o_mlly said:

• Are all the scientific experts in agreement?

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Yes.

o_mlly said:

• Are there better alternative theories based on all observations?

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No.

A good example of transitional fossil, as noted before, would be something like tiktaalik:

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Aside from the theory of evolution, there is no other scientific theory that accounts for the fossil succession. And some 99% of experts are in agreement on this.

John Bauer said:

The question isn’t hard because the question is premature. Your moral conclusion assumes facts not yet demonstrated—namely, that the use of force was unjust under the relevant standards and that Pretti posed no continuing threat. Moral judgment requires truthful description, not incomplete narrative framing.

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"Continuing threat" is too vague a standard for the use of deadly force. Threat to whom? Merely a threat to "Law and order" isn't a good enough reason to kill a man.

Apple Sky said:

There isn't one single "founder" of NASA, but Wernher von Braun is arguably the most pivotal figure, leading the German V-2 rocket team brought to the U.S. (via Operation Paperclip) and becoming Director of NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center, spearheading the Saturn V and the Moon landing.

NASA itself was established by President Dwight D. Eisenhower through the National Aeronautics and Space Act in 1958, absorbing the existing National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics (NACA) and incorporating von Braun's Army team and the JPL.

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Again you post a quote without referencing the source.

Nevertheless none of your post answers mine. He was not a founder of NASA and neither NASA nor rockets are inherently evil or satanic because of Von Braun's association.

You're just posting random information without answering for your accusations.

In fact, (and @Jerry N. has already alluded to this) by your thinking, both Ford and Volkswagen cars are inherently evil and satanic because of Henry Ford and Hitler.

BNR32FAN said:

I dunno, you’d have to ask those people who are blaming them.

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Well, I'm going to admit that Boomers do still have a significant effect today.

You know, don't you, that 40% of Boomers haven't even reached full Social Security age yet. They're still in the workforce.

Sixty percent of the Senate and 40% of the House are Boomers or older.

Those people are still affecting society with whatever prejudices they've dragged from childhood, and not always consciously.

And that's pretending they infected none of their children with their prejudices.

FreeinChrist said:

One way of trying to make Pretti guilty of his own murder. Fox goes as low as Trump.

There was no excuse to shoot an unarmed man who was lying on the ground in the back. None.

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Their message is, "Pretti deserved to be killed, so however he got killed is okay."

stevevw said:

You keep injecting this unreal and contrary thinking into the situation like its a reality. Its not. The most obvious and normal and logical conclusion is that people don't think of contradictory ideas like that when their entire actions and body language is related to the kind of thinking that grabs for a gun.

His actions and body language was not like a person who is relaxed and just casually checking his gun. Its unreal spectulation. It has absolutely no evidence. You may as well say he was imagining cudling the officers. His body language was nothing like this.

Why when its the most obvious and reasonable conclusion. Its not without good support. It will be the officers defense. Why is mentioning the officers defense that will be a real defense in court is a problem.

Your trying to undermine that by injecting unreal possibilities. Like they some how have equal support. They don't. They can show Pretti's thinking by his prior preparation, agitation, being willing to agitate with a loaded gun and refusing to hand over his gun when asked. He wanted to keep it.

He was fighting officers. He was displaying the actions of someone resisting who is more likely to use a gun. People who resist are more likely to use deadly force as part of resisting.

Which is based on what they thought he was intending and thinking. They cannot be seperated. In fact this is the key defense. Showing Pretti intended to use his gun. There has to be intent. This is key in any crime. Motive and intent.

What about the Ai summary is wrong. It all seems decent and common sense. Why would any law allow a person to carry a loaded gun into a crime scene. Especially one that was arresting a criminal.

The officers already have a tense situation which could escalate. Why allow more armed people into the operation. They are to remain on the sideline.

Except it was not a "protest, parade, demonstration, or other public event,". It was a law enforcement operation.

