CerebralCherub said:

Hi David,

I have researched this since your post and come across this which seems to agree with my initial thoughts about what Jesus said:

Luke 22:42 - Jesus Prays on the Mount of Olives

Study Bible

Book ◦ Chapter

Father,
This term reflects the intimate relationship between Jesus and God, emphasizing His divine sonship. In Jewish culture, addressing God as "Father" was not common, highlighting Jesus' unique position. This relationship is central to understanding the Trinity and the nature of Jesus' mission.
if You are willing,
This phrase acknowledges God's sovereignty and Jesus' submission to His divine plan. It reflects the tension between Jesus' human desire to avoid suffering and His commitment to fulfill God's will. This submission is a model for believers, illustrating the importance of aligning personal desires with God's purposes.

take this cup from Me.
The "cup" symbolizes the impending suffering and crucifixion Jesus is about to endure. In the Old Testament, the cup often represents God's wrath and judgment (e.g., Psalm 75:8, Isaiah 51:17). Jesus' request to have the cup removed underscores His awareness of the physical and spiritual agony He is about to face, fulfilling prophecies such as Isaiah 53.

Yet not My will,
This phrase highlights the dual nature of Christ, fully human and fully divine. Jesus expresses a natural human desire to avoid pain, yet He prioritizes divine will over personal preference. This submission is a key aspect of His role as the obedient Son, contrasting with Adam's disobedience in the Garden of Eden.

but Yours be done.
This ultimate submission to God's will is central to the Christian understanding of obedience and sacrifice. It reflects Jesus' role as the perfect servant, fulfilling prophecies like Isaiah 42:1. This act of surrender is pivotal in the narrative of salvation, demonstrating the path of true discipleship and trust in God's plan.

I find it interesting that 2 people are reading 1 verse and there are 2 different views but mine remains the same. What about yours? Do you have anywhere I can refer to with a view similar to yours?

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I think we are agreed. It wasn't merely death that Jesus was praying to His Father about, but all that His particular death involved - the betrayal, the sham trials before Pilate and the High Priest, the denial by Peter, the scourging, the mockery, but most of all, the enormous weight of the sin of His people.

johansen said:

The insurance companies will know.

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Only if it's covered, which is rare, and only if the prescription goes through them. Otherwise, why would they?

The Liturgist said:

Indeed, it is clear that the offices of Presbyter and Bishop diverged between the mid 1st century and the time of St. Ignatius of Antioch, who outlines the hierarchy we have at present. I suspect this division was due to the repose of the Apostles, with the archpresbyters assuming the title episkopoi, but it could have gone the other way.

Practically speaking, the Presbyterians reinvented the bare minimum function of tne episcopal office in the form of the Moderators of your assemblies - that function being the traditional Episcopal function, but I am sympathetic to why the trauma of the Western church caused you to wish to jettison the monarchial bishops. In the East we love our bishops, but the laity can usually with some difficulty force out a noxious bishop or override their decisions (this has happened - it is rare, but the classic example of the laity overriding the decisions of the hierarchy was the rejection of the Council of Florence, which was approved by both the Eastern Orthodox and Armenian Apostolic hierarchies, with the exception on the EO side of St. Mark of Ephesus - I can’t recall exactly how things occurred in the Armenian church, but it was along these approximate lines.

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I think officially the whole Presbytery (the assembly, not the geographical region) is our equivalent of a bishop.

SabbathBlessings said:

So the church knows more than the Holy Spirit.

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I never said that, indeed I have maintained the opposite position, that the Church in compiling the Nicene Creed, the New Testament canon, and in preserving apostolic docfrines relies on the guidance of the Spirit. The teaching ministry of the Church is the means by which the Holy Spirit communicates, for the Spirit is able to speak through the hierarchy of the One Holy Catholic Church and Apostolic Church, however one defines it. This view is in full accord with the Nicene Creed.

SabbathBlessings said:

despite no church agreeing on doctrine.

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False. Aside from the fact that all Orthodox churches agree on doctrine, additionally, all traditional liturgical churches (Orthodox, Lutheran, Anglican, Catholic, traditional Methodist, liturgical Calvinist, Congregationalist), which also represent most of the faithful, agree on most points of doctrine, including the Trinity, the Incarnation, Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, the status of Mary as Theotokos, the use of Icons, certain points of soteriology and eschatology, and importantly, worship on all days of the week and not just the seventh day, for Christ said “pray without ceasing,” and for this reason we are in the process of reunification.

