Should Christians stop saying homosexuality is a sin if it increases suicide?

[creslaw]

That doesn't work and it's not the method Jesus modeled for us.

When we look at someone and see "sin" we think that's what we need to cudgel that person with. We see a prostitute on the street, and we run over and say, "You harlot! You need to repent of your whoring and come to Jesus!"

Notice the sequence: When we focus on the sin, the sequence is always to fix the sin first, then come to Jesus.

But Romans 6 tells us that fixing the sin is impossible before becoming a believer. Belief has to come first. Before that, the person is a slave to sin.

And we know that. We know that none of us had fully cleaned sin from our lives before we believed.

But when we assail the prostitute "You harlot!" the problem is that the sin we can see is the very sin that person has built the strongest bulwark of rationale to protect. That prostitute has constructed a thousand reasons why she must live that way, and rarely will that accusing Christian have an answer to them.

When Jesus approached the Samaritan woman at the well, He could have said at the outset, "You're a harlot." And she would have countered with the reasons why she lived as she did, and had no other choice.

Jesus didn't do that, though. We've probably all heard teaching about how the time and place the woman was drawing water indicated she was a social outcast--probably because of her sexual relationships. That was the point Jesus led with--the loneliness and ostricization that was exemplified by when and where she was forced by her sin.

“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” -- Matthew 11

Jesus led with, essentially, "I know your problem--I am the fix for your problem."

Jesus said this:

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them....
....
He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them."-- John 6

I don't know how many times I'd read that before its implication struck me. What this means is that God has already worked within every person who will accept the gospel. It's not our clever arguments or strident railing that does it.

People are walking around "enabled" to accept the gospel, and they don't even know it. I have met a number of people who had known they were missing something, and when they heard the gospel, they realized immediately, "That's it!"

We don't know who they are, either. We can't see it on them. But God has seen through their bulwarks of rationales and found what I call their "convicting sin"--and it won't usually be the sin we see from the outside.

They don't need to be told about their sin; that's what the Accuser does. Telling them they are sinners is not the gospel. It's the Holy Spirit's role to convict them of sin, not ours.

They need to be given the gospel: That's what Jesus does.

Those who have been enabled need nothing but the gospel.

You make excellent points on how to present the Gospel to individuals. However when it is on a public level, such as school policies or banning Christian therapy, it requires us to explain what we think and why.

 

[Hazelelponi]

That doesn't work and it's not the method Jesus modeled for us.

When we look at someone and see "sin" we think that's what we need to cudgel that person with. We see a prostitute on the street, and we run over and say, "You harlot! You need to repent of your whoring and come to Jesus!"

Notice the sequence: When we focus on the sin, the sequence is always to fix the sin first, then come to Jesus.

But Romans 6 tells us that fixing the sin is impossible before becoming a believer. Belief has to come first. Before that, the person is a slave to sin.

And we know that. We know that none of us had fully cleaned sin from our lives before we believed.

But when we assail the prostitute "You harlot!" the problem is that the sin we can see is the very sin that person has built the strongest bulwark of rationale to protect. That prostitute has constructed a thousand reasons why she must live that way, and rarely will that accusing Christian have an answer to them.

When Jesus approached the Samaritan woman at the well, He could have said at the outset, "You're a harlot." And she would have countered with the reasons why she lived as she did, and had no other choice.

Jesus didn't do that, though. We've probably all heard teaching about how the time and place the woman was drawing water indicated she was a social outcast--probably because of her sexual relationships. That was the point Jesus led with--the loneliness and ostricization that was exemplified by when and where she was forced by her sin.

“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” -- Matthew 11

Jesus led with, essentially, "I know your problem--I am the fix for your problem."

Jesus said this:

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them....
....
He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them."-- John 6

I don't know how many times I'd read that before its implication struck me. What this means is that God has already worked within every person who will accept the gospel. It's not our clever arguments or strident railing that does it.

People are walking around "enabled" to accept the gospel, and they don't even know it. I have met a number of people who had known they were missing something, and when they heard the gospel, they realized immediately, "That's it!"