Even so like I said there are certain extra responsibilities for the gun carrier even at a protest. But especially at a protest of a law enforcement operation. Which is borderline illegal fullstop. You don;ty seem to understand that this is the same as people protesting police trying to arrest a criminal. That is just crazy. Since when do we think its ok for protesterswith guns to impede police trying to get the bad guys.

A gun carrier cannot enage with the operation. Has to be on best behaviour and actually help maintain the peace. Because they have a higher responsibility carrying a gun. Pretti was agitating so his rights as a gun carrier are lost and he is no longer a peaceful protestor but an agitator impeding law enforcement.


Minn. Stat. § 624.714, gun permit holders have specific obligations during interactions with law enforcement, and general statutes regarding obstruction apply to all citizens, including those carrying firearms.

Sec. 624.714 MN Statutes

www.revisor.mn.gov

2025 Minnesota Statutes
609.50 OBSTRUCTING LEGAL PROCESS, ARREST, OR FIREFIGHTING.
Subdivision 1.Crime.
Whoever intentionally does any of the following may be sentenced as provided in subdivision 2:
(1) obstructs, hinders, or prevents the lawful execution of any legal process, civil or criminal, or apprehension of another on a charge or conviction of a criminal offense;
(2) obstructs, resists, or interferes with a peace officer while the officer is engaged in the performance of official duties;

Sec. 609.50 MN Statutes

www.revisor.mn.gov

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Pretti lost his rights as an outwardly displaying
Agitator, thats why those Officials werent guessing his thoughts, they watched his behavior long before any shot was fired, not
To mention that when these Officials feel
Threatened for their lives the law is on their
Side, rightfully so, thats why their motive
Came from all Pretti showed them beforehand, that was a motive putting them on high alert,
And Pretti was not any peaceful protester, so
These prior activities of Pretti were indeed
A threat, and their training to being put on
High Alert was not imagined, and they will
Not loose in Any Court, it was easily seen
Via Camera that this Suspect was a threat,
Arriving to the scene with Rage, not in any
Imaginery way, and for those who think
Officials merely assumed better go watch
The videos again.

Hentenza said:

And the expectation is that sinners will repent of their sin.

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But there should definitively be the expectation for new sinners coming into the church that they will be immediately affirmed with compassion as human beings first, and then encouraged, directed, and supported in reorienting their lives and minds away from the 'form' of this world and instead toward Jesus Christ.

If they have a safe space in which to 'repent,' then they might do so.

I know one thing though: when I first began engaging Christianity and read the New Testament for the first time, it wasn't the Southern Baptist Church I began attending at the invitation of a few friends who 'made it possible' to come to Christ. If anything, I often felt out of place there and it was ever and only Christ and His Words that 'made it possible.' Otherwise, I'd still be a piece of driftwood in the culture. I've had enough to put up with my life already than to add to those pressures loud mouthed, so-called 'tough love' Christians.

Frankly, I don't put up with Christians anywhere in any shape or form who come at me with so-called "tough love." They can pan it. And I'm sorry to have to say it like that. I only respond to encouragement and will 'put up with' sound doctrine given through honest and compassionately tempered exhortation. Anything less will only serve to aggravate me.

In relation to this thread, and for anyone who is interested in giving it a listen, I suggest this not too lengthy video by John Ortberg addressing how some Christians (although obviously not all of us) can be 'mean'............

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Team leader

The Barbarian said:

Actually, it's more worrisome than if Trump actually posted that himself. Which I suspect he did. In his present confused state, it seems he just never realized that so many people would find it offensive.

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That Trump is up most of the night rage posting indicates to me that he has dementia. HIs repeated claims that he aced the cognitive test indicates to me that he has dementia. His failures to see things offensive that are offensive indicates to me he has dementia.

Is he young?

Mercy Shown said:

The beauty is that God does the writing.

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Amen, but than why should we not focus on what God is writing on our hearts and minds?

