Hentenza said:

It is the obvious interpretation.

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If that's what you already believe.

Hentenza said:

It does not say that they are annihilated either.

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I never said it did. But this does:

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
No interpretation necessary there. Plain as can be.

Hentenza said:

The fire would not be eternal if the punishment was not eternal.

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Yep, sez so right there in your doctrine.

Hentenza said:

If annihilation was right then the fire would go off as soon as all were annihilated.

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No doubt to save fuel.

Tell ya what, you go with your interpretations and surmises, I'll go with what our Lord said.

Chesterton said:

You've made this claim before, and in post #61, I asked you to show me where your responses were. You ignored my request.

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Which I responded to in my next reply. Perhaps you should look again?

Chesterton said:

If that's happening they have recourse, and could walk away with a nice payday from a lawsuit, just as 1st Amendment auditors sometimes do.

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I'm not sure your point here. Are you claiming it is not an issue because there is a possible recourse?

eclipsenow said:

This is a science forum - but I'm happy to discuss the theology of this over in this thread I have just joined. Failed climate predictions from false prophets

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You're the one who was talking with another poster as to whether or not God cared about the climate, or environment, or our care of it, etc. But, don't worry, I'm done, ok. On to other things now, ok.

Take Care.

Bro.T said:

Jesus say in (Mat.7:21) “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven”. For students to succeed in school, students learn to follow their teachers' instructions, and learn their lessons carefully. But few apply this method when they are dealing with the word of God. Is Jesus your Lord? Then why don’t you do the things he says. (Luke 6:46) “And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say”? He told you plainly: (Ex 20:8-10) (v.8) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. (v.9) Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: (v.10) “But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God”.

Paul say in 2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. Now any Christian in their right mind wouldn’t dare say that it’s okay to steal, kill or commit adultery or break any of the other seven commandments. But when it comes to the fourth commandment, people avoid it like a plague! They are either uninformed about which day is the Sabbath day of the God of the Bible or they are just following the tradition of religion that was passed down through the family or maybe they have let some preacher give them other excuses for ignoring God’s true day of worship.

In (Gen.2:2-5) (v.2) And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. (v.3) And God blessed the seventh day (every seventh day of the week is a blessed and holy day) and sanctified it (it is a day that is separated (sanctified) for a purpose) because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. (v.5) “and there was not a man to till the ground.” There was not a Jew, Catholic, Baptist, or Seventh Day Adventist; in fact, there was not a Christian when He constituted the Sabbath Day!

If you really understood the scriptures you would realize that He was the one who became known as Jesus who gave you the Ten Commandments. So not only did He command you to cease from your work on that day He also commanded you to. (Lev.23:3) “Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of rest, an holy convocation;” He said on the Sabbath day that you should also have an holy convocation, which means holy gathering or simply put, go to church. Remember in Acts 7: 38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

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Let me ask you something since it seems that your church’s playbook seems to follow the same pattern, a bunch of OT verses and some NT verses cautioning folks of things that unbelievers do but directed at Christians posting here that disagree with your interpretation.

The question is, are professed Christians that worship in Sunday sinning? Is their salvation in jeopardy because they worship on Sunday?

God gives all sorts of tests in life. You can be bitter or youo can overcome. To me, race or mixing is of no concern. Sure there is discrimination but God is just and you will reap what you sown. honoring your parents is a concern. Your racial ideas seem to suggest you are unhappy and question their marriage choice. Obama was half Kenyan, and he did quite well for himself, so while it might take more work overcoming discrimination, it also can open more doors. I would see it as an opportunity to serve Christ and be employed in using the talent that you were given. In the end that is all that is going to matter for eternity.

So, part of walking with Jesus is discovering how to relate with people who do not know how to love.

"And I will very gladly spend and be spent for your souls; though the more abundantly I love you, the less I am loved." (2 Corinthians 12:15)

Also, by the way . . . my opinion is that certain ones can act as though they are promoting a certain translation, but they are part of Satan's strategy to give that translation a bad name.

So, we need to learn how to be wise to people. We have counterfeit Christians who are intended to give the real Christianity a bad name. So, sheep of Jesus need to learn how to handle this.

But have hope for evil people > love "hopes all things" (in 1 Corinthians 13:7). Do not allow unloving people to have power over us to decide what we do and how we see things. Make sure with God and His word, and have people who are good examples who help you.

Belk said:

My first post to you was to point out that people are feeling intimidated, whether that was the intent or not. Your response was to dismiss this and claim it was nothing but propaganda. I then pointed out your dismissal and have spent multiple posts having to explain it. I'll take your claims of "ample opportunity" for what they are worth.

