Should Christians stop saying homosexuality is a sin if it increases suicide?

[Maria Billingsley]

The LGBT community like to pick extreme examples of "conversion therapy" which is a term rarely used by Christian counselors, who mostly engage in talk therapy where goals are decided by the client and strategies decided collaboratively to address the issues.

I know Christians who have struggled with same sex attraction all their lives but continue to follow Christ and live according to His teachings on sexual morality. While I believe in deliverance, I know that sometimes God allows us to depend on Him to carry us through the difficult times. Legislating to make professional therapy illegal is an assault on freedom of choice and a denial that many people with ssa choose to marry and have a family, and for them the help of a Christian counselor can be very beneficial.

The problem is the parents of children who struggle with their sexuality are being abused by conversion therapy. Minors have no choice as they are under age and must comply with parental discretion even if it is misdirected. I am sure you know this. I have no issues with adults seeking therapy on their own however, trying to reprogram your child is wrong, wrong, wrong. This is where suicide attempts are on the rise. Conversion Therapy for LGBT Kids Linked to Higher Risks of Depression & Suicide
Blessings
*ONLY THE HOLY SPIRIT CAN CHANGE*

 

[MayYouBeBlessed]

Ah, but now you are talking about something different--judging.

Don't hide behind words. Judging is a greater sin than any sin. Don't throw stones at LGBQT. Love them. Embrace them. Tell them about salvation in Jesus from all sin. We are ALL grave sinners!

 

[Albion]

Again, nowhere in this resolution does it say Christian counseling should be banned. In fact, it says the very opposite. Did anybody read the resolution?

Bill Text - ACR-99 Civil rights: lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender people.

Here is what it says: urges church, counselors, pastors, and others to avoid supporting the historic Christian view of sexual ethics.

 

[MayYouBeBlessed]

But nothing he taught us about?

Yes, everything He taught us. Especially:

"Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven".

It's about time Christians listen to Christ... Shall we?

 

[Cis.jd]

In the real world, Chrristians do not just go "that is a sin" towards a homosexual. They do and say a lot more to them that leads them to suicidal thoughts.

While it is understandable that Homosexuality shouldn't be celebrated like a pop cultural expo, and if they chose to be married then do it outside of the Church.. you have to be the most arrogant person on earth to think that you don't have more sins than the gay person you're beating over the head with the Bible.

Apparently in the NT it was always the religious people who had more sins than the prostitute or tax collectors and Jesus was more angry towards those who "followed the laws".

 

[Albion]

Don't hide behind words. Judging is a greater sin than any sin. Don't throw stones at LGBQT. Love them. Embrace them. Tell them about salvation in Jesus from all sin. We are ALL grave sinners!

LOL. Words do matter. And the words of Scripture mean what they say, not what we would prefer them to have said.

 

[MayYouBeBlessed]

Here is what it says: urges church, counselors, pastors, and others to avoid supporting the historic Christian view of sexual ethics.

Historic Christian view of sexual ethics is wrong. LGBQT are not bigger sinners than Christians who judge them.

 

[RDKirk]

I would be curious to know what you think the Church's job is, if not to preach the faith? Fellowship with coffee hour following?

You speak as though you haven't been actually reading what I've been writing.

Do that, and we'll talk more. Otherwise, you're just being insulting.

 

[MayYouBeBlessed]

LOL. Words do matter. And the words of Scripture mean what they say, not what we would prefer them to have said.

Absolutely. Words do matter. I never said they don't.

Don't play with your words to erase the eternal words of Jesus:

"Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven".

 

[JacksBratt]

I am not raising the question of whether homosexual activities are sinful. I am addressing the situation of whether saying so publicly causes LGBT people to self harm.

The catalyst for this question is the recent Californian Assembly Concurrent Resolution (ACR) 99

"The resolution, ACR-99, Civil Rights: Lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender people, urges counselors, pastors, churches, educators, and others to avoid supporting the historic Christian view of sexual ethics. The measure says such support can result in "disproportionately high" rates of suicide, attempted suicide, and depression among persons who identify as LGBT."
The Christian Post

Also relevant is this video which was made in the context of a sports star here in Australia quoting 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 on his Instagram account and being fired.

I don't think that people are suicidal due to any specific Christian outlook. Most don't care, don't believe there is a God.. and in their minds "if there was a God, He is mean"....

I think that people, deep down, know that it is unnatural..That's why it is so insulting to point it out...

Notice how you can joke about a man being bald... yep... happens all the time.

Do we joke about women being bald... anyone being obese? Nope...

I believe that this is true because we can joke about things that are natural... Happen all the time to many people.. like men being bald.

However, a remark about a person being obese... speaks to something unnatural, unhealthy. It's an assault on them. It's saying "you're not normal".

People know what is normal. What is accepted as natural... Going outside of that, for whatever reason.... is not determined by Christian religion...

 

[Yennora]

I've never noticed anyone pushing their worldview on others who don't want to hear it.

I was a Muslim raised in the U.S.. While people were polite there weren't a whole lot of people talking to me about faith at all..

You can go your entire life in this country without really having a clue what it is that Christianity is actually teaching, and so I'm not convinced that there is a lot of bashing of homosexuals in this country by Christians.

I was in the Bible belt and wasn't getting bashed by anyone for having a different faith..

And before I converted to Christianity - it was the issue of sin and a savior which made me question my own faith.. it wasn't because a bunch of people were hiding sin from me..

I respect and value your testimony. The problem however, is that not everyone is willing to be converted this way. I'm an example. I once visited a church where the priest was condemning homosexuality in a sort of angry tone and I felt violated. I mean, I'm not a homosexual, but his tone made me not want to hear anything from him anymore.

I'm now in a church where the priest only advises, he is also a good listener. When I told him about me leaving the Orthodox faith and being non-denominational he only gave me advice but never got threatening or punishing (It is an Orthodox church). That's what we should do, when people come talk to us seeking advice we should give them that advice. We can also share our testimonies online or in visible places as you did now. But I don't think that being pushy achieves anything.

That's why generalization is very dangerous when it comes to such matters. Every person is different in their approach to God. If you want to preach this way you can make a blog and share your ideas, you can write books, you can publish online streams.. you don't need to go feed them the word forcibly, because while some of them might listen, some others will grow more anger towards God and it will be considered a violation of their freedom rights anyway.

 

[AACJ]

I am not raising the question of whether homosexual activities are sinful. I am addressing the situation of whether saying so publicly causes LGBT people to self harm.

Is your question intentionally vague? By that I mean, when you say "cause," are you meaning direct causation or indirect causation? There certainly is a difference. Perhaps you are not distinguishing between the two. If not, then why? Are you assuming that publicly condemning that which is sinful or evil is a precondition--or a cause to certain individuals committing suicide? There seems to be a difference there.

No, publicly condemning that which is inherently sinful/evil is not the direct cause of anyone committing suicide. That applies to the public condemnation of any thing that is sinful or evil. Anything.

 

[Albion]

In the real world, Chrristians do not just go "that is a sin" towards a homosexual. They do and say a lot more to them that leads them to suicidal thoughts.

Some people holding placards on a street corner, perhaps, but it is far from true that Christians "do not just go' that is a sin.'"

That is, in fact, exactly the position, the approach, that most Christians who are concerned about this matter take.

 

[MayYouBeBlessed]

I don't think that people are suicidal due to any specific Christian outlook. Most don't care, don't believe there is a God.. and in their minds "if there was a God, He is mean"....

I think that people, deep down, know that it is unnatural..That's why it is so insulting to point it out...

Notice how you can joke about a man being bald... yep... happens all the time.

Do we joke about women being bald... anyone being obese? Nope...

I believe that this is true because we can joke about things that are natural... Happen all the time to many people.. like men being bald.

However, a remark about a person being obese... speaks to something unnatural, unhealthy. It's an assault on them. It's saying "you're not normal".

