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Morality without Absolute Morality

Nope, empathy is a feeling. It's a feeling of being connected with someone else's emotions, or feeling what they feel.
Of course, empathy is an emotion.

Those who allow their emotions to rule their lives often try to pretend that their delusional disposition is rational so as to not appear foolish. The determination of whether empathy or any other passion is good or bad depends on the act that the feeling moves us to take. If that act is bad then the feeling is bad and vice versa.
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President makes historic trip to Asia

There is progress but we are still heavily dependent on China.
Rare earth elements were exported by several countries, and there was no shortage of supply. China did not use rare earth exports as leverage. The pause in China's rare earth export occurred as a result of President Trump's tariff policy.

Here is a list of rear earth export in year 2023 and 2024.

1762093113107.png

By the way Australia started the project of exporting rear earth almost 5 years ago and they finished first phase in 2022.

One thing President Trump’s tariffs accomplished is making other countries rethink their trade relationships with the US, seeking alternatives after fifty years of established practices.
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Do any of you follow MAGA theology?

AFAIK, MAGA is simply about doing what needs to be done to get this country back on track rather than further into debt which will eventually collapse us. It also means restoring freedoms that are being lost through government regulation and the usurping of power by unelected regulators. It means securing the country from foreign invasion--which is something that seemed to have actually being encouraged by the previous administration. It also means bringing back the ability to manufacture the things we depend on, rather than depending on countries that are hostile to us to provide what we need.

However, I don't see it as a theology rather than a set of policy choices. Agreeing that we need to be responsible rather than careless is not about worshipping the president. Some who don't like the current president like to portray those who agree with his policies and goals as being "worshippers of Trump", but that's not the case.
The current US national debt is approximately
$38.11 trillion, according to recent U.S. Treasury data. This figure reflects an increase since the beginning of the year. So not doing so well on responsible debt management.
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B flat B♭

But the Bible states that earth is unmovable.
The Bible is not a science textbook.
The earth cannot be moved by anyone, or anything, else. It cannot be moved from it's place in the Solar system - i.e further away from the sun than Mercury, or closer to it that Neptune.
That doesn't mean that the earth will never move. Otherwise there wouldn't be earthquakes, like there were in the days of Elijah, and before the resurrection. If there was an earthquake, the earth moved.
Psalm 60 also says that God has "shaken the land and torn it open". Another Psalm talks of the foundations of the earth being shaken.
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President makes historic trip to Asia

China’s Commitment on Fentanyl Precursors​

  • China pledged to strengthen controls on the production and export of precursor chemicals used in the manufacturing of fentanyl, a synthetic opioid linked to hundreds of thousands of overdose deaths in the U.S..
  • While the exact enforcement mechanisms were not publicly detailed, the move was seen as a significant gesture toward addressing U.S. concerns about the opioid crisis.

U.S. Response: Tariff Reductions​

  • In exchange, the U.S. halved its tariffs on fentanyl-related Chinese imports from 20% to 10%, and reduced the overall average tariff on Chinese goods from 57% to 47%.
  • This was part of a broader package that also included agreements on rare earth exports and agricultural purchases.

That's not pretending - that is another win.

China made the same commitment regarding fentanyl precursors in February of this year to President Trump. You created a thread on this topic at that time and again expressed praise for President Trump. Since then, President Trump has imposed multiple tariffs on Chinese goods, and now China has reiterated the exact same commitment.

You consider it a win when the government repeatedly makes identical commitments without delivering any results. Interesting way to measure success!
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B flat B♭

In Psalms 148:4 it does mention the waters above the heavens.
King James Bible
Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens
Yes, but like Genesis 1:7, Psalm 148:4 just says that the waters are above the heavens/firmament, not that the heavens or the firmament are supporting the waters.
Maybe the waters underneath i.e the oceans, are touching the firmament, maybe the firmament goes all around the earth like a bubble, you have just reminded me of thiese two videos where they discover warm saline underwater lakes.

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Fascinating!
I watched the beginning of the first video, and it talks about an underwater lake showing things that you and I don't believe, "how life began on earth and possibly elsewhere." When the words "and possibly elsewhere" are being said, the video shows one of the planets. We know from Genesis how life began on earth. We don't need an underwater lake to tell us that. I am unsure what water under water has to do with waters above the firmament, though.
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Who then can be saved?