Mercy Shown said:

It is not just that they don't but they can't. They have no ability to do so. Paul is not contrasting two ways of becoming righteous in Romans 8, but two realms of existence—in Adam and in Christ. Romans 8:1 does not describe people who have successfully subjected themselves to the law, but people who are “in Christ Jesus.” The absence of condemnation flows from union with Christ, not from law-keeping. This is crucial because Paul has already spent Romans 3–7 arguing at length that righteousness cannot come through the law at all (Rom 3:20; 3:28; 4:5; 7:4).

When Paul says in Romans 8:7–8 that “the mind set on the flesh does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot,” he is not describing regenerate believers who are failing at obedience, but the unregenerate state itself. The inability to submit to the law is not a moral shortcoming that disqualifies someone from Christ; it is the very reason they need Christ. In other words, Paul is not saying, “Submit to the law so that you may be in Christ,” but rather, “Those who are not in Christ remain in the flesh and therefore cannot submit to the law.”

The decisive contrast is not between obedient Christians and disobedient Christians, but between flesh and Spirit. Those who are “in the flesh” cannot please God (Rom 8:8), yet Paul immediately reassures his readers: “You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you” (Rom 8:9). That is grace language, not moralistic warning. Their status is established by God’s action, not their performance.

Obedience does appear in Romans 8, but always as fruit, never foundation. The righteous requirement of the law is “fulfilled in us” not by us (Rom 8:4), and only as we walk according to the Spirit given freely through Christ. Paul is guarding righteousness by grace, not undermining it.

Paul, Jesus, and John are not presenting obedience to God’s law as the means by which we become righteous, but as the evidence of a relationship already established by grace. Romans 6 shows that slavery to sin leads to death and slavery to righteousness leads to life, yet Paul is careful to say that eternal life is the gift of God, not the wages of obedience. Jesus’ words, “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments,” describe the fruit of love given and sustained by the Spirit, not a condition for being accepted, which Hebrews 8 confirms by showing that God Himself writes the law on the heart under the new covenant. Warnings like 1 John 2:4 and Matthew 7:21–23 are aimed at false profession, not sincere believers who struggle; those rejected appeal to their works, not to Christ knowing them. Obedience matters deeply, but it flows from being in Christ and known by Him—it does not establish that standing.

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I disagree, I beleive Paul is contrasting someone who refuses to subject themselves to God's laws i.e. we can lay aside the commandment of God Mat15:3-14 Mark7:7-13 as to say no Lord that commandment is not for me, verses someone who is subjecting themselves to His Spirit and walking in faith which does not void the law of God Rom3:31. There is a difference between stumbling and getting up seeking His help in overcoming than flat out rejecting one of God's commandments, regardless which one it is. No?

Mercy Shown said:

Lastly, if you are a Seventh-day Adventist this discussion falls short of addressing the impact of believing that one's salvation in the end depends on the keeping of the law. The eschatology of this group places the law and particularly the 4th commandment as the seal of God and sunday keeping as the "mark of the beast" whereas a lot of Christians believe that the Holy Spirit is the seal of God. So, I can understand how this doctrine would place the law as a dominant factor in salvation for this denomination. I too would be afraid for my salvation under these circumstances.

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I don't recall any SDA ever teaching that salvation is by law-keeping. This is a misconception of what people think we teach and not an actual teaching of the Adventist church. We believe our salvation is based on grace through faith. Faith is not disobedience to what God asks. You can read this in Hebrews 11. We are saved by grace because all has sinned, through faith, the action part is what proves if our faith is genuine. Do you beleive someone with faith will obey God or disobey God? Was it fair for Adam and Eve to be kicked out of the Garden of Eden and lost the tree of life and died because they disobeyed God? Do you think there is any difference between Adam and Eve eating from the one tree God told them not to, than us not keeping the one day God told us to keep holy Exo20:8-11, but instead man decided to keep another day in its place, instead of the day that came with the power of God's blessing and sanctification? Do you not see any differences here? Jesus taught false worship is keeping man-made traditions over obedience to the commandments of God. The end time is over worship. Worship is not just devotion according to Jesus, its who we obey- God or man. Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 I think people have convinced themselves that Jesus loves us more than every single person who came before us who disobeyed that never worked out for them, including breaking the Sabbath commandment Eze20:15-16. God never gave us His commandments to punish us, but because He knows what man needs and obedience through faith and love shows we trust in God and what He asks, Disobedience to God no matter how we want to dress it up, is sin, rebellion and unbelief. Heb3:7-13 Sadly most churches teach we can openly disobey God or edit His divine commandments He explicitly said not to Deut4:2 Pro30:6 Ecc3:14 Mat5:18-19 Rev22:18-19 and can be saved in our sins. Heb10:26-30 This is the same lie that deceived our first parents, that we can disobey God and live.

