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durangodawood · Jul 31, 2025

ThatRobGuy said:
There's actually quite a few direct conflicts/contradictions across a myriad of issues, but going down that rabbit hole would be a topic for the long-defunct "General Apologetics" sub-forum that hasn't been on here since 2014.

But the cherry picking I'm referring to is multi-layered.

It's not just the cherry picking that occurs on a single issue (which in this instance, would be the verses that imply being kind to immigrants from foreign lands versus the ones that imply that people should submit to a governing authority and its laws)

It's also the cherry picking that occurs with regards to whether or not the source material/book is even a valid basis for a moral argument in the first place.

For example: A person who is on the pro-undocumented immigrants' side will likely appeal to

Leviticus 19:33
When a stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself
(however, if they were to flip ahead to chapter 20, I'm guessing there's a verse in there that crowd wouldn't approve of very much, and certainly wouldn't want it used a basis for US law)

Or

1 Corinthians 12:13
For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles

Flip ahead a few pages to chapter 14 in the very same book and you get:
34 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says.
35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

And that latter form of cherry picking is especially unproductive because it comes across (quite obviously) as a "throwing it in Christians' faces that their political views are at odds with some verses in their book" critique, and typically is coming from a person who would call the book homophobic and misogynistic in other discussions for the content that's 2 pages away.

That's one reason why I, as an atheist, try my best to refrain from invoking biblical-based arguments against a religious person in the context of a political debate. I have no interest in making the bible a moral compass, nor do I believe most of what's in it, so why would I hang that over their heads as a basis for trying to convince them they're wrong about their position?

What seems reasonable about the Bible is that the moral evolution on display is irrevocable and generally positive. Its like a 2nd law of Biblical moraldynamics. Later softening basically overrides earlier brutality and theres no going back. So theres no necessary rational problem with quoting an early days instance of moral progress, even if other contemporary strictures are troubling - so long as they are softened later.

The big hang up for this is where Matthew has Jesus saying every jot and tittle of the old law is still in effect. But this brings up some truly irreconcilable conflicts, like just for basics: everything is now OK to eat vs its an abomination to eat this or that. So there's something broken here. Some people say this is old law remains stuff is just for Jewish culture and doesnt affect the prospects for a "gentile" soul.

Dan Perez · Jul 31, 2025

Fervent said:
Spirit is pneuma, not any form of baptize. The Greek word for baptize means submerse.

And in. Acts 1:5 reads , For. John indeed Baptized with water But you will be BAPTIZED / BAPTIZO , with WATER / HYDOR

But you will be BAPTIZED / BAPTIZO. , ( NO WATER / HYDOR HERE ). With Holy Spirit , not many of these days after .

And the Greek word BAPTIZED / BAPTIZO , is in. the Aorist Tense , inbbthe Active Voice , in the Indicative Mood ,

and the words , will be Baptized is in. the Greek Future Tense , in. the Passive Voice .

And. I believe that Baptism with Holy Spirit is VERY RIGHT ON. !

dan p

Apple Sky · Jul 31, 2025

tharkun73 said:
There are mulitple easily obtainable sources that show that they believed the sun travelled under the earth -

Links please.

Apple Sky · Jul 31, 2025

Phil G said:
More accusations without any critical thinking. Where is the Lord in your posts?

Take a look & see, Russianvids is man for God.

Take a look and see what Jaraisim or what ever you call him is all about, it's ugly........

The Final Experiment & The Fake Flat Earthers Exposed!

probinson · Jul 31, 2025

iluvatar5150 said:
And Tulsi Gabbard is still muddying those waters.

Perhaps, but it was the Democrats who first took the opportunity to intentionally muddy the waters in 2016. The word "interference" was bandied about with the word "stolen" and "illegitimate" by a willing and complicit media to get people to believe that Russia had tampered with vote tallies. And it worked. 67% of Democrats, 41% of Independents, and 17% of Republicans believed it was either "absolutely" or "probably" true that Russia tampered with vote tallies to get Trump elected.

JosephZ · Jul 31, 2025

Children are dying of starvation in Gaza.

Dozens of kids and adults in Gaza have starved to death in July as hunger surges

In greater numbers than ever, children hollowed up by hunger are overwhelming the Patient’s Friends Hospital, the main emergency center for malnourished kids in northern Gaza.

The deaths last weekend also marked a change: the first seen by the center in children who had no preexisting conditions.

iluvatar5150 · Jul 31, 2025

Valletta said:
The New York Times suppressed stories of the plight of the Jews before and during World War II.

And at one time, Donald Trump hadn’t cheated on each of his wives.

But things change.

iluvatar5150 · Jul 31, 2025

probinson said:
There is a vast difference between a Russian-sponsored social media campaign and vote tampering. Both of these are things are being equally classified as "interference" to muddy the waters.

And Tulsi Gabbard is still muddying those waters.

iluvatar5150 · Jul 31, 2025

Always in His Presence said:
So yes, i believe Comey did this on Obama's behalf and direction. Who else can lie to congress seven times - destroy or conceal evidence and not be charged?

Trump was elected a few months after that hearing, having run a platform of holding Hillary accountable. (“Lock her up!”, remember?)

What happened with that?

tharkun73 · Jul 31, 2025

Apple Sky said:
Where in the Bible does it state this ?

King James Bible
His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.

