That whole argument is a thinly veiled strawman. I don't see anybody suggesting they have their own reality.

Valletta said:

Fifty agitators were arrested.

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Looks like they are going to make some money. That will help them to keep their job secure if they are able to bring in money like that.

RandyPNW said:

I don't know why you should think that God's Justice does not require the "punishment" of ungodly people?

As for how the Bible defines the "Kingdom of God," it is not just a general sense of God's Justice. It has a much more technical definition as applied to the hope of Israel, along with the hope for the world.

Abraham was promised a family of faith consisting of the Israeli nation, along with many other nations dedicated to God. I suppose them all to be Christian nations, ultimately, even though Israel has not yet achieved that.

Once these goals are met in the Millennial Age I think the Kingdom of God will assume a completely different form, when the mortal passes completely into immortality.

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God’s justice does require dealing with the ungodly, but Scripture shows that His justice is bigger than simple punishment. It’s the way God removes evil, protects the righteous, and brings creation back into alignment with His covenant purposes. The Kingdom of God isn’t just a general idea of fairness—it’s a technical, covenant term tied directly to the hope of Israel and the blessing of the nations promised to Abraham.

Abraham was promised a physical nation (Israel) and many nations brought into the blessing. That promise hasn’t been fully realized yet, but the prophets describe a future age where Israel is restored and the nations walk in God’s ways. That’s the Millennial Age, where the Messiah rules, justice is immediate, and the covenant promises reach their earthly fulfillment.

Once those purposes are complete, the Kingdom shifts into its final form. Mortality gives way to immortality, the old creation passes, and the New Heavens and New Earth begin. At that point the Kingdom of God is no longer tied to mortal nations—it becomes fully eternal.

bèlla said:

Do you know how to read either language without relying on another person's translation? And if getting to the source was a priority why haven't you learned?



What religion wants has no bearing on my walk with God nor is proving them wrong a necessity. The fruit will tell in time. There should be little disconnection between what we know, do and produce. Each ascension brings a greater level of anointing and authority and flows outward. How is the kingdom enriched by your efforts? It seems very self-focused.

~bella

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Even with just the English translations, the Devil fights, wages war for his worldly kingdoms. Jesus said those of the light do not. Jesus keeps giving clues on who the Devil is.

I've shut myself to the poison of the Devil. I'm not going back to something I've known most of my life. The heaviness is just more unbearable than even poverty or even being single for a very long time.

I've lived a comfortable life before and even able to travel for work but I'm not missing it at all. I now remotely work for Christians who are quite well off even have their own farm. Working for them gives me joy but I don't dream nor covet the things they have. I'm happy for them. It gives me joy to see them happy. Wish I could tell them what I know now but glad there's quiet voice out there if they're willing to listen to it.

They're marrying left and right but I feel absolutely no pressure at all. Maybe my circumstances prevent me from pursuing relationships but I might actually feel just the same if my circumstances are different.

Ofc, back then being comfortable meant quite differently. I did not lower my standards like I'd settle for something less of the same things. My desires changed. My mind changed. I don't want the same things any longer.

I think the coming generation is heading this direction too. I don't really know, just a hunch. Ofc, many are not Christians (non-religious) to begin with.

Welcome aboard 'Poetrob'! What a rich background you bring!

We are born again by believing into the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. We were raised together with Him. He is the head, we are his body.

1 Peter 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,


Ephesians 2:5-6
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; )
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

John 3:15-18
15 that everyone believing into Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that everyone believing into Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God did not send His Son into the world that He might judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
18 The one believing into Him is not condemned; but the one not believing has already been condemned, for he has not believed into the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Is Trump having more difficulty ruling governing, as he ages?
Yes, definitively, it’s a tough job for someone half his age.
He’s “slipping”, he’s a human being, after all.
Will he exit the Office for the good of the country, (should it come to that, which it hasn’t), or will he cling onto this sweet, sweet power?

Decisions, decisions.

As followers of Jesus Christ we must guard our hearts and minds against relying upon Scriptures, taught out of context, to teach us the truth of the gospel. So many people today are creating a gospel of salvation that is not of God, and that is not consistent with the teachings of the Scriptures, because they are teaching the Scriptures outside of their correct biblical context. And some (or many) of them are “wolves in sheep’s clothing” who are doing this purposefully in order to lead the people to believe the lies.

