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BNR32FAN · 2025-10-25T13:45:28-0500

Valletta said:
We are saved through the sacrament of Baptism.

Justin Martyr: “As many as are persuaded and believe that what we [Christians] teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly . . . are brought by us where there is water, and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, ‘Except you be born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:3]” (First Apology 61 [A.D. 151]).

Repentance often precedes baptism which is a sign of regeneration before deciding to be baptized. I would also say that there are many people who have been water baptized who are not followers of Christ.

FreeinChrist · 2025-10-25T13:45:19-0500

Desk trauma said:
Nothing to get in a twist over, that better cheaper thing that’s going to replace the ACA is due any two weeks from now.

That 'two weeks' thing never seems to happen.

Chesterton · 2025-10-25T13:44:52-0500

Larniavc said:
That’s an impression I find really to marry to reality over here.

I’ve never felt any inclination to engage in hate speech or threaten murder so I’ve never felt the impact of our (UK) laws about what can and cannot be said in public.

What are your feelings on hot dogs?

Larniavc said:
I’ve even been an ‘agent of the state’ (in a way) when I’ve had to advise my patients that certain things they say void confidentiality and will be passed on the relevant authorities.

Is that something you're forced by law to do, or are you just being a faithful comrade?

christianlloydteegardin · 2025-10-25T13:43:48-0500

linux.poet said:
I think you may be looking for the Church History subforum, or Visual Arts. The latter forum would be appropriate for discussion of works of art in historical church buildings and posting pictures.

If you’re talking about how churches are organized, I know that Presbyterian and Congregational structures of church government exist, but think there might be a third form that I’ve forgotten about.

Episcopal.

Benaiah468 · 2025-10-25T13:43:38-0500

Two years after the start of the Gaza War, what many military officials have suspected for months is coming to light: the underground war is far from over. Defence Minister Israel Katz told US Vice President J.D. Vance at a meeting that over 60 per cent of Hamas' tunnel systems have not yet been destroyed. This figure is shocking, not only militarily, but also symbolically. It reveals how deeply rooted the enemy is, literally beneath Israel's feet.

The remaining tunnels extend on both sides of the so-called ‘yellow line’, including in areas that are now under Israeli control. Katz described their destruction as ‘a key joint task in the demilitarisation of Gaza under the Trump plan.’ The Israeli army is working ‘around the clock’ to locate and blow up these networks, even now, during the current ceasefire.

The explosions that residents have been hearing around the border area in recent days are not the result of attacks, but of systematic demolition work. They are the echoes of a war that continues underground. For the tunnels are more than just concrete tubes, they are the backbone of Hamas, its lifelines for weapons, supplies, fighters and hostages.

The fact that over 60 per cent of them have survived means that the threat remains very real. Last week, terrorists emerged from one of these tunnel connections and killed two Israeli soldiers, Itay Ya'abetz and Yaniv Kula, near Rafah. It was a reminder that this war is not a closed chapter, but an ongoing struggle for control and security.

The Israeli leadership sees the destruction of the tunnels as a crucial step towards securing the conditions of the ceasefire in the long term.

But this goal remains difficult to achieve. Over many years, Hamas had built an underground empire, a network of tunnels, workshops and bunkers stretching from Rafah to Beit Hanun. Many of these facilities are located deep underground, reinforced multiple times and equipped with electricity,

Added to this is the unresolved problem of smuggling routes between Egypt and the Gaza Strip. Despite Israel's refusal to withdraw from the Philadelphi Corridor, experts warn that mere control of the border strip is not enough to stop underground supplies. As long as Hamas is able to smuggle in building materials, explosives and weapons underground, its military infrastructure remains capable of regeneration.

Israel's task is to disarm this invisible empire piece by piece, not only with explosives, but with strategic consistency. For every tunnel that is not destroyed is an open wound in the body of the country.

Freth · 2025-10-25T13:43:32-0500

I eat mostly vegetarian on a small grocery budget. Here are some of the things I make on a regular basis.

