Hell doesn't exist and there is no eternal suffering, instead bad peolle just cease to exist

[Jipsah]

It is the obvious interpretation.

If that's what you already believe.

It does not say that they are annihilated either.

I never said it did. But this does:

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
No interpretation necessary there. Plain as can be.

The fire would not be eternal if the punishment was not eternal.

Yep, sez so right there in your doctrine.

If annihilation was right then the fire would go off as soon as all were annihilated.

No doubt to save fuel.

Tell ya what, you go with your interpretations and surmises, I'll go with what our Lord said.

 

[Hentenza]

Tell ya what, you go with your interpretations and surmises, I'll go with what our Lord said.

The Lord does not say what you propose. I’ll go with what He teaches in scripture.

 

[Jipsah]

The Lord does not say what you propose.

Really? Then who do you reckon said this:
Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

I’ll go with what He teaches in scripture.

As long as it suits your doctrine, of course.

 

[Hentenza]

Really? Then who do you reckon said this:
Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Let’s look and see how the word apollymi (strong G622) is translated in Matthew.

Mat 5:29 - “Now if your right eye is causing you to sin, tear it out and throw it away from you; for it is better for you to lose G622 one of the parts of your body,[fn]than for your whole body to be throwninto [fn]hell.

Mat 9:17 - “Nor do people put newwine into old wineskins; otherwise the wineskins burst, and the wine pours outand the wineskins are ruined G622; but they put new wine into fresh wineskins, and both are preserved.”

Mat 10:39 - “The one who has foundhis [fn]life will lose G622 it, and the one who has lost G622 his [fn]life on My account will find it.

Mat 12:14 - But the Pharisees went outand [fn]conspired against Him, as to howthey might destroy G622 Him.

I guess you are going to ignore the pattern.

As long as it suits your doctrine, of course.

Nah. Just what scripture says.

 

[Fervent]

Some discussions very much leave me scratching my head and asking, "does it really matter?" if we agree that God will judge the wicked with some kind of eternal consequence, does it matter what the specifics are? All I really need to know is that it's something to be avoided at all costs, why then dispute with someone who agrees but has a different idea about exactly what the punishment entails? Is there something I'm missing that makes this worth debating?

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

All I really need to know is that it's something to be avoided at all costs, why then dispute with someone who agrees but has a different idea about exactly what the punishment entails?

And some believers actually look forward to the eradication of the evil present within our own hearts, with JOY no less.

Why dodge it when that is exactly the direction to run to and is the basis of our Hope in Christ?

Romans 7:21
I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

Hiding it won't do anyone any good. That is however the totally natural response in the face of the threat of eradication

Some however very much look forward to that loss

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Mat 5:29 - “Now if your right eye is causing you to sin, tear it out and throw it away from you; for it is better for you to lose G622 one of the parts of your body,[fn]than for your whole body to be throwninto [fn]hell.

Hmmmm? That silly literalness gets readers in trouble, especially when they start gouging out their physical eyes.

I'm sure you heard about the guy who gouged out his right eye to avoid hell?

He found our he was a left eye luster.

Mark 7:
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:

The above is NOT optional. It's a hard line fact for everyone. Unless of course they are blinded by the god of this world to their own internal matters and are both deceived and deceivers.

It's unfortunate that there are so few honest believers, ain't it?

Note to self: Jesus said WHEN your eye is evil, not IF

Luke 11:34
The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness.

I'd suggest lying hypocrisy makes the body full of darkness

Why do you think it is that so few can fess up to this internal reality? And instead, deny, hide, dance around the fact endlessly? It's quite fascinating really.

Once it's seen however, and honestly confronted, you'll never see the same way again.

 

[Dan1988]

There is a "church" that is defined exactly as you are saying. The philosophies you are promoting, are in line with 2000 years of tradition practiced by this religion/religious system/"church" or as Paul called it, "The course of this world".

I do not, nor have I implied, that I believe the "Church of God" is made up of thousands of religious sects and businesses. Just because you say something, or believe something, doesn't make it true.




No, that is your opinion of me based on malice and "tale bearing". My understanding of Scripture is that the Body of Christ are believers who are "doers of His Sayings", not hearer only. These are those who will endure to the end and die in hope that God will raise them from the dead and give them life eternal.




