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A2SG · 2025-11-04T02:36:57-0600

Oompa Loompa said:
Sure. Otherwise, why else should they get an actual job to feed their families? It would be in everyone's best interest if they actually wanted to divorce themselves from the government and actually try to sustain themselves.

Do you just assume everyone on SNAP is unemployed?

-- A2SG, you do know what happens when you assume, right?

Apple Sky · 2025-11-04T02:36:00-0600

Strong in Him said:
Why did you start talking about Dover, then?

Because of what David said. he said;

If the earth were as flat as a pancake, I should, on a clear day, be able easily to see France from my living room window. The fact that I cannot see France, even with binoculars, fits with the earth being a sphere.

Apple Sky · 2025-11-04T02:33:58-0600

David Lamb said:
Perspective makes things look smaller the further away from the observer they are.

Yes until they disappear.

David Lamb said:
To those of us who realise that the earth is a globe, the horizon is as far as we can see before the curvature of the earth prevents us seeing any further.

Wrong - It is due to our prospective when looking over land & it is due to the horizon when we look out to sea, apparently they say that our eyes can only see 3 miles away but this isn't the case when we view Dover too France.

David Lamb · 2025-11-04T02:17:20-0600

Apple Sky said:
Our prospective, our eyes can only see so far due to the horizon.

But if the earth is flat as you insist, why is there a horizon at all? To those of us who realise that the earth is a globe, the horizon is as far as we can see before the curvature of the earth prevents us seeing any further.

David Lamb · 2025-11-04T02:15:25-0600

Apple Sky said:
I know what he said .

No your wrong it is due to our prospective.

They say while standing on a flat surface with eyes about 5 feet from the ground, people can typically see 3 miles away due to the curve of the earth. But we see more than this from Dover too France.

Perspective makes things look smaller the further away from the observer they are. But when ships, or the sun, disappear beyond the horizon, they don't just get smaller and smaller until they are too small to see. The ship, and the sun, disappear gradually. Halfway through a sunset, for instance, we see half of the sun. We spent ages discussing the matter, and you eventually agreed that the sun does not get smaller and smaller at sunset until we can't see it.

Yes the horizon is about 3 miles away for an observer at sea level, which is why one cannot see France from the beach at Dover. The White Cliffs of Dover are about 100 metres high, and that means the the horizon for a person standing on the cliffs is about 22 miles away.

Strong in Him · 2025-11-04T02:14:28-0600

Apple Sky said:
I know what he said .

Why did you start talking about Dover, then? It was irrelevant.

Apple Sky · 2025-11-04T02:11:57-0600

David Lamb said:
What reason, if the earth is flat?

Our prospective, our eyes can only see so far due to the horizon.

David Lamb · 2025-11-04T02:05:10-0600

Apple Sky said:
For the same reason you can't see New York.

What reason, if the earth is flat?

Apple Sky · 2025-11-04T02:04:27-0600

Strong in Him said:
He didn't say "from Dover", he said "from his house".

I know what he said .

Strong in Him said:
Because of the curvature of the earth.

No your wrong it is due to our prospective.

They say while standing on a flat surface with eyes about 5 feet from the ground, people can typically see 3 miles away due to the curve of the earth. But we see more than this from Dover too France.

Strong in Him · 2025-11-04T01:47:39-0600

Apple Sky said:
For the same reason you can't see New York.

Because of the curvature of the earth.

Strong in Him · 2025-11-04T01:47:09-0600

Apple Sky said:
From Dover you can see France

He didn't say "from Dover", he said "from his house".

Apple Sky · 2025-11-04T01:46:48-0600

David Lamb said:
Yes, on a clear day you can see France from Dover, but you still haven't explained why, if the earth is flat, I can't see France from the South Devon coast.

For the same reason you can't see New York.

Strong in Him · 2025-11-04T01:43:35-0600

keras said:
They have no clue about what must happen, which is an indictment against them for rejecting scripture.

I spent a considerable amount of time quoting Zechariah 5, looking up various words and explaining what was happening, because you wanted a "plausible explanation" for it.
You haven't even addressed my comments. You haven't said why you were teaching that the flying scroll was covered in lead, when in fact it was the basket which had a lid made of lead. You haven't explained the writing on both sides of the scroll, the woman inside the basket or the "wickedness" that the angel spoke of.
You have not said either, "that's a good explanation, I will consider it. Thank you for your attention to the matter", nor "I think I may have jumped to conclusions about the scroll and the basket, I will look at it again."

