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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

The Baptism of the Holy Spirit in Acts 2

Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is near Jerusalem, a sabbath day's journey away; and when they had entered, they went up to the upper room, where they were staying, Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot and Judas the son of James. All these with one accord devoted themselves to prayer, together with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren. In those days Peter stood up among the brethren (the company of persons was in all about a hundred and twenty), and said, "Brethren, the scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David, concerning Judas who was guide to those who arrested Jesus. For he was numbered among us, and was allotted his share in this ministry. (Now this man bought a field with the reward of his wickedness; and falling headlong he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out. And it became known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, so that the field was called in their language Akel'dama, that is, Field of Blood.) For it is written in the book of Psalms, 'Let his habitation become desolate, and let there be no one to live in it'; and 'His office let another take.' So one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us--one of these men must become with us a witness to his resurrection." And they put forward two, Joseph called Barsab'bas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthi'as. And they prayed and said, "Lord, who knowest the hearts of all men, show which one of these two thou hast chosen to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside, to go to his own place." And they cast lots for them, and the lot fell on Matthi'as; and he was enrolled with the eleven apostles.

When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. And suddenly a sound came from heaven like the rush of a mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared to them tongues as of fire, distributed and resting on each one of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one heard them speaking in his own language. And they were amazed and wondered, saying, "Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? Par'thians and Medes and E'lamites and residents of Mesopota'mia, Judea and Cappado'cia, Pontus and Asia, Phryg'ia and Pamphyl'ia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyre'ne, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians, we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God." And all were amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, "What does this mean?" But others mocking said, "They are filled with new wine."
Acts 1:12-2:13 RSV-CE

It's a long passage with many details. You think it is about a second baptism? A baptism in/with the Holy Spirit?
And in Acts 2:38 the Greek water // hydro. is not in. the Greek text. !!


And water baptism STOP IAS WRITTEN in Acts 1:5 , PERIOD !!

And no in 1 Cor 10:2 and all were BAPTIZED unto Moses in the Cloud. and in the SEA ,

So how were 200,000 Jews baptized into Moses , in. the CLOUD and in the SEA ??

DAN P

dan p
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DeSantis to make Florida first state to end *all* vaccine mandates for schools

She does.

She also should consider that forcing someone to do something they're already, to use her term, "afraid of", is probably not the best way to build trust. it's not hard to see how such an approach could be counterproductive.
Trust isn't the goal; preventing the spread of serious illness in schools is. And trust in what? Authorities? Uh-uh: don't trust them. Trust that vaccines work? That's easy to determine. Trust that vaccines saves lives? A walk through an old cemetery with tiny graves can do that.
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DeSantis to make Florida first state to end *all* vaccine mandates for schools

You mean the COVID mRNA vaccines? How much of that was a lie and how much of that shear ignorance by politicians?

From the CDC, it was lies. They knew from the beginning that the vaccine was not going to prevent infections or transmission. Yet they ran around telling people that the virus would stop with them if they would just get the vaccine. They had to say that. It's the only way a mandate could be justified. People had to be made to believe that vaccinating was protecting others.

The moment COVID-19 strains mutated away from the original variant, the vaccine for it wasn't going to be 100% effective.

That was always a 100% certainty.

That's the way it is with influenza, so why not with a coronavirus? No big surprise there.

Exactly. So why did public health pretend otherwise? Fauci told people that they didn't have to worry about getting infected if they got the vaccines. But that was never true. As you said, it was no big surprise. Certainly someone as informed as Fauci knew this when he told people they wouldn't get infected if they were vaccinated.

Anecdotally have seen partial immunity when influenza mutated between the vaccine and flu season, so there was some protection, and that showed up in the dataset that showed a significant increase in survivability among the vaccinated in my demographic as compared to the unvaccinated in the same demographic. That's what convinced me to get the vaccine.

For reference, here is the Cochrane Review on influenza vaccines.