This is true. But remember, not everyone who calls Jesus Lord, Lord, are part of this Body.




Of course not, but according to the Jesus, "of the Bible's, Words the members of God's Church will grow among liars and false converts and scammers of every kind until HE separates the tares from the wheat. Then, in the final judgment, the tares will be cast into a fire that burns forever, and the tares will be destroyed with an everlasting destruction, never to exist again in God's Creation. While the wheat will be saved unto eternal life. At least, this is what Jesus teaches.

The philosophy that God doesn't destroy wickedness, but preserves it for eternity even though HE has the power to destroy both body and soul, is popular no doubt. But I simply doesn't align with what the Scriptures say, when all God's Word in taken into consideration, in my understanding..




This is true. The children of the devil will transform themselves into apostles of Christ, they will be "many" that "Come in His Name", and "call Him Lord, Lord". But they won't be "doers" of the Christ's Sayings. HE said we can know them by their works.



This is true.



The mainstream preachers of Jesus time slandered Him for believing all that was written in the Holy Scriptures. The mainstream preachers of Paul's time slandered him for believing all that was written in the Holy Scriptures. And now you are slandering me for believing all that is written in the Holy Scriptures.

Perhaps you should step back and consider these things.



Yes. Now if men would only believe Him.

John 8: 23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I said therefore unto you, that ye "shall die" in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye "shall die" in your sins.

The promoters of this world's religious system teach that men with "Live in their sins" for eternity.

Jesus doesn't teach this.



Again, I posted God's Words that speak to "Life and death", which show that they are opposite endings for all humans. And God alone grants them. This world's religions promote a philosophy that they are the same, that both death and life, mean "After Life". As the scriptures that I and others have posted, this interpretation, though in line with 2000 years of church history, does not reflect God's definition of this things, when all of His Words are taken in consideration.



You judgment of me is your private interpretation.

None of your private opinions are based on Biblical truth. You believe that Devils are members of Christs Body, but you haven't shown a single verse to support your theory.

I can't imagine the Lord allowing Demons to be a part of His Body. It would help if you identify the scriptures which support your theory.

My Bible tells me that the Lord has no fellowship with Demons, so I must disagree with you again. Everything I read from you,, reveals that your theology is unbiblical and strange. You claim to believe Gods Word, but you have been denying everything He said.

 

[Hentenza]

Hmmmm? That silly literalness gets readers in trouble, especially when they start gouging out their physical eyes.

I'm sure you heard about the guy who gouged out his right eye to avoid hell?

lol this is from a person that wants me to interpret “destroy” literally only.

He found our he was a left eye luster.

Mark 7:
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:

The above is NOT optional. It's a hard line fact for everyone. Unless of course they are blinded by the god of this world to their own internal matters and are both deceived and deceivers.

And? Do you have a point to make about this verse?

It's unfortunate that there are so few honest believers, ain't it?

Are you calling me dishonest?

Note to self: Jesus said WHEN your eye is evil, not IF

Luke 11:34
The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness.

Again, your point is?

I'd suggest lying hypocrisy makes the body full of darkness

And?

Why do you think it is that so few can fess up to this internal reality? And instead, deny, hide, dance around the fact endlessly? It's quite fascinating really.

You, of course, are one of the few.

Once it's seen however, and honestly confronted, you'll never see the same way again.

What are we never going to see the same way again? Confronted with what?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Mat 25:46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

The verse says everlasting punishment, not punishing i.e. death, the consequence of sin Rom6:23 the punishment is everlasting, there is no coming back from the second death.

This is the second death

Mat 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

[Studyman]

None of your private opinions are based on Biblical truth. You believe that Devils are members of Christs Body, but you haven't shown a single verse to support your theory.

That's not a very nice thing to say. In Jesus Time, the "main stream church" was the Pharisees. They had taken over the City of David, and Solomons Temple. They "professed to know God", claiming to be part of God's Church AKA, "Abraham's Children". Jesus Himself said they were "children of the devil". Lots of people chose to listen to them, rather than God's Word and as a result, they were deceived into joining with them with their man made shrines of worship, and their man made high days and man made judgments and Alms and prayers to be seen of men. True believers did not join with them, but to deny such a church exists, filled with "many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord, is a rejection of the Christ Himself. That is, the Jesus "of the bible".