Here are some of the Scriptures that are typically taught out of context:

I Give Them Eternal Life


Taught out of context, this is typically used to assure all who profess the name of Jesus that their salvation (genuine or not) is secured for them for eternity, and that not even their deliberate and habitual sinful lifestyles and practices, and their refusal to surrender to God to obey God’s commands, in practice, will keep them out of heaven for eternity. But why do they leave out verse 27 which tells us who “they” are? Mostly this is done by liars and deceivers in order to give a false message of grace. For Jesus said,


So, it is not all who say they believe in Jesus who have this promise, but all who are truly his followers (his sheep) who are listening to the Lord, who are heeding (obeying) his commands, and who are following him in living self-controlled, upright, and godly lives, for his glory. Yes, it is possible that we might still sin (1 John 2:1-2), but if sin is our practice, and not obedience to God, we will not inherit eternal life with God (Matthew 7:21-23; Luke 9:23-26; Romans 6:1-23; Galatians 5:16-18; Titus 2:11-14; 1 John 3:4-10).

In Christ Jesus


Taught out of context, often this is used to assure all who profess the name of Jesus that they truly are “in Christ,” and therefore they are not under the condemnation of God, so no matter how much they sin, those sins will not be charged against them, and heaven will still be secured for them no matter how they live. And it is very popular today to tell people who are, indeed, deliberately and habitually sinning against God, that they should just “claim who you are in Christ,” as though that covers all their deliberate sins.


So, those who are “in Christ” are all who, by the grace of God, no longer live (in practice) according to the flesh (in sin) but according to (in agreement with) the Holy Spirit, in surrender to our Lord in walks of obedience to his commands in holy living, in the power of God. For “our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin” (Romans 6:6). For we are slaves of the one we obey, either of sin, leading to death, or of obedience, leading to righteousness and to eternal life with God (see Romans 6:1-23).

[Matthew 7:13-14,21-23; Luke 9:23-26; Romans 6:1-23; Romans 8:1-14; Galatians 5:16-24; Ephesians 2:8-10; Ephesians 4:17-32; Ephesians 5:3-6; Titus 2:11-14; 1 John 1:1-10; 1 John 2:1-6; 1 John 3:4-10; Acts 26:18]

My Sheep

Based off John 10:1-30 NIV
An Original Work / June 24, 2012
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love

My sheep hear me. They know me.
They listen to my voice and obey.
I call them and lead them.
They know my voice, so they follow me.
They will never follow strangers.
They will run away from them.
The voice of a stranger they know not;
They do not follow him.

So, I tell you the truth that
I am the gate, so you enter in.
Whoever does enter
Will find forgiveness and will be saved.
Nonetheless whoever enters
Not by the gate; other way,
He is the thief and a robber.
Listen not, the sheep to him.

Oh, I am the Good Shepherd,
Who laid his own life down for the sheep.
I know them. They know me.
They will live with me eternally.
The thief only comes to steal and
Kill and to destroy the church.
I have come to give you life that
You may have it to the full…

They know my voice, so they follow me.

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Out of Context 1
An Original Work / February 9, 2026
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love

Thanks for the contributions to the discussion.

Brunner downplayed propositional doctrinal knowledge and placed his emphasis on the need for a Divine-Human encounter as more important than assent to propositions. Protestant system building he suggested could at times be like a frozen waterfall, great shapes of movement but with no movement.

I have to say when I read of conversion accounts like Joy Gresham's where she described it as "God came in" Brunner may have a point, but he probably goes too far. However nowadays the problem may at times be more doctrinal indifference, than when Brunner wrote. Or on the other hand a sort of doctrinal eclectism.

That Brunner's Christology may lean towards Docetism I have heard suggested (sorry cannot recall where I read that).

Anyone any thoughts on any of that?

Theresa

Chaos is often the bogieman of the faithless and unimaginative that needs the heavy boot of the law for what anthropologists have dubbed "terror management". But what happens when increasingly it seems the terror management itself is terror? "Are we the badguys, Hans?"

Now, the Lord led me to do a video talk on this subject, and unless I am reading in the video what I wrote here, which I have not yet written anything, I am usually just sharing in the videos what God gives me to say at the moment that I am recording. So rarely will these writings and the videos be exact copies of one another. So, while the video is being uploaded I will write here whatever else the Lord puts on my heart to say on this subject, some of which may or may not be the same as on the video.

Basically, the picture the Lord is giving me from this passage of Scripture is not so much centered on talk that is corrupt, distasteful, and unethical, but on talk which is just wasteful. Obviously I am on the internet, and I am in the world of blogging, and on social media, and on Christian discussion sites, and so I get to see a lot of what other people are writing and posting on the internet, including what others who profess faith in Jesus Christ are posting on the internet for others to read. And so much of it is just pure junk!

Now, I feel as though I have a fairly good (healthy) sense of humor. As the mother of 4 (+4) and the grandmother of 14 (+2), and the great-grandmother of 2, I have to have a good sense of humor. Right? Children are always going to do things to make us laugh. And laughing can be very healthful, if what we are laughing at is not what is crude, distasteful, unkind, immoral, and/or mocking of others who are just different from us. But humor is not to be what we live by and all that we talk about and share on the internet.

For God did not put us on this earth to be entertainers who everybody loves. God put us who believe in Jesus Christ on this earth to die with him to sin, and to live with him in righteousness and holiness, and to walk (in conduct) in obedience to his commands. And he put us on this earth to be his witnesses in sharing with the people of the world the truth of the gospel of Christ, which is that Jesus died on that cross to put our sins to death with him so by faith in him we will die to sin and live for God and obey our Lord.

So, as those who profess faith in Jesus Christ, we need to be doing what God has called us to do as his followers. And we need to not be wasting time and speech and writing on what is pure garbage, or on what has no eternal value, or on what is just empty and does nothing to help anyone. And I am certainly not saying that we can’t talk about what is going on in our lives, or that we can’t share pictures or human interest stories, and the like. But we need to be sharing Jesus with the world and not just what is of this flesh.

We need to be writing about and talking about what is beneficial to us spiritually, morally, ethically, and of great importance, like sharing about what is going on in the world and how it relates to what the Scriptures teach about the last days. For we live in very troubled times, and it is looking more and more like that rule of the beast is already on our doorsteps and is about to consume the nations and peoples of the world. So time is not on our side. So we need to be about the work of the Lord and not waste away our time.

For God’s grace, which is bringing us salvation, is training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives while we wait for Jesus’ return. For Christ “gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.” “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.” (See Titus 2:11-14; Ephesians 2:8-10)

[Matthew 7:13-14,21-23; Luke 9:23-26; Romans 6:1-23; Romans 8:1-14; Galatians 5:16-24; Ephesians 2:8-10; Ephesians 4:17-32; Ephesians 5:3-6; Titus 2:11-14; 1 John 1:1-10; 1 John 2:1-6; 1 John 3:4-10; Acts 26:18]

Being Made Right

An Original Work / September 8, 2019
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love

Jesus, lover of my soul,
Cleansed and saved me,
Made me whole;
Purified me, now new within.
By His grace, I’m free from sin.

Holy Spirit lives within,
Teaching me to walk with Him,
Guiding me each step of the way.
Living for my Lord each day.

Father God, He is my Lord.
Walk with Him in one accord.
Follow Him wherever He leads,
Living holy, Him to please.

Witnessing for Him each day,
Loving others in His way,
Telling them about Jesus Christ,
And how they can be made right.

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Only What is Helpful

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An Original Work / February 8, 2026
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love

Yes I agree I have a speciall attachment to those smaller village churches in whatever the country, seem to have a unique character that brings you closer to worship and to the history of the many generations that have called the church their spiritual home. I'm obviously partial to the centuries old seaside beaches in Greece, looking out over the sea as if beckoning people from the world over to share in Christ's love.

But I have to agree there is something quite special too about those little homely churches in France. We've visited there a few times over the past couple of years and there's a real down to earth, pastoral quality of the regions where those little churches have sat there for centuries, or being built newly there.

A kind of unique charm and it is good to hear there is new interest in maintaining and building them along the countryside.