It seems to me that you read my post, realized you have been wrong about Zec 5, are far to embarrassed/proud to say so and are trying to change the subject by quoting only the bits of my post that do not relate to that chapter.
So don't talk about other people rejecting Scripture.

Christsfreeservant · 2025-11-04T01:41:34-0600

“Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness in our speech, and are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not look intently at the end of what was fading away. But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.” (2 Corinthians 3:12-18 NASB1995)

People tell lies. Husbands lie to their wives. Wives lie to their husbands. Parents lie to their children, and children lie to their parents. Bosses lie to their employees, and employees lie to their bosses. Pastors lie to their congregations, and the congregants lie to their pastors. And government heads lie to their citizens and the citizens pass along the lies from their government heads to the other citizens. And not everyone lies, but it seems today that lying has become epidemic in our culture, and considered normal.

Those today with hardhearted hearts and minds, who refuse to bow in submission to the Lord in humble surrender of their lives over to the Lord, and who hold on to their sinful addictions, and who will not let go of them, are like the majority of the Israelites who wandered in the wilderness who God then put to death. For God gave them many instructions, and many warnings, and many opportunities to repent and to obey him, but they refused, and they continued to keep on in their sin despite God’s word.

Not only do they hold on to their sin and they refuse to repent of their sins, but then some of them lie about it, and they pretend that they have repented and that they are now walking in freedom from their sinful addictions. For, because of their pride, they don’t want to admit that they keep sinning. And because of their pride they also do not want to let go of their sin. So they continue to be malicious, morally unclean, deceivers, liars, manipulators, and opportunists who fake their Christianity and repentance.

And liars exist in all walks of life, but the ones with the most power and with the most influence are the most dangerous, because they have the most power and control over the people. And many people are believing and following after and repeating their lies. And I see preachers, the media, and government heads as the ones with the most power of persuasion over the people. And so many of them are arrogant and have a false sense of security that they are untouchable, and that no one can stop them from their crimes.

Don’t put your trust in pastors to tell you the truth. Don’t put your trust in the news media to tell you the truth, either. And don’t put your trust in the government, thinking that they are telling you the truth. And definitely don’t trust in political parties or church denominations to feed you the truth and not the lies. Be people of God, if you believe in Jesus, who get your truth from the Scriptures. And make sure that you read them in their full context so that you get the truth and don’t believe the popular lies being spread.

So, what is the solution for hardened hearts and lying tongues and people given over to evil and to wickedness in rebellion against the Lord? The only solution is the way of the cross of Christ. By faith in Jesus Christ we are crucified with Christ in death to sin, and raised with Christ to walk in newness of life in him, no longer to live as slaves to sin but as servants of righteousness, as we submit to the Lordship of Christ and we choose to obey his commands, by his grace, and in his power, and not of human flesh.

And when we turn to the Lord in true repentance, and we die to sin, and we now choose to obey him and his commands, in submission to him as Lord, in his power, then the Lord transforms us to his likeness. And the liberty we have in Christ Jesus is not liberty to keep on in addictive sin, but it is freedom from addiction to sin so that we can now walk in obedience to our Lord and to his commands, and now serve him with our lives, in his power. Only through submission to Jesus as Lord can any of us be free from sin.

[Matthew 7:13-14,21-23; Luke 9:23-26; John 10:27-30; Acts 26:18; Romans 1:18-32; Romans 2:5-10; Romans 3:23; Romans 6:1-23; Romans 8:1-14; 1 Corinthians 10:1-22; Galatians 5:16-24; Ephesians 2:8-10; Ephesians 4:17-32; Ephesians 5:3-6; Titus 2:11-14; Hebrews 3:1-19; Hebrews 4:1-13; Hebrews 10:19-39; Hebrews 12:1-2; 1 Peter 2:24; 1 John 1:1-10; 1 John 2:3-6; 1 John 3:4-10; Revelation 2:1-29; Revelation 3:1-22]

For Our Nation

An Original Work / September 11, 2012
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love
Recording Via Gerry Peters, music producer and arranger

Bombs are bursting. Night is falling.
Jesus Christ is gently calling
You to follow Him in all ways.
Trust Him with your life today.
Make Him your Lord and your Savior.
Turn from your sin. Follow Jesus.
He will forgive you of your sin;
Cleanse your heart, made new within.

Men betraying: Our trust fraying.
On our knees to God we’re praying,
Seeking God to give us answers
That are only found in Him.
God is sovereign over all things.
Nothing from His mind escaping.
He has all things under His command,
And will work all for good.

Jesus Christ is gently calling
You to follow Him in all ways.

Men deceiving: We’re believing
In our Lord, and interceding
For our nation and its people
To obey their God today.
He is our hope for our future.
For our wounds He offers suture.
He is all we need for this life.
Trust Him with your life today.

Login to view embedded media
Their Minds are Hardened
An Original Work / November 4, 2025
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love

David Lamb · 2025-11-04T01:41:15-0600

Apple Sky said:
From Dover you can see France & you can see it all, from the bottom up. France is about 21 miles and if the curvature is 8" per mile the drop should 14 feet & it's not.

Yes, on a clear day you can see France from Dover, but you still haven't explained why, if the earth is flat, I can't see France from the South Devon coast. If the earth were flat, the surface would have no curvature, would it, so I should be able to see France on a clear day. The fact that I can't, even with binoculars, is clear evidence that the earth is a globe, and not a flat disc.

Oompa Loompa · 2025-11-04T01:39:48-0600

A2SG said:
Maybe do a little song and dance too, just to prove their worthiness.

-- A2SG, boy the way Glenn Miller played.....

Sure. Otherwise, why else should they get an actual job to feed their families? It would be in everyone's best interest if they actually wanted to divorce themselves from the government and actually try to sustain themselves.

Apple Sky · 2025-11-04T01:36:16-0600

David Lamb said:
If the earth were as flat as a pancake, I should, on a clear day, be able easily to see France from my living room window. The fact that I cannot see France, even with binoculars, fits with the earth being a sphere.

From Dover you can see France & you can see it all, from the bottom up. France is about 21 miles and if the curvature is 8" per mile the drop should 14 feet & it's not.

Oompa Loompa · 2025-11-04T01:35:08-0600

FreeinChrist said:
The 60 minutes interview was one of confabulation or lies, or evidence of cognitive decline. He denies knowing anything about the pardon of Changpeng Zhao, the billionaire owner of Binance which means he was either lying, or confused, or he is letting other people sign his name (autopen) who are doing things without his knowledge.

But there is more. Here is some fact checking:

Factchecking Trump on '60 Minutes'

Mehdi debunks the president's lies, unpacks the failure of our mainstream media, and has the latest from Gaza, as well as Trump's 'Great Gatsby'-esque Halloween party.

zeteo.com

Here’s what I did manage to catch, in terms of brazen lies, all of which were left unrebutted, uncorrected, unchallenged, by O’Donnell:

“We had nine wars on our planet. I solved eight of ‘em.” I have debunked this nonsensical claim before.

“We have no inflation.” Inflation is at 3%.

“It’s at 2%. It’s-- it’s the perfect inflation.” Inflation is at 3%.

“Right now [grocery prices are] going down.” Grocery prices are up 1.4% since Trump came to office.

“A year ago, we were a dead country.” Not only did the US have the fastest-growing economy in the G7 in both 2023 and 2024, but the Economist magazine called it “the envy of the world.”

“11,888 murderers were let into our country.” Not only is this number inaccurate, but many of the non-citizens convicted of homicide either here or abroad came in during Trump’s first term.

“Washington, DC, was… almost like a crime capital of the world.” In 2023, per PolitiFact, “at least 49 other cities in the world had higher homicide rates.

“[Biden] hardly went anywhere. Guy couldn’t leave his bedroom.” Not only did Joe Biden visit roughly as many countries in his term of office as Trump did in his first term, but Biden was the first US president to visit an active warzone – Ukraine – not under the control of US forces.

“I made Middle East peace. For 3,000 years, they couldn’t do it.” There is no peace in Palestine, no peace deal in place, and it isn’t a 3,000-year-old conflict.

“Communist, not socialist. Communist. He’s far worse than a socialist.” Zohran Mamdani is not a communist.

“I can’t give them $1.5 trillion so that they can give welfare to people that came into our country illegally.” The Trump/GOP claim that Democrats want to give free healthcare to undocumented immigrants has been repeatedly debunked.

“They emptied their mental institutions and their insane asylums-- into the United States of America.” Asylum seekers don’t come from “insane asylums.” Obviously.

The interview was edited far more than the interview with Kamala Harris, and he lied about the edits that were made.
But apparently, he's special.

I am not even going to watch the interview because I already know it was cut and edited to make Trump look just as bad as they did, trying to prop Kamala Harris up to make her look good.

Warden_of_the_Storm · 2025-11-04T01:20:18-0600

Simplest way to fix this without relying on analogy: find the supposed advanced tech that is claimed to have been used.

Simple as.