We found 52 clinical trials of over 80,000 adults. We were unable to determine the impact of bias on about 70% of the included studies due to insufficient reporting of details. Around 15% of the included studies were well designed and conducted. We focused on reporting of results from 25 studies that looked at inactivated vaccines. Injected influenza vaccines probably have a small protective effect against influenza and ILI (moderate-certainty evidence), as 71 people would need to be vaccinated to avoid one influenza case, and 29 would need to be vaccinated to avoid one case of ILI. Vaccination may have little or no appreciable effect on hospitalisations (low-certainty evidence) or number of working days lost.
That's what convinced me NOT to get any more flu vaccines. But I think it's great that you and I can make those risk assessments for ourselves and choose what is best for our situation.
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Trump dispenses with trials, orders military strike on alleged Venezuelan drug-trafficking boat (Now up to 2, 3, 4...)

The fact is, the US has gotten pretty loose about attacking various folk since the 1980s.

More so since the "War on Terror" following 9-11.
However, executing suspected drug traffickers is new territory (and has no Congressonal approval).
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Trump says Americans would like a dictatorship

When we read the following, must remember how Trump's NPD shapes what he says. When he says, "A lot of people are saying..." it means "I know I'm completely lying to your face right now - but I DARE you to call it a lie! Then I'll just sulk and call you a nasty person! You're not allowed to shatter my fragile ego by implying I don't know everything about everything."

Time Magazine: 26 August 2025

President Donald Trump said Monday that he thinks Americans may like a “dictator,” though he wouldn’t describe himself as one.​
“They say: ‘We don’t need him. Freedom, freedom, he’s a dictator, he’s a dictator,’” Trump told reporters at the Oval Office. “A lot of people are saying, ‘Maybe we like a dictator.’ I don’t like a dictator. I’m not a dictator. I’m a man with great common sense and a smart person.”​
Trump’s remarks came as he signed a raft of executive orders, including one in which he tasked Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth to lead the training of a specialized National Guard unit dedicated to “ensuring public safety” in Washington, D.C.​


Seriously - is the guy OK?

I know he has NPD and lives to troll people - but this is a lot even for him.

Don't MAGA cringe with embarrassment when he opens his mouth?

When are the adults in the room going to say it's time for the 25th? It's just shameful now.
Many American Christians want a Christian leader that will prepare the kingdom of God here with Christian leadership and policies. I can understand where that is tempting, but it is likely based on a poor end times theology. Trump does not seem a likely choice anyway for longevity and for many policy choices. He is a good choice to bring the hammer though. Will it prevail through the courts? I think the Supreme Court is going to have to shut him down. Could be tariffs, troops in other cities, or the firings of certain officials or additional events in the future. Ultimately, I think failure is on the horizon. The good news is that God is going to get involved. Americans will I think have a chance to repent.
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DeSantis to make Florida first state to end *all* vaccine mandates for schools

Yes. Florida got that title after deadly childhood diseases were no longer a thing so I didn’t say again.
An odd thing, for prior to the pandemic, most anti-vaxxers were in places like the Northwest and New York. And how many patient zeroes came from outside the US?
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Trump dispenses with trials, orders military strike on alleged Venezuelan drug-trafficking boat (Now up to 2, 3, 4...)

Legal Issues Raised by a Lethal U.S. Military Attack in the Caribbean

Although the facts are still emerging, the Trump administration’s extraordinary lethal attack on this purported smuggling vessel – and its vow that the strike was a start of a campaign – raise a number of significant potential legal issues. And even apart from these legal concerns, the strike constitutes a deeply troubling gratuitous use of the military that resulted in the unnecessary killing of 11 individuals.

Public reporting on the past interpretation of the assassination ban indicates that the U.S. executive branch has recognized two potentially relevant exceptions to the prohibition in recent decades: (1) actions taken in self-defense; and (2) use of lethal force consistent with the law of war.

With respect to self-defense, the Trump administration has indicated that it is countering the flow of drugs to the United States. But drug trafficking by itself does not constitute an “armed attack,” nor a threat of an imminent armed attack, for the purposes in international law. Nor does drug trafficking represent the predicate for self-defense commonly recognized as required for the invocation of self-defense under criminal law in the United States.

civilians directly participating in hostilities may also be made the object of attack. Smuggling drugs by itself does not render a civilian a combatant/fighter subject to status-based targeting. Nor does it constitute direct participation in hostilities. [with respect to the law of war]

Experts Say Trump Administration’s Deadly Boat Attack Amounts to Extrajudicial Killings

Experts say the administration’s deadly strike violated international law.

“Labeling someone a terrorist and deploying the military does not make them a military target,” Vincent Warren, executive director of the Center for Constitutional Rights, said in a statement to Truthout. “These actions amount to an extra-judicial killing, a violation of international law, which should raise extraordinary concerns.”

“Using military forces to kill alleged drug traffickers is an act of murder, not war,” Wells Dixon, a senior attorney with the Center for Constitutional Rights, told Truthout in a statement following the attack on Tuesday.

Civil rights attorney Alec Karakatsanis called the killings “extra-judicial assassinations — a preemptive death penalty with no process — for vague alleged nonviolent drug distribution offenses.”

There is no legal basis for this action...but legality is hardly a concern with this President....nor many of his supporters.
  • Agree
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Lost

Salvation is by faith (trusting). This illustration is often used to show the difference between believing and trusting.

In the summer of 1859, Charles Blondin, a world-renowned tightrope walker, dazzled crowds by walking over Niagara Falls on a tightrope 1,100 feet long and 160 feet above the roaring waters. Thousands of spectators gathered to witness as he performed this incredible feat multiple times, each time adding another dramatic stunt—like walking blindfolded, on stilts, or cooking an omelet. Each time he completed the journey, the crowd erupted in cheers.

At the end of one of his stunts, Blondin took a wheelbarrow and asked the crowd if they believed he could push the wheelbarrow across the rope. Everyone clapped, “Yes, you can do it!” Blondin then said, “OK, who volunteers to get into the wheelbarrow?” at which point the crowd fell silent. It’s one thing to say you have faith—that’s easy. It’s another thing to get into the wheelbarrow.


As one grows and understand more, he is likely to see what has been told about Jesus is true and this becomes the foundation of a growing faith. Once a person has become a Christian, it can be difficult to understand that we are supposed to stop living for ourselves (selfishness) and begin to learn to walk by the Holy Spirit (the selfless loive of Christ). Most Christians are not even aware of this option.
I think you summed me up there
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Does God want men to choose easy options ?

I mean no disrespect, but you would face some significant challenges with your methods.
i don't feel disrespect, thank you. i guess the challenges would mostly come from men, don't you think ?
Anyway, i 'd rather these challenges, but these from men, to the challenge of struggling against earth's cataclysms
I would strongly encourage you to learn all you can about growing crops in whatever area of the world you are in along with primitive carpentry / living off the grid skills before attempting it.
i think the learning would be pretty short in time, with these parameters of mine, #34, since i have no knowledge of any epoch when man was wise enough to wait for nature to reconstitute itself, and collect just what he needed. Caïn was already cultivating the soil, whereas his parents didn't. And what's more, i believe Adam and Eve didn't transmit their methods
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Newsome pushed back against Democracy to achieve his political goals

Goal achieved:
Yes - you successfully posted once again without addressing the main questions put to you by many commenters here?

If you don't like Gerrymandering:-

1. Are you going to criticize Texan Republicans for doing it?

2. Would you sign a petition for establishing universal American Electoral Committees - with universally bipartisan, objective, mathematically and constitutionally confined AEC's at the Federal and State level?

