Landon Caeli said:

Not everyone in America believes political violence is wrong anymore, Bradskii. In fact, it is gradually becoming normalized, as murderer Luigi Mangione supporters are celebrating in the streets only days after the assassination of Charlie Kirk.

Today:
<Edit> video link deleted, because stupid potty mouthed girl.

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Yarddog said:

I guess they can throw out this guy being a far left liberal.

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SuperCow said:

does God decide who gets faith and when, and only then will I become faithful and want to serve him?

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Belk said:

Why? If the "fear of the lord" is a unifying factor I would expect it to present itself in the church.

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AV1611VET said:

How do they know that's not the case?

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timothyu said:

Or the other way around?

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BelieveItOarKnot said:

You should be thankful that the internal temptations are not you, but of our adversary, the tempter. One sided looks at just the person is never legit, scripturally. Most are falsely led to justify the entirety of themselves in Christ however that does not account for "all" of Jesus' Words to mankind or the person.

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BelieveItOarKnot said:

I'm thankful God is against the evil present, the tempter or his own within everyone, particularly myself, even though it is often unpleasant as in chastisements and tribulations

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Aryeh Jay said:

One thing I learned that will stave off hunger is go out and get a job.

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Oompa Loompa said:

Look somewhere else.

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keras said:

All of Ezekiel 40 to 48, is describing how the Lords Christian peoples will live in all of the Holy Land, under the New Covenant with God. They will build a new Temple and worship Jesus in it, making sacrifices and offerings as is clearly Written.
ALL before Jesus Returns for His Millennium reign.

Any objections to this scenario, are flat out denials of scripture.

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Semper-Fi said:

It matters a lot if Paul was in a vision/dream like the verse mentions, or if it was a physical event.

So do you not believe Paul later on when he penned a letter to Timothy in 1 Timothy 6 ?

..the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 who only hath immortality, dwelling in
the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see:
to whom be honour and power everlasting.

Paul would not have said this if he had already been physically to heaven, and seen God in person.

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Richard T said:

Great question and responses.

Here are a few of candidates for what "sound doctrine" can mean.

Hebrews 5:12-14 (KJV)
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Though not exactly sound doctrine itself, this scripture struck me as how there are different versions, and different deliveries from men teaching or preaching the word.

Mark 1:22 (KJV)
22 And they were astonished at his doctrine: for he taught them as one that had authority, and not as the scribes.

Here is Strong's definition of authority.
exousia
from <G1832> (exesti) (in the sense of ability); privilege, i.e. (subject) force, capacity, competency, freedom, or (object) mastery (concrete magistrate, superhuman, potentate, token of control), delegated influence :- authority, jurisdiction, liberty, power, right, strength.

Too often people teach and preach the word and it is not mixed with the heart and mind of God, but rather the dryness of theology or man's own meaning. Such doctrine can still be right but in addition to merely saying something, God (at least to many) still demonstrates the power of his Spirit. Good doctrine can be conveyed in a manner that is dynamic, influential, and demonstrates the power of God. Though this does not define sound doctrine it does help us to recognize when it is given. Of course, it has to align with the word and bear witness too.

1 Corinthians 2:3-5 (KJV)
3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Zodhiates word study shows that doctrine is associated with how something is taught as well as the content. Note too there are two different but similar words for doctrine in the bible.
"Essentially didaché is the same as didaskalía <G1319>, sometimes meaning the manner of teaching and sometimes the content of teaching. Both are used in the act. and pass. senses, i.e., the act of teaching and the content of what is taught. However, it is to be noted that the pass. sense is predominant in didaché and the act. sense in didaskalía. In didaché, we have incorporated the authority of that which is taught, and didaskalía predominates in the act or art of teaching. Didaché is used only twice in the Pastoral Epistles (2 Tim. 4:2; Titus 1:9) while didaskalía, with a stress on the art of teaching, occurs fifteen times."
Complete Word Study Dictionary,

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Tuur said:

That assumes someone automatically knows if a mystical experience is of God or not. Such is not always the case. Besides which, if we seek the mystical, are we seeking God or the experience?

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FireDragon76 said:

Yes, because if you had a genuine mystical encounter with God, it might lead you to reject the kind of flat, doctrinaire religion that John Piper preaches with so much certainty.

The blind leading the blind.

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Valletta said:

“This is transcending not only the youth generation, but also the older generations. This is a hit on our country. It is a hit on our movement. It is a hit on, you know, Christianity. It is a hit on religion. It is a hit on freedom.