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You've made this claim before, and in post #61, I asked you to show me where your responses were. You ignored my request.

Belk said:

I certainly feel intimidated by the idea of masked agents of the government violating the 4th amendment, yes.

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If that's happening they have recourse, and could walk away with a nice payday from a lawsuit, just as 1st Amendment auditors sometimes do.

Jesus say in (Mat.7:21) “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven”. For students to succeed in school, students learn to follow their teachers' instructions, and learn their lessons carefully. But few apply this method when they are dealing with the word of God. Is Jesus your Lord? Then why don’t you do the things he says. (Luke 6:46) “And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say”? He told you plainly: (Ex 20:8-10) (v.8) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. (v.9) Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: (v.10) “But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God”.

Paul say in 2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. Now any Christian in their right mind wouldn’t dare say that it’s okay to steal, kill or commit adultery or break any of the other seven commandments. But when it comes to the fourth commandment, people avoid it like a plague! They are either uninformed about which day is the Sabbath day of the God of the Bible or they are just following the tradition of religion that was passed down through the family or maybe they have let some preacher give them other excuses for ignoring God’s true day of worship.

In (Gen.2:2-5) (v.2) And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. (v.3) And God blessed the seventh day (every seventh day of the week is a blessed and holy day) and sanctified it (it is a day that is separated (sanctified) for a purpose) because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. (v.5) “and there was not a man to till the ground.” There was not a Jew, Catholic, Baptist, or Seventh Day Adventist; in fact, there was not a Christian when He constituted the Sabbath Day!

If you really understood the scriptures you would realize that He was the one who became known as Jesus who gave you the Ten Commandments. So not only did He command you to cease from your work on that day He also commanded you to. (Lev.23:3) “Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of rest, an holy convocation;” He said on the Sabbath day that you should also have an holy convocation, which means holy gathering or simply put, go to church. Remember in Acts 7: 38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

com7fy8 said:

If they are putting out what is not the kind of games you have had, before, then they are not putting out games that are for you . . . possibly.

If a toy gun company morphs into a firearms business . . . they are no longer making what is for children.

Oh, of course . . . those toys also might not have been right for children. And likewise possibly those earlier games might not have been really what is good. And in case they got you "hooked" . . . that's a concern. Some companies on purpose put out products that they hope will addict their customers.

But our Apostle Paul says >

"All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any." (1 Corinthians 6:12)

So, you might evaluate how you could move on to better than games, versus trying to get back to something.

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I meant buying new games, not returning to old ones. I'm struggling finding any new game to buy that isn't littered with problems.

Delvianna said:

But this is getting harder and harder to find games to play in my down time that are at least, neutral.

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If they are putting out what is not the kind of games you have had, before, then they are not putting out games that are for you . . . possibly.

If a toy gun company morphs into a firearms business . . . they are no longer making what is for children.

Oh, of course . . . those toys also might not have been right for children. And likewise possibly those earlier games might not have been really what is good. And in case they got you "hooked" . . . that's a concern. Some companies on purpose put out products that they hope will addict their customers.

But our Apostle Paul says >

"All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any." (1 Corinthians 6:12)

So, you might evaluate how you could move on to better than games, versus trying to get back to something.

camille70 said:

They have daily ballroom events?

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Ooooh, maybe I can lose my glass slipper and be discovered by someone!

Everything SabbathBlessings said. Scripture teaches us that the Holy Spirit interprets for us, so pray and ask for guidance. It's actually the 1 prayer you can have 100% trust in that God will answer because he doesn't want people to be led astray. There are a lot of verses that says "don't be deceived". Don't be afraid of getting it wrong on the first go-around, because God builds on understanding. If you don't understand something, just keep going. God will eventually guide you to understand it. From personal experience, sometimes it's taken me almost a year to understand a certain scripture or point, so don't expect instant answers or understanding either. Let the Lord guide as he will back up every thing he shows you. If you have an idea and a verse contradicts that idea, then you can be assured that idea is wrong but constantly stay open minded because God wants us to be able to be taught (stay teachable) which includes humility, which is accepting when you are wrong so that you will eventually reach truth.

Always check everything someone preaches because there's a lot of bad doctrine, false teachers and error driven sermons. Let God be the one to show you the truth and never stop looking for it.

Aldebaran said:

What's to negotiate? The Republicans all voted to keep the government open. Democrats all voted to NOT keep it open. Now people suffer because it's shut down.
When Republicans were in the minority, they were blamed for shutdowns. Now it's dems in the minority, and Republicans still get blamed for the shutdown. Should Republicans negotiate with the MSM to stop the bias in their reporting? Or should they negotiate with the dems to stop relying on MSM bias and using government workers as bargaining chips, and holding the American economy hostage?

