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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Mamdani Publishes Names, Addresses of NYC Homeowners Facing New Pied-à-Terre Tax

So it's not just wealthy people with their information doxxed but everyone on the property tax rolls. How very democratic! It's a darned good thing that wealthy entrepreneurs and corporations can't and don't access information on working class people to target them for predatory marketing and other nefarious schemes!
On those lists, no...

It's properties that are non-primary residences that could be subject to this new tax.

Another glaring issue (which I think some of the critics have pointed out) is that it's not as if these are all mansions that are in gated communities or in heightened security buildings.

For a condo/apartment in NYC that's owned, setting a $1M property value threshold isn't just doxxing the "fat cats"




There's nothing spectacular about these properties or anything that scream "rich" when you look at at 800sq ft 2 bedroom 1 bath apartment/condo.


In all likelihood, a lot of these are probably owned by older people who are perhaps retired, and bought them back decades ago when they were more reasonably priced, and then opted to keep them and a good portion of the year in the southern states (like a lot of older people do).


While the "eat the rich" vigilantism is certainly a concern... another concern that I noted earlier is that in cities where there are squatters rights, lists like this could be problematic.

Basically "we've narrowed it down to the list of places were the owners are away more than half the year" presents a problem in a locale where a squatters starts having certain tenants rights after 30 days of occupancy.
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New GOP efforts to make it harder to vote

Now you're parroting conspiracy theories.
What conspiracy theory? The conspiracy theory is Dems are cheating lodged by the party that ironically won the House, the Senate, the Presidency, and control the SCOTUS, so we need federal legislation to curtail that non existent cheating. That's the conspiracy. The "can you just find me 11.780 votes" is not.
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A rose by any other name

The Republican state lawmaker who introduced a bill to categorize (Trump Derangement Syndrome) as a mental illness?

Well you'd NEVER guess what he's being charged with.

IT was for soliciting sex from a minor


That's he was charged with. He thought he was meeting up with a minor to have sex with them.
He was going to have sex with a minor. Eichorn, the 40 year old married father of 4, who feels the compulsion to legally attack people he disagrees with politically and compromise their lives forever, was pursuing a youth so that he could have sex with them.

But of course he's innocent until proven guilty. He only did it to undercover cops who have evidence and a papertrail....but....innocent until proven guilty....

of pursuing someone under eighteen for sex.
Unusual looking Somalian...he is from Minnesota...
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I believe that ALL who ever lived will be in God’s Kingdom

In case people haven’t noticed, seeking the Kingdom requires progression. What was required of A&E led to progression yet mankind regressed. What was required of Noah led to progression yet mankind regressed. What was required at Babel led to progression yet mankind regressed. What was required of Abram led to progression yet people regressed. What was required after Moses led to progression yet people regressed. What was required after Jesus and His Gospel of the Kingdom which He said was the only reason He was sent, led to progression but here to people quickly regressed back into issues that they deemed more worthy. Jesus said progression would only come to the end if the Kingdom alone was taught throughout the world. Yet still the people regress.
Regress to do what Jesus said mankind should live by Mat4:4 and progress to what everyone else is doing that Jesus condemned Isa29:13 Mat15:3-14 Mark7:7-13. You keep saying to do God's will, but when shown God's will that He both wrote and spoke Exo31:18 Psa 40:8 you argue against it for some reason. I think we should focus on more of what Scripture and God actually says, less on our own reasoning. But we have free will.

I will agree to disagree.
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“For All” or “For Many”? Clearing Up the Controversy

To understand the controversy, we must first understand the source. The words of consecration at Mass are taken from the words of Jesus at the Last Supper, as recorded in Scripture. Both Matthew 26:28 and Mark 14:24 record Jesus saying that His Blood is “poured out for many.”

Martha’s Trust: What Humiliation Teaches Us About Humility

When Jesus arrived, he found that Lazarus had already been in the tomb for four days. (Jn. 11:17)
The first time we are introduced to the character Martha in the Gospels, Scripture paints a rather ugly portrait of a woman disgruntled by her sister Mary’s failure to help in the kitchen, seemingly envious of the attention Mary receives from their treasure dinner guest, the Lord Jesus Christ. But the next time we encounter Martha, we are shown a quite different side to her. In this next scene, her brother Lazarus has died.