Tortilla wraps with your favorite ingredient combinations:

Beans, leafy greens, onion, sauce
Baked beans, potato salad
Eggs, cheese, onion, green pepper, mushroom
Tomato sauce, cheese, onion, mushroom, green pepper, olives (bake 7 minutes at 400 in oven as flat pizzas or rolled up and held with a toothpick)

Soups:

Quick chili: tomato sauce, beans, onion, spices, veggie burger, broth/bouillon (if desired)
- I have also used sweet potato in chili with good results. I saw canned pumpkin in one recipe that I want to try.
Bean soup: dry beans, smoked paprika/liquid smoke, spices, onion, broth/bouillon
- I also add potatoes and cabbage sometimes.
Veggie soup: tomato juice/tomatoes, cabbage, onion, carrots, celery, corn, broth/bouillon
Potato soup: milk, butter, potato, onion or leaks, seasonings, broth/bouillon
Lentil soup: dry lentils or canned, any ingredients you love in soup, broth/bouillon
Taco soup: anything and everything taco (except lettuce), taco seasoning mix, broth/bouillon
Beans and rice: beans, rice, onion, seasoning mix, broth/bouillon

Casseroles:

Cottage Cheese Loaf

1 quart cottage cheese (32 ounces; 1 and 1/3 24 oz containers)

1 cup chopped pecans or walnuts

5 eggs, beaten

1/4 cup butter, melted

1 large onion, chopped

3 bouillon cubes

or tsp chicken style seasoning in 1 cup hot water

or 1 package onion soup mix

Bake in greased casserole for 1 hour at 350.

Supreme Lentil Loaf

1 cup uncooked lentils

2 eggs, beaten

1 can evaporated milk

1 onion, chopped

1/2 tsp sage

1/2 tsp salt

1/2 cup nuts, chopped

1/2 cup oil

1 1/2 cup bread crumbs

Cook lentils until soft and use 2 1/2 cups. Mix ingredients together and pour in an oiled casserole. Bake 45 minutes at 350.

Enchilada Casserole (the quick version)

Note that these ingredients are approximate.

1lb veggie burger or ground beef

1 large onion, chopped

taco seasoning

2 tbsp oil

Brown burger and onion in oil, season with taco seasoning. Set aside.

1 10pc package of corn tortillas

2 cans red enchilada sauce

2 cans kidney beans

2 cans green chilis

1-2 8 oz shredded cheese

In a crock pot, layer as follows: a thin layer of enchilada sauce, corn tortillas, burger mixture (I prefer to layer my onion in here instead of frying it with the burger), green chilis, kidney beans, shredded cheese. Repeat the order until you reach the top of the crock pot. Cook until you consider it to be done. I don't think I ever timed mine. 2-4 hours on high, I think it was.

If you choose to bake in a pan, the layering is the same. Bake at 375 for 25 minutes.

Note that this is a recipe I threw together, based on a much more lengthy recipe that had you making your own enchilada sauce. Since making enchilada sauce from scratch is labor intensive, I decided to make this instead. There isn't much of a difference. The homemade sauce might have more depth of flavor, but it's close enough for me.

Oatmeal Mushroom Steaks

Steaks

1 onion, chopped

3 tbsp butter

3 eggs, beaten

1 4 oz can mushrooms

2 1/4 cups uncooked oatmeal

1/2 cup evaporated milk

1 tsp seasoned salt

1/2 tsp thyme

1/2 tsp paprika

1/2 tsp sage

Saute onions in butter until clear. Combine all ingredients. Mix well and let stand in a bowl for 45 minutes. Mold into patties and fry until brown. (Note, these are great alone as burger substitutes.)

Mushroom Gravy

1 can mushroom soup

2 cans hot water

(optional) 1 tsp Vegex (or marmite/vegemite) dissolved in 1/2 cup of water

Combine soup, water and Vegex, ensure mixed well. Arrange steaks in a baking dish and cover with gravy. Bake at 350 for about an hour.

Patties/Burgers:

Wheat Germ Oatmeal Burgers

Onion

1 medium onion, chopped

2 tbsp oil

Saute onion in oil.