Additionally, all Christian churches, including yours, agree on some doctrine, such as the Nicene Creed and the contents of the New Testament. So a church that rejects the Trinity, the Incarnation, the canonicity of the 27 books of the New Testament, the Apostolate of St. Paul, and the Nicene Creed is not, according to the ecumenical consensus, Christian. Thus we do not count Unitarians, Swedenborgians, Mormons, J/Ws, Christian Science, Oneness Pentecostals or related heretics as being within the fold of the Christian Church, since they reject the doctrines associated with the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church through the Nicene Creed (however one defines the One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church - the definition of Catholicity is disputed due to schism, and I have outlined before the different ways most Christians define it, yet you seem to insist that in all cases Catholic means the Roman Catholic Church headed by the Pope, which is ironically the same definition used by Roman Catholics, who ironically also conduct the most worship on Saturday.

Tropical Wilds said:

What’s the article title on MSNBC so we can read it, for those of us who don’t click random links…

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Some of the commentary on MSNBC about this sad event is vile and not worth reading or listening to. One commentator on MSNBC has been fired for insensitive comments on Kirk’s assassination.

John Robie said:

The people who have abortions, perform abortions, make pills to cause abortions, etc., do not value human life. Those who support a woman’s so-called right to kill her child do not value human life. Those who turn a blind eye to this do not value human life. So why care about Charlie Kirk or Iryna Zarutska? They are just as disposable as an unborn child.

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Hold the on. You were only just explaining how you not caring about abortion meant that Kirk’s death was just meh.

Something smells fishy here…..

Zaha Torte said:

Those who advocate for abortion do not value human life and tend to justify violence and murder as long as it happens to those whose existence they deem inconvenient.

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That’s everyone.

John Robie said:

…killing Charlie Kirk is just meh.

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Weird flex but you do you I guess?

pawkiki said:

Yeah, I realize that.... There are so many other instances... How does a recording lie?

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Thank you for your response and prayers!

CerebralCherub said:

I don't know that I would class it as spying. Spouses shouldn't have secrets. My husband can look at my phone any time he wishes and I wouldn't care at all and he's the same with me. I will pray for you. Some of the questions you have may conclude with painful answers.

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Yeah, I realize that.... There are so many other instances... How does a recording lie?

essentialsaltes said:

"What's with Russia violating Poland's airspace with drones?" Trump said.

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We’ll find out in two weeks.

Hvizsgyak said:

I wouldn't be surprised if they are in on the coverup too. The schooling system I feel is that corrupt and nobody wants to stand up and take the blame for it.

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Ah. So we’ve wandered into conspiracy territory. That’s when my eyes glaze over. The idea that things are the way they are because a vast network of people in all schools, spanning 50 states and the federal government have united together to secretly execute a directive is just too ludicrous for words.

Hvizsgyak said:

I don't mean to be disrespectful here but you are sounding like someone who feels these new ways to learn (that teachers need to adopt) are the greatest stuff in the world when all they do is get so-so achievements and are replace the following year by some other new teaching fad. You say memorization is good for short term memory - funny, I still know all the answers to my multiplication tables from 3rd or 4th grade. I still know how to spell almost every word that I was given in spelling tests. And so much more, all due to memorization.

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The reason you know how to spell your spelling test words is because you’re now in an advanced age and all those words were ones taught to small children. And the goal of spelling tests has shifted from simply just remembering how to spell “their” to logical deduction, that the rule that causes “their” to be spelled the way it is means that you can guess how words like thief, tier, and piece are also spelled. And instead of blind memorization of multiplication tables (which they still do, BTW), understanding how multiplication works so that when you hit 9x13, you can figure it out instead of parroting an answer. Especially since studies have shown that memorization of multiplication tables taps into sequential memorization, not actual concept memorization. Meaning, they can tell you 9x8 after going through 9x 1-7, but not when you ask them to give the answer without the sequence.

It’s why so many people believe in Terryology despite it being the dumbest concept on the planet. They don’t understand why 1x1=1, they simply memorized it, so when somebody says it actually equals 2, they believe it. It’s also why we have flat earth believers and people who dispute basic scientific facts… They were told “memorize this” and not “the world cannot possibly be flat because…” Memorization has its place, but using it now like you used it 45 years ago is lazy teaching.

Hvizsgyak said:

I graduated from college with a BS in Computer Science. I was a techie for the longest time. But I admit, there have been way too many advancements for me to keep track of so, I just learn what I want now. I'm all for technology in the classroom. I'm a person who learns more hands-on and visually and I suspect kids nowadays do that more so. Thats excellent but when students just sit there and oodle their IPhones all through class and do not pay attention to the teacher, there's a problem.

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If kids are playing with phones instead of listening to the teacher, that’s a problem with distraction, not teaching method. If it’s an iPhone, a note you’re writing to pass between class, a doodle you’re drawing in the margin, a book you’re clandestinely reading under your desk, you’re distracted and that will impact learning. That has nothing to do with teaching methods, but classroom behavior.

The idea that what worked 45 years ago to teach is what works today, however, is ludicrous. The world and what kids need to know has totally changed in 45 years. We are the only country who insists that what was good enough for us as kids is good enough for our kids and is comfortable with that level of educational complacency.

Riley, I'm currently dealing with what hopefully is only swelling of my right masseter muscle. Let's pray for each other.

adrianmonk said:

Login to view embedded media (may have some language that offends some)

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Poor Trump - he missed out on walking down the red carpet swinging pinkies with his autocratic pals!

iluvatar5150 said:

It’s only violent and hateful when it’s directed at Republicans.

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I’m sorry, can you link ANYTHING that has a conservative encouraging violence to the left. I can provide many of the reverse including Biden telling someone to take out Trump minutes after he was shot.

Israel can't afford to treat Palestinians fairly.
They're economically addicted to marketing their advanced drones & other weapons (like some of those enormous bombs with a 600 meter radius kill zone) as 'battle tested in Palestine.' They refused to listen to the UN at their very founding over 70 years ago - and took Jerusalem which was meant to be independent UN territory. They ignored the boundaries drawn up by the UN, and ignored that the Palestinians were meant to be an independent state. And then - with the right to defend themselves - there was the 6 days war in 1967.

And thus, the persecuted become the persecutors.

Those who were economically discriminated against - continue to do so in an apartheid system in Israel for Arabs that work there.
Those who were shoved from their own shops and property by the Nazis, now shove Palestinians from their shops and property.
Those who were rounded up and forced into ghetto's - now do the same to Palestinians.
Those who were trapped behind barbed wire fences have now walled off the world's largest open air jails in Gaza and the West Bank.

I detest the methods of Hamas. I want them to return the hostages, lay down their arms and turn over all Palestinian territory to a new UN negotiated Palestinian Authority. I condemn the barbaric terrorist attack of Hamas against civilian non-combatants. But just as I condemn that - and lament the loss of over a thousand innocent Israelis, how much more must I lament the death of over 65,000 Gazans? 20,000 children!!??

What happened to 'proportional response'? To obeying the rules of just war theory?

Israel is now committing war crimes left right and centre with impunity.
They are no longer what I would call a 'liberal democracy' and should be pushed from the club of democratic nations and sanctioned just as we sanctioned South Africa's Apartheid.

Watching the TV - and thinking a that a middle-income country like this could be reduced to the natural-disaster scale famines we see in Africa - and it's ALL ISRAEL's fault - as in 100% their fault - is just REVOLTING!

SO WHY DOES AMERICA VETO UN EFFORTS TO SANCTION ISRAEL?

DaisyDay said:

Perhaps they could take their own advice to heart?

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It’s only violent and hateful when it’s directed at Republicans.

There’s a line from a song that says “Hey man take a look at this mess, everybody’s busy building idols out of human flesh. I can’t get it out of my head, convenient resurrection, at my discretion, taking on the name in vain.”

The cross (in the language of God) is a conscious truth, or truth of the soul that begins with a tree in a garden …

(Skims posts and shakes head)

For years now I've feared that the US would one day become Bleeding Kansas from coast to coast. I've seen nothing in these posts that change that opinion, other than it may be closer than I feared.

The basics of the matter is a person of a particular political viewpoint was murdered by someone who likely disagreed with him. He could have been up there talking about the Flying Spaghetti Monster for all I care. What he was talking about isn't as important as what was done in disagreement: Straight up murder.

That's the point where we are this morning. That's the thing of concern. Talking about what Kirk believed or what others believed is irrelevant. The only relevant point is that someone thought it was proper to murder someone to silence a difference of opinion. If we can't see that, then I may live to see the very thing I've feared: Bloody Kansas writ large. And if that happens, I pray that God will preserve us all.

Valletta said:

Conservatives have been urging people to pull back on the hatred and violent rhetoric.

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Perhaps they could take their own advice to heart?

Nithavela said:

He probably would have also thought different when it would have been his own kids.

I'm not accusing him of hypocrisy. It's a healthy part of human psychology that we are unable to care for everyone equally. Imagine how horrible it would be if you'd grieve for all the famished and diseased children of the world as much as if they were your own child. I think I've read that the maximum amount of people most people are able to care on more than an abstract level about is around 150, with close friends ranking high and close family members ranking highest of all in most cases.

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Perfectly reasonable. That 150 sounds about right. But I wonder how parasocial relationships fit it in?

My guess is people burst into floods of tears when famous people die but not kids in schools is because the don’t have parasocial relationships with those kids.