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Once could fix the shutdown in one day by stating that all USA debt would be defaulted on if the debt ceiling was not raised.
But more precisely to your comment. I suspect there is bias in the MSM. However, every shutdown has a different set of issues so blame is not just about minorty/majority, it is about why they refuse to bump up the ceiling. I favor Rand Paul, true conservative position, that the deficits are out of control and unless more is done I would vote against raising the ceiling. Though unpopular at the time, Rep. Ron Paul vogted against the Iraq war. Funny he was right, just as I believe his son is on the budget. It is too bad that more principled Republicans are so critically missing in these loose times.

Tuur said:

Here's our disagreement: I say there's no real equilibrium. Even if there were no humans on the planet, CO2 would fluctuate; it has in the past.

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If you are talking DEEP past - the earth was a lot hotter then and had far more volcanoes spewing CO2 out all the time. In fact - these volcanoes may have saved life on earth from the Snowball Earth by poking through the planet wide ice sheets and spewing greenhouse gases into the atmosphere - eventually cooking the place. The storms that resulted had such severe acid rain from all that CO2 that it melted rock!

Tuur said:

It's all constantly varying, and not just CO2.

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Yes - and they know why. There are many climate forcings, from BIG SLOW ones to smaller short ones.

EG: There's the "long" carbon cycle - with CO2 being trapped by algae life in the bottom of the ocean for millions of years, then getting caught up in a magma flow and being spewed back out a volcano. This has gradually shrunk with the slow cooling of the planet over tens of millions of years - as a general trend.

But sometimes rare volcanic events can spew more CO2 than normal - and cook the place up again.
This is not happening today, and volcanoes are about 1% of our emissions.

Tuur said:

There's fluctuations in output from the sun, not terribly great but the sun is very big and the earth is very small.

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All measured and understood by the IPCC. IF you bothered to read their reports!

Tuur said:

At the moment discounting variations from axis wobble and when aphelion and perihelion occurs in respect to the seasons because, while these are variations, they are over long spans of time.

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Milankovitch cycles help the earth COOL from where we are - not COOK into a hothouse earth!
Also - about 40% of the depths of the coolest phase of an ice age are from CO2 sources getting trapped by encroaching ice sheets!

Even with something as enormous as the wobble of our planet on it's merry way around the sun, changing the angles sunlight hits the earth, CO2 has a role!

Tuur said:

Also discounting the predicted brightening of the sun, since that's longer term than variations due to the earth's orbit.

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Yes! Agreed! So we have to be MORE careful than the dinosaurs about how much CO2 is in the air.

The sun is 2% warmer than back then! That's another long term forcing!
So is the position of the continents on the planet.

But these are such long term things that we will not notice them.

We've nearly doubled CO2 in the geological blink of an eye!

Tuur said:

If I wanted to be extra persnickety, I'd throw in the effects of continental drift.

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Ah, good. Yes. But as if we're not going to adapt to that in time, hey? We replace a good portion of our cities every 60 years. Continental drift is in the 10's of millions of years!

Tuur said:

But even without long them effects, it's not fixed. It just seems that way to us because we're relatively short lived.

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Right - so how do the IPCC study the natural forcings and conclude CO2 is what's cooking us, hmmmmmmm?

Tuur said:

What you term equilibrium I think of as a sort of inertia based on the time it takes for change. We know that CO2 can be naturally removed because it's happened before. It takes time, but it happened. "Tipping point" is a loaded term.

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No - it's a scientifically valid concept explained in layman's terms.

Basically, climate activists are saying "It REALLY looks like there's an ice-berg ahead" to the Captain of the Titanic. It hasn't hit yet - and even if it does - there are still the lifeboats. But I'd rather save this beautiful ship!

Tuur said:

Even if AGW turns out to be real, it's not permanently changing the thermostat settings. "Tipping point" implies otherwise.

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Watch Johan!

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If you're saying "Permanently" in terms of the entire planetary life of the earth - so what? On that timescale, of course climate is not 'fixed'. Eventually the CO2 might get sucked back up, the surface of the earth might finally be repopulated with plant life - and ice ages might eventually return. But that's a LONG time away from a human civilisation point of view!

Barring the Lord's return - the sun would eventually expand and burn the earth! But that's not what we are talking about!

We are talking about the optimal way to keep both human civilisation and the biosphere intact, the way we like it, now.
People and planet.

Watch Johan.