FireDragon76 said:

In practice, alot of Orthodox tend to emphasize salvation as a matter of ascetical technique mediated through approved channels, not a relationship with a person. And despite the rhetoric that "We know not where the Church is not", in practice there's too much implied bullying/shaming of Protestants that I don't think is theologically warranted and portrays a brittle notion of Christ's presence that is simply unreal.

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no we don’t. the ascetical techniques are only possible and supplied by the relationship with Christ. and the end goal is eternally deepening of that relationship. St Sophrony of Essex says the whole point of hesychasm is to behold the face of Christ in His glory. other hesychasts have said the same thing.

I mean hesychastic prayer is to ceaselessly internally say, “Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God (Person) have mercy on (relationship) me, a sinner (another person).

I don’t see the point of this, because this essay is flawed in our understanding out of the gate.

We should leave Australia Day as it is. We should celebrate the arrival of the British, along with their rule and culture.

I'm an immigrant myself, yet I respect local tradition & customs.

To change Australia for the sake of immigrants or aborigines does not seem reasonable to me.

FireDragon76 said:

Jesus explains the parable further in 16:9, "I tell you, use worldly wealth to gain friends for yourselves, so that when it is gone, you will be welcomed into eternal dwellings.". The parable's situation is not meant to be taken literally, but point to a deeper truth, that the "children of this world" are being wiser in material things than the Pharisees

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i agree

FireDragon76 said:

the Pharisees, who see themselves as "children of light".

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This i'm not sure, for i've got no hindsight as regard this terminology

FireDragon76 said:

Everybody understands the value of a good reputation in Jesus' day, and Jesus is saying "look, by being stingy with mercy, you are not honoring God, you are merely being stingy, and you won't inherit anything in the age to come".

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Yes, if such is what Jesus means, but i don't see what more contribution it makes

The Chicxulub body that ended the Cretaceous period and likely killed off all but avian dinosaurs was at least 150 times larger than the rock that's approaching Earth now. It would still have a profound effect, but wouldn't end civilization.

Matthew 18:6 I hope it doesn't apply to Trump and his friends.

Pommer said:

Oh boy another round of “welfare-queen”?
All the oldies are making a comeback!

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I think we stumbled into the "immigrant crime" section of Brietbart CF.

Firstlightdawn said:

We don’t know the exact time of Jesus’ return, but Scripture shows He will intervene before humanity destroys itself.

Jerusalem becomes the capital of the world at the moment Jesus returns and takes His throne, and the Bible ties that moment directly to the same sequence you’ve been tracing: Armageddon, the shaking of the nations, the collapse of human power, and the beginning of the Kingdom Age.

The prophets are remarkably consistent about this. All my life I’ve seen Christmas cards quoting the promise that “the government will be upon His shoulder” (Isaiah 9:6–7), and it always made me wonder what that actually means. Scripture connects that promise directly to the future reign of the Messiah. We are told that when He returns, we will rule and reign with Him for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4–6).

“I will bring the third part through the fire, refine them as silver is refined, and test them as gold is tested.” — Zechariah 13:9

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It is all that is Prophesied to happen before the glorious Return, which we should be concerned about. From Rev 6:12 to Rev 19:11.

tall73 said:

Of course the ten commandments are not disputed. Nor did they go away, including the Sabbath. Nor did the other appointed times.

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SabbathBlessings said:

Colossians 2:8 warns against traditions of men, not the commandments of God. Jesus never taught anyone to set aside God’s commandments,

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SabbathBlessings said:

There is no straw man here. I did not claim anyone explicitly said God’s commandments were set aside;

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You are arguing a Strawman. @tall73 tells you that the commandments did not go away and you argue about setting aside the commandments. You don’t realize that you are arguing a fallacy?

The Righterzpen said:

The propensity to transgress had to "come from somewhere" though. Somewhere outside of the good intention God created with. Could any creature created "good" generate out of "only good" "evil"? And thus the framework I'm thinking of as to why "the absence of good" is "evil" could be an "opposite reaction" byproduct of God's creative action.

