• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

OT: RIP Patricia Rutledge

I think my favorite character on that show was Onslow. He comes walking back into the living room, and his wife says, "Who was at the door, luv?"

Onslow: "Gypsies, lookin' for a handout. I sent the lot of 'em packin'!"

Daisy: "You shouldn't 'ave done that, Onslow!"

Onslow: "And why not?"

Daisy: "Because they're Gypsies! It's bad luck to turn them away!"

Onslow: "Bad luck?!?? Look around, Daisy! We 'ave to live like this, and you're worried about bad luck???"

^_^
Upvote 0

Higher Property Taxes Increase Home Affordability

I'll admit - the first time I read this article title, I thought it was either a typo, or that I was reading it incorrectly.

I don't like paying higher property taxes, but at least there's a societal advantage to it that goes beyond the extra dollars going to schools and whatnot.

(Yes, old article. But thought provoking, nonetheless.)

Expense is expense, whether we think the expense is justified or not. When I was a young man, I wanted a truck, but couldn't afford the insurance. Insurance is a good and necessary thing, but it still put it out of my reach. Whatever one thinks about property taxes, they do add to the expense of home ownership. Someone who doesn't factor that it could very well be headed for trouble. The legal notices are filled with foreclosures and tax sales.
Upvote 0

Are the Four Angels letting loose the Four Winds

Events are changing to bring about the day of God which hasteth greatly. Only a moment of time, as it were, yet remains.
Reddogs, Not sure when Mrs. White made the statement above, but for sure before her death in 1915. That was 110 years ago, over a century. Obviously this statement was her own belief and not something God revealed to her. And since the 144,000 have not yet been sealed to my knowledge, and the four winds have not yet been released, it is quite obvious she was mistaken. Which most likely you are not able to admit.

Since Mrs. White's writings were a lesser light to lead her readers to the greater light, the Bible, could you share with me from prophecy, what those four winds will be? Too, from prophecy, can you show how the 144,000 shall serve God, since He calls them His "servants", during the time in which the four winds shall blow upon the earth?
Upvote 0

Hell doesn't exist and there is no eternal suffering, instead bad peolle just cease to exist

1 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding...
17 Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?
18 Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all. - Job 38
Upvote 0

How to Respond to the Cross-Dressing Man at Mass? DIFFICULT MORAL QUESTIONS: What we do and what we tolerate both witness to what we believe.

Huh…..

does it help if we change the styling on the kilt?


View attachment 371045
If these guys really want to complete the look, then they need to ditch the shoes and socks, and switch to pantyhose and five-inch heels.
Upvote 0

Hell doesn't exist and there is no eternal suffering, instead bad peolle just cease to exist

1 Timothy 3-4 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
But they need to come to repentance.

“I have not come to call the righteous to repentance, but sinners.””
‭‭Luke‬ ‭5‬:‭32‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬
Upvote 0

Why Earth Is the Only Place in the Solar System That Has Fire

Oxygen is not the only oxidizer in the universe. Fuming Nitric acid would have been great in rocket fuel if they could only find a way to stop it eating through stainless steel tanks. Chlorine trifluride will burn things that have already burnt to ash (search for "sand won't save you this time"), and will happily consume bricks and concrete.
  • Like
Reactions: Vambram
Upvote 0

Hell doesn't exist and there is no eternal suffering, instead bad peolle just cease to exist

per·ish
/ˈperiSH/
Google Search
verb

  1. suffer death, typically in a violent, sudden, or untimely way.
    "a great part of his army perished of hunger and disease"
a. of persons;
α. properly: Matthew 8:25; Luke 13:3, 5, 33; John 11:50; 2 Peter 3:6; Jude 1:11, etc.; ἀπόλλυμαι λιμῷ, Luke 15:17; ἐν μαχαίρᾳ, Matthew 26:52; καταβαλλόμενοι, ἀλλ’ οὐκ ἀπολλύμενοι, 2 Corinthians 4:9.
β. tropically, to incur the loss of true or eternal life; to be delivered up to eternal misery:
John 3:15 [R L brackets], John 3:16; John 10:28; 17:12 (it must be borne in mind, that according to John's conception eternal life begins on earth, just as soon as one becomes united to Christ by faith); Romans 2:12; 1 Corinthians 8:11; 1 Corinthians 15:18; 2 Peter 3:9. Hence, οἱ σωζόμενοι they to whom it belongs to partake of salvation, and οἱ ἀπολλύμενοι those to whom it belongs to perish or to be consigned to eternal misery, are contrasted by Paul: 1 Corinthians 1:18; 2 Corinthians 2:15; 2 Corinthians 4:3; 2 Thessalonians 2:10 (on these present participles, cf. Winers Grammar, 342 (321); Buttmann, 206 (178)).
Upvote 0

There’s a Giant Flaw in Human History

I decided to do an experiment to get GPT-5 to calculate the circularity/concentricity and compare the values based on Steve’s Post #506 video on the OG vase.
GPT-5 did the heavy work, I made suggestions on how to deal with outliers, to correctly seat the scanned vase so its rotation axis is perpendicular to a horizontal surface and how to calibrate the code.
No corrections due to cylindricity were made, I wanted a direct comparison to the video.

For those that are interested here is the GPT-5's Python code.

import os
import numpy as np
import trimesh
import matplotlib.pyplot as plt
import pandas as pd

# ------------------------------
# STL path
# ------------------------------
stl_path = r"C:\vase\Thinwall STL.stl"
if not os.path.exists(stl_path):
raise FileNotFoundError(f"STL file not found at: {stl_path}")

# ------------------------------
# Load mesh
# ------------------------------
mesh = trimesh.load(stl_path, force='mesh')
if not isinstance(mesh, trimesh.Trimesh):
raise RuntimeError("STL did not load as a valid Trimesh object.")

# ------------------------------
# Repair mesh
# ------------------------------
mesh.fill_holes()
mesh.update_faces(mesh.nondegenerate_faces())
mesh.remove_unreferenced_vertices()
mesh.update_faces(mesh.unique_faces())
mesh.merge_vertices()

# ------------------------------
# Scale to physical height
# ------------------------------
physical_height_mm = 125.48
zmin, zmax = mesh.bounds[:,2]
current_height = zmax - zmin
scale_factor = physical_height_mm / current_height
mesh.vertices *= scale_factor

# ------------------------------
# Align principal axis to Z (ensures perpendicular to horizontal plane)
# ------------------------------
verts = mesh.vertices - mesh.vertices.mean(axis=0)
cov = np.cov(verts.T)
eigvals, eigvecs = np.linalg.eigh(cov)
principal_axis = eigvecs[:, np.argmax(eigvals)]
if principal_axis[2] < 0:
principal_axis = -principal_axis
mesh.apply_transform(trimesh.geometry.align_vectors(principal_axis, [0,0,1]))

# ------------------------------
# Slice mesh (2000 slices)
# ------------------------------
num_slices = 2000
zmin, zmax = mesh.bounds[:,2]
heights = np.linspace(zmin, zmax, num_slices)
sections = mesh.section_multiplane(
plane_origin=[0,0,zmin],
plane_normal=[0,0,1],
heights=heights
)

# ------------------------------
# Helper: distance from points to line
# ------------------------------
def distance_to_line(points, p0, v):
w = points - p0
d = np.linalg.norm(np.cross(w, v), axis=1) / np.linalg.norm(v)
return d

# ------------------------------
# Gather slice data
# ------------------------------
slice_centers = []
circ_rms_values = []
slice_z_vals = []

for idx, path in enumerate(sections):
if path is None:
continue
polygons = path.polygons_full
if not polygons:
continue
poly = max(polygons, key=lambda p: p.area)
coords = np.array(poly.exterior.coords)
if coords.shape[0] < 3:
continue

xc, yc = np.mean(coords[:,0]), np.mean(coords[:,1])
slice_center = np.array([xc, yc, heights[idx]])
slice_centers.append(slice_center)
slice_z_vals.append(heights[idx])

r = np.sqrt((coords[:,0]-xc)**2 + (coords[:,1]-yc)**2)
rms_circ = np.sqrt(np.mean((r - np.mean(r))**2))
circ_rms_values.append(rms_circ)

slice_centers = np.array(slice_centers)
circ_rms_values = np.array(circ_rms_values)
slice_z_vals = np.array(slice_z_vals)

if len(slice_centers) < 5:
raise RuntimeError("Not enough valid slices for analysis")

# ------------------------------
# Fit best-fit 3D axis using PCA
# ------------------------------
mean_point = slice_centers.mean(axis=0)
centered_points = slice_centers - mean_point
cov_matrix = np.cov(centered_points.T)
eigvals, eigvecs = np.linalg.eigh(cov_matrix)
axis_dir = eigvecs[:, np.argmax(eigvals)]
if axis_dir[2] < 0:
axis_dir = -axis_dir

# ------------------------------
# Concentricity = RMS distance from slice centers to axis
# ------------------------------
conc_rms_values = np.sqrt(np.mean(distance_to_line(slice_centers, mean_point, axis_dir)**2))

# ------------------------------
# Exclude outliers using 5–95 percentile for circularity
# ------------------------------
lower, upper = np.percentile(circ_rms_values, [5, 95])
mask = (circ_rms_values >= lower) & (circ_rms_values <= upper)
circ_rms_values_filtered = circ_rms_values[mask]
slice_centers_filtered = slice_centers[mask]

# Recompute concentricity RMS with filtered slices
conc_rms_values_filtered = np.sqrt(np.mean(distance_to_line(slice_centers_filtered, mean_point, axis_dir)**2))

# Median values
median_circ_rms = np.median(circ_rms_values_filtered)
median_conc_rms = np.median(conc_rms_values_filtered)
parameter_P = np.sqrt(median_circ_rms * median_conc_rms)

# ------------------------------
# Output results
# ------------------------------
print(f"Valid slices analyzed (after filtering): {len(circ_rms_values_filtered)}")
print(f"Median circularity RMS (mm): {median_circ_rms:.6f}")
print(f"Median concentricity RMS (mm): {median_conc_rms:.6f}")
print(f"(Circularity × Concentricity)^0.5 (mm): {parameter_P:.6f}")

# ------------------------------
# Export CSV
# ------------------------------
df = pd.DataFrame({
'z_mm': slice_z_vals[mask],
'circularity_rms_mm': circ_rms_values_filtered,
})
csv_path = r"C:\vase\vase_metrology_2000_slices_rms_filtered.csv"
df.to_csv(csv_path, index=False)
print(f"CSV saved to {csv_path}")

# ------------------------------
# Plot
# ------------------------------
plt.figure(figsize=(12,5))
plt.plot(slice_z_vals[mask], circ_rms_values_filtered, marker='.', markersize=2, label='Circularity RMS (mm)')
plt.xlabel('Z position (mm)')
plt.ylabel('RMS deviation (mm)')
plt.title('Vase Metrology (Filtered, 2000 slices)')
plt.legend()
plt.grid(True)
plt.tight_layout()
plt.savefig(r"C:\vase\vase_metrology_plot_rms_filtered.png", dpi=150)
plt.show()
The Python code, Steve's video and Maximus.energy method of calculating the concentricity and circularity are not recognized as being ISO 1011 compliant which is the series of standards for Geometrical Product Specifications (GPS). These standards ensure that measurements of form errors are consistent, reproducible, and traceable in industrial metrology.
It gets back to my point only approved professional metrology software should be used for analysis.

To make sure the Python code would give sensible results, an artificial STL file of a perfect tube using the same mesh resolution as the highest resolution scan of the OG vase was run.
In a perfect world the median values for concentricity, circularity and the parameter √(concentricity x circularity) should all equal zero.

After running the Python code:

tube.png


Given the mesh is not composed of infinitesimally small elements, in the real world the extremely small values are acceptable.

The next step was to run the code against the high resolution scan of the OG vase.

OG.png


√(concentricity x circularity) = 0.650 mm compared to √(concentricity x circularity) = 0.027 mm in the video which is nearly 25X greater.

It would be very easy for @stevevw to state the Python code is wrong but since the word expert has been thrown around in this thread, AI is now considered to be on par with the very best human Python coders.
When the OG vase was scanned and analysed using Zeiss Inspector in post #548 indicating a far from perfect symmetry around an axis of revolution, the Python result is most probably far closer to the truth.
Upvote 0

Why we Christians still have to struggle with sins?

Well, I'll tell you what,..... I'm going to go with what Jesus actually said about what works we are to perform.

I think obeying Him is way more important.
Jesus said in (John 17:3-4) (v.3) And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. (v.4) I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. Yes Jesus did much work. He is the captain of our salvation and the captain is leading by his example, by his works.

Now Paul says in (Phil. 2:12) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Now if you need not work, then why is Paul telling you to “WORK” out your own salvation, and pay close attention because he also says with “fear and trembling”.

Jesus said in (Matt. 19:16-17) (v.16) And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? That’s what we are all trying to obtain correct, eternal life? (v.17) And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. Now if you want to enter into eternal life you most keep the commandments. Sounds like a little work to me.
Upvote 0

The Son of Man and the Throne Room

Hi Marilyn, this is not a matter of Scripture so much as a matter of common sense interpretation. For Jesus to return "just as he went" means to me that he returns to earth. And Jesus telling his disciplees that he will drink wine with them again suggests an earthly environment.

Amillennialists simply dismiss this, and I respect their viewpoint--it is a long-standing Christian argument. I just happen to disagree for the reason given.
And who did Jesus say that to? And who were asking about the Lord setting up His kingdom rule through Israel? Acts 1: 6)
Upvote 0

Why we Christians still have to struggle with sins?

The work of God is to believe in who He sent, and He sent Jesus Christ for all the reasons He did in the gospel, the most reason of all is to show the love of God, in simplicity, so with Jesus you have freedom from law, you do as you are led, we see that in every example of Christ, we see the Pharisees as an opposing example, to find fault with just about everything Jesus did, but the fault was in them doing set ways, that were not from the love of God at all, mercy faith, etc.



Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.



So a greater law was in front of the Pharisees, as greater testimony is in front of those who do or promote the same old ways, again we saw no set law for Apostle Paul, we instead see the same Jews against Him with their law, but we see them overcome by the same freedom in Christ, and shown the highest example of what charity is, how it is greater than all other things, no matter how much knowledge a person may consider thy have, it is charity alone that edifies, and that is seen in the cross of Christ, in meekness, and temperance, the Pharisees have no law against these, yet they did not do them, it is Christ alone that did, and they that are His, have also crucified their flesh with all affections and lusts.



Galatians 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Paul says in (1Tim. 6:17-19) (v.17) Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not high-minded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; (v.18) That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; (v.19) Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life. Riches and gains that is the doctrine of today, they are preaching the gospel of prosperity and not the gospel of the coming of the kingdom of God. But the Lord said to charge them that are rich in this world that they be not high-minded, but that they should be rich in good works that they may lay hold on eternal life.

Lets go into (James 2: (v.14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him? (v.15) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of a daily food, (v.16) And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? If someone came to you hungry and needed clothes and all you told them was peace be unto you, and God bless you, be ye warmed and filled. All you did was give lip service, no works, you didn’t help the problem.

(v.17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. The bible has been telling you all alone that you must have fruits to prove your faith. (v.18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. True faith goes hand in hand with good works. (v.20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Did you know that? Has anybody ever read this verse to you? How can you, after reading this verse ever say again that we need not work? You can have all the faith you want, but if you have no works to go along with that faith, that faith is in vain, that faith is dead.

(v.21) Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? We read where Abraham, the father of the faithful showed the Lord his faith by his works. (v.22) Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? (v.23) And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND IT WAS IMPUTED UNTO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS: and he was called the friend of God. (v.24) Ye see then how that by works a man is Justified, and not by faith only. Do you see that also? Do you understand that you need works to go along with that faith; if you love and fear God then you should have no problem obeying his commandments.

(v.25) Likewise also was not Ra’-hab the harlot justified by works, when she received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? Ra’-hab showed her faith in God and her fear of God by doing good works. (v.26) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. Take it or leave it, but this is the true uncut word of God. Just as the body is dead when you take away the spirit (breath) so faith is dead if you have no works.
Upvote 0

Morality without Absolute Morality

Love involves self-transcendence, creativity, sacrifice, and meaning that seem to exceed mere reproductive fitness.
Indeed. I agree. Just be aware that from the day I started becoming interested in evolution in 1967 (see The Naked Ape by Desmond Morris in the list of books I posted) I haven't grown less in love with my wife as my knowledge of the subject has grown (she's sitting opposite me as I write this).
Upvote 0

Trump admin. concedes Maryland man from El Salvador was mistakenly deported/sent to mega prison - shrugs 'nothing can be done' [ETA: oh but it can!]

U.S. District Judge Waverly Crenshaw found that comments from senior Department of Justice (DOJ) officials, including Attorney General Pam Bondi, raised a “realistic likelihood” that the department sought immigrant smuggling charges against Abrego Garcia for vindictive reasons.
Trump vindictive? Great Caesar's ghost! You mean, it could all be a bunch of hooey? Is it possible that so many people fell for the lies? Surely not!
Upvote 0

Why we Christians still have to struggle with sins?

Making sure that I take care of my family the best that I can and not unduly burden the church with my temporal neccesities

The Lord’s words in Matthew 16:25–26 are not teaching that eternal life is earned by our own obedience to commandments and statutes, but that true faith in Him produces a transformed life. Jesus is contrasting the one who clings to self and worldly gain with the one who trusts Him even unto death. Salvation is never conditioned on human works, for Scripture says plainly, “By grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast” (Ephesians 2:8–9). The call to “lose one’s life” is the call of faith—to lay aside self-reliance and worldly trust and to embrace Christ as Lord and Savior. Good fruits will indeed follow, but they are the evidence of salvation, not the grounds of it: “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works” (Ephesians 2:10). Therefore, Jesus’ warning about gaining the world and losing the soul is not a command to secure eternal life by our own law-keeping, but an invitation to forsake empty self-sufficiency and receive His righteousness by faith.


Through faith in Christ, His perfect righteousness is imputed to believers, not earned by our works but freely given as a gift of grace. Paul writes, “For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous” (Romans 5:19). Just as Adam’s sin was imputed to all mankind, bringing condemnation, so Christ’s obedience is imputed to all who believe, bringing justification. This righteousness is not our own but is credited to us: “And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith” (Philippians 3:9). In this way, God declares the believer righteous, clothing us with Christ’s obedience so that we stand faultless before Him.
Now Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God.

So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2 :36-38). And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death, which is the lake of fire. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life but that’s another lesson for another time.

So by coming under the blood of Jesus being baptize, you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (Romans 23:3), and if you continue to live you will sin again.

When the bible speaks of laws we no longer have to keep, it is speaking of the sacrificial laws and Priesthood laws. These animal sacrificial laws were a school master pointing us to the fact that Jesus would be sacrificed for our sins. Since Jesus died we are no longer under a school master, (required to offer up bulls and goats for our sins). Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. This animal sacrificial law was only a schoolmaster.(Gal 3:24)

Now we must believe (have faith) Jesus died for us (Hebrews 10:4,9-10) 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 9 then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

This doesn't mean we don't have to obey God's moral laws of conduct. That would be like a man getting paroled from prison and then ignoring the same laws that sent him to prison in the first place. Jesus only died once, so if we willingly break God's law, after accepting Jesus, our reward will be eternal damnation

It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrew 10: 26, 27)
Upvote 0

Trump Calls For Ilhan Omar’s Removal From Congress

.Trump learned his lesson last term, he is not being "nice" again.
Trump didnt think he'd win rhe first time so he didn't have time or the possibility of setting himself up in the same way that he could in rhe last 4 years.

He was never nice.

And that's why you like him.
Upvote 0

Filter

Forum statistics

Threads
5,876,397
Messages
65,382,057
Members
276,270
Latest member
Daisyjosephine