Burgers

1 1/2 cups dry oatmeal

1 cup wheat germ

1 tsp salt

2 tbsp soy sauce

1/2 tsp sage

1/2 tsp garlic salt

1/2 cup chopped nuts

13 oz can evaporated milk

Mix the onion and burger ingredients and set aside.

Binder for burgers:

2 tbsp flour

2 tbsp butter

1/2 cup milk

Blend ingredients and cook until thick. Add to the burger mix and combine.

Drop burger mix by tablespoons in hot oil and form patties. Brown on both sides. Serve with your favorite gravy, or as patties on sandwiches.

Salads:

Mexican Salad

1 can chili beans, undrained

or 1 can kidney beans, drained (and chili powder)

chopped lettuce or your favorite salad greens

chopped tomato

chopped onion

shredded cheese

Frito's

zesty Italian dressing

If you decided to use kidney beans instead of chili beans, be sure to dash chili powder on the beans and mix well first. Layer ingredients in this order in a flat dish: beans, lettuce, tomatoes, onions, grated cheese. Dish out the salad and serve topped with Frito's and Italian dressing.

This was a favorite at church potluck. Only add the Frito's and salad dressing at serving time as they will make the salad and chips soggy in the refrigerator.

Spice Mixes:

Red Beans and Rice

I use this for beans and rice, but I will also add it to a small pot of canned beans to give it some flavor.

Small batch:

.5 tbsp onion powder

.5 tbsp garlic powder

.5 tbsp dried oregano

.25 tbsp dried thyme

.25 tbsp black pepper

.75 tsp cayenne

.75 tbsp smoked paprika

.75 tbsp Old Bay seasoning

Poultry Seasoning

I have used this for soups and what not. The flavor is like what you would expect with stuffing.

4 tsp dried sage

3 tsp dried thyme

2 tsp dried marjoram

1 tsp dried rosemary

1/4 tsp ground black pepper

1/8 tsp ground nutmeg

Carl Emerson · 2025-10-25T13:43:30-0500

eleos1954 said:
If a person is offended by the call to repent or the proclamation of the Gospel, it is a necessary part of the message. However, a Christian should never cause offense through rudeness, self-righteousness, or asserting their own rights.

Jesus's words were considered radical because they challenged the cultural norms and religious traditions of his time. For those who did not want to repent or surrender their pride, his message was offensive. The offense was not from Jesus's manner, but from the spiritual conviction that his words produced.

Jesus's confrontational moments, particularly with the Pharisees, were directed at people whose hearts were hard and hypocritical. The offense was designed to challenge their false religious practices and point them back to the Scriptures.

Psalm 119:105
King James Version
105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

We should maintain this whether in church or outside of it.

I believe our greatest testimony is how we live our lives ... ie .... actions speak louder than words.

What does the world see that evidences the 'good news' and draws them to seek Jesus in this age ?

DaisyDay · 2025-10-25T13:43:17-0500

I'm Medicare with secondary insurance from my union, so I happily don't have that particular worry.

Chesterton · 2025-10-25T13:40:06-0500

bèlla said:
Why would you prepare for a fallout if you believe in the government and the president?

You said there's going to be some kind of fallout. You usually seem to know what you're talking about, and I don't know how my beliefs would prevent it.

bèlla said:
I believe he’ll honor his commitments to his donors and associates which have reciprocal benefits. But I’m not enamored with elitists.

I've seen zero evidence that he's an elitist other than that time he ate pizza with a fork. But then some New York pizzas can be a bit flaccid.

bèlla said:
All perspectives carry risks. For example, you’ve aligned yourself with the president and will probably make decisions along the lines of the positions he promotes. Which may result in favorable circumstances or not and from a gambling perspective you’re all-in. While I placed my bet on the money and ignored the rest because he isn’t trustworthy. He doesn‘t have the liberty of ignoring his donors because they funded him.

This paragraph is really over my head. No idea what you're saying.

bèlla said:
Heavens no. Are you being facetious? ~lol

All of the policies mentioned were derived from the Heritage Foundation. I don’t believe they were composed with christians in mind nor does the term appear in the policies as I recall. The largest benefactors of what they propose are the wealthy. Which is traditionally defined as someone with a minimum of $1 million dollars in liquid assets excluding their home.

That includes high net worth individuals, ultra high net worth individuals, centi-millionaires, billionaires and so on.

Then can you answer the original question about what he's going to do in the name of Christian principles?

Larniavc · 2025-10-25T13:36:21-0500

I’m never not appalled at how in America health care is rationed by individual wealth.

Neogaia777 · 2025-10-25T13:34:25-0500

Everyone and everything's fate/ultimate destination is/was/always is already fully known/fixed/decided already always, and cannot be changed, because this universe and all of the universe’s/world's before and after it/this always was/were/is/are/always are/is, fully deterministic always.

Therefore all destinations/fates of all things have always been eternal/fixed always, and bad people will always just repeat just only more of this always, because they already always have been repeating it always, and will continue to repeat it always, in creations that is/are/were both before and after this always, because everything's fates is always 100% known/already decided for them already by God always, and can't be changed always, and also those getting to go to heaven always, because all and everything's fate/fates are/always have been/always will be, always fully known by God and always unchagable eternal always, etc.

The people not getting into heaven only have more of this to look forward to always, and that both is/always was/always has been, in the always and forever unchagable and always fixed/forever eternal always, in creations that have been both before this one, and that will always be after this one always, etc, because it/that/this has also always been eternal also always, etc.

God Bless.

d taylor · 2025-10-25T13:33:13-0500

Dikaioumenoi said:
I appreciate your comment, but I'm not sure what you want me to do with a string of theological assertions. Your reply doesn't engage what Matthew 1:21 says; it makes a claim about what you think Matthew is about. What we need is exegesis.

The angel's statement isn't a comment on Matthew's readership or narrative scope. It's a divine explanation of the incarnation's purpose. "You shall call his name Jesus, for/because (γάρ) He will save His people from their sins." That's not a literary aside for a Jewish audience; it's a decree from heaven defining why the Messiah came.

So: Are we to understand the inclusion of the Gentiles as an afterthought? God's "Plan B" set in motion because "Plan A" failed?

If you're suggesting that this statement applies only within Israel's historical context, you've reduced a purpose clause to a period detail. The problem is that the grammar won't permit that. σώσει (future indicative) expresses certainty; it's an effectual promise, not a general possibility. The phrase τὸν λαὸν αὐτοῦ is possessive and definite -- "His people," not "those to whom He happens to minister."

Matthew himself broadens that phrase as the Gospel progresses. In 20:28 and 26:28, Jesus defines His mission in Isaiah 53 terms, giving His life "as a ransom for many" and pouring out His blood "for many for the forgiveness of sins." Those "many" include both Jews and Gentiles, the covenant people ransomed by His death. The same redemptive mission announced in 1:21 is fulfilled through that substitutionary work.

So can you show from the text that Matthew 1:21 was intended merely as a comment about national Israel's expectation rather than the incarnation's purpose?

-

I will give you one more courtesy and post a link to an article that further discusses Matthew 1:21. As i am not into long drawn out theological debates over the internet.

Jesus Will Save His People – Grace Evangelical Society

What Did the Angel Mean, “He Will Save His People from Their Sins”? Matthew 1:21 – Grace Evangelical Society

Chesterton · 2025-10-25T13:31:59-0500

BCP1928 said:
No, in the name of what the Christian Right thinks are Christian principles.

So is making full and immediate expensing for capital investments from the tax cuts and jobs act permanent un-Christian or anti-Christian?

Hentenza · 2025-10-25T13:31:40-0500

Studyman said:
Please try and focus here.

Great start to your post. Let’s just demean instead of being civil.

Studyman said:
You asked for scriptures which teach that the Eternal Fire of which Jesus spoke of, was specifically prepared "for the immortal devil and his angels."