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Lost

Luke 11:9-10 "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened."
Believe me I meant what I was saying. At least, I did in my head. I wanted it, but did I believe it was real?
I fear I am one of those whose heart is hardened, but I will keep talking and see what happens.
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DeSantis to make Florida first state to end *all* vaccine mandates for schools

Once you have been lied to by the agency mandating that vaccine, it destroys the trust and you begin to question other things.
You mean the COVID mRNA vaccines? How much of that was a lie and how much of that shear ignorance by politicians? The moment COVID-19 strains mutated away from the original variant, the vaccine for it wasn't going to be 100% effective. That's the way it is with influenza, so why not with a coronavirus? No big surprise there. Anecdotally have seen partial immunity when influenza mutated between the vaccine and flu season, so there was some protection, and that showed up in the dataset that showed a significant increase in survivability among the vaccinated in my demographic as compared to the unvaccinated in the same demographic. That's what convinced me to get the vaccine.
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Revelation 12 walk through

I will walk through Revelation 12, explaining the verses. Follow along with your bible reading each verse as I explain the meaning thereof.

Revelation 12:1-5 is a vision John saw of Jesus being born to the woman (Israel) and Satan's attempt to have Jesus killed as soon as he was born. Which historically happened when Herod ordered all the children under the age of 2 be killed.

Verse 5 is Jesus born and caught up to God and to God's throne. Destined to rule the nations with a rod of iron.
Correct, but after this you go off the rails on "TIMING TELLS" brother.

Revelation 12:6 jumps to the end times, when Israel, the woman, has returned to the land, but still in unbelief that Jesus is the messiah. And for 1260 days, Israel will be fed the Word of God - by the two witnesses, of Revelation 11:3, those 1260 days.
Well, not if you mean the end of the 1260 days, you probably means it jumps from Jesus ascending to the middle of the 70th week, thus it is called the 1260 Middle of the Week Event. At the 1260 Israel WILL NOT STILL BE IN "UNBELIF" my friend, they repent 75 days before this at the 1335, which is when the Two-Wit. show up, as Mal. 4:5 says BEFORE the Day of the Lord. Yes, Israel are indeed brought back into the land in unbelief, in 1948, but after the 70th week starts, and at the 1335, they repent, just before the Middle of the Week or 1260 Anti-Christ Conquers them.

Revelation 12:7-9 after the 1260 days, there will be a war in the second heaven which Satan and his angels will be cast down to earth.
Yes but nit after the 1260 days, but rather at the start of the 1260 days. Satan is cast into Hellfire by Jesus in Rev. 20 right? So, how can he "chase Israel" for 1260 days unless he is cast down in the middle of the 70th week? Not at the very end.

Revelation 12:10 the Jews at that time finally turn to Jesus and the gospel of salvation. Satan will have been accusing them of their unbelief for the 1260 days that the Jews will mistakenly think the Antichrist is their messiah
They do so just before the 1260 begins, at the 1335, that is why they know to Flee Judea 30 days before the Middle of the Week at the 1290 AoD. Satan will have been lying unto them about Jesus for 2000 plus years.

Revelation 12:11 the Jews will overcome all Satan's accusations by believing upon the blood of the Lamb as atonement for their sins. And the Jews will testify about Jesus and the gospel of salvation. Even though many will be killed for their testimony.
Again, before Satan is cast down, Israel repents.

Revelation 12:12 because Satan has been cast down to earth with just a short time left to his power, them in heaven rejoice about his coming demise. But to them on earth, Satan's wrath at being cast down will be the third woe to the inhabiters of earth as said in Revelation 8:13.
Satan is angry he has been cast down, but he is cast down before the all three woes hit, and before the Asteroid or First Four Trumps hit in the Middle of the Week, or at least at the same time.

Revelation 12:13 Satan will take his wrath out on Israel and begin to persecute Israel.
He tries to kill everyone he can get at, period.

Revelation 12:14 The Jews in Judea will flee into the mountains when they see the abomination of desolation statue image set up and indwelt by Satan. There in the wilderness, the Jews will be protected for the remaining time/times/half time that Satan will have left.
They flee at the 1290 and have 30 days to get to the Petra/Bozrah mountains.

Revelation 12:15 Satan will make attempts to destroy the Jews in their mountains sanctuary.

Revelation 12:16 But God will supernaturally thwart all attempts by Satan to persecute the Jews who had fled into the mountains.
Yes God protects Israel (The Woman)

Revelation 12:17 Satan, not able to get to the Jews in the mountains, will persecute the remaining Jews who did not flee to the mountains right away, as Jesus told them to do in Matthew 24:15-21. Those Jews who Satan will have access to persecute, Jesus will rescue when Jesus returns to Jerusalem in Zechariah 14.
Yes, he will kill the 2/3, they WIL DIE, Zech. 13:8-9 says so. The ones who get persecuted however in the above verse is the Non Raptured (5 Virgins with no oil) Church/Body of Gentile Believers w repent during the 70th week, thus they are called The Remnant (Church)
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Why Does Space (Outer) Always Have To Be A Race

And what's cool is no guilt for taking for personal profit what belongs to all the people like is done here, unless aliens be invisible
I was worried before that once aliens saw how lucrative the mining of minerals would be in space that they would want a big cut (those gold hording Anunnaki). But after all the advancements in exploring distant galaxies and not seeing much life out there, I think we can claim it all for ourselves.
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DeSantis to make Florida first state to end *all* vaccine mandates for schools

Today heard a retired 94 year-old teacher say that some people are so afraid of shots that they wouldn't be vaccinated / allow family to be vaccinated without making it a requirement for school attendance. She has a point.

She does.

She also should consider that forcing someone to do something they're already, to use her term, "afraid of", is probably not the best way to build trust. it's not hard to see how such an approach could be counterproductive.
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Why is this forum so politically active?

As the end times approach the political realm is undergoing some serious changes. If you consider when Jesus was here, many believers also thought about this change. Mt 24 goes on to say that many will be deceived. That deception is lurking now. Christianity wrongly has been infused with politics for this time. God has allowed it because I think he wants to show us the excesses including the love of money being far too intertwined with religion and politics.

Acts 1:6-7 (KJV)
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Matthew 24:2-3 (KJV)
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
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Lost

When I first prayed to God to accept the Gospel, it didn’t “work” the first time. I prayed to accept the Gospel multiple times, there were multiple attempts. I had some issues that I had to work out.

The biggest problem was my panic over hell and the prayer itself, I had to leave it up to God to accept me on the basis of Christ’s sacrifice, not based on the specific prayer I was saying. (Ironically, it’s not about whether the prayer works or doesn’t work. That can also be an obstacle. It’s not about using prayer to twist God’s arm to get you out of hell. You’re submitting to Christ’s authority.)





By far the best option is to is to pray to God and ask Him if there are any problems with your salvation. Tell God that you submit to his authority and tell him that you believe his Son has risen from the dead. Ask Him to show you what stands in the way of accepting his Gospel.

I understand that you had a spiritual experience that led you up to this point, and you have a lot of emotions going on right now. But faith in Christ isn’t about what you feel as much as what you believe and do. Beliefs can lead to feelings (in my case, a sense of emotional clarity and direction) but that may not happen right away. It can take some time for you to notice the Holy Spirit’s changes. He gets to work right away, but your fallen mind may not be able to notice what He’s doing until a little bit later.

I’ll pray for you too.

Gracious Heavenly Father,
I pray for Bob, whom You have placed a desire to accept the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Please show him his status before You, and help him to accept the Gospel, to persevere in prayer. Father, please show him his heart. Lord Jesus, I pray for You to plead Your sacrifice on his behalf. I pray for the Holy Spirit to indwell him, that he may be baptized by the Spirit and join the family of believers. Be with this man to save him, as You have written that you desire that all should come to repentance.

And lastly, dear Lord, remind him that he is not alone, that You are with him, and the Body of Christ stands ready to welcome him in the Lord!
In Christ’s Name,
Amen
Thankyou.

I tend to avoid the site for a while after a post out of guilt (I normally visit after a few beers) .

I have not given up hope despite my hardened heart. I thank you for your words and, despite my scepticism, I no longer feel abandoned. If your prayers were a part of that then I thank you.