Border Patrol Chief Gregory Bovino accused of violating restraining order by throwing tear gas in Little Village



Greg Bovino Immediately Flouts Chicago Court Order, Lawyers Say

JM said:

Your reminded me of this old joke.

A fellow was stuck on his rooftop in a flood. He was praying to God for help.

Soon a man in a rowboat came by and the fellow shouted to the man on the roof, “Jump in, I can save you.”

The stranded fellow shouted back, “No, it’s OK, I’m praying to God and he is going to save me.”

So the rowboat went on.

Then a motorboat came by. “The fellow in the motorboat shouted, “Jump in, I can save you.”

To this the stranded man said, “No thanks, I’m praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith.”

So the motorboat went on.

Then a helicopter came by and the pilot shouted down, “Grab this rope and I will lift you to safety.”

To this the stranded man again replied, “No thanks, I’m praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith.”

So the helicopter reluctantly flew away.

Soon the water rose above the rooftop and the man drowned. He went to Heaven. He finally got his chance to discuss this whole situation with God, at which point he exclaimed, “I had faith in you but you didn’t save me, you let me drown. I don’t understand why!”

To this God replied, “I sent you a rowboat and a motorboat and a helicopter, what more did you expect?”

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I have used that one often, except it was a boat all three times.
It is good to have faith. But you have to know how God is going to answer your faith. If you are upstream from a dam that is about to burst, what do you do with your family? Do you sit there chanting that God will save you, or do you cram your wife and kids into the car and head uphill for grandma's house? I love faith, but you have to be wise also. God told Noah the flood was coming. He did not just sit down and wait for God to save him. It says he believed God and FEARED, as so built the ark to the saving of his family.
Do what God tells you. But don't just assume doing nothing is the answer. I have found that it rarely is the answer.

BCP1928 said:

They have rejected the NIcene Creed as a basic statement of the Christian faith yet use the name of Christ to advance a Christian nationalist political agenda.

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Obviously I disagree but filth seems like too strong a word.

BCP1928 said:

I don't want to be seen as speaking for my faith group, with which I sometimes disagree.

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Fair enough I guess.

BCP1928 said:

If you really want to know, here is a plain clue in my screen name.

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Ha, I should have caught that.

You seem to be struggling with the apologist's gap. I overcome it in two ways, first I compare what must be true about God in order for Him to even be possibly real with what Scripture says about God. In order to accomplish this, I examine the premises of the ontological argument and ask, what about God is it that makes the ontological argument forceful? Which, in my estimation is the fact that God is the one truth that is so blazingly obvious that the only way to deny His existence is for it you to fail to even begin to grasp the concept. God is the one true axiom. The question is, is that expressed anywhere in religious texts? I'm not sure if it occurs anywhere else, but there are two distinct aspects of the Bible that express this. The first is Exodus 3:14, where God refers to HImself as what can be roughly translated as "I exist because I exist" or perhaps more accurately "I will continue existing because I will continue existing". This allows me to accept the Bible as at least one possibility to find more information about God, so the question is then narrowed down to whether the Jews are right and Jesus was a false prophet or if the Christians are right and Jesus is God incarnate. What settles this for me is that I find all non-miraculous explanations of the resurrection to not be as good as accepting the resurrection was a true event, and as a consequence I trust Jesus. Though that conversation requires much more in depth discussion. As for who among the Christians is right in their doctrine, for that I just use critical thinking skills and come to my own conclusions to the best I can and hope that my sincerity is enough, recognizing that I will inevitably not understand things or come to wrong conclusions and need to adjust them in light of new information. Hope that helps.

Clare73 said:

But the Bible does say that we are by nature, objects of wrath (Eph 2:3), born with the sin of Adam charged/imputed to us (Ro 5:17, 18-19).

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Well . . . how did the sin move from Adam to other humans? I consider "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience" spread.

I would say that because Adam and Eve were God's "very good" creation, they good of their own selves would not have started what is evil. It took work.

Vambram said:

They are not doing it illegally.

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People who shoot others illegally are not doing it illegally?

Neogaia777 said:

Revelation 11:18

God talks about what could be maybe some environmental consequences after that maybe.

Do I know for sure that this is what God means in this passage? No, I don't, but it is interesting however.

Put to ruin those ruining or destroying the earth, etc.

Unleashing the four corners of the earth, and certain what could be environmental consequences maybe, could mean this, or be a result of this also maybe? But I don't know that for sure however, etc.

God Bless.

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This is a science forum - but I'm happy to discuss the theology of this over in this thread I have just joined. Failed climate predictions from false prophets