Your hyper-literalism is showing (again). Clearly things are hidden from the heat of the sun - or do you not believe in night, clouds, or winter?

We know from studies of ancient literature that the ANE worldview was one that does not align with what you claim to believe. The Bible was written from within and to the ANE culture. There are mulitple easily obtainable sources that show that they believed the sun travelled under the earth - contrary to what you believe. Scripture speaks of the sun rising and setting, not getting bigger and smaller which is what flat earth believes.

probinson · Jul 31, 2025

iluvatar5150 said:
Not one of you guys has done anything more than repeat back the claims of your propagandist media outlets.

Boy, ain't that ever the truth of this forum.

probinson · Jul 31, 2025

Say it aint so said:
The Bipartisan Senate investigation Fantine mentions:

View attachment 367896

The Mueller Report Fantine mentions:

View attachment 367897

There are factual reasons to believe it.

There is a vast difference between a Russian-sponsored social media campaign and vote tampering. Both of these are things are being equally classified as "interference" to muddy the waters.

So riddle me this: If no one was pushing the narrative that vote tallies had been tampered with, why did a poll at the time show that more than 2/3 of Democrats believed that vote tallies had been tampered with? Where do you suppose they got such an idea? Do you think 67% of Democrats just made that up? I'm genuinely curious why you think they thought that.

To me, it's pretty obvious. That's what Democrats and the mainstream media wanted them to think. So they whined and moaned all over to the willing media about the "stolen" election and called Trump "illegitimate" despite having no evidence whatsoever that was true. And they were happy to let their gullible voting base believe that votes had been tampered with in said "stolen" election. Only to incredulously claim, "Who, ME??!!!" when the voters swallowed the propaganda and believed the lie that vote tallies had been tampered with.

I'm curious to hear your alternative explanation as to how more than 2/3 of Democrats came to believe that Russia had tampered with vote tallies to get Trump elected.

DragonFox91 · Jul 31, 2025

Not everything that claims to be Christian is Christian. Just b/c the song is labeled a Christian song, it doesn't mean it's a Christian song.

Listen to the lyrics.

Some Christian artists have good lyrics & it sounds Christian
Some Christian artists have good lyrics but the song doesn't really sound Christian
Some Christian artists have bad lyrics & the song doesn't sound Christian

Pay more attention to the words then who the singer is. The singer is just a mouthpiece

iluvatar5150 · Jul 31, 2025

Always in His Presence said:
The ones that don't depend on CNN can -

Oh? When are you guys going to start?

Always in His Presence said:
you should open a thread and maybe learn something.

From what? Your Western Journal op-eds? Or your AI summaries? Or your nonsensical conspiracy theories about burn bags? Or the Tulsi Gabbard memo that repeatedly conflates hacking of vote counts with meddling in an election?

Not one of you guys has done anything more than repeat back the claims of your propagandist media outlets. Who among you has pointed to an element of the 100-page document dump as being anything close to a smoking gun?

None of you.

So, please, tell us, what is it we’re going to learn in this new thread from you all who have, thus far, done absolutely nothing to demonstrate that you have even a rudimentary understanding of the material?

Always in His Presence · Jul 31, 2025

Fantine said:
Thanks, say it ain't so, for publishing the incontrovertible facts that Always in his presence requested.

That isn't addressing what I asked for - want someone else to try and back you up?

DragonFox91 · Jul 31, 2025

It was banned in America b/c people believed it influenced outcomes. There was a reason Vegas used to not have pro sports for example. It also almost killed MLB for good I believe. I'm not sure what to think about it, but these decisions were made for a reason, they weren't just made 'to make up rules'. & there are victims of it

ToddinSD · Jul 31, 2025

Grasshopper Pie

Apple Sky · Jul 31, 2025

Phil G said:
So, for all who are interested in facts, evidence, critical thinking and marvelling at this vast universe the Lord God has created, a final debate will soon be taking place by TFE. Participants are to be announced. Well done to Pastor Will Duffy and all involved for the incredible work they’ve done in Antarctica.

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FaithT · Jul 31, 2025

A New Dawn said:
Except they don’t stand behind children so they can’t be fired upon or hide beneath schools and hospitals so they can’t be bombed. And except that they don’t steal aid and sell it on the black market so they can buy weapons, and they don’t put Gazan babies in ovens to die. But I guess otherwise they are just like terrorists.

They do, however, continue to fight and kill after agreeing on a ceasefire.

d taylor · Jul 31, 2025

DaisyDay said:
ICE is not a Christian group, but a governmental organization and a supposedly secular one at that.

-

My comment was addressed to/about the Christan group (Sojourners) where the article was published, by i guess one of their staff writers JR. Forasteros.

Dan Perez · Jul 31, 2025

keras said:
It is; to the true Israel of God, as scripture makes clear;
Romans 9:8…It isn’t the children of Abraham by natural descent who are the people of God, but all those born into God’s Promise, Jesus, who are the true children of faith.

Thinking that the current occupiers of a small part of the Holy Land, who call themselves Israel; are the true Israel - is a serious error.

Are you. saying since Israel has been set aside in. Acts 28:25-28 is a serious error ?? Why ??

Christ has given that answer when Israel will be BORN AGAIN , is where Israel and Judah is where Israel. will come from !!

And why do you say Christ has made a serious Error. ?

dan p

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