I'm not sure how Romans 9:22 supports your view that God is patient with those not chosen for salvation. As if He's waiting for them to stop hating him and start loving Him instead.

God's sovereign right to use both the "vessels of wrath" (those not chosen for salvation) and the "vessels of mercy" (the elect) to display his attributes of wrath and mercy. The verse emphasizes that God's patience with those prepared for destruction serves to magnify his glory shown through those prepared for glory. This verse speaks about God's absolute sovereignty, with the final outcome being a demonstration of his power and righteousness.
That final outcome of God choosing certain vessels for glory and certain vessels for destruction comes AFTER Him having patience on them which is why the elect are chosen according to His foreknowledge. And here’s the real difference between our two opposing positions, in my position the vessels of wrath are capable of repentance making them responsible for their disobedience. In your version they are incapable of repentance because God has not enabled them to obey which makes God responsible for their disobedience since He is the One who has created them in this fallen state unable to comply with His commandments. The scriptures make it clear that God does not want them to be disobedient since He grieved in His heart that man was so wicked and marvels at their disobedience. It simply isn’t logical that God would grieve and marvel over man’s disobedience if it was something He actually wants them to do. It’s just simple common sense.
Ezekiel 33:11 was spoken to the House of Israel, in other word "Gods elect" or Gods chosen people if you like. But no such promise was ever made to those (not chosen for salvation).

To suggest that God wants to save the wicked, just because He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, is to twist what God has said to make it fit your Arminian version of the gospel. But the truth, you will never find a singe verse to support your opinion.
The house of Israel is God’s elect? The house of Israel is composed of both believers and unbelievers. Korah, Dathan, and Abiram were Jews, they were even Levite priests who were condemned by God in Numbers 16:32. Then you have all of the Jews that witnessed God’s miracles in Egypt who weren’t allowed to enter into the promised land because of their unbelief. Saul is another example, then you have several thousands of Jews who worshipped Idols for centuries, the Pharisees, Judas Iscariot and countless others. To say that the house of Israel is only composed of the elect is a demonstration of complete ignorance of the entire Bible. If all of these people I just mentioned were “God’s elect” then why were they condemned?
Again your perverted Arminian interpretation of 2 Peter 3:9 is false because it does not apply to those who were not chosen for salvation.
See this is what happens when you place your faith in the interpretation of fallen men. If you actually understood the verse and it's context, you would know that it was spoken to saved people, in other words "believers" or "Gods elect" or Gods chosen people" or "the Israel of God" or "the Church", all the same people described in different ways. But the reprobate are never ever included in any of those promises or exhortations.

Please god back and read the whole chapter of 2 Peter 3 and you will find that it was spoken to believers who were wondering why God is taking so long to save all of His elect.
They were told that God is patient, because He is waiting for every single one of His elect to be added to the Body of Christ, before He destroys this world.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise
, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward
US!!!, not willing that any should perish.

Who do you think the "US" is referring to, your religious denomination has told you it applies to every single devil. But that's not what Gods Word reveals. Instead it reveals that it applies to the elect of God only.
Your problem is you don’t include all of the information given in scripture and you have to twist the passages to say the exact opposite of what is actually written. In Romans 9:22 why is God being patient with the vessels of destruction? Can you answer that? I can.
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President makes historic trip to Asia

Oh, let's take a walk in reality -

Rare earth mining has significantly expanded in 2025, with major new projects launched in the U.S., Brazil, Australia, and Canada, driven by geopolitical shifts and the push for supply chain independence from China.

Here’s a breakdown of the most notable developments:

Major Projects Launched or Expanded in 2025​

  • Halleck Creek Project (Wyoming, USA): American Rare Earths advanced this strategic mining initiative to reduce U.S. dependence on foreign rare earths. It’s positioned as a cornerstone for domestic supply resilience.
  • Hoidas Lake Project (Saskatchewan, Canada): REAlloys Inc. is developing North America’s first fully integrated mine-to-magnet supply chain, backed by a $200 million commitment from the U.S. Export-Import Bank.
  • Texas Mining Revival (USA): Renewed efforts in Texas aim to tap domestic rare earth deposits as part of the broader U.S. strategy to rebuild its rare earth infrastructure.
  • Atlas Critical Minerals (Brazil & USA): Alongside Energy Fuels Inc., Atlas is advancing rare earth and uranium projects to reshape global supply chains.

