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Is belief/non-belief a morally culpable state?

I generally agree with you here on these points. We each are fallible, and I also think that knowing we could be wrong comes with accepting and adopting a more philosophically inclined awareness, or a scientific outlook, where 'truth' is defined not as a singular, static entity but as as a human speech act where claims, propositions or explanations are asserted in an effort to describe what we think about the fuller Reality we all live in.

Knowing that these claims, propositions or explanations have human limits and are in and of themselves finite in nature should move us to realize that the truths we live by are provisional and always open to possible revision.

The challenge is in encouraging other people to realize that while they hold confidence in certain ideas or propositions, they're not necessarily betraying the implied goals in those ideas or propositions by questioning them.
The other issue is truth that is beyond our comprehension does exist. (I'm not sure if this is what you are saying here?) But I have seen instances where because some subject shows itself to be revisable; people will claim that absolute truth doesn't exist. Therefore truth is always subjective. (Which can be easily proven wrong in some very real practical terms. I.E. 1+1 never equals 3.

Which of course, to admit incomplete knowledge (I.E. I might be wrong about hypothesis A, B or C) is predicated upon the "belief" that absolute truth does exist.
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Here’s the No. 1 fallacy on eternal security

No one doubts that. It's just that their opinion, from their vantage point of nearness in time to Christ, discipleship of an apostle in some of the earliest cases, and very close unanimity on such issues as the topic of this thread is far more likely to be correct than your own.
Unfortunately that kind of reliance leads to misinterpretations and biases. The accuracy of a witness statement can vary greatly because human memory is not like a video camera and is susceptible to distortions, biases, and external influences, rather than being a perfect, unchanging record of an event. Contextual analysis, exegesis, and the correct use of the hermeneutic circle is necessary to weed out the biases and inaccuracies of the writer. In addition our own philosophical objectivity could cause a relative understanding rather than an objective understanding which could lead to presentism.

I see Christians from churches that rely on tradition give the ecf’s a cult like recognition to the point that a quotation from one becomes their only proof to prove an argument up above scripture. The only corpus of knowledge that is infallible and inspired are the Holy Scriptures not the writings of the ECFs.
And there's much more to it than that. Most all of them write profusely and knowingly about love and its central role in the faith and in defiining true righteousness for man. They just get it, while so many modern theologians don't, as Scripture doesn't happen to elaborate on love nearly as much as it does faith, especially via Paul, of course, so Sola Scriptura adherents often end up gravitating towards a myopic obsession on faith rather than seeing it as a vital part of a much greater whole. The gospel becomes skewed, out of balance and weighed heavily towards hyper-rationalism and little more than some intellectual concepts they've contructed from a handful of passages..
‘And this would be your interpretation of the ECFs that you have read. In fact, I am willing to suggest that, only from their famous quotes and some paragraphs here and there, you have not read their works in their entirety. I find their writings to be essential both for historical context and edification but they are not united as one in many issues. Their understanding is consistent with the times in which they wrote where communication was limited by several factors including distance.
And then the fact that, aside from catechesis which was better or worse throughout church history, basic theology is cemented into the sacraments, themselves, of the churches in the east and west, so that no one need be a bible scholar in order to understand the gospel let alone even literate, as so many weren't down through the centuries. My semi-literate grandmother from the foothills of the Italian alps had a simple, beautiful and well-practiced faith that I'd wager as superior to just about any who endlessly debate Scripture, believing they have some take on it superior to the original understanding. The simplest, crudest of folk can know and live out the basics of the faith-what it means to please God- based virtually on the sacraments alone.
Amazing what semi literate people accomplish. My grandmother did not speak English or drove a car or finished high school and yet became a devout Christian just reading her devotionals and Holy Scriptures. God leads as He wishes.
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Who then can be saved?

It actually sounds like a Biblical view, and if you believe that the Bible is Gods Word, then you also believe it's actually Gods point of view as well.

I get it, natural man can't accept Gods point of view as it goes against human nature. That's why God must regenerate a man and change his nature before the man can receive spiritual things. Until then, they are foolishness to him.

Unregenerate people approach the Bible, with preconceived ideas and expectations of what it must be saying. No natural man can receive the truth, while his sin nature dominates him.
I don't think this post complies with CF's rules of engagement. But of more concern than that is the judgementalism that is packed into your comments. Some introspection on your part is needed to address this issue.
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Is belief/non-belief a morally culpable state?

Or Real Person/conscientiousness. It's therefore regarded as an epiphany.

Truth=information=knowledge

This is an objectively true dichotomy ---> Knowledge/ignorance. <--- Objectively, Knowledge precedes ignorance
This is a subjectively true dichotomy ---> ignorance/Knowledge. <--- Subjectively, ignorance precedes Knowledge

Darkness was on the face of the deep and the creation is learning/turning to reflect the Creator.
I certainly agree with you. I just wasn't aware that "objective true dichotomy" and "subjective true dichotomy" definitions actually existed. And that the term "epiphany" applied. Although I have heard people describe this application thereof in philosophical conversations. I just wasn't aware it had an actual title and definition to it.

Learn something new every day! :sohappy:

Thanks.
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Trump dispenses with trials, orders military strike on alleged Venezuelan drug-trafficking boat (Now up to 2, 3, 4...)

If it's a person, it has a Constitutional right to due process. No person can be deprived of this right.
That’s only if they’re within the jurisdiction of the US.
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Trump admin. concedes Maryland man from El Salvador was mistakenly deported/sent to mega prison - shrugs 'nothing can be done' [ETA: oh but it can!]

U.S. says it will deport Kilmar Abrego Garcia to Eswatini because he fears deportation to Uganda

Eswatini’s government spokesperson told The Associated Press on Saturday that it had no received no communication regarding Abrego Garcia’s transfer there.

Ridiculous.

The government could have worked out a deal to allow Abrego be deported to Costa Rica in return for pleading guilty to a minor offense. But of course, this government will not do that....
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American boys have become less supportive of gender equality (i.e. men and women should receive equal job opportunities and pay)

Could it be a more direct effect? Have the discussions around women's rights changed in the churches themselves?
I believe they have in some American churches, including influential ones to which people like Secretary of War Hegseth belong to. (closed thread)

AI Overview


While not all churches are turning against women, there is a trend of many conservative Christian denominations reinforcing traditional gender hierarchies and patriarchal structures, which creates significant tension with the views and experiences of many young women and is contributing to an increase in the number of women disaffiliating from organized religion

Key Factors Contributing to the Shift

  • Reinforced Patriarchal Structures:Some conservative churches are actively pushing back against women's leadership and affirming a gender hierarchy that requires women to submit to male leadership.
  • Biblical Interpretations:
  • Cultural and Political Misalignment:
  • The #MeToo Movement:The #MeToo movement and the subsequent #ChurchToo hashtag brought to light widespread reports of church sexual abuse and harassment, further eroding trust in religious institutions for many women.
Consequences of this Trend

  • Increased Disaffiliation:T
  • Gendered Power Dynamics:Women's roles in churches are changing, with some denominations taking steps to limit their authority and leadership opportunities.
  • A "Flip" in Religious Engagement:For the first time in decades, men are now reporting higher levels of church attendance than women, a reversal of a long-standing trend.
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Trump dispenses with trials, orders military strike on alleged Venezuelan drug-trafficking boat (Now up to 2, 3, 4...)

The narco terrorists coming from Venezuala are not under the Constitution. Are Canadians? The French?
If it's a person, it has a Constitutional right to due process. No person can be deprived of this right.
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DUTY, HONOR, COUNTRY: West Point Association of Graduates Announces Recipient of 2024 Sylvanus Thayer Award: Barack Obama

What a difference a year/Hegseth makes.

West Point alumni group cancels award ceremony for Tom Hanks

Bieger wrote that the alumni association, in coordination with the academy, “will not be holding the Thayer Award ceremony” as originally scheduled and apologized for the cancellation. The email did not say whether Hanks’s award has been revoked or if it will be presented in some other format.

“This decision allows the Academy to continue its focus on its core mission of preparing cadets to lead, fight, and win as officers in the world’s most lethal force, the United States Army,” wrote Bieger, who earned a Silver Star for combat valor in Iraq.