Disputed doctrine.

Nonsense. A mainstream Christian that loves the Lord is not unworthy to receive communion. Open communion churches like mine also have the same scripture. Haven’t seen one keel over yet.

I can appreciate arguments both in favor of Open Communion, and arguments in favor of Closed Communion.

As a Lutheran I have been part of churches which have been on opposite sides of this issue. Though I am, presently, a member of a church which practices Closed Communion.

In defense of Closed Communion, the central position isn't to deny other Christians that they are, indeed, Christians. Every Christian is a Christian by virtue of their faith in Christ and their baptism. All who are baptized are, indeed, the property of Jesus Christ; all who believe in Him belong to Him. The matter of Closed Communion, however, is ultimately about a couple matters (Everything that follows will be from an explicitly Lutheran perspective):

1. Confession. When we come to the Table of the Lord we are giving our "Amen" to a shared belief, we are con (together) fessing (declaring) that this is, indeed, the true body and blood of Jesus Christ which was broken and shed for us. The Table is where the Church proclaims her unity of faith--if we are not, indeed, in a state of unity of faith, then there is a sense in which we are betraying what the Table signifies; and if we are not confessing that this is the true body and true blood of Jesus then we are betraying the Table itself--for it is, indeed, the true body and true blood of Jesus Christ.

1b. Counter Argument: Since the Table is the true body and true blood of Jesus Christ, then when one partakes of the Table they receive the true body and true blood of Jesus, even if one does not recognize it; it remains the precious Means of Grace by which Christ offers Himself, and the forgiveness of our sins, and God's mercy remains delivered through the Means because the Means of Grace depends not on man's ability or intellect, but on God's word and promise. Since it is the Table of Christ, not the Church's Table, then Christ is Lord over His Table and whosoever partakes in this bread and partakes in this wine partakes of the body and blood of Christ which He freely offers. In the same way that, though an infant may not comprehend intellectually what happens in the precious gift of Baptism, but receives grace freely according to the word and promise of God; so does one who partakes of the Table receive freely what is freely offered. So that even though there is failure in understanding, there cannot be failure with God and His word.

2. There is the spiritual danger of not properly discerning the body (and blood) of the Lord in the Table and therefore one who comes to the Table not discerning Christ's own body, is (as the Apostle writes to the Corinthians) actually eating and drinking to their own destruction. Therefore while the Table is Christ's, and the Church is not master over the Table and only Christ is, the Church still have a responsibility to properly administer the Table--a servant must serve faithfully, a steward must steward properly. And Christ has entrusted His Table to His Church. Therefore the Church bears the weight of responsibility to administer the Sacrament rightly--and one of the ways she administers the Sacrament rightly is by insisting on a shared confession of faith; and that when the Church assembles around the Table, she is Confessing her Lord and Master; and that this is indeed His Table, His body, His blood, and that here therein is the forgiveness of sins and the mighty grace of God. For the Sacraments are, by God's word and command, about the strengthening and edifying of faith--and should the Church administer the Sacrament in such a way that injures faith rather than strengthens faith, then the Church becomes an unfaithful steward of the Lord's Table.

2b. Counter Argument: The Church, indeed, does bear the responsibility of steward and servant, being entrusted by the Lord His own Table. However, the eating and drinking to one's own destruction is not merely the failure to have a correct theological understanding of the Table; but is treated by the Apostle to the Corinthians as treating the Lord's Table flippantly--as he writes that many came eating and drinking to the point of some getting drunk even before everyone had come together. The proper stewardship of the Table, then, consists not in denying the Table to brothers and sisters who may lack a correct understanding of it; but in not mishandling the Table in such a way that it dishonors the Lord's body and blood, such as by treating the Table as though it were merely a ritual of no particular significance. Or by, in our assembly, treating the Lord's Table as though it were a common table (or worse, to treat the Lord's Table worse than we would even our own common dinner table).