Many citizens don't have access to documentary proof of citzenship.

"Kansas offers a case study of how a documentary proof requirement would likely play out in practice. Before the law took effect, noncitizen registration in Kansas was exceedingly rare, accounting for about 0.002% of registered voters. After adoption, the documentary proof of citizenship requirement prevented roughly 31,000 eligible citizens, or 12% of all applicants, from registering to vote. In short, the law prevented far more citizens from registering to vote than noncitizens."

It may still be asked, “why did Jesus go specifically into the Jordan river to be water baptized by John, and is there any more we can understand about this from the Old Testament?.
Jesus was fulfilling an Old Testament type when he was baptized into the Jordan river, and this was a deep spiritual truth that he was revealing.
In the book of Joshua we see the type that Jesus fulfilled when he was baptised in the Jordan river. The Jordan river crossing speaks to us of Christ death and resurrection and our union with him and in this and into the new land.

“And Joshua rose early in the morning; and they removed from [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]tim, and came to Jordan, he and all the children of Israel, and lodged there before they passed over. 2 And it came to pass after three days, that the officers went through the host; 3 And they commanded the people, saying, When ye see the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, and the priests the Levites bearing it, then ye shall remove from your place, and go after it. “ (Joshua 3:1-3)

As they come to the Jordan river the ark of God goes first before them. This ark is a type of Jesus Christ and how we are to follow after him. The ark was made of wood and overlayed with gold. The materials typify the humanity of Jesus (the wood) and his divinity. (the gold). And the priest bearing it up are symbolic of the priesthood of believers and Christ as our head and we bear him before the world.
Notice also that it was “three days”, typifying Jesus resurrection after three days.

"4 Yet there shall be a space between you and it, about two thousand cubits by measure: come not near unto it, that ye may know the way by which ye must go: for ye have not passed this way heretofore. “

This space between them and the ark, may figure how far away we are from that crossing over and only the Lord can do this for us. We have not gone this way before. This is the Lords doing and mighty to save.

“And Joshua said unto the people, Sanctify yourselves: for to morrow the LORD will do wonders among you. 6 And Joshua spake unto the priests, saying, Take up the ark of the covenant, and pass over before the people. And they took up the ark of the covenant, and went before the people. 7 And the LORD said unto Joshua, This day will I begin to magnify thee in the sight of all Israel, that they may know that, as I was with Moses, so I will be with thee.”

Jesus was manifested to all Israel at His baptism John 1:31) and this was in the Jordan river. This is similar to the language in Joshua, “This day will I begin to magnify thee in the sight of all Israel”.
God also said that as he was with Moses he would be with Joshua. This is telling and it would seem to join the two crossings together as one, one by Moses at the Red Sea nd the other by Joshua at the Jordan river. In Moses crossing we see the death of Christ on the cross without us and our standing still by faith, as Moses said “stand still and see the salvation of the Lord, and the Jordan crossing we see ark going before us and Joshua (a type of Christ going with us into the land to defeat the enemies). Typifying our death and resurrection with Christ and being risen with him to the newness of life and our entrance into the promised land.

8 And thou shalt command the priests that bear the ark of the covenant, saying, When ye are come to the brink of the water of Jordan, ye shall stand still in Jordan.... “

Again, this work is a work of the Lord we must stand still and not by our works, and then by faith we enter into the grace.