Lukaris · 2025-11-04T01:19:42-0600

I believe Jews recognize that there is a universal law that was given to Noah. It is said to be implicit in Genesis 9:1-17 and some even agree that Jesus and Paul were preaching a universal moral law for the Gentiles ( matched with Matthew 9:16-19, Romans 13:8-10! etc.). There is overlap with the 10 commandments obviously here ( Deuteronomy 5:11-21, Exodus 20:1-17).

The concept of the universal law given to Noah:

Seven Laws of Noah - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The view of 17th c. Jewish theologian, Jacob Emden:

https://eweb.furman.edu/~ateipen/ReligionA45/Emden.html

Views like those of Emden claim that Jesus and Paul were not evangelizing the Jews but were preaching a compatible but distinct moral law given to Noah to the Gentiles. Of course, I disagree in that the Gospel was preached to everyone ( Romans 1:16-17 etc.).

Nonetheless, I do believe Emden’s attitude was clearly an example of the golden rule ( Matthew 7:1-12, especially Matthew 7:12) which the Lord says is the law and prophets. I also believe St. Paul is mentioning this in Romans 3:21-25 as what is necessary for us as sinners to realize & do when receiving the Gospel and to preach it.

I believe Emden’s view fails to see the evangelical basis of the Gospel but rightly, inadvertently or not, convicts antisemitism. Emden has the right view of the law & prophets ( the golden rule) but lacks the Gospel. On the other hand, the golden rule has often been neglected when the Gospel was preached to nonbelievers.

Probably it can be argued that the Jews preserved the moral law when the 10 commandments were given to Moses. The moral law didn’t disappear among the Gentiles at various individual levels ( Romans 2:1-16) but St. Paul previously noted that on the larger social level, it was a shambles ( Romans 1:18-25).

Bradskii · 2025-11-04T01:12:50-0600

Fervent said:
Not at all, you're just operating on a false premise that the only ethical structure that can be absolute is deontological ethics.

Yet again, I don't care what 'ethical structure' you use or you think is valid. I just want you to answer the question. I know why you won't and you know that I know. It's why I keep asking it.

Bradskii · 2025-11-04T01:08:06-0600

Fervent said:
You're clearly leaving out a major element in my view. I don't pretend that I know right from wrong...

But you claim to. If you are asked a question on a simple moral matter then you don't shrug your shoulders and say that you really don't know right from wrong. You have an opinion. However it is generated. You declare a position, however it is come by. You look at the circumstances and make a decision that it seems wrong to you or right. Or that it is most definutely wrong or right. Whatever means you used to reach that position.

Everyone does this. And everyone can tell you on what basis they reach their conclusion. Saying that you 'don't pretend to know right from wrong' after declaiming that everyone else is doing it wrong is a cop out. You've just said the equivalent of 'You're doing it wrong but I don't know how to do it myself'.

Fervent said:
And you continue to push the error of deontological ethics despite me pointing out that it is an error at least 4 times in direct reference to your question, and multiple times previously. It's not that I think there are exemptions to otherwise fixed rules, but that the whole idea that ethics is a "rule" based system is off base.

That is completely irrelevant to you answering the question. So you're saying that there are no hard and fast rules - which won't come as a surprise because it'swhat I've been trying to tell you for a very long time. That does not mean that moral questions are unanswerable. The ones I'm asking aren't. They are blazingly simple. Except that to answer them it shows that it's YOU making the decision. And for some bizarre reason you don't want to do that.

Fervent said:
Again, your question isn't really relevant to the ethical structure I use and believe to be the structure found in the Bible. You're tilting at a windmill that doesn't exist.

Again, I don't care what 'ethical structure' you use. Whatever it is, I want you to give me what you think is the right answer.

Apple Sky · 2025-11-04T01:07:07-0600

Wasn't that their gambling table ?

David Lamb · 2025-11-04T01:06:47-0600

Apple Sky said:
Even so, it's all flat as a pancake, is it not ?

If the earth were as flat as a pancake, I should, on a clear day, be able easily to see France from my living room window. The fact that I cannot see France, even with binoculars, fits with the earth being a sphere.

Apple Sky · 2025-11-04T00:49:29-0600

prodromos said:
What nonsense. He claims he can see three times beyond where the horizon should be from 15000' above Santa Barbara, yet it is clear that he can't see anything beyond Mt San Jacinto which matches the globe prediction. Gotta lie to flerf.

He claims to identify certain landmarks but there is no way to verify if they are what he claims, nor does he provide any topographical reference for the mountain ranges. He simply claims he can see into Colorado but can't actually give any landmarks in Colorado to confirm his claims. It's all just his subjective opinion.

Even so, it's all flat as a pancake, is it not ?

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