a right-wing crazy. There's a lot of right-wing crazy going around these days. Justifying awful awful things. Justifying things that are as bad as anything left when crazy or fascist crazy really!

Be very very careful what you get cosy with. I am not cosy with the Hamas attack.

But nor am I happy the way many American evangelicals are to cosy up to Israel as if they're a shining light in the world. They are not, and have not been for generations. Israeli people I guess are one subject, but the Israeli leadership have systematically abused the favour of the US and broken international law for decades. It's time for this to end.

Look up article 242 of the United nations. It's a thing.

 

[rjs330]

As repugnant as the Hamas attack was, and it's awful as their methods were which I have admitted above many times, there is much freedom fighters as the French resistance were against the Nazis.

Except Israel hadn't invaded Gaza and was running it. Israel left Gaza as you admitted. So no, they weren't freedom fighters. They were terrorists trying to kill as many of the hated Jews as they could becauae rhey don't believe Israel should exist. I don't believe the French continued to fight Germany throughout its history even after WWII was over.

Unless I'm mistaken. Maybe they are atill launching attacks and bombings and suicide bombings inside Germany and I just have missed it.

I choose to wine here because last time I looked this forum had freedom of speech within certain bounds, and I'm within certain bounds.

Yeah and I also have freedom if speech and can share my opinion on your whining.

Getting to chummy with those who are happy to breach it is a sign that something's off in our moral codes.

Which is what people are doing when they support Hamas by telling Israel to stop their just war.

As far as UN 242 is concerned.

Is Israel in Violation of UN Resolution 242?

Its up for debate. Secondly, the UN is an anti-semetic organization and Israel should flat ignore whatever they say. Unless they are willing to enforce their edicts upon the rest of the world they arw useless. What has rhe UN said about Russias invasion of Ukraine? Which of course was an invasion. What's the UN going to do about that?

 

[eclipsenow]

Except Israel hadn't invaded Gaza and was running it. Israel left Gaza as you admitted. So no, they weren't freedom fighters.

I guess in your world there's no wall surrounding Gaza - and no boundaries imposed by Israel on the sea?

Is Israel in Violation of UN Resolution 242? Yes - they are - until both Gaza and the West Bank have territorial integrity and the Palestinians have control over their own resources and labour and freedom of movement.

No debate - except from reality twisting Militant Zionists.