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Persons in creation pre-existing conception?

It is our only authority for spiritual matters.

And where it makes an end to teaching, we make an end to learning.

Scripture does not say that.

We are not to look to earthly philosophy or near death experiences likely caused by the brain as a source of revelation.

God certainly knew us since eternity past but that does not mean we physically existed.
Scripture contains wisdom books and I made quotes from several scriptures.

Some people cannot accept simple orthodox theology but think, so St Thomas Aquinas is a Dr of the Roman Catholic church. A Christian philosopher. This forum section is for philosophy.

Near death experiences contain blind testable accounts of seeing surgery from the ceiling. Some see the pains of Hell but many see the light of life and meet Jesus, angels and see a life review, with empathy and conscience for all actions they did. They may meet their ancestors in paradise, not hallucinations, but commonly from person to person the same commonalities. It has to happen to all of us one day.

I am supposing there is truth to spiritual existence before conception.
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The Church Under Fire Part 1

On May 26, 2023, the Lord led me to begin to write a short (29 pages total) book titled, “The Church Under Fire.” It is a short book with seven chapters, plus a forward, which talks about the spiritual condition of much of what is the church today, or what is called “the church” today. I am certain that the written portion of this has been (past) posted everywhere that I post my daily devotions, so if you want to read it there, you can, but I will also supply a link to the whole book, if you are interested in reading it.

Today I was being encouraged by the Lord to do some video talks where I read the chapters of the book, for those who prefer to have the book read to them rather than to read it themselves. I did read the forward and chapter one in this first video, but I am not certain yet how the other chapters will be divided up, but probably I will do one at a time. But the point of it all is to look at where the church has gone, and to what some of the repercussions have been as a result of some of them straying from God’s original purpose.

Forward

May 26, 2023

We are now living in the last days before the return of Jesus Christ, and the church, the body of Christ, the universal body of followers of Jesus Christ, is under persecution. But the persecution isn’t all physical, and it isn’t all outright and obvious, but much of it is very subtle and devious. And much of the persecution is coming from within the gatherings of the church (or what is falsely being called “church”), and from others who profess faith in Jesus Christ, and even from some pastors and elders and other church leaders.

Now, I am not certain when this all began, but I think that I began to really become aware of the magnitude of this situation beginning in 1999. Yet, I had gone through many difficult church situations over my lifetime, so I was somewhat aware already that something was terribly wrong. And now we were in a church fellowship (me, my husband, and our four adult children, plus one son’s wife), and it had been going well for a while. But then things began to change, and our children were not happy with how things were going there. And they were expressing their feelings to us.

So, my husband and I and our children began the adventure of trying to find a church gathering where we all could be ministered to, and where we could minister, which would be agreeable to all. And we landed on one that was way more modern than what some of us had ever experienced before, and it did take some getting used to. But at this time we had also begun a home Bible study for college age adults, since our two oldest children were both in college. And this church gathering appealed more to their age group.

But what this change of church environment did for me was it began to open my eyes to see the spiritual condition of much (or most) of the church (or what is falsely being called “church”) here in America. And it didn’t take long before I began to see a connection between a movement, which was started by Pastor Rick Warren, and what I began to see take place, not just in this one modern-driven gathering called “church,” but in others we tried out, too. For they all seemed to be following his “Purpose Driven Church” movement.

For it didn’t matter what gathering we visited, or what church denomination it was affiliated with, they all appeared to be following that same “purpose driven church” model. But I am certain that was not the only influence, but it looked like they were all using Mr. Warren’s materials for how to grow their churches, and for how to draw in large crowds of people from the world. And we were learning new phrases all the time which we had never heard before, such as “seeker sensitive” and “stay in your own lane,” etc. For I didn’t know that this movement was going on within the gatherings of the church.

But let me stop here and say that the church is not a building called “church.” And it is not a church denomination. And it should not be a corporation under the state, but it appears that most all of them are now. So, using the term “church” gets very confusing because most people now associate “church” with a building or with a church denomination or with particular religious rituals and traditions, many of which are not biblically based at all, or they are very loosely connected to the Scriptures.

But the true church, the body of Christ, is the collective body of all who have trusted in Jesus Christ to be Lord and Savior of our lives, who have been crucified with Christ in death to sin, and who have been raised with Christ to walk in newness of life in him, no longer living as slaves to sin, but now as slaves to God and to his righteousness. We should be those who are now living under the control of the Holy Spirit, who are doing the will of God, and who are serving the Lord and one another as God has called us all to do.

Nonetheless, the church has become, for the most part, businesses of men, incorporated under the state, marketing their product to the people of the world just like any other human-based business. And so marketing books and marketing training seminars are largely replacing the Scriptures and the Holy Spirit, and these marketing goals and objectives are what are driving these “churches” rather than the leading of the Holy Spirit, and rather than the call of God on all of our lives to be his possession and to do His Work.