We don't know who they are, either. We can't see it on them. But God has seen through their bulwarks of rationales and found what I call their "convicting sin"--and it won't usually be the sin we see from the outside.

They don't need to be told about their sin; that's what the Accuser does. Telling them they are sinners is not the gospel. It's the Holy Spirit's role to convict them of sin, not ours.

They need to be given the gospel: That's what Jesus does.

Those who have been enabled need nothing but the gospel.

Without sin there's no possible explanation for the need of a Savior.

Transgression of the law is sin. The law is our tutor showing us our inability and our need of salvation..

If you removed all mention of sin from the Bible no one would understand the Messiah... you wouldn't need a Messiah in the absence of sin.

As Jesus said, I have not come to save the righteous, but the sinner.

 

[RDKirk]

You make excellent points on how to present the Gospel to individuals. However when it is on a public level, such as school policies or banning Christian therapy, it requires us to explain what we think and why.

Critically examine whether school policies actually matter to our primary mission. American Christians are often fighting for the wrong hill.

 

[bèlla]

Perhaps the reason that homosexuality and abortion are so often mentioned by believers is that those engaging in those activities claim they are not sins at all while there are few that claim murder, theft, adultery etc. are actually not sins but natural and positive things to be celebrated.

You needn’t point the mirror outward. Turn it towards yourself. We are capable of rationalizing our actions and applying reason that supports our behavior.

If we sin in light of the knowledge and truth we confess, why are you surprised when others do the same who haven’t made the same profession?

In their mind the behavior is acceptable. You make a similar rationalization in yours too. While the result of that thought may not be homosexuality or abortion it is still sin nonetheless.

My viewpoint has been impacted by my faith. It colors the way I see and think. I don’t expect the same from unbelievers and to a large degree from other Christians.

Because my profession is impacted by my experiences and makeup. You can’t omit susceptibility and tolerance from the equation.

We are apt to judge behaviors we’re less susceptible to embracing than those we struggle with. That’s why the likelihood of hearing a sermon on these topics is greater than one on gluttony or greed.

You’ll have a larger number of people wrestling with those issues than the ones we’re discussing. They’re respectable sins.

You may enjoy Jerry Bridges’s thoughts on the subject.

 

[MayYouBeBlessed]

Jesus loves all people, He never judged sinners. He forgave the adulterous woman. He didn't cast stones. Christians must stop calling LGBQT sinners if it prevents even one suicide.

That soul could find Jesus and get saved, don't you understand? Instead of taking their own life...

Must love! Stop judging! Embrace sinners like Jesis did! Let's not be judging pharisees and scribes!

 

[Yennora]

Jesus loves all people, He never judged sinners. He forgave the adulterous woman. He didn't cast stones. Christians must stop calling LGBQT sinners if it prevents even one suicide.

That soul could find Jesus and get saved, don't you understand? Instead of taking their own life...

Must love! Stop judging! Embrace sinners like Jesis did! Let's not be judging pharisees and scribes!

That sums it all I believe. People need to draw the line between being a Pharisee and a human rights advocate. If by practicing their homosexuality they don't violate our freedom rights (or anyone's) then that's none of our business.

 

[RDKirk]

Without sin there's no possible explanation for the need of a Savior.

Transgression of the law is sin. The law is our tutor showing us our inability and our need of salvation..

If you removed all mention of sin from the Bible no one would understand the Messiah... you wouldn't need a Messiah in the absence of sin.

As Jesus said, I have not come to save the righteous, but the sinner.

Convicting them of sin is not our job. It's the Holy Spirit's job. And we can't do it better than the Holy Spirit, because we don't know what anyone's particular convicting sin is.

"Sin" in terms of individual actions means nothing to someone who is enslaved to it.

The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. -- Romans 8

If they have been enabled by the Father, all they need is the gospel.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Again, nowhere in this resolution does it say Christian counseling should be banned. In fact, it says the very opposite. Did anybody read the resolution?

Bill Text - ACR-99 Civil rights: lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender people.

The part where they mention suicide is directly speaking of the effects of forced conversion therapy on minors, not even conversion therapy on adults, and that those who counsel minors on issues related to homosexual matters should do so in a way that is attentive to their psychological safety.

The linked article in the OP was blatantly twisting what this resolution is really about in an attempt to wind people up... In kind of a really gross way, actually.

 

[Albion]

Convicting them of sin is not our job. It's the Holy Spirit's job.

It is the Church's job, however, and most of these laws, edicts, regulations, etc. aim to prevent the Church from doing its job.

"The resolution, ACR-99, Civil Rights: Lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender people, urges counselors, pastors, churches, educators, and others to avoid supporting the historic Christian view of sexual ethics. The measure says such support can result in "disproportionately high" rates of suicide, attempted suicide, and depression among persons who identify as LGBT."

 

[Hazelelponi]

Convicting them of sin is not our job. It's the Holy Spirit's job. And we can't do it better than the Holy Spirit, because we don't know what anyone's particular convicting sin is.

"Sin" in terms of individual actions means nothing to someone who is enslaved to it.

The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. -- Romans 8

We can't convict anyone of sin, but what your suggesting is that we hide the fact sin exists from the sinner that we are attempting to explain the Savior to..

I don't care if it's a straight man in a 3 piece suit or the harlot in the street, we have to explain sin to them, at some point. It's not a topic we can exactly avoid and think we are doing justice to the Word of God.

We can discuss the fact we too are sinners in need of a savior, we can talk about sin as gently as possible, but we can't just avoid the topic or hope they can figure it out without explanation..

 

[RDKirk]

It is the Church's job, however, and most of these laws aim to prevent the Church from doing its job.

No, it's not the Church's job, it's the Holy Spirit's job.

Those laws prevent the Church from using worldly weapons. But those aren't our weapons anyway.

 

[Josheb]

Should Christians stop saying homosexuality is a sin if it increases suicide?

No.

 

[Yennora]

we have to explain sin to them, at some point.

Only if they come to us and seek that. Other than that, let us worry about ourselves.

 

[RDKirk]

I domt care if it's a straight man in a 3 piece suit or the harlot in the street, we have to explain sin to them, at some point.

"At some point" is after they have accepted Jesus.

When did Jesus call out the sin of the Samaritan woman at the well? After she had accepted Him.

We have to get that sequence correct. Paul laid it out--the person who is still enslaved to sin cannot get himself out of it, nor will he even consider it wrong until after he has made Jesus his master.

And how many of us have been Christians for many years and are still uncovering and confessing our own sins?

As one of my pastors lamented to me, "Homosexuality is the one sin we require people to fix before we even let them through the door."

 

[Albion]

No, it's not the Church's job, it's the Holy Spirit's job.

I would be curious to know what you think the Church's job is, if not to preach the faith? Fellowship with coffee hour following?

 

[MayYouBeBlessed]

It is the Church's job, however, and most of these laws, edicts, regulations, etc. aim to prevent the Church from doing its job.

Jesus said, judging is not anybody's job. Put your stones down. Forgive. Love. Preach salvation in Jesus. All sin has been paid for by His blood on the Calvary cross.

 

[MayYouBeBlessed]

I would be curious to know what you think the Church's job is, if not to preach the faith? Fellowship with coffee hour following?

Preach the love of Jesus.

 

[Albion]

Jesus said, judging is not anybody's job.

Ah, but now you are talking about something different--judging.

 

[Albion]

Preach the love of Jesus.

But nothing he taught us about?

 

[Hazelelponi]

Only if they come to us and seek that. Other than that, let us worry about ourselves.

I've never noticed anyone pushing their worldview on others who don't want to hear it.

I was a Muslim raised in the U.S.. While people were polite there weren't a whole lot of people talking to me about faith at all..

You can go your entire life in this country without really having a clue what it is that Christianity is actually teaching, and so I'm not convinced that there is a lot of bashing of homosexuals in this country by Christians.

I was in the Bible belt and wasn't getting bashed by anyone for having a different faith..

And before I converted to Christianity - it was the issue of sin and a savior which made me question my own faith.. it wasn't because a bunch of people were hiding sin from me..

And now that I'm a Christian and Muslims will say I'm going straight to hell, I'm not in the least suicidal.. because I don't believe them, and I don't have mental health issues.