2c. Counter to the Counter: It is precisely because of this danger of mishandling the Table that the Church must rightly insist that all who come to the Table know what the Table is: Of Whom they come before, for they come to the Table of the Lord, and it must be regarded with the utmost reverence. For when comes into the house of the king and sit at the king's table, one is obligated to regard the king as the king and the king's table as the king's table. For the Church to fail in that kind of stewardship would bring dishonor to the Lord, and dishonor His own body and blood. And it would invite dishonor; to treat the Table flippantly. If the Church treats the Lord's Table as though it were a common table, then all who approach the Table would view the Lord's Table as though it were common, and not the Lord's. The Church therefore bears responsibility to insist that the Table be honored and revered, for what is received is not mere ordinary bread and wine; but indeed the precious and holy and true body and blood of Jesus Christ, and the forgiveness of sins.

Addendum: I feel like I could continue presenting arguments and counter arguments (and counter-counter arguments). But I think, at the end of the day the real issue is this: If the Eucharist is, indeed, the Lord's body and blood (and not merely a memorial of His body and blood), then that radically changes how the Table is to be administered, viewed, and approached.

To that end, while I appreciate arguments from both sides. I do think, ultimately, the case for Closed Communion is strongest. Not treating the Sacrament like some fancy Hollywood VIP party; the point is not to say, "You lot over there aren't good enough for our party". Instead, it's about recognizing the Sacrament as, indeed, Christ's precious Table. The Table is closed, not because others are less Christian. The Table is closed because we should insist that all who come to the Table know that it is the Table of the Lord.
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The Dangerous Weapon of Contraception

God has left us from Paradise three things: the stars, the flowers and the eyes of a child…
That is a quote from a 1908 book titled The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass by Nicholas Guir. The author wrote that flowers have a place entirely their own in God’s creation:

In the splendor of their colors, in their fragrance, they are revelations of the beauty and goodness of God, emblems of His benevolence, images of His first, true designs.
So, God left us three things from Paradise. G.K. Chesterton wrote that Christ promised three things to His disciples—that they would be completely fearless, absurdly happy, and in constant trouble. Chesterton, who died in 1936, knew how to deliver the truth with humor; he was good humored and kind, even when dealing with opposition. He only held contempt for one class of people: those who pushed birth control, which he observed “does not control any birth. It only makes sure there is no birth to control.”

Kneelers for Josephine

A boy came and knelt beside me, one of my good friend’s young sons. I asked him if he knew whom the kneelers in that church were in honor of. He didn’t. So I told him.

“These are the kneelers for Josephine.”

To understand why, you have to go back to when she was still alive, and still sick, and still trying to kneel.

Have you got personal opinions and private interpretations of the holy scriptures for which you feel pride?

Forgive me, but that was not my position.

My position, if you re-read my reply, is that:

  1. There were more than seven churches in the ancient world.
  2. That does not mean that the problems faced by the seven churches addressed in Refvelation are not relevant even now.
  3. On the contrary they are.
  4. I then proceeded to list specific examples of how the problems they faced, such as sexual perversion (specifically I referenced the Nicolaitan heresy) and lukewarm-ness are extremely urgent in many denominations.



If a spirit made the accusation that I had said the warnings to the seven churches in Revelation were not relevant to churches today, then it was a demon that was lying to you.

Nonetheless, the fact you are experiencing this is a particular cross to bear, and I do respect you test them; I am thankful to not have had to deal with that personally.

What you are missing is that all our problems come from not listening to the Lord!!!! And that includes all the problems in churches.

So when I pointed out that all seven churches is Revelation were keeping people from hearing from the Lord, you wanted to express that was not relevant to the other churches and their problems also!! So you wanted to point out different issues without making the connection! You completely failed to connect the issue we have as people, and that is the issue that Adam and Eve had, which was not listening to the Lord.

Now you wanted to turn to the problem of 'sexual perversion'. Why causes that problem, and even in churches???

What causes it is not listening to the Lord. When Adam and Eve didn't listen to the Lord suddenly they realize they were naked! So don't you see that you are missing the connection and importance of each of us connecting to and listening to the Lord personally??? The sexual perversion is not the specific problem, not listening to Him personally is the specific problem, or do you really think He won't bring that up and try to help you when you actually talk to Him? So the "sexual perversion" which you want to label as some type of "Nicolaitan heresy" is an indication that people don't listen to Him, and that from the churches (all of them in one way or another) keeping people from listening to the Lord instead of encouraging them to listen to the Lord.

You completely missed the relevance of what is pointed out in all seven churches being written to having the same problem. They, the seven churches, represent all the churches, having the same main problem!! You played it off as that being a different problem from others at the time. Each of the seven churches, had their own problems, but even then they kind of represented the types of churches, but they also all had the same single issue of not seeking the voice of the Lord and keeping others in their church from seeking Him!

For example:

Rev 2:14 ‘But I have a few things against you, because you have there some who hold the teaching of Balaam, who kept teaching Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit acts of immorality.

That was a problem that the church in Pergamum had. It is the problem of sexual perversion or acts of immorality. Yet that was not being pointed out to the church from those inside the church so the reproof "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." (Rev 2:17) was also given to them. The Lord will point out the issues and reprove us, if we are will to accept it, but we are not willing to listen to Him because we don't want to hear the reproof!!! That is why each of the churches had the same problem, and all seven of seven is not just those seven churches!!!!

WE DON'T KEEP THE COMMANDMENT "HEAR O' ISRAEL"!!

Ps 81:11 “But My people did not listen to My voice,
And Israel did not obey Me.

That still applies to His people today!! Yeah, we have forgiveness of sins, but all sins come from not listening to Him!! We don't listen to Him like we should, and we in various ways keep others in all our churches from listening to Him also!!! That is what the seven churches represented, so do we look to ourselves and our church to figure out how we are getting this wrong????

No, we usually look to others and their faults instead of us and our faults!!!

Yet we are commanded to "preach The Word", but instead of turning people to Jesus Christ as "The Word" so listen to Him, we tell them The Bible is The Word of God, and present ourselves as the experts and they are in some type of heresy. Have we not even read:

1 Jn 1: 8 & 9 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

So let me be clear. I confess that I only hear from Him about a dozen different times a day!! When I tell some people that they think I am boasting, but I personally realize that is terrible. He is with me all day, so all day I should be talking back and forth with Him, and the important part of talking back and forth is the hearing from Him!! Yet because I do hear from HIm on those days called "Today", and least this verse is not the big problem for me:

Heb 3:7,8 Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says,
“TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,
DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME,
AS IN THE DAY OF TRIAL IN THE WILDERNESS,

And from listening to Him, He wants me to preach Him as The Word of God for the purpose expressed in the following verse:

Heb 3:13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called “Today,” so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.

Which is, whether you realize is or not, is exactly what and why I have been writing to you all along! Don't brush off the similar message sent to all the churches, because all the churches have that problem!! It stops the reproof the Lord has for us, and He reproves those He loves! And the reproof, if you care to believe, is about hearing Him by faith. That is the one thing needed!

Rev 3:19,20 ‘Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent.
‘Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

Luke 10:42 “But one thing is needed, and Mary has chosen that good part, which will not be taken away from her.”

Gal 3:2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

The OP goes over "private interpretations", and that mean personally listening to the Lord our God!! So I like the OP, even if I think it didn't go far enough and suggested that was for meditation at home. We need Him for all the things in our lives, from our marriages, our jobs, our relationships, our kids sports, what to eat, maybe what clothes to wear, where to go and when, and ways to improve our churches! Oh - and let us not forgive our sex lives and possible "sexual perversion"? We wouldn't want any "heresy" going on, right? Or is that just for the other person?