Where does the tradition that all humans live for eternity come from? As I and others have tried to show from scriptures and discussions, it's a religious philosophy wrought in man, not God. Jude explains how this evil infects God's church.

Jude 1: 3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. (Law and Prophests) 4 For there "are certain men crept in unawares", who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

10 But these speak evil "of those things which they know not": but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves. 11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. 12 These are spots "in your feasts of charity", when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; 13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

Paul speaks about this very thing as well.

2nd Corinthians 11: 12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, "they may be found even as we". 13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, "transforming themselves" into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; "for Satan himself" is transformed into an angel of light. (Wolf in sheep's clothing) 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed "as the ministers of righteousness"; whose end shall be according to their works.

And what is the doctrine that was promoted by satan in his very first recorded sermon? "Thou shall surely not die". You can find this Truth in the Holy Bible.

I can't imagine the Lord allowing Demons to be a part of His Body. It would help if you identify the scriptures which support your theory.

They are not part of the Body. You must make up stuff about others to satisfy a fleshy lust, as if I said or even implied that the devil is part of the Body of Christ. But Jesus, when asked about these times, HE didn't warn about Islam or Atheists. Please try and listen to the Jesus "of the bible" and here who HE warned about.

Matt. 24: 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, "Take heed" that no man "deceive you". 5 For "many" shall come "in my name", saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; and "shall deceive" many.

As you can see, Jesus' greatest fear for His People, was not Atheism or Islam or Buddha. His Greatest fear for His People was that they would be deceived by the "Many" who come in Christ's Name.

He warns again in Matt. 7:22 of "Many" self proclaimed "Christians", who work iniquity while claiming to be a member of the Body of Christ, calling HIM Lord, Lord.

The Law and Prophets prophesy and warn of this very thing over and over and over and over. But these men, "who professed to know God" wouldn't listen.

I advocate that men listen to HIM, not the popular religions of this world God placed us in, whose philosophies you are promoting.

My Bible tells me that the Lord has no fellowship with Demons, so I must disagree with you again.

And yet you are promoting the popular but false teaching that humans live forever. All I have advocated for is that a person consider "ALL" that is written, knowing that God's word doesn't contradict itself. And for that you judge me as believing the devil is part of the Body of Christ.

Perhaps you might step back a little and clean up your own house first, before making such judgments about others.

Something to think about.

Everything I read from you,, reveals that your theology is unbiblical and strange. You claim to believe Gods Word, but you have been denying everything He said.

I'm sorry you feel the need to slander me in such a way. But Jesus did warn me that if I followed Him, it wouldn't be the drunkards and atheists that will ridicule and slander me, but men of my own household who call Jesus Lord, Lord.

 

[JulieB67]

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
No interpretation necessary there. Plain as can be.

Exactly.

But they will continue to believe death is not really death. And believe the word destroy in the context used to better fit their doctrine instead of taking the very first meaning which is to "destroy fully". That's why Christ states body and soul. So there can be no doubt of what he's talking about.

 

[Hentenza]

Exactly.

But they will continue to believe death is not really death. And believe the word destroy in the context used to better fit their doctrine instead of taking the very first meaning which is to "destroy fully". That's why Christ states body and soul. So there can be no doubt of what he's talking about.

How about:

“These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25‬:‭46‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Matthew 25:46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

bible.com

The punishment itself is eternal. Now what? Word definitions have a semantic range so just focusing on one and only one definition leads to error. Context is important.

 

[JulieB67]

The punishment itself is eternal. Now what? Word definitions have a semantic range so just focusing on one and only one definition leads to error. Context is important.

This is my point. One has to look at the context within the verse to come up with the meaning. We can't use a wineskin example and Christ stating that both body and soul are destroyed in hell and come up with same meaning. That does not fit at all. But if we see the verses in Malachi about what happens to the wicked (burned up and ashes) and put that together with Christ's stating that both body and and soul are destroyed then we have context. Especially since we see that the first meaning is "fully destroyed" in the Greek. It's always stated life or death. But again, only one has life.

And eternal death is punishment. Eternal destruction is punishment.

Are you actually stating that you believe our own justice systems are wrong in calling death punishment?