The decision marks a dramatic shift from June, when the association announced Hanks as its 2025 Thayer recipient. The alumni group cited his work acting in several movies portraying U.S. service members, including “Saving Private Ryan,” “Forrest Gump” and “Greyhound.” It also credited his producing of “Band of Brothers” and “The Pacific,” both World War II-themed miniseries, and his extensive advocacy for veterans.

Hanks, the announcement noted, was a leading proponent for creation of the World War II Memorial in D.C.; supported efforts to build a national memorial for President Dwight D. Eisenhower, a celebrated Army general before entering politics; and served as national chairman for a massive fundraising campaign to establish what is now the National WWII Museum in New Orleans.

West Point also recently rehung a 20-foot portrait of Gen. Robert E. Lee, a West Point graduate who fought to preserve slavery for the Confederacy, in its library, a move first reported by the New York Times. The artwork, featuring an enslaved person guiding Lee’s horse in the background, was put in storage in 2022 at the direction of a congressionally mandated commission that examined what to do with images, symbols, names, monuments and other items that commemorate the Confederacy. [And Congress did not say put it back.]
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Trump admin. concedes Maryland man from El Salvador was mistakenly deported/sent to mega prison - shrugs 'nothing can be done' [ETA: oh but it can!]

Judge blocks administration from deporting Kilmar Abrego Garcia until at least October

The judge extended her restraining order until his court challenge is resolved.

The judge also said that Abrego Garcia, who is currently being held in a detention center in Virginia, must remain in custody within a 200-mile radius of the court in Maryland.

U.S. says it will deport Kilmar Abrego Garcia to Eswatini because he fears deportation to Uganda

Eswatini’s government spokesperson told The Associated Press on Saturday that it had no received no communication regarding Abrego Garcia’s transfer there.
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Trump Angry at Smithsonian, for Depicting Slavery as Bad

I don’t know why acknowledging the good things that occurred in that whole mess is so hard for some people.
For example, Hitler was actually a pretty good industrial designer, according to Albert Speer. He laid out the basic specs for the Volkswagen, for example. Richard Nixon's foreign policy was often brilliant.

And Sen Tom Cotton says that slavery was a "necessary evil"

Thanks for winning the Godwin award.
I don't know why acknowledging the good things about those guys is so hard for you. I mean, you were complaining that no one appreciated the good things about slavery. You just proved my point.
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Trump to sign order renaming Pentagon 'Department of War': Sources

As Amanda Castro and Hannah Parry of Newsweek note, in August, Trump said he wanted the change because “Defense is too defensive...we want to be offensive too if we have to be.”

By law, Congress must approve the change, which Politico estimates will cost billions of dollars, although Trump said: “I'm sure Congress will go along if we need that. I don't think we even need that.”


...

Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth has pushed the change because he sees it as part of his campaign to spread a “warrior ethos” at the Pentagon. Today he said the name change was part of “restoring intentionality to the use of force….

We’re going to go on offense, not just on defense. Maximum lethality, not tepid legality, violent effect, not politically correct. We’re going to raise up warriors, not just defenders. So this War Department, Mr. President, just like America, is back.”




Offensive? As in blowing up civilian boats in International waters?
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Is an Apology Necessary?

It might very well hurt someone if it makes the wrong person appear to be responsible for the harm done.
A friend has cancer and doesn’t feel good. I go see him and say “I’m sorry you don’t feel good today”. Did I apologize for causing his pain or just to show empathy?

As a deacon I visit many people that have problems and apologize as a sign of empathy not fault. All understand the empathy.

Do you think showing empathy this way is way is wrong?
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Trump's plan is working.

Americans, regardless of political affiliation, perceive that crime rates are rising. Surveys consistently indicate that the public believes there is more crime today than a decade ago. Furthermore, most Americans support politicians and elected officials who take action to address crime within their communities.

The notion that crime is increasing is mistaken; in fact, America has less crime now than in 1990.

Over the past three decades, crime rates in the United States have experienced a significant decline. According to FBI Uniform Crime Reporting and Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS), both violent and property crime rates have dropped to historic lows since their peaks in the early 1990s.

