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Featured Should Christians stop saying homosexuality is a sin if it increases suicide?

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by creslaw, Jul 7, 2019.

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  1. creslaw

    creslaw Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I am not raising the question of whether homosexual activities are sinful. I am addressing the situation of whether saying so publicly causes LGBT people to self harm.

    The catalyst for this question is the recent Californian Assembly Concurrent Resolution (ACR) 99
    "The resolution, ACR-99, Civil Rights: Lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender people, urges counselors, pastors, churches, educators, and others to avoid supporting the historic Christian view of sexual ethics. The measure says such support can result in "disproportionately high" rates of suicide, attempted suicide, and depression among persons who identify as LGBT."
    The Christian Post

    Also relevant is this video which was made in the context of a sports star here in Australia quoting 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 on his Instagram account and being fired.

     
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  2. devin553344

    devin553344 Enlighten our lives dear Lord

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    One cannot stop preaching the scriptures because someone decided to commit suicide. The same applies to being a drunkard, drug addict, sex addict, adulterer, thief, murderer, etc. It's not only homosexuals that commit suicide.

    We preach the good word, because it is good. Does good cause someone to commit suicide? if not then perhaps they committed suicide because of some other fault.
     
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  3. Richard T

    Richard T Active Member

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    Is the leadership the legislature in California or the word of God? With that said, we are to have a speech seasoned with grace. It is not enough to talk about individual sins, we need to share the good news, that Jesus took away all the sins of the world and new life can happen to those that are born again.
     
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  4. Deborah D

    Deborah D Prayer Warrior Supporter

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    Part of sharing the Good News--that Jesus Christ saves us from our sins--is sharing the bad news--that we are sinners. It is the TRUTH that sets us free!
     
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  5. creslaw

    creslaw Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I agree with your sentiments expressed here but one of the problems I find is that homosexuals identify themselves by their sexual orientation whereas other sins are acts that people do. Most people recognize when they are doing wrong but LGBT ideology says it is not wrong to engage in same sex behavior because it is an expression of who they are. When we say homosexuality is a sin what we are actually saying (in their mind) is an attack on their personhood.

    I'm not sure how we address this but it seems important to keep the focus on the behavior, not the person. I would say that homosexuality is not a sin, nor is it a sin to be homosexual ... it is only homosexual behavior that the Bible speaks against.

    That is why I have reservations about the post of the Australian rugby player who was fired for placing this on his Instagram page.

    "Warning - drunks homosexuals, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists, idolaters, hell awaits you. Repent. Only Jesus saves. Those that are living in sin will end up in hell unless you repent. Jesus Christ loves you and is giving you time to turn away from your sin and come to Him" ​

    Homosexuality seems to get an inordinate amount of attention in the churches these days probably because it is one of the primary issues challenging church unity.
     
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  6. creslaw

    creslaw Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yes, I think it is fair to examine the claim that by saying homosexuality is a sin religious people are causing LGBT people, especially the young, to commit suicide in greater numbers. The Bible speaks of our conscience accusing or excusing us (Romans 2:15) so I think a deep seated feeling of being wrong is not generated only by external social prejudice, although I think bullying & ostracism can be contributing factors.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
  7. creslaw

    creslaw Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I was surprised to learn recently that Jesus talked about Hell more than any other person in the Bible, and that He described Hell in greater detail than He did Heaven.
     
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  8. Deborah D

    Deborah D Prayer Warrior Supporter

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    Yes, sadly, hell is a very real and horrible place where there is nothing of the goodness of God, while heaven is permeated with all that He is. We should not wish hell on our worst enemies, but I believe that God desires to use us to snatch as many souls as possible from its fires as it is not His will that any should perish, but that all would come to repentance, turning from their sins (2 Peter 3:9).
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
  9. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    It's also important to note that Jesus was almost always talking about the self-righteous going to hell.
     
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  10. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Goat Whisperer Supporter

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    It may also bring them to a point of repentance.
    M-Bob
     
  11. creslaw

    creslaw Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think Jesus was very comprehensive in his description of who will go to hell (Matthew 13:49-50; Mark 7:21-23).
     
  12. LaBèlla

    LaBèlla Well-Known Member

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    I think it’s evident by the emphasis on this site, the media, and church sermons that some sins obtain significantly greater dialogue and focus than others. God addressed many issues in the bible but the ones most mentioned are abortion, homosexuality and politics.

    I’ve grown increasingly weary of hearing the arguments and postulations and I’m a believer. I can only assume the same holds true for those within these circles.

    It’s the absence of even handedness of biblical precepts that’s a turnoff. If we were fervent about God’s word in its entirety that’s one thing. But the cherry picking is nauseating and wholly hypocritical.
     
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  13. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    This would tend to counter the thinking behind the California resolution, then, rather than support it.
     
  14. creslaw

    creslaw Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think it is being forced on to the Church - have you considered the recent ACR-99 mentioned in the OP? The situation in the schools with increasing LGBT ideology being incorporated into the curriculum also requires a response. And aggressive litigation instigated by LGBT complainants has alerted the church to its vulnerability.

    I don't see how the Church can avoid confronting the issue but how that is done is something we need to carefully consider, and with what impact on the lives of especially teenage homosexuals.
     
  15. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    The attack upon the Constitution goes on...and takes many forums. This is just one.
     
  16. creslaw

    creslaw Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think the reasoning is that religious groups are among those creating the "stigma" by teaching that homosexual behavior is sinful and thereby contributing to the high suicide rate.

    ACR-99 "The stigma associated with being LGBTQ often created by groups in society, including therapists and religious groups, has caused disproportionately high rates of suicide, attempted suicide, depression, rejection, and isolation amongst LGBTQ and questioning individuals".
     
  17. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Thats part of it, but what was said in the post to which I replied said a lot more.
     
  18. LaBèlla

    LaBèlla Well-Known Member

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    Solomon’s words hold true. There is nothing new under the sun. The church will always face challenges to God’s precepts because they’re righteous. Each generation believes their threat is the greatest. But rest assured another will follow because sin doesn’t sleep.

    But I’m reminded of a line from Mulan which articulates my stance:

    “No matter how the wind howls, the mountain cannot bow to it.”

    Irrespective of the challenges. Irrespective of the laws and proposals. My response must be steadfast and unshaken. I cannot succumb to fear, hysteria or knee jerk reactions in response to what’s taking place. Or adopt behaviors which make me equally culpable in the eyes of God.

    I’m not subject to the same scrutiny and ridicule for my sins. No one is camped outside my door with bullhorns and signs. And the majority who engage in these behaviors never encounter the same.

    If we were honestly applying the mandate to love our neighbors as ourselves we’d see a different approach, voice, and a bounty of grace and compassion. This is judgment not love and we will reap its fruits. We already have.
     
  19. Hazelelponi

    Hazelelponi Well-Known Member

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    If you don't point out sin, or define it, then you cannot express why people might have need of a savior in the first place.

    If you can't point out persistent, ongoing sin, you can't ask people to examine whether or not they truly belong to Christ, or whether they may find themselves in the Lord Lord group.

    A truncated gospel does no one any good. If people commit suicide because they, like all of us, are sinners, that's not the fault of God.

    When we, as sinners, face for the first time the fullness of our sin, some of us are more like the Ninevites of Jonah's day in that we feel sorrow for our sin and repent. Others might fall short in repentance but continue in their efforts to do right, and still others may find repentance too difficult and walk away..

    but how many just kill themselves, and is it a healthy response to hearing that a God you don't follow or don't believe in might not accept you in His presence in the afterlife?

    I'd posit that anyone who became morose to the point of suicide, instead of being in the first three categories has mental health issues that we, as passersby, are in no way responsible for. .

    You can't hold the general population responsible for the individual mental health issues of the smallest minority, when no one believes what they believe in order to hurt another person.
     
  20. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    I don't believe that Christian preaching per se is causing anyone to commit suicide. I would agree with the factor that homosexuals face overall social prejudice. That's not new and it didn't originate with Christianity. We tend to think of homosexuality as having been considered "normal and accepted" in the old Roman empire, for instance, but it really wasn't. It was viewed more like the way prostitution is viewed today.

    I do believe that Christians in general are following an unscripturally wrong and failing strategy in dealing with homosexuality, however.

    Only Christians are in danger of hell because of homosexuality or any other specific act of sin, such as unforgiveness, greed, and envy. Those warnings are for believers, not for unbelievers, because an unbeliever's specific actions are irrelevant.

    Unbelievers are condemned because of unbelief, not because of any particular action. No unbeliever is going to hell because of homosexuality.

    Homosexual unbelievers are not going to any deeper hell than straight unbelievers. To the extent that we erroneously think actions keep an unbeliever out of heaven, we are susceptible to arguments that being good gets a person into heaven--and then we start putting actions on a balance scale.
     
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