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Hentenza said:

Communion and Catholic typical devotions we do not share. We fellowship, pray for each other, have joint programs for the poor, and other similar activities. The point of my post is that we treat each other as equal Christians part of the Body of Christ.

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concretecamper said:

Informed ears, ears that hear His Word.

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Hentenza said:

NM is just going to fall on deaf ears.

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Bradskii said:

Timeline of America's political violence dating back to 2011​

From here: MSN

If you think that ALL political violence is wrong, whichever side of the political fence you are, then just say so. Don't pick and choose. Don't comment on individual examples. Don't rate them or excuse them. Don't blame any one person or group. Just say that it's wrong. Please let's all get on the same page.

Jan. 8, 2011-- 6 killed, 13 others including then-Rep. Gabrielle Giffords wounded in Tucson shooting​

Six people were killed and 13 others wounded, including then-Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, during a constituent meeting outside a grocery store in Tucson, Arizona. Giffords, a Democrat, was shot in the head at point-blank range, critically injuring her, before the shooter unleashed a spray of bullets. Giffords survived the shooting.

June 14, 2017 -- Rep. Steve Scalise shot during congressional baseball game practice​

Four people were shot -- including then-House majority whip and Louisiana Republican Rep. Steve Scalise -- when a gunman opened fire on Republicans practicing for a congressional baseball game at Eugene Simpson Stadium Park in Alexandria, Virginia.

Oct. 8, 2020 -- 13 men arrested for plotting to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer​

Thirteen members of a militia group were arrested and charged for planning to storm the Michigan statehouse, kidnap Gov. Gretchen Whitmer and start a civil war.

Jan. 6, 2021 -- January 6 attack on the US Capitol, pipe bombs at RNC and DNC​

A mob of pro-Trump protestors stormed the U.S. Capitol as lawmakers met to ratify the results of the 2020 election on Jan. 6, 2021.

Feb. 14, 2022 -- Kentucky mayoral candidate targeted in attempted shooting​

While running for office, Louisville Mayor Craig Greenberg was the target of an attempted shooting at his campaign headquarters. No one was injured in the incident.

Oct. 28, 2022 -- Paul Pelosi attacked with hammer in his home​

Former Democratic Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi's husband, Paul Pelosi, was attacked with a hammer in their San Francisco home. David DePape was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole in a state trial over the attack. He had broken into the Pelosi home seeking to hold the then-speaker hostage.

Dec. 4, 2023 to Jan. 3, 2024 -- New Mexico state legislature candidate orchestrates shootings, murder for hire​

A New Mexico man who ran for the state legislature as a Republican and lost his bid is serving an 80 year prison sentence for allegedly orchestrating attacks at the homes of four Democratic lawmakers. No one was injured in his attempts.

June 13, 2024 -- 1st attempted assassination of Donald Trump​

Then-Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump was shot in the ear during a rally in Butler, Pennsylvania, after a gunman opened fire from the roof of a nearby building.

Sept. 15, 2024 -- 2nd attempted assassination of Donald Trump​

Trump faced a second assassination attempt at the Trump International Gold Club in West Palm Beach, Florida. Prosecutors said suspect Ryan Wesley Routh allegedly put together a plan, including purchasing a military-grade weapon, researching Trump's movements and using a dozen burner phones in an alleged attempt to kill Trump based on political grievances.

Oct. 6, 2024 -- Kamala Harris campaign office in Arizona shot at 3 times in a month​

An office shared by then-Vice President Kamala Harris' presidential campaign and the Democratic Party in Tempe, Arizona, was damaged by gunfire three times in less than a month, according to police.

Dec. 4, 2024 -- Murder of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson​

UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson died after being shot multiple times at point-blank range by a gunman outside a Manhattan hotel, according to police. The shooter appeared to have been lying in wait at the hotel where he shot Thompson, authorities said.

April 13, 2025 -- Arson at Pennsylvania Gov. Josh Shapiro's residence​

A mechanic who has expressed disdain for Democrats on social media was arrested for starting a fire at Democratic Pennsylvania Gov. Josh Shapiro's residence.

May 21, 2025 -- Killing of two Israeli embassy staffers in Washington, D.C.​

Two Israeli embassy staffers were shot and killed while exiting an event at the Capital Jewish Museum in Washington, D.C.

June 1, 2025 -- 13 people injured in Colorado firebombing attack, 1 later dies​

A man threw Molotov cocktails during a pro-Israel demonstration in Boulder, Colorado, injuring 13, authorities said. One person later died of their injuries.