People know what is normal. What is accepted as natural... Going outside of that, for whatever reason.... is not determined by Christian religion...

I disagree. I know several homosexuals who have suffered immensly and had suicidal thoughts precisely because of sin shaming.

 

[Hazelelponi]

"At some point" is after they have accepted Jesus.

When did Jesus call out the sin of the Samaritan woman at the well? After she had accepted Him.

We have to get that sequence correct. Paul laid it out--the person who is still enslaved to sin cannot get himself out of it, nor will he even consider it wrong until after he has made Jesus his master.

And how many of us have been Christians for many years and are still uncovering and confessing our own sins?

As one of my pastors lamented to me, "Homosexuality is the one sin we require people to fix before we even let them through the door."

The Samaritan woman already knew about sin and the whole why a Messiah would be necessary. Jesus wasn't speaking to someone who had no concept of sin, or who had no background of what a Savior was for.

She believed He was the prophesied Messiah, and then was convicted of her personal sin.

How many people even understand sin or have a concept of the Messiah?

I'll guarantee you it's far far far far fewer than one might imagine. Most Christians don't even understand sin or savior...

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Here is what it says: urges church, counselors, pastors, and others to avoid supporting the historic Christian view of sexual ethics.

It says no such thing. Did you even read it?

“Resolved, That the Legislature calls upon religious leaders to counsel on LGBTQ matters from a place of love, compassion, and knowledge of the psychological and other harms of conversion therapy; and be it further

Resolved, That in addressing the stigma often associated with persons who identify as LGBTQ, we call on the people of California–especially its counselors, pastors, religious workers, educators, and legislators–and the institutions of California with great moral influence–especially its churches, universities, colleges, and other schools, counseling centers, activist groups, and religious centers–to model equitable treatment of all people of the state”

This is something that Christians should be doing anyway, because the Bible tells you to, not because the State of CA asks you to.

 

[MayYouBeBlessed]

I've never noticed anyone pushing their worldview on others who don't want to hear it.

I was a Muslim raised in the U.S.. While people were polite there weren't a whole lot of people talking to me about faith at all..

You can go your entire life in this country without really having a clue what it is that Christianity is actually teaching, and so I'm not convinced that there is a lot of bashing of homosexuals in this country by Christians.

I was in the Bible belt and wasn't getting bashed by anyone for having a different faith..

And before I converted to Christianity - it was the issue of sin and a savior which made me question my own faith.. it wasn't because a bunch of people were hiding sin from me..

And now that I'm a Christian and Muslims will say I'm going straight to hell, I'm not in the least suicidal.. because I don't believe them, and I don't have mental health issues.

Pepple are dead scared of Muslims, don't compare.

 

[JacksBratt]

Don't hide behind words. Judging is a greater sin than any sin. Don't throw stones at LGBQT. Love them. Embrace them. Tell them about salvation in Jesus from all sin. We are ALL grave sinners!

There is a mental disorder called "gender Dysphoria".. It's real and should be treated as such... with no stigma..

If you have a mentally ill person who believes that there are voices speaking to them, trying to get them to do things, or trying to harm them.... You are not helping them if you tell them that the voices are real...

Same with gender dysphoria... we are not helping them if we tell them that they really are a woman, even though every cell in their body is male..... it's a mental thing.. nothing physical about it..

This is why, after surgically trying to get the physical reality to match the mental non reality..... doesn't change the rate of suicide.

 

[Yennora]

Pepple are dead scared of Muslims, don't compare.

This made me laugh, it is true though. I remember once a student in my university sort of mocked the Bible on an online educational platform supervised by the university and they did nothing to him, because it is a far left university. (even though their policy is against bringing religion up). I wonder if he did that to the Quran, he would have paid the price real high. It is quite sad but true.

 

[Albion]

You speak as though you haven't been actually rea'ing what I've been writing.

Do that, and we'll talk more. Otherwise, you're just being insulting.

Oh come now. If I unintentionally misread you, I would have welcomed--and expected-- you to point out where you think the mistake was, and that's all that was necessary.