International Collaborations and Investments​

  • U.S.–Australia Deal: A $3 billion joint investment was announced to support mining and processing projects, including a price floor for critical minerals. This aims to unlock $53 billion in Australian deposits.
  • Global Deal-Making Surge: The week of August 25–29 saw a flurry of rare earth agreements across North America, Europe, and Asia, spanning mining, processing, and magnet manufacturing.

No pretending there - it's a win. - Because of the Trump tariffs - the world's dependence on China for rare earth minerals (AI, Batteries, Magnets) is only a fraction of what it was and lessening. No one can be held hostage by their wanting to control this industry, now there are multiple sources being expanded.

Fentanyl dropped in half - no pretending there - it's a win.

Purchases of soy beans - without the growing aspects of Brazil's production - No pretending there - it's a win.

It's called aggressive negotiating - what brought China to the table? The tariffs - that's not pretend - it's a win.

On January 20, 2025, there was no tariff conflict. International trade proceeded as it had for the past fifty years. China exported rare earth elements and various products globally. China also imported soybeans, livestock, corn, and other goods from U.S. farms.

After President Trump assumed office, he created a global tariff war which contributed to a trade crisis. Over the past ten months, President Trump's policies have created uncertainty in international trade. Several U.S. trading partners pursued other options; Canada established new trade agreements with Europe, China formed new partnerships with Argentina, and trade between China and Brazil increased. The recent agreement with China has reinstated US-China trade relations to their prior status. President Trump initiated the dispute and subsequently addressed it; thus, there is no exceptional achievement, and credit is not warranted.

Supporters of President Trump who attribute the success of recent trade negotiations to him may lack a comprehensive understanding of how international trade relationships and the global economy function. Such unwavering support often suggests a tendency to endorse political figures regardless of actual outcomes. Commending President Trump for his approach to trade relations may indicate a limited grasp of the complexities inherent in world economic affairs.
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Trump’s Name Chanted in Israel AND Gaza After Peace Deal: ‘Nobel Prize to Trump!’

Personally, I think President Trump deserves the Nobel Prize or at least some sort of recognition. After all, he's the one who has done the most to bring peace to Israel and Gaza!
After initial enthusiasm, people fear ceasefire does not mean end to war but just less frequent, more unpredictable violence.

Still a very long way to go before anyone can be said to have brought peace to Israel and Gaza.
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The Reality of Free Will

As I said and you conveyed that you confirmed, it's not even a will. So why assert it exists?
Stating it "exists" is a bit of a misnomer, because it's not some detached object. It's a genuine reflection of our ability, though not an independent entity.
I'm saying that there's a just reason why Jesus said people will be judged by what measure they use to judge others. And I'm saying that he qualified his meaning by saying the merciful will receive mercy. And I'm saying that we are justified by grace through faith. And I'm saying that the apostles who said we are all sinners also spoke of being found blameless by God.
Ok...I'm not sure what this has to do with a discussion on free will.
I'm talking about choosing between options like turning the other cheek or returning evil for evil. If we look at the course of mutual distrust, we can see why grace and faith are more reasonable than cynicism.
Again, not sure how this relates.
In a moral/immoral context it's about caring or not caring how one's actions affect others. If I volunteer to sin, I'm deceived or drawn away from reality through vain imaginations. Since God is the Truth, as a matter of pragmatics any act of sin is based on first believing something untrue. The freedom to sin is therefore based on a lie.
There's no reason to suppose that freedom of choice is either non-existent or sinful. Questions of moral/immoral are more tangential to the discussion or at least are second-order issues
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Henry Kissinger, American diplomat and Nobel winner, dies at 100

I was just a teen during the Viet Nam War and had no interest in world affairs. Even the draft did not worry me yet. So Kissenger and Nixon decided to secretly bomb Cambodia without congressional approval. Wow! And then the protests and Kent State shootings. Troubled times.
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The root of sin, behaviour and God's presence and power boils off, Satan, persuasion, 3 deaths, repentance, salvation?

Adam's dust body was not an eternal body, nor was it meant to be.

Paul tells us God's Plan of Action, that being "first the natural, then the spiritual."

Adam was a natural man, with "faults" from the start. That fault being internal and not even of himself.

Sin is a progression, from thought, to word to deed.

Adam's thoughts were tainted from the start. And Jesus (again) advised as to how this transpired.

Already shown multiple times now:
God bound Adam with disobedience. Romans 11:32
Satan entered his heart, where the Word was sown and STOLE from him, Mark 4:15. That WORD was sown in Gen. 1 and Satan's entry was "immediate" thereafter.
Adam was "planted" in corruption, weakness and dishonor. It was never any better for Adam prior, in that dust body. 1 Cor. 15:42-46. This is also the condition of "every" person since, the only exception being God Himself in the flesh.

Darkness and the tempter are assuredly linked. Jesus gave us the open disclosure as to how and when.

Without His Key on this matter, it would remain "locked away," unknown. Mark 4:15 is that key that unlocks understandings.

But in order to use that key, it must be applied personally. Otherwise it remains locked to you and any others as well, because you see, you are probably still in denial that it happened and happens to you.

You are merely looking at the final act of sin, which is the "deed" portion.

We can know easily that Adam was a sinner when God laid the death sentence on him, with the "do not eat" law.

The law is for sinners. 1 Tim. 1:9.

That law moved sin from thought to word, and eventually to deed, the progression of sin.

How do we know Adam was deceived? Because Eve had not yet been separated from him when Adam received the law, and Eve recounted it WRONG. Therefore Adam had false understanding of that law, adding to it, that they could not "touch" the infamous tree. God didn't say that. Eve also demonstrated "lust" for said tree, and we know also that "lust" is of the devil.

Well, at least you get that far. Obviously not "all" we are presently is saved.

And the only reliance we have is entirely unmerited and unmeritable on our parts.

We can be honest, and even that will remain tainted by the fact of evil present within us (all)
Thank you for replying. I think our discussion is becoming rather repetitive (on both sides) so I will leave it there. Thanks again, and God bless you.
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Morality without Absolute Morality

This is logic at quite a basic level. IF x THEN y. The premises lead to the conclusion. If the conclusion is already present in the premises it's a fallacy.

Surely you know this..? From AI:

Petitio principii, also known as "begging the question" or circular reasoning, is a logical fallacy where the conclusion of an argument is assumed within the premises. Instead of providing independent evidence, the argument uses the very point it is trying to prove as a justification for that same point. This creates a circular loop where the premise and conclusion essentially say the same thing in different words, making the argument logically invalid because it fails to prove anything new.
I am well aware, but what is the "x" that's supposed to lead to the y? In order to be valid, there must be a relationship between x and y such that the statement that if x, then y holds water. Otherwise it's a non-sequitor. So what is the relationship?
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Which Groups Are More Likely To Believe That Violence Is Sometimes Necessary To Gain Political Aims?

So if you think that the election was rigged, you can resort to violence.

Personally I would check to see if those who would personally gain from the matter were lying to you. And gosh, it was Trump, who cannot seem to stop lying.

Just in case, I'd get the DOJ to check and list all the lies from all those involved for which there was direct evidence: recorded telephone calls, direct quotes, emails etc.

Then just to make absolutely sure, I'd take the matter to court in dozens of cases to see if any of them could be successful.

I guess that if you actually wanted the election overturned and all that turned out to be not in your favour then you could resort to Option 1, as you suggested.

Going straight to that option at the behest of the man who caused so many people to believe the lie shamed America in the eyes of the world. We all watched, horrified.

And people still excuse it.
Yeah, like I said, I'm in agreement with Jefferson that rebellion is a necessary element for democracy and if the people who rioted were truly convinced that the election was rigged then to not rebel would have been far more shameful.
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Heaven Is a Family — And They’re Waiting for You

On the Feast of All Saints, Holy Mother Church lifts our eyes to heaven — to our true homeland, and to the holy family that already loves us: the Church Triumphant. The saints are not distant figures. They walked the same earth, fought the same temptations, and carried their crosses in faith. Now they intercede for us and call us to join them in glory. Heaven is not a dream. Heaven is home. And your place is already prepared — if you persevere. Confession is your weapon. The Eucharist your strength. The Rosary your shield. The Cross your path. Do not aim to be remembered on earth. Aim to be recognized in heaven. All Saints of God, pray for us. Mary, Queen of All Saints, guide us.

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Trump third term

It is not just the idea of 3 or more terms for anyone, it is about hating Trump plain and simple. Trump represents a disinfectant type of exposure and change unacceptable to one side of the political spectrum.
No, he represents a toxicity that has damaged our relationships even with our closest allies and within ourselves. He is a toxic boor who has demolished the White House. I used to think Bush snd Chaney were bad for the country and still do. But Trump is also obnoxious.
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