Key Statistics​

  • Violent crime rates (including homicide, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault) have declined by over 50% since 1991.
  • The national homicide rate fell from around 9.8 per 100,000 people in 1991 to about 4.0 per 100,000 in recent years.
  • Property crime, such as burglary, larceny, and motor vehicle theft, dropped by more than 60% since 1990.
  • Both urban and rural communities have benefited from these declines, although trends may vary locally.

Crime Rate Trends Table (1990–2020)​

YearViolent CrimeHomicideProperty Crime
19907299.45,073
19956848.24,590
20005075.53,618
20054695.63,431
20104044.82,944
20153734.92,487
20203986.51,958

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Is This The New Normal?

I suggested reading Jake Tapper’s book. Go to a library and check it out if you don’t want to buy it.

But first, why don’t you tell us all what decisions were made by Elon Musk in those cabinet meetings he attended that everyone on the left was up in arms about.

I'm not aware of *any* decisions by department secretaries in the cabinent meetings. Most amount to secretaries praising Trump.
As for Musk, he had termination letters to deparment employees without the knowledge of the department's cabinent secretary.

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Evolution conflict and division

Reproductive isolation as a product of genetic change is a conservative definition.

"a group of actually or potentially interbreeding natural populations that are reproductively isolated from other such groups."

A species, in the biological sense, is a group of living things that can successfully mate with each other in the wild and produce fertile offspring, but are naturally separated from other groups by barriers that prevent mixing. This means that all members of a species share a common “gene pool,” while different species remain distinct because they don’t (or can’t) regularly exchange genes. For example, all domestic dogs belong to one species because they can breed with each other, but horses and donkeys are different species because, although they can produce a mule, the mule is sterile and cannot continue the lineage
Thank you.

May I begin with understanding the first part of your definition: the phrase: "... a group of living things ...".

A biological "group" is composed of biological individuals. Right?
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No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

It is God’s Power, and not a man’s free will by which he is made willing to come to God: "Thy people shall be willing in the day of THY power..." (Psa. 110:3). One of the most forceful Scriptures that clearly demonstrates how a man comes to God says: "Blessed is the man whom THOU CHOOSEST, and CAUSEST to approach unto Thee..." (Psa. 65:4 cf. Psa. 33:12 cf. Jn. 6:44,65). Not only is God the chooser, but He is also the cause behind a man’s approaching Him. That is grace. It is not a case of God choosing, and then the man responding with a decision to approach God, but it is all of God, it is God Who chooses and it is GOD WHO IS THE CAUSE BEHIND A MAN APPROACHING HIM! Such is the inability of man—such is the Sovereign grace of God.For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure” (Phil. 2:13 cf. Eph. 2:10).https://www.godsonlygospel.com/by-grace-alone-12
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Trump's plan is working.

Did you know that the politics of all ten of those cities have been dominated by liberal mayors and liberal city councils?
Does it matter who run the city? If President Trump intends to address crime as he claims, and deploys the National Guard to Washington, DC, it would be consistent to extend this action to other cities facing similar issues. In fact, the National Guard should have been dispatched to New Orleans or Memphis prior to Washington, DC, or to Portland before Chicago, given their higher rates of crime.

As a conservative, I believe sending the National Guard to cities to reduce crime is un-American. I hope the Supreme Court ends this policy, but even if it does not, I still oppose it.

If President Trump wanted to reduce crime in America, he should have coordinated with local and state law enforcement, as well as mayors and governors, instead of deploying the National Guard. Deploying the National Guard is not a permanent solution, and unless the U.S. Constitution changes, the Supreme Court will not allow them to stay in cities long-term to combat crime. There seems little point in sending them for 30 or 60 days if crime rates return to previous levels once they leave.
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Weak summer labor market flashes warning signs for the economy

I don't know that these numbers constitute a "hit the panic button" scenario.

No, those numbers don't warrant "panic". If the trend continues of reduced hiring continues in the private sector, however, the economy will be in trouble. Why are companies not hiring? Uncertainty.
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