I need to listen to Him more, so He has me preach The Word of God to mean we need to listen to Him, so I don't forget it. Doing that encourages me and others to hear from Him Today, though 'some' don't like that encouragement. And that 'some', sometimes includes me!
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Israel-Hamas Thread II

Now here's some Lebensraum.

Thai minister rejects ‘Israeli territory’ claim during Phuket inspection


Thai officials inspecting the Chabad House in Patong, Phuket, were met with an unusual exchange on July 23 when a man allegedly claimed the premises were “Israeli territory“.


Your assumption is based on a flawed premise. The incident in Thailand is real, but it in no way serves as evidence of Israeli territorial claims. A Chabad House is a religious community center, not a government embassy or military outpost. To claim that a single, unidentified person asking a strange question during a commercial license audit is proof of Israeli territorial expansion is logical fallacy. No official representative of the State of Israel has ever claimed territory in Thailand or Turkey. Please stick to verifiable state actions and international law instead of misinterpreting a local business audit as a global conspiracy. Following this absurd line of reasoning, every Israeli flag flown on a building in the US would be an official territorial claim. So the case remains closed.
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SDA: Discuss this Scholarly Article: The Quest for a Biblical Trinity: Ellen White’s “Heavenly Trio” Compared to the Traditional Doctrine

The Trinity is defined by the Bible, not creeds,

CF allows you to agree with concepts in the creed without holding to the notion that you think the process of bringing it about through a council was directed by God.

Since Scripture is stated to be "God-breathed" then we can safely say it is the standard to test against

Now as Adventists have spelled out their belief in the Trinity, based on biblical passages, how would you understand the "unity" of the "three"?

The Trinity​
There is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three coeternal Persons. God is immortal, all-powerful, all-knowing, above all, and ever present. He is infinite and beyond human comprehension, yet known through His self-revelation. God, who is love, is forever worthy of worship, adoration, and service by the whole creation. (Gen. 1:26; Deut. 6:4; Isa. 6:8;​
Matt. 28:19; John 3:16 2 Cor. 1:21, 22; 13:14; Eph. 4:4-6; 1 Peter 1:2.)​
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Democratic candidates: You be the judge.

Oh, obviously they aren't consolidating power into those things, because they're not in power.

But when they were? Yes, they were absolutely consolidating power into the presidency and the person occupying it. The United States has been on a presidential power ramp for quite a while now, but it really accelerated with Obama, well exemplified by his famous "pen and phone" comment. Trump built off of that and went further, Biden went further than that, and then Trump came back and went further than his prior term and Biden. There's a good chance this trend will continue, and soon enough we'll find ourselves thinking "can we dial back presidential power to the more restrained behavior of Trump's second term?"

It's why I think, despite them having suggested a number of crazy things, the Democratic Socialists of America are correct in that the President should be chosen by the legislature (again, this was the idea James Madison proposed). Not that it's likely to happen, the constitution is notoriously hard to amend, but it would immediately solve a lot of problems of presidential power.
I think we're talking about two different things - there has been a cross-partisan move towards making presidential power supreme over the other two branches for as long as I can remember, but that's not what I was talking about. Trump has been consolidating power into an increasingly smaller group. For instance, Obama cabinet members held one post at a time. Biden cabinet members would occasionally be both deputy and acting secretary or directory position. Trump however has commonly appointed people to dual/multiple high level roles such as Rubio serving simultaneously as Secretary of State, Director of National Security, acting National Archivist, and interim head of USAID. Trump has also fired independent boards established by Congress and replaced them with loyalists - something not done by previous administrations for a long time. The nepotism is also extraordinary - putting his son-in-law in charge of sensitive negotiations in which he has a financial stake, appointing his father-in-law to a cushy ambassadorship, etc.
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Three elements of faith. Tribal, convinced, growing

It could be any one of the three. What is the Spirit of God leading you to do? 1)Sit tight in what you believe? 2)Confidently stand for what you believe while seeking to understand more? 3)Don't settle for ppat answers. Keep following the Spirit into new understanding.
Stop trying to be obedient to what man says and allow God's Holy Spirit free reign over my spirit. Trust only God.
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