June 14, 2025
-- Minnesota lawmaker shootings​

A masked gunman disguised as a police officer shot and killed Minnesota state Rep. Melissa Hortman and her husband Mark in their home, Gov. Tim Walz said.

Aug. 8, 2025 -- Shooting at CDC headquarters​

A police officer was killed when a gunman opened fire near the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) headquarters and the Emory University campus in Atlanta, authorities said. Suspect Patrick Joseph White had blamed the COVID-19 vaccine for making him sick and depressed, according to law enforcement. He had increasingly focused on the vaccine as a source of his grievances, they noted. He was found dead after the shooting, officials said.

Sept. 10, 2025 -- Shooting of Charlie Kirk​

Charlie Kirk, the founder of the conservative youth activist organization Turning Point USA, was fatally shot during an event at Utah Valley University on Wednesday. President Donald Trump confirmed Kirk’s death on social media.

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Gregory Thompson said:

The original sound doctrine that existed prior to the church becoming state religions stopped being practiced and thus no longer exists.

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JosephZ said:

I'm aware of everything you mentioned here, and you bringing these specific subjects up as an attempt to show that Islam teaches intolerance and violence proves that you didn't learn about Islam from the sources you mentioned earlier.


In very simple terms, Dar al Islam (House of Islam) historically was a Muslim land with a Muslim government where Islamic law governed. Dar al Harb (House of War) was a land not under an Islamic government or Islamic law, which was openly hostile towards Muslims. Since there are no countries that fit these definitions today, the terms are rarely used by Muslims, with the exception being primarily Islamic extremist groups to justify their actions.


Let's take a look at what the Qur'an says about taqiyya.

First off, the word taqiyya isn't found anywhere in the Qur'an, But here is the definition:

Takiya (taqiyyah, taqiyya); “The principle of dissimulation of one’s religious beliefs in order to avoid persecution or imminent harm, where no useful purpose would be served by publicly affirming them.”

That definition is very specific as to when a lie is permissible.

Below is the ONLY verse found in the Qur'an that mentions lying as being acceptable and even then it is better to choose death rather than to lie as the hadith below it states:

"As for anyone who denies God after having once attained to faith - and this, to be sure, does not apply to one who does it under duress, the while his heart remains true to his faith, but only, to him who willingly opens up his heart to a denial of the truth upon all such falls God's condemnation, and tremendous suffering awaits them" (Qur'an 16:106)

"There is a consensus that whomsoever is forced into apostasy and chooses death has a greater reward than a person who takes the license to deny one's faith under duress, but if a person is being forced to eat pork or drink wine, then they should do that instead of choosing death." (Sahih al-Bukhari)

This following hadith makes it clear that lying is forbidden:

"Avoid falsehood, for falsehood leads to wickedness, and wickedness to Hell; and if a man continues to speak falsehood and makes falsehood his object, he will be recorded in God's presence as a great liar. And adhere to the truth, for truth leads to good deeds, and good deeds lead to Paradise. If a man continues to speak the truth and makes truth his object, he will be recorded in God's presence as eminently truthful." (Sunan Abu Dawood vol. 3, no. 4971)

So as you can see a Muslim is only permitted to lie about one’s religious beliefs in order to avoid persecution, imminent harm or death. In all other cases lying is forbidden and will lead to condemnation.

The following hadith says it is one of the greatest of sins.

"Beware I inform you regarding the greatest of the mortal sins: Associating anything with Allah, disobeying parents and lying!" (Wasaelush Shia)

So based on the above, what do you thing the average Muslim's position would be on lying?



You can't take single verses from the Qur'an and apply them without including the surrounding verses and the historical and cultural context they were written in, as I mentioned earlier. The verses were revealed during specific battles that took place around 1400 years ago and are not applicable to Muslims living today. There's also not a single verse in the Qur'an that calls for the killing of non-Muslims simply for being non-Muslims. I'll provide a couple examples of what you would call "'slaughter the pagans' sort of verses" to show this below:

Qur'an 2:191: "And kill them wherever you find them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you... kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers."

The historical context behind Qur'an 2:191 and its surrounding verses came after the followers of Muhammad were forced to Migrate from Mecca to Medina due to persecution from the Meccan idolaters leaving everything behind in the process. These verses were instructions to Muhammad's followers telling them that it's permissible to fight back, not just to reclaim what they had lost, but to also insure that the Meccan idolaters could never oppress others in the future.

And fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not commit aggression; God does not love the aggressors.

And kill them wherever you find them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and persecution is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.

And if they cease, then indeed, God is Forgiving and Merciful.

Fight them until there is no more persecution and until worship is acknowledged to be for God . But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors. (Quran 2: 190–193)

These instructions were self-defensive and restrictive in nature and clearly don't advocate the killing of non-Muslims simply for the act of disbelief.


Qur'an 9:5: "kill the polytheists wherever you find them and take them prisoners, and beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush."

Verse 9:5 was also revealed to address particular groups of people and their relationship with the Muslims at that time. Qur'an 9 starts by saying "A declaration of immunity from God and His Messenger to the polytheists with whom you had made a treaty." This was addressed to Quraysh who broke the terms of treaty that was made between Muhammad, representing the state of Medina, and the Quraysh tribe in Mecca in March 628 AD.

The verse in Chapter 9 where it says "Once the sacred months have passed kill the polytheists wherever you find them" is referring to a very specific group of non-Muslims, the Quraysh which Muhammad had made a treaty with. It's not talking about all non-Muslims.

At the beginning of Chapter 9 we can see which polytheists are being talked about.

1. A declaration of immunity from God and His Messenger to the polytheists [the Quraysh] with whom you had made a treaty.

4. Except for those among the polytheists with whom you had made a treaty, and did not violate any of its terms, nor aided anyone against you. So fulfill the treaty with them to the end of its term. God loves the righteous.

As seen in these two verses, it's not talking about all polytheists. Since verse 4 says "Except for those among the polytheists with whom you had made a treaty, and did not violate any of its terms, nor aided anyone against you," then this automatically tells us that some of the polytheists have broken their treaties.

7. How can there be a treaty with the polytheists on the part of God and His Messenger, except for those with whom you made a treaty at the Sacred Mosque? As long as they are upright with you, be upright with them. God loves the pious.

8. How? Whenever they [the Quraysh] overcome you, they respect neither kinship nor treaty with you. They satisfy you with lip service, but their hearts refuse, and most of them are immoral.

10. Towards a believer they respect neither kinship nor treaty. These are the transgressors.

In the above verses we again see a distinction between polytheists, Those who upheld their treaties (Verse 7) and those who didn't respect their treaties (Verses 8 & 9). Those who didn't keep their treaties are the transgressors.

13. Will you not fight a people who violated their oaths, and planned to exile the Messenger, and initiated hostilities against you? Do you fear them? It is God you should fear, if you are believers.

The above question wouldn't have been asked had there not been polytheists who had already broken their treaty. So when you read verse 5:

When the Sacred Months have passed, kill the polytheists wherever you find them. And capture them, and besiege them, and lie in wait for them at every ambush. But if they repent, and perform the prayers, and pay the alms, then let them go their way. God is Most Forgiving, Most Merciful.

When it says "Once the sacred months have passed kill the polytheists wherever you find them," it's obvious that it's only talking about those who have already broken their treaties, the Quraysh, and not all polytheists.

When you take verse 5 out of context it sounds like a command to kill all non-Muslims:

9:5 kill the polytheists wherever you find them and take them prisoners, and beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush.

But with the added context, it's clear that it's not saying that at all. It also becomes clear that Qur'an 9:5 is not a command for Muslims living in 2025.



Simple math. In 2021, 580,000 people in the world died violently. This includes conflict deaths, intentional homicides, and killings during legal interventions. If every violent death in 2021 came at the hands of a Muslim, they would represent only 0.025% of the Muslim population. Also, if you add up all the members of ISIS, al Qaeda, Boko Haram, Hamas, Jemaah Islamiya, and even the lesser-known groups like Gama’a al-Islamiyya and Jaysh Rijal Al-Tariq Al-Naqshabandi from the US Department of State Country Reports on Terrorism 2023, there are less than 1,000,000 known Islamic terrorists in the world. Even if you double that number to 2,000,000 just to be sure every single terrorist is counted, like lone wolves, etc., it would only add up to 0.1% of the Muslim population. To reach 1%, there would need to be 20 million violent jihadists.

Using common sense, if less than 1% of the followers of Islam are engaging in violence, then this must not be what Islam teaches.


Where do you think it goes?


Based in The Financial Action Task Force (FATF) Comprehensive Update on Terrorist Financing Risks, most lone wolf actors are self funded. Large terrorist groups rely on a mix of state sponsorship, illegal activities, and donations, and smaller ones through criminal activities like kidnapping, piracy, and extortion. Private donations only account for between 10-30% of the funding and these donations mainly go to long established terror groups like Hamas.

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JosephZ said:

War and conflict are the primary factors.

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concretecamper said:

Correct. Never compromise truth for the sake of false unity.

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