It won't go well for me, but I hope for you that you are right.
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DeSantis to make Florida first state to end *all* vaccine mandates for schools

Heavens waiting room, now for all ages.
Now for all ages? See my post about little graves. Until relatively recently, that was the norm throughout human existence. That's something vaccines helped to end to the point where younger generations assume death mostly comes to the elderly. The motif of the Danse Macarbre may date back to the Black Plaque, but it's always held true.
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No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

For the very first quote, from Clement of Rome, you conveniently left out that he said “ all are glorified and magnified by HIS will”. Not our own. And “but by faith by which God Almighty hath justified all from the beginning”. You conveniently left that part out. The part that he gives us the faith we are justified with.

And for Ignatius of Antioch, that is the core teaching of total depravity. THE. CORE. TEACHING. Since turning to God is a spiritual activity, then it is obvious that that is something a carnal man can’t do.

Let’s go on.

Justin Martyr was saying that prior to Christ (and his saving work in us) we were born sinners and there was no good thing in us and it was IMPOSSIBLE to understand or perform spiritual things and had no innate power to save himself or attain eternal life.

Irenaeus of Lyons you were close as far as you went, but you stopped just short of what he meant by what he was saying. And it was the same as Paul said in Romans , and as Justin Martyr said. That because of man’s fallen nature, they cannot choose spiritual things.

Lactantius said we were blind, in darkness, on prison, and ignorant of God and truth, and God enlightened us, adopted us and delivered us from evil bonds and gave us wisdom. He is saying God took them while they were still in the throes of sin and regenerated them.

Athanasius said that because the devil wrought sin from the beginning, it is impossible for us to restore ourselves to liberty. And without God it is impossible for us to be one with Him.

What I’m NOT seeing is any one of them saying that it is a mutual decision or that God is only helping us along the road to salvation. ALL of them are say that man’s depravity prevents them from, not just needing help along the way, but that we don’t even know God or anything good because our hearts are too deceitful.

We don’t need for you to put your own spin on something we can clearly read for ourselves.
Don't you think a believer can do a carnal thing? To be consistent with Ignatius words this should be the case, since you believe it says a carnal person can't do a spiritual thing.

Ignatius of Antioch
“They that are carnal,” says he, “cannot do the things that are spiritual, nor they that are spiritual do the things that are carnal, as neither faith the things of unbelief, nor unbelief the things of faith,” (Ep. ad Ephesians p. 22.).
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Let's Track the Economy (with objective empirical data?)

The US jobs market is treading water, but +8,000 initial jobless claims is just statistical noise. Initial claims regularly swing by +/- 10,000 from week to week. Week to week swings of nearly +/- 20,000 aren't uncommon and swings in the range of +/- 50,000 aren't unheard of.

If you look at the 4 week average, jobless claims are essentially flat over the last 12 months. The worst you could say is that claims are up ~9% since the start of the year. But, you could counter than by noting that claims are down 6% since June.

Instead, look at the total number of people receiving unemployment insurance. That's up from about 1.83 million 12 months ago to about 1.97 million now. If you look at the job opening data (generally negative) and labor force participation rate data (generally positive) it's likely to get worse over the next 3-4 months.
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SecDef Hegseth Drafting 600 Military Judges to Clear Backlog of Immigration Cases.

Nuh-uh. Most of these cases are so new that nothing has reached full SCOTUS review, though SCOTUS has allowed some actions to continue (and forbidden others, like eliminating birthright citizenship in certain states) for the time being. And things are only slowly getting to the Appeals stage.

I remember several of the lower courts being reversed by appeals and by the SCOTUS and the SCOTUS judges scolding lower courts for attempting to ignore or go around rulings made by the SCOTUS.

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Does God want men to choose easy options ?

2 Pe 3:11 is not in agreement with your feeling (post #29).

Could you please tell me, Clare, to what extent it's not ?
That's not our call. . .God gets to call that. . .and if we are the source of its destruction, then that was God's call.
Could you also tell where in the Scriptures you find such ideas
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