And, if I had not ventured out and visited many different “churches” of different denominations, I probably would not have known what is really going on under the name of “church,” and under the name of “Jesus Christ,” and under the name of “the gospel” and “salvation.” And my husband and I and our children were not just spectators in these “churches,” but we got involved in areas of ministry, which is how you can really learn what is going on behind the scenes. And that was, as I said, very eye opening for me.

The Church Under Fire Part 1

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An Original Work / November 3, 2025
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love


Link to whole book:

Persons in creation pre-existing conception?

From Scripture, philosophy and experiences like those of near death survivors,

Scripture does not say that.

We are not to look to earthly philosophy or near death experiences likely caused by the brain as a source of revelation.

God certainly knew us since eternity past but that does not mean we physically existed.
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Christian aid groups denounce Trump for cutting refugee resettlement to historic low

It's not surprising. Trump has tended to focus on religious symbols more than the substance of religious belief or practice.

Some Catholic clergy are taking issue with the administration cutting funding to chapel support services in the US military:

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AI’s growth is exponential: What are the implications for humans and the Church?

.... while I think the jury is still out on the fullest implication of A.I. as a part of modern technology, I've been leaning toward something akin to John Lennox's sentiments on the subject, and I've been doing so for the past couple of decades. That's all I'll say on the topic.

I think Nick Kim's analysis also focuses alot on a particular Protestant view of human personhood, too: intelligence as measured by use of instrumental reason and, moreover, efficiency.

Sure, if your religious tradition views human personhood as fulfilled and sanctified through selling your labor to capital in the name of greater efficiency (which is pretty much synonymous with how Protestants have traditionally thought of work), AI can look really threatening. But technology and automation has been eroding that for decades, and one might argue, it's coming from a benighted perspective to fail to see how alot of the "damage" has already been done, and alot of AI is just the "coup de grace" to what is a long story beginning with Britain and the Netherland's economic and industrial innovations.
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Morality without Absolute Morality

I am well aware, but what is the "x" that's supposed to lead to the y? In order to be valid, there must be a relationship between x and y such that the statement that if x, then y holds water. Otherwise it's a non-sequitor. So what is the relationship?
We'll get to that. But you've said that the moral conclusion as to whether you should be physically struck is already in the statement 'You will be hurt and angry'. There is no moral component anywhere in that and that is plainly obvious. And...as I skipped a post I can see you've commented on that. So...to continue.
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Stranger Things

The housing bubble primarily affected properties that were never intended to be actual affordable housing in the first place. Since then, affordable housing has not been built.

Couch surfing isn't a serious remedy for the shortage of affordable housing.
Lets not nitpick here.

The whole point of the federal reserve is to play games with the interest rates and make money off of it.

we have known this for 100 years and should be investing accordingly. The poor will always be with you....
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The Pharisees are winning

The thought occured to me with all the moral outrage and Culture wars over peoples behaviour and even what they believe and think as being wrong.

How its all focused on virtual signalling, being asociated with the right side of history. Identity politics which divides people into groups that moralise each other about wrong speak and behaviour and preaching how it should be. How everyone must think, believe and behave.

These seem to me the traits of the Pharisees. Who formed a group who looked down on other groups and even within their own religion. An early form of identity politics. But now we have political ideologies filling the void as well as religious ones. We see this in how even the church itself is divided into groups who claim to be the pious ones reflecting the wider society.

We have seen the rise of cancel culture and Wokism which is a form of religious dogma that pushes a certain moral code of behaviour but also thinking and demands that people bow the knee to it.

So the Pharisee mindset has been cultivated or has been allowed to flourish in a postmodernist world where there is no God and truth in Christ. .

If you consider this was one thing Jesus dispised which was the hypocracy of using religion or politics and rules to force people to conform to what was really the desires of a corrupt heart to be the gods of this world. Its another sign of how much the worlds hearts have turned away from God. From Christs truth.

Stranger Things

House prices were a bubble that popped 2007 because the federal reserve floating ballance sheet finally blew up.

The housing bubble primarily affected properties that were never intended to be actual affordable housing in the first place. Since then, affordable housing has not been built.

Couch surfing isn't a serious remedy for the shortage of affordable housing.
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Persons in creation pre-existing conception?

Not all persons can accept that idea. There are philosophers, mystics and orthodox. The scriptures are a summary and some issues are only touched upon. It invites questions. So Thomas Aquinas in Catholic history sought to make a Christian philosophy bridging with the Greek philosophers. And Aquinas accepted speculative theology. Philosophers speculate and theorise and test...

Apart from that, God can give a person a revelation of truths as with Abraham and Moses... but they know it but cannot well express it to others like we have Bible revelations. It is personal for them, and in the end, we all have them, when we die and see the light of life and meet God. And one in twenty five people have an NDE, so someone you know.

And I did quote scripture above. What do you think of my quotes?

I am supposing that sons of God did not see God's face but rejoiced with the morning stars revelation of God.
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Letita Jamews indicted for fraud

I thought you might like this. A general round up of how the court cases have been going. Long read though.

Thanks! That's very informative.

-- A2SG, we are definitely living in "interesting times"....
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