“Behold, the ark of the covenant of the Lord of all the earth passeth over before you into Jordan.... ...16 That the waters which came down from above stood and rose up upon an heap very far from the city Adam,.. And the priests that bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD stood firm on dry ground in the midst of Jordan, and all the Israelites passed over on dry ground, until all the people were passed clean over Jordan....

The word “Jordan”, means “a decender, the stream of Judgement”, and when we see the ark of the covenant (a type of Christ) and Joshua (another type of Christ) go through the Jordan river on dry land and rise up into the new land, we see a type of Jesus Christ death and resurrection. Jesus decended to death for us and rose again and we die with him and are burried with him and rise again with him into the new life and land of the kingdom of God in our hearts, for the kingdom of God is within us (Luke 17:21). In all this we see a deeper spiritual reality of our dying with Christ and rising with him and the inward work, this baptism is not a outward washing with water, but typifies a purifying of the heart and new life in Christ and death to self, judgement of our sin.
This aspect our our being crucified , burried and risen with him is seen in the twelve stones that are mentioned here, The twelves stones in the midst of the Jordan river signify our dying with Christ and the twelve stones taken up into the new land symbolize our being risen with him.

“... And command ye them, saying, Take you hence out of the midst of Jordan, out of the place where the priests’ feet stood firm, twelve stones, and ye shall carry them over with you, and leave them in the lodging place, where ye shall lodge this night.... And Joshua said unto them, Pass over before the ark of the LORD your God into the midst of Jordan, and take ye up every man of you a stone upon his shoulder, according unto the number of the tribes of the children of Israel: 6 That this may be a sign among you, that when your children ask their fathers in time to come, saying, What mean ye by these stones? 7 Then ye shall answer them, That the waters of Jordan were cut off before the ark of the covenant of the LORD; when it passed over Jordan, the waters of Jordan were cut off: and these stones shall be for a memorial unto the children of Israel for ever.” Joshua 3, and 4

There is a great deal of revelation in this section. Joshua teaches us a typology of Christ with his church in heavenly places “we are raised up with him to sit in heavenly places Ephesians 2:6.
So when Jesus was being baptized in the Jordan river we see him fulfilling this type of the ark and Joshua and the people going in through death and judgement to the old life and into the land to defeat all the enemies with Joshua. When we are baptize into Christ he comes into our hearts and defeats all the enemies also.
But much of this is lost in the understanding s of many today, who only see the water baptism of John and do not see beyond this and the typical meaning in the Jordan river..
So when The apostles water baptised at times, they may have been following Johns water baptism, that being close to them, and since they had done it before Christ died they continued in this also after his resurrection. Even though in the beginning of Acts Jesus said it was a past ministry Acts 1:5. This was to cease, and became like many things in the law that lingered in the new covenant and which they struggled with for many years, here are just a few references, Acts 10: (no Lord etc , Acts 15:1, ? Acts 21, Galatians 1 etc , Colossians , etc etc.
But water baptism belonged to the Old Covenant with John and had its fulfillment under the law. However many have zealously followed John in this despite the true and saving baptism, being an inward work and part of the “one baptism for today

Valletta said:

Under the Save America Act a person needs to establish their citizenship

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How is that done?

A new case before Europe’s human rights court could reopen a long-running fight over Christianity’s place in public life—this time inside Greece’s courtrooms.

For several years now, the European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR) has made the presence of Christian images and symbols in public spaces one of its recurring battles. After Italy was pressured through litigation to remove crucifixes from its schools, Greece is now being targeted over the presence of holy icons in its courts. Italy ultimately won its case. Will Greece succeed in safeguarding this essential part of its historical and spiritual heritage?

Some cases have a long life. In 2009, the ECtHR issued a ruling requiring Italy to remove crucifixes from public schools. The unprecedented mobilisation of twenty-one European states alongside Italy forced it to back down, and two years later, in 2011, in the case known as Lautsi v. Italy, it finally handed down a ruling in favour of Italy’s position, allowing it to keep its crucifixes.

The Lautsi case was followed by a period of relative calm in the fight against the presence of religious symbols (Christian, needless to say) in public spaces.

In 2020, a request was filed inviting the ECtHR to take up another contentious case: the presence of Orthodox icons in Greek courts.

The offensive came from an atheist association, the Union of Atheists of Greece. The first appeals were lodged in 2018 and 2019. The applicants requested the removal of Christian symbols displayed in the courtroom during hearings on religious matters. They argued that the presence of these icons was discriminatory, compromised the objectivity of the court, and violated their right to a fair trial, as well as their right to freedom of thought, conscience, and religion.

Continued below.

BNR32FAN said:

That’s typical from this particular person, she always posts these kinds of threads.

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Why "she"? But yes, this is typical.

FredVB said:

I did not find conflicting passages, or seemingly conflicting passages, for this. It is your interpretation that has some conflict. So the issue to resolve is yours. My understanding is completely consistent with it shown that God is love. God's care is not limited. Nothing of God is limited. That includes justice. So it is that Christ came, and Christ is the way, with repentant faith. It is what it is. God not being limited does have knowledge without limit, but our choices are not negated by God's unlimited knowledge.

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Sorry, the overwhelming amount of scripture devoted to the fact that salvation is not for all, vs. the few that speaks more to the nature of God’s heart rather than them being the deciding factor in salvation and outliers to the rest of God’s plan for salvation means that they are just as I claim. God wishes, because we are all God’s creation, that we could all come to salvation, but we are not all God’s children. And salvation is only for God’s children (the elect).

The Barbarian said:

Bottom line, if they exist, why haven't we heard from them? I mean, our presence is now detectable about 130 light-years from Earth. Which isn't much. But if some other beings achieved a moderate level of technology a few thousand years ago, we should be picking up their presence now.

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That's why I lean toward the belief that there isn't anyone there. There's no real logical basis for it, and if some-card-carrying aliens show up tomorrow in an intergalactic yacht, I won't be the first to say I was wrong (my anti-hogwash instincts will take some getting though, and there's no dearth of high-tech grifters who put on a really good show, and human gullibility is nearly infinite), but I could eventually be persuaded

The Barbarian said:

It seems arrogant to assume that we are unique, but unless other intelligent beings are very different than we are in terms of tools and activities, it seems to be the case that we are alone.

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I don't think it's arrogant. If someone tells me there are people living over in the Skunk Holler no one has ever seen, then I may doubt it. But if an entire mythology arises about the doings of those mysterious never-seen holler-dwellers, them I'm calling bravo sierra. If they show up at my door wanting to borrow a flashlight, cool, we're neighbors. Until then, for all intents and purposes they don't exist.

Next episode is still expected this week, perhaps as soon as tomorrow. No lava has been seen yet, but the magma is building up in the vent tubes with persistent surface glow. (The inflation measures are also now favorable.)

Here is a somewhat grainy image of a rainy, pre-sunrise look across the crater to the glowing vent openings.



You can see how high the vent openings are on the crater wall relative to the "floor". (The mound behind them to the left was built in this eruption.) They started not just on the current floor but about 60-80 m lower.

Get all students to install a keystroke logger for the time they are online.

NewLifeInChristJesus said:

If J. B. Stoney were alive today he could defend his point of view. But for me, it is hard to get past this obviously misinformed first paragraph.

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Hi NLIC, and thanks for your reply! It's my understanding that he is referring to reborn-newbies, which require much time to learn at the appreciation level of those who are mature in the Lord Jesus. There are many things to learn for the Christian, none at the outset have the maturity (but should desire maturity) they will have in the time it takes to learn maturity in Christ; which for the present even many in Christ are yet immature concerning the Word.

It takes all "babes-in-Christ" much time to mature, even though they presently have "all things that pertain unto life and godliness" and "all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ." As all who are mature, they just need to appropriate everything in time, if they want to mature. But many lack the desire for what it takes to become a mature Christian. Fortunately immaturity does effect one's salvation, just their growth in their faith! Salvation doesn't admit in degrees but faith does.

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