I posted exactly that, and from the mouth of the Jesus "of the Bible". It wasn't prepared for the righteous angels who are immortal. I wasn't prepared for mortal men. It was prepared as punishment for immortal angels that exalted themselves above God.

You did not.

Studyman said:
Now I understand how this might be an inconvenient truth that cannot be used to promote the popular religious philosophy that ALL men are immortal. Nevertheless, it is the Words of the Jesus "of the bible" and because I no agenda or religious philosophy to promote, I am not afraid to include it in my search for God's Truth.

Jesus could have said, "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the men who called me Lord, Lord, but refused to submit to the righteousness of God". But HE didn't. The fire was prepared by God, for the immortal angels who sinned against God. And this truth is relevant to this discussion, in my view.

The same fate for the wicked since they were thrown in the very same place to suffer the very same fate. The verse could have read “not eternal for the wicked but eternal for the devil” but it does not say that. Instead the fates are joint together.

Studyman said:
There are dozens and dozens of different religions that claim the title "Christian". I asked you the question "In your religion, did satan die? And where is David?"

There is only one religion that is Christianity. There are not many since there is only one Christ.

Studyman said:
In my understanding of the rules, it isn't against them to ask questions about ones belief. In fact, it is written "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear".

The rules prohibit you to question a poster’s Christianity. If you want to ask me about my beliefs then go right ahead but dont ask me if my religion is anything other than Christianity because I would not be allowed to post here if it wasn’t,

Studyman said:
When you replied to my post, I assumed you wanted to have a discussion which, in my view, consists or asking and answering questions.

Just like you began this post? We can have a conversation but we do not have to agree. If you posit a questionable doctrine I am going to refute it.

Studyman said:
Well, according to Peter's words that I posted for your examination and review, David is dead and buried. And will remain so until God raises him from the dead. There were people who also believed Lazarus was sleeping.

And I answered as such. Were you expecting a different answer?

Studyman said:
John 11: 11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.

12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. 13 Howbeit Jesus "spake of his death": but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. 14 Then said Jesus "unto them plainly", Lazarus is dead.

In your understanding then, is Lazarus now immortal and never died of old age since Jesus raised him from the dead? Can we go talk to him? Or is he dead and buried, waiting for the resurrection that comes for all men?

How would you even draw that conclusion at this stage. The judgement and resurrection has not yet happened.

Studyman said:
Shall we not talk about these things, given they are extremely relevant to the topic at hand?

Sure but relevance and historical accuracy are important.

Studyman said:
I absolutely agree. David is not immortal, but satan is. According to Jesus, the eternal fire was created for, or "prepared for" satan and his angels. This would explain why the fire is eternal. Yes?

No. Those not found in the book of life are thrown into the very same lake of fire to suffer the very same fate as satan otherwise it would say that the fare is different but it does not.

Studyman said:
Doesn't God raise them from the dead, and then judge them? Doesn't Jesus give us a glimpse into "That day" concerning the "many" Christians that spoke to Him face to face in Matt. 7: 22,23?

You don't think these "Christians" were angry, upset? Read the prophesy! These men were pleading with the Christ, "Hey, wait a minute, don't you know who we are? We created massive religious businesses in your name, created massive shrines of worship in your name. We created our own high days and huge statues, all in your name?

If their names are not found in the book of life at judgement time then they are going into the lake of fire for eternity.

Studyman said:
When Jesus shows them they are cast out because they rejected and refused to "Live By" God's Word, as Jesus instructs. When they are shown that it was right there, right in front of them.

Duet. 30: 10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.

11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.

12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, "Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us", that we may hear it, and do it?

13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?

14 But the word "is very nigh unto thee", in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

But they chose to serve the religions of this world God placed them in instead. I don't think you have really thought about the impact that would have on men, if they had chosen to follow the "course of this world", instead of "Yielding themselves" to God as Paul taught.

And now they are staring at the end of their existence, their total destruction with no hope of ever existing again. There is no doubt that there will be pleading and begging, and then anger and gnashing of teeth before God casts them off, just as HE promised from the very beginning.

But maybe you are right, maybe God is a vindictive vengeful God who holds eternal grudges against mere mortal humans HE himself created and gave a Choice, "Life or death".

Maybe HE revels in the voices of pain and suffering for those who chose death, and desires for Him and those in His Kingdom to hear their torment for eternity.

But such a God only exists in the mind of the promoters of this world's religious system, in my view. I don't find any evidence of this God in the Holy Scriptures.

They are staring at eternity in the lake of fire and Rev. 20 teaches.

Studyman said:
Yes, the 2nd death is "Death Everlasting", there is no return from this death. No more resurrections. Eternal Destruction from the presence of the Omnipresent God.

I have asked the question, but no one will answer, "Where can life exist, that God doesn't exist?"

2Thess. 1: 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction "from the presence of the Lord", and from the glory of his power;

Absolutely but not annihilation.

Studyman said:
Nevertheless, it is good to have these discussions in my view.

Sure as long as we keep it civil.

Chesterton · 2025-10-25T13:28:09-0500

GoldenBoy89 said:
And that didn’t stop it from turning deadly either.

You're so right.

FreeinChrist · 2025-10-25T13:26:21-0500

It is Open Enrollment time so people are seeing what their premiums will be. My Medicare Advantage plan premium has doubled, but since I get what Arizona elected officials/ former elected officials on medicare get, it is not bad.

But wow, for those who are not on Medicare, and have a family of three or more, the monthly cost is $1,848.00 per month! This is the amount for those in the Arizona schools systems, universities and colleges, work in the state prisons, and elected officials and I think the Department of Public Safety officers (like state police) will have to pay for medical insurance.

A single teacher, who may only make $50,000 a year, will have to pay at least $660/month for the 'economy' plan.

But hey, Trump is building a ballroom! It is his number one priority per Karoline Leavitt.

I haven't seen the Obamacare premiums yet which some family members will be using.

What is happening with your medical insurance?

Chesterton · 2025-10-25T13:25:09-0500

NxNW said:
And trucks full of weapons at the ready.

One truck. One 71 year old man. No known political affiliation, and no known participation at the capitol. Also in the truck was contact info for Ted Cruz, Sean Hannity and Mark Levin. Sounds like possibly another leftist terrorist to me.

Chesterton · 2025-10-25T13:22:13-0500

NxNW said:
Look at you, changing the subject!

Thank you for using ChestertonGPT!

Since it seems to have gone over your head, would you like me to explain the relevance?

Abraham1st · 2025-10-25T13:18:53-0500

Sounds like the same person talking to themselves.

The Holy Spirit are the words that Jesus spoke and what all the Apostles of the Lord wrote for us.

It is that Word that judges us in the last day, what was spoken to us all in all of the world.

There is no reason left to turn away from the scriptures, and label it as not a gentle approach, and rejecting the scriptures shared because of saying we cannot know what they mean. That makes no sense or honesty, because of being judged by the same Word spoken, so we have to be able to understand the meaning, and it is not difficult to understand either, all is exampled and ensample and as exampled by the Lords Holy Apostles.

Philippians 3:15 Let us therefore, AS MANY AS BE PERFECT, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.
17 Brethren, BE FOLLOWERS TOGETHER OF ME, AND MARK THEM WHICH WALK SO AS YE HAVE US FOR AN ENSAMPLE.
18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the ENEMIESS OF THE CROSSS OF CHRIST:
19 Whose end is destruction, WHOSE GOD IS THEIR BELLY, and WHOSE GLORY IS THEIR SHAME, who MIND EARTHLY THINGS.)

Also if we heed the warnings in the scriptures, GOOD WORDS AND FAIR SPEECHES ARE ANOTHER SIGN OF THE ENEMY AT WORK.....

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and BY GOOD WORDS AND FAIR SPEECHES DECEIVE THE HEARTS OF THE SIMPLE.
19 For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and SIMPLE CONCERNING EVIL.
20 And THE GOD OF PEACE SHALL BRUISE SATAN UNDER YOUR FEET SHORTLY. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

Florian7051 · 2025-10-25T13:12:45-0500

My recovery has been a long road, and I'm still not out of the woods. I've recently had a burst of motivation to start working harder on my physical health, mental health, spiritual health, and broken relationships. Maybe I'm being selfish, but I've been praying for the same thing day-in day-out, and night after night. I've been praying for my heart to be filled with love, so that I can share it with those around me. I've been praying for any harbored resentment to leave my heart and mind so I can see others as God sees me. I've gotten this strange feeling a couple times, like an emotional descent into hell. There's no torment or suffering, just absence. It's like a realization that this connection I don't think I have with God I've actually always had, and I don't realize it until it disappears. What I'm left with is this terrible sense of isolation far beyond anything I've ever experienced, this loneliness I didn't think was even possible. It's terrifying. Sometimes I don't even want to pray. I don't know what's wrong with me. I don't know why my heart is filled with such bitterness. Logically I want to forgive everyone who has wronged me, but it's like my heart holds on to the hate regardless of me wanting to let go of it. Just needed to vent. I feel lost.

Hentenza · 2025-10-25T13:10:39-0500

JulieB67 said:
I disagree. We should always take the first meaning unless the context tells us otherwise.

1. to destroy fully
2. (reflexively) to perish, or lose

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.
From apo and the base of olethros; to destroy fully (reflexively, to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively -- destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.

Christ is not talking about wineskins in Matthew 10:28. He's talking about both body and soul being destroyed in hell. That would tells us the person is "fully" destroyed. Not life eternal in hell. That's where context matters.

That would be hermeneutical error. But that would be the only way to defend your error.

JulieB67 said:
Because I already addressed this in another post.

Matthew 25:46 "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

Only one person ends up with "life" in that verse. Your belief suggest that both have life eternal, just in different places. That is what you are stating but not what that verse states. You can continue to deny it but the second death is punishment.

You would have to jump hurdles to get to the conclusion since eternal is indeed eternal and eternal being an adjective modifying punishment would make punishment as eternal as eternal life. The contrast here is absolute.

Secondly, Luke tells us what is like to be in hades for the wicked. There is no end. The rich man is very much alive and not annihilated.

“Now it happened that the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s arms; and the rich man also died and was buried. And in Hades he raised his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his arms. And he cried out and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus, so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.’ But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set, so that those who want to go over from here to you will not be able, nor will any people cross over from there to us.’”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16‬:‭22‬-‭26‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Luke 16:22-26 Now it happened that the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s arms; and the rich man also died and was buried. And in Hades he raised his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abra | New American Standard Bible - NAS

Now it happened that the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s arms; and the rich man also died and was buried. And in Hades he raised his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abra

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JulieB67 said:
So says you. But your interpretation throws out the clear verses in the OT that tells us what will happen to the wicked. To say someone is burned up to the point of neither root or branch left and ashes would then definitely point to apollumi in regards to the second death would be fully and utterly destroyed.

There are no clear verses that defend annihilation. Many verses refute it.

bbbbbbb · 2025-10-25T13:10:13-0500

Not exactly my cup of tea, so yuck.

bone soup?

Larniavc · 2025-10-25T13:08:03-0500

Chesterton said:
I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers. It must be a little like living in Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia.

That’s an impression I find really to marry to reality over here.

I’ve never felt any inclination to engage in hate speech or threaten murder so I’ve never felt the impact of our (UK) laws about what can and cannot be said in public.

I’ve even been an ‘agent of the state’ (in a way) when I’ve had to advise my patients that certain things they say void confidentiality and will be passed on the relevant authorities.

Niels · 2025-10-25T13:07:55-0500

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Oompa Loompa · 2025-10-25T13:07:04-0500

RileyG said:
People were allowed to gather together?

And the reason why they were allowed to gather together is because Trump is neither a king, nor a fascist dictator. So I guess the no kings rally accomplished what it was intended because Trump still isn't a king or fascist dictator.

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Psalm 119:105​

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Psalm 119:105

King James Version