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I actually explained that here:

Arial-byGrace said:

On the other hand, only God is the measure of good and that measure is himself. Anything he creates is good, but if he creates something with moral agency---which he did, angels and humans that we know of---now they have a responsibility of perfect moral obedience. And if there is present with them in the Garden of Eden, one who has already transgressed moral obedience, which there was, and God gives them commands and duties, which he did; dominion over the earth to care for it. And one specific command that if disobeyed will change the course of history, and they disobey, the result is a corrupted creature who will now someday die, and who loses that face-to-face relationship with God, and the two, man and God, become enemies. So that is the origin of evil in our world.

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The Righterzpen said:

Now, obviously because God possessed the knowledge of evil; we know that "evil" "existed", at least in theory; even in the absence of any material creation.

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Evil doesn't exist as an entity. It is an action contrary to God's holiness and we as his image bearers are obligated to bear that image. Satan's rebellion against God was to leave his assigned duties and position, even though he was not an image bearer.

The Righterzpen said:

Agreed, the central purpose of the design of the cosmos was to destroy evil; and in doing so prevents the "reinfection" of hecorruption of the recreated cosmos.

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Exactly. That is why he created humanity mortal (able to die) but wouldn't as long as he had access to the Tree of Life, and corruptible (not corrupt but able to be corrupted). It is Christ's resurrection and his glorified body that guarantees ours. He the firstfruits of the resurrection.

The Righterzpen said:

I know there was a divine plan among the persons of the Godhead that existed before action was put to the creation plan. Assuming that's what's meant by Covenant of Redemption.

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Yes. But it was a divine covenant. The Father would send, Jesus would do the work, the Holy Spirit would apply that work and seal the believer, and bring about sanctification. The plan is what we see unfolding in history.

The Righterzpen said:

Light coming forth to dispel darkness though would mean darkness preexisted light and I don't see how that's possible; as nothing existed before God was. And light can't expel something that doesn't exist prior to lights existence.

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That darkness that was over the earth simply means God had not yet brought light to it. It does not speak to the pre-existence of darkness. Darkness is not something that exists, it is the absence of something that does exist. Take the darkness of a shadow. It is only dark because something is blocking the light. If nothing is blocking the light, there is no shadow.

The Righterzpen said:

Thus why it makes the most sense that "darkness" comes about as the "reaction" to God's action of creating. Thus why I think the "darkness / light" duality, is not only the commencement of something created; but also the commencement of time. Because darkness and light both existed before God separated them into "day" and "night".

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Not on the earth because he hadn't created it yet. He separated them into day and night on the earth and for the earth.

The Righterzpen said:

Well first, we'd need to define what purpose the "seed bearer" idea occupies. Jesus tells Nicodemus "You must be born from above." If Spiritual rebirth is the requirement for redemption; what's the point of there being a "seed bearer" and what is the "seed" that bearer is bearing? All humanity, except Jesus conceived by the Holy Spirit; came from Adam. And this included Seth. So the "sons of God" and the "daughters of men" all come from the same "seed".

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That is not the first thing. The first thing is why I mentioned the seed bearing line of Seth that is given in Gen4 and 5 and how it relates to the "sons of God" in Gen 6. You have switched from the category of it intent to "what is meant by the seed bearer and jumped again in one sentence later to Nicodemus and being born again. Then to spiritual rebirth and redemption and back again to "what is the purpose of "seed bearer", and then back farther to "therefore, it can't apply to Gen 6 and "sons of God" and "daughters of men". Yikes!

So once again, providing a cogent response to such a jumble of collapsed categories is impossible. I tell you these things out of kindness, because evidently you are not aware you are doing it. An editor would have a field day with it. So, I will just give you the Scripture reference concerning the Seed and leave it at that. I will let you put it together as to how it relates to the geneologies in Gen 4-5 and the sons of God in 6.

Gen 3:14-15

So the LORD God said to the serpent:

“Because you have done this,

cursed are you above all livestock

and every beast of the field!

On your belly will you go,

and dust you will eat,

all the days of your life.

15And I will put enmity between you and the woman,

and between your seed and her seed.

He will crush your head,

That btw is the beginning of the redemption part of the plan moving into history, The first announcement of it.

and you will strike his heel.c”

Pray The Holy Spirit guides Japanese PM Sanae Takaichi, whose party recently had a greater victory in elections, to appoint Christians in government: