RandyPNW said:

All laws, when they are in effect by the living word of God, are moral laws. The question becomes, are they in effect now?

When such laws are given in a set, in conjunction with an entire set of laws contained in a single covenant, then these moral laws are required as long as that covenant remains in effect. If that covenant goes away, some of those moral laws may continue in a new covenant, which we know they do.

And, I might add, if we obey laws under a particular covenant, such as the Law of Moses, we are obligated to keep all of them. We can't just select the 10 Commandments as a token of our obedience to the Law.

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Right so stop preaching the law for the Christian. The law is a curse and we are not under the curse. The law does not justify, never has and never will.

RandyPNW said:

The difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant is that the Old was required of Israel and consisted of their flawed record, but one recorded in faith. By contrast, the New Covenant is the record of Christ, which was flawless, and something he chose to give us so that we can participate with him in his own righteousness. By his spotless record we obtain with him Eternal Life.

So the moral law may be the same, at times, from Old to New Covenant. But what system we are living under makes the difference as to whether our record keeps us from Eternal Life or his flawless record enables us to receive Eternal Life.

When we obey the eternal moral law prohibitting us from murder, for example, we are obeying this as we trust in Christ to give us his life and Spirit, along with his requirement that we live through him alone, and not by our own works. We conform our works to his guidance so that what we do conforms to him the best we can. We show in this our faith that he will forgive our sins and continue to endow us with his righteousness since we've chosen to enter into covenant with him.

We either live under a system that depends upon us keeping all of those laws, moral and ritual, and preserves our flawed record. Or, we live under Christ who gives us the benefit of his own flawless record. One leads to failure, and the other leads to life.

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Quite frankly you have learned to hide what you are actually preaching but most of us can see through it. I’m only talking about the 4th commandment which is ritualistic not moral. Under the new covenant keeping the sabbath is a matter of spiritual freedom not a requirement for salvation (Col 2:16-17).

BCP1928 said:

....certainly does make the parolees into violent criminals.

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I think you meant DOESN'T, not DOES.

Larniavc said:

Yeah and in answering your question I clearly stated that there would be zero rapes were I in control.

Now; I’m sure you agree that zero rapes are better than any rapes?

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No, there would not be zero rapes if were you in control, there would in fact be many more rapes and all other forms of evil if you were in control. You could not even do that which God is willing to do and does concerning each and every individual, which is to convict all evil doers that the actions they wish to commit are in fact wrong and evil. And warn them of the future judgment they will face for committing such acts of evil. You cannot do and or effect any of this or what you have suggested, because you are not God. And thank God for that.

Nor do you know what you would actually do, if you were or could be God, knowing all that has ever been, is, and or will be from beginning to end. Therefore also approaching every issue from such knowledge, in consideration of all creation not just humanity, including the eternal effects of each and every action you might or might not take. Just like the rest of us, you have no clue at all, what you would really do with such knowledge and ultimate power. Especially regarding freedom of choice, in effecting real live individualism of and among autonomous intellectual social beings, that may exist in relation to each other and Yourself (as God), without fear.

You are not God. You will not ever be God. You do not know better than God. You are not better than God. Nor are you even capable of seeing what God can and does in relation to making proper decisions and effect for all things He has created. You simply lack faith in God, and therefore place your faith elsewhere, in the case within yourself as wiser and better than God. The original sin of the evil one, and all of fallen humanity who choose to follow him.

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

You are not at all the first to think they know and are better than God. The whole present situation regarding sin and God, exists because a being far more advanced and knowledgable than yourself, already thought so and rebelled against God because of this. The effects of which God has and is allowing to be played out once and for all, that all effected may choose for themselves which side of the issue they fall within, that the issue may be decided once and for all time. An issue far greater than just its effects upon humanity, but critical concerning all of God's creation. Far beyond that which you or I or any other fallen human being are even capable of fully grasping, let alone deal with in an effective, all embracing, and eternal manner. In the end we will all bow the knee, including you, and confess God's righteous judgment and actions concerning all things related to this issue at hand.

Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. 24 Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.

Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

jonojim1337 said:

One doesn’t have to exclude the other. I think there is room for both a continued existence and some form of rebirth, or return to the earth.

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Egyptian mythology probably doesn’t help much. However, I believe that we have three parts—body, soul, and spirit. The spirit is the spark of life, and the soul is our individuality. It seems that animals only have two parts, body and spirit, but one can’t doubt that animals have individual personalities. Maybe the spirit and soul are one, like many people believe. In spiritual death, the spirit and soul would return to God and “reused” for other creatures. It might be silly, but I can see that it might make some sense. Spiritual death would then be the destruction of the personality and the spirit of life would return to God, but He doesn’t need it. Anyhow, spiritual death might be more complex than we think. I appreciate the large texts, because my eyes are not great, but I wonder why.

rjs330 said:

Then you should do more research into the criminals that have been caught. We also have MS13 and the cartels in America as well as Tren de Agua here. Some very violent people. Human trafficking and drug traffickers.

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We're not talking about the same thing. I'm talking about immigrants like dreamers who have built productive lives that contribute to the community. And I'm talking about asylum seekers who genuinely seek asylum And I'm talking about a president who says those types of immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country, and who also calls people who do not accept his version of reality far left lunatics.

rjs330 said:

Me too, thats why I pointed out that you don't.

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How exactly is my suggestion that you don't experience the dehumanizing oppression that immigrants do, proof that I don't think in dichotomies?

rjs330 said:

The radical left is just as bad as the radical right when it comes to scattering the sheep. Often they are the wolves dressed as sheep.

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I agree that radicalism in general would imply NOT gathering towards the center, but they look to me like sheep that have been scattered. That's why I said I'm avoiding hypocritical judgment.

rjs330 said:

Then we have an obligation to take him out by any means necessary. Because you know where Hitlers actions went correct? It started out with words and led to actions. In fact many on the left believe the actions have already started.

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The spiritual battle is fought in the hearts and minds of people who are spiritually minded. It may turn out that the worldly carnal winners are the spiritual losers. The bottom line is God sees what's happening, and He knows what He's doing.

RamiC said:

It is so clever what can be done with surgery, but ooh the initial results can look like it was just aggression.

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They gotta make you look worse to make you look better. It will be worth it in the end, I'm sure.

keras said:

A wrong and unbiblical statement, if I ever saw one!
Jesus Himself said He would Return and several Prophesies say how He will rule the world from Mt Zion; the Temple.

Who is it that says; BLESSED IS HE THAT COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD?
Matthew 23:39 & Luke 13:35 For I tell you, you will not see Me again until you say: Blessed is He that comes in the name of the Lord.”
Luke 18:8...when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on earth?

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Matthew 23:
36Truly I tell you, all these things will come upon this generation.
37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling! 38Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39For I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’”

If you're going to present verses, may I suggest having an AI conjugate the verbs for you before you make a claim about them.

Here are the verbs in Luke 13:35, along with their conjugations and explanations:

1. ἔρημος (erēmos) - "is left"
   • Verb Type: Present, Passive, Indicative, 3rd person singular
   • Explanation: This is a form of the verb εἰμί (eimi), which means "to be." In this context, it describes the state of the house (Jerusalem).
2. λέγω (legō) - "say"
   • Verb Type: Present, Active, Indicative, 1st person singular
   • Explanation: This verb means "to say" or "to speak." The form "I say" indicates that Jesus is speaking directly.
3. ὄψεσθε (opsisesthe) - "shall see"
   • Verb Type: Future, Middle, Indicative, 2nd person plural
   • Explanation: This is a form of the verb ὁράω (horaō), which means "to see." In this case, it is a future tense form, indicating that the audience will not see Jesus in the present but at a future time.
4. ἔλθῃ (elthē) - "comes"
   • Verb Type: Aorist, Active, Subjunctive, 3rd person singular
   • Explanation: This is a form of the verb ἔρχομαι (erchomai), which means "to come." The subjunctive mood indicates a condition or a possibility.
5. εἴπητε (eipēte) - "you say"
   • Verb Type: Aorist, Active, Subjunctive, 2nd person plural
   • Explanation: This is also from the verb λέγω (legō). The subjunctive mood indicates that the statement is a condition or a possibility.

The pronouns all point to the people He's speaking to, there's no indication whatsoever that He's speaking to or about a future generation. It's just another futurist workaround to what the scripture actually says.

The heavenly Jerusalem (our mother) had already come down from heaven and is called the "church of the Firstborn" Hebrews 9. It would be the new Jerusalem when the temple was destroyed and is the "substance" of the prophecies given in the old testament book of the shadows of things to come. Otherwise explain why it's the size of the whole earth of the first century(Roman Empire) and not the size of the whole earth of the 21st century?
20For all the promises of God are “Yes” in Christ. And so through Him, our “Amen” is spoken to the glory of God.

Colo Millz said:

So:

Follow your heart, and blame your upbringing?

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There is no need to blame anything. This is just an explanation of where everyone's personal morality comes from ... both from inside and from many external influences.

mark46 said:

This is a matter of semantics.

Illegal immigrants MUST be served by the hospital if they show up at the emergency room.

Let us say that they have no money and would qualify for Medicaid if they were a citizen.

Then the hospital submits this to the feds and is reimbursed by REPUBLICANS at a rate less than when DEMOCRATS were in charge,
=========
So, yes, they are now and continue to be under either the Democratic or Republican legislation.

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It is a bit more then semantics. It is taking one possible outcome and re-framing it as a primary motivation.

It is the equivalent of claiming that Republicans want to spend money bombing brown children because they are for increased defense spending. It is not the primary motivation and is a possible incidental outcome.

RandyPNW said:

All laws, when they are in effect by the living word of God, are moral laws. The question becomes, are they in effect now?

When such laws are given in a set, in conjunction with an entire set of laws contained in a single covenant, then these moral laws are required as long as that covenant remains in effect. If that covenant goes away, some of those moral laws may continue in a new covenant, which we know they do.

And, I might add, if we obey laws under a particular covenant, such as the Law of Moses, we are obligated to keep all of them. We can't just select the 10 Commandments as a token of our obedience to the Law.

The difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant is that the Old was required of Israel and consisted of their flawed record, but one recorded in faith. By contrast, the New Covenant is the record of Christ, which was flawless, and something he chose to give us so that we can participate with him in his own righteousness. By his spotless record we obtain with him Eternal Life.

So the moral law may be the same, at times, from Old to New Covenant. But what system we are living under makes the difference as to whether our record keeps us from Eternal Life or his flawless record enables us to receive Eternal Life.

When we obey the eternal moral law prohibitting us from murder, for example, we are obeying this as we trust in Christ to give us his life and Spirit, along with his requirement that we live through him alone, and not by our own works. We conform our works to his guidance so that what we do conforms to him the best we can. We show in this our faith that he will forgive our sins and continue to endow us with his righteousness since we've chosen to enter into covenant with him.

We either live under a system that depends upon us keeping all of those laws, moral and ritual, and preserves our flawed record. Or, we live under Christ who gives us the benefit of his own flawless record. One leads to failure, and the other leads to life.

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The 4th commandment has always been ritual not moral. It was set up as a day of rest to save the land and was observed in ritual form. The legalists will want you to believe that just because the church worships on Sunday instead of Saturday that we live in sin. If you believe that the 4th commandment is moral then that is the logical ending. If you consider that the 4th commandment is moral in both the old and the new covenant then the logical end is the same.

One doesn’t have to exclude the other. I think there is room for both a continued existence and some form of rebirth, or return to the earth.

His writings are great!

Lord have mercy!

Awful, but not surprising

Abraham1st said:

That is correct, and fhanson also has no basis to discuss with you, in your same declaration, as fhanson also does not agree to your Scriptural explanations.

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I await Biblical demonstration of the personal assertions of both of you. . .

Michie said:

He passed around 3am. Thanks to all who prayed.

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Eternal rest grant unto him, O Lord, and let perpetual light shine upon him. May he rest in peace. Amen.

Abraham1st said:

Christianity is not supposed to thrive/be busy by dispute, is that not partly why there are different areas for different discussions, but how can teaching of law, commandments, sabbath, belong in a general area, and not where people who seek that, go to, exactly as the attempt to curcumcise and keep the law were rejected. If these subjects are not put away, it shows a different judgement to Gods seen below again..

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Covenant theology could have been such an area. But was closed down. There could be a place to discuss the covenants, that would/could work well for this.

Abraham1st said:

Acts 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.


Acts 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

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The synagogue taught the covenant of Noah, to the God fearers in attendance.

Ac 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

1. This was from "old time" of Ezra, by decree of Cyrus/Artaxerxes

Ezra 7:21 And I, even I Artaxerxes the king, do make a decree to all the treasurers which are beyond the river, that whatsoever Ezra the priest, the scribe of the law of the God of heaven, shall require of you, it be done speedily,

2. God Fearing, of God's wrath on the realm of the king, and his sons

22 Unto an hundred talents of silver, and to an hundred measures of wheat, and to an hundred baths of wine, and to an hundred baths of oil, and salt without prescribing how much.
Whatsoever is commanded by the God of heaven, let it be diligently done for the house of the God of heaven: for why should there be wrath against the realm of the king and his sons? {Whatsoever … : Chaldee, Whatsoever is of the decree }
24 Also we certify you, that touching any of the priests and Levites, singers, porters, Nethinims, or ministers of this house of God, it shall not be lawful to impose toll, tribute, or custom, upon them.

3. Synagogues set up to be courts of judgement, and teach the law of God to all which knew it not

25 And thou, Ezra, after the wisdom of thy God, that is in thine hand, set magistrates and judges, which may judge all the people that are beyond the river, all such as know the laws of thy God; and teach ye them that know them not.

26 And whosoever will not do the law of thy God, and the law of the king, let judgment be executed speedily upon him, whether it be unto death, or to banishment, or to confiscation of goods, or to imprisonment. {to banishment: