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Salvation by grace through faith and our responsibility?

Looking at God's salvation He offers through faith by grace, there is a responsibility in our parents, faith preachers and in us to respond and persist, with God's help that eventually leads to holiness with complete free will, and certain sinlessness forever despite any test and one is no longer temptable. In the afterlife.

If someone does not respond to the Gospel preached it may not have been preached well. If someone loses their salvation as in Hebrews 6:6, again, the ministry may have been substandard, and that church should close down. I am sure it is not God's predestined plan.

We need to pray, seek God for ourselves, discern kind versus narcissistic ministry, choose life, guard our hearts, seek more than a taste of grace to overcome sin.
Our responsibility is to heed the Holy Spirit. Living in a manner that reflects Christ in our lives is part of it, but there is also at times a need for what might appear prideful or confrontational. Let's not forget the example of Ananias and Sapphira and other displays of the severity of God. Sometimes, in limited circumstances, there is a need for what might not reflect the world's ideas about who Jesus is. So we must always be mindful of what the Spirit is telling us, and act accordingly.
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The return of Christ in Sept of 2040

Many people would be wrong.
In your opinion.
The astronomical data trumps that.
Never mind astronomy, what about the historical facts?
Too many tricky variables with the dead kings and pinning them down.
Historians don't seem to think so.
Several online resources give Tiberius' reign from 14 -37 AD. William Barclay, Tom Wright and the IVP Bible commentary agree. John's ministry began in the 15th year of Tiberius' reign, Luke 3:1-2. Luke was a historian too - and he lived very close to, if not during that time.

You may look to the stars for your facts; some of us prefer something more accurate.
He might have been inaugurated in 14AD, but it was only a formalization for a reign that began a couple years earlier.
No, his reign began after the death of his father in 14BC.

Prince Charles shared several of the late Queen's duties and, towards the end, stood in for her a couple of times. He was not King until she died.
The Isaac Newton way, which is the Daniel 9 Way.
Who cares what Isaac Newton said; he knew as much as anyone else.

In post #85 you said that, Isaac Newton said that he saw no reason for it to be before 2060. A few sentences later you said, "Newton knew that it would be around our times, now."
Which is it - now, or in 35 years time?
Good Friday, April 7, 30 AD.
Right.
I'll ask him one day.
It fits with the Passover count that week based on the astronomical data, and with the Artaxerxes Decree to restore Jerusalem in 457 BC.
This is what I'm saying that I don't agree with. Bible maths - counting, looking for clues in the OT and trying to make them work/fit.

Which part of "no one knows the day or hour" do people not get?

69 weeks from 457 BC counted to 27 AD when Jesus said, early in Mark, that the "time" is fulfilled. He certainly must have been referring to the Daniel 9 "time", the 7, and the 62 weeks.
He didn't say "the time is fulfilled" he said "the time has come, the Kingdom of God is at hand."
Of course it was - Jesus, the King was on earth and would be teaching/living the Kingdom.
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Salvation by grace through faith and our responsibility?

Having identified the elect as being humble as are little children, Jesus said you will not enter the kingdom of heaven unless you change and are like little children; i.e., humble.

Indeed. . .all those of Adam are born condemned unbelievers,
as the result of Adam's sin imputed to them at birth (Ro 5:17), and which is the pattern (Ro 5:14)
for Christ's righteousness imputed to all those of Christ (Ro 5:18-19, 1:17, 3:21, 4:5, 13, 9:30, 10:6, Gal 3:16, Php 3:9).

"God is the Savior of all men". . .who preserves and prospers them in the natural order, and has put them in a state where they can be saved, rather than a fixed state, as is Satan and the fallen angels.

It's not about an infant hardening himself.
It's about Adam's sin being imputed to all those of Adam (Ro 5:17, 12-16, 18-19) as the pattern (Ro 5:14) for Christ's righteousness being imputed to all those of Christ (Ro 5:18-19, 1:17, 3:21, 4:5, 13, 9:30, 10:6, Gal 3:16, Php 3:9).

That imputation of Aam's sin condemns all mankind at birth, making them by nature objects of wrath (Eph 2:3), whose only remedy is faith in Jesus Christ (Jn 3:18, Eph 2:8-9).

God has shut up all men in sin so that all salvation is only by his mercy (Ro 11:32) through faith (Jn 3:18, Eph 2:8-9).
I have read through your quotes. It is not correct to judge that infants and children are humble. Some of them have strong self esteem. "I am a king."

Infants have not hardened themselves, and haven't had much chance as from your quotes, to "lust"... It is far fetched to say a deceased infant is condemned. As from your quotes, they physically die but I say spiritually, they live. They have the soft hearts and trust, and God welcomes them, as from my quotes from Jesus' Gospel. This salvation is applied also to adults that Paul mentioned in Timothy.

Rome was a most wicked place! To be a Roman man in that culture was to sin. It was very hard for Roman Christians, some Romans were lost by their adult culture, being better off dying when still small. But even the worst of the worst, Jesus asked God the Father not to condemn the men who were crucifying him, for they did not know what they were doing.

God controls the afterlife by His mighty arm and angels. Some of the unbelievers are saved. 1 Timothy 4:10. But more of them could be if they had faith in Jesus. And trusted like little children.

Childlike trust, is part of good faith.

1 Timothy 4:6-12. In Part, NLT
6If you explain these things to the brothers and sisters,c Timothy, you will be a worthy servant of Christ Jesus, one who is nourished by the message of faith and the good teaching you have followed. 7Do not waste time arguing over godless ideas and old wives’ tales. Instead, train yourself to be godly. 8“Physical training is good, but training for godliness is much better, promising benefits in this life and in the life to come.” 9This is a trustworthy saying, and everyone should accept it. 10This is why we work hard and continue to struggle,d for our hope is in the living God, who is the Savior of all people and particularly of all believers.

11Teach these things and insist that everyone learn them. 12Don’t let anyone think less of you because you are young.
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Exploring the Relationship Between Adam's Initial Immortality and the Age of the Earth

The Bible also speaks of God giving animals for mankind to have dominion over. And there is no reason to exclude consumption from that.
On the contrary again. Many reasons given to exclude consuming of animals.
And no reason to say they where allowed to eat animals, just your reasoning.

Genesis 1:29 states, “Then God said, ‘I give you every seed-bearing plant
on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it.
They will be yours for food.’”

After they sinned

17And unto Adam he said, because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of
thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying,
Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt
thou eat of it all the days of thy life
;

18thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat
the herb of the field; 19in the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread,
till thou return unto the ground
; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust
thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Before the flood did people eat meat?
Sure but was not condoned by God.

After the flood

Genesis 9:3 God states, “Everything that lives and moves about will be food
for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.”

This marked a significant shift in human diet after the flood.
This is the same time frame that life expectance went down sharply.

[Now] Noah and his family were now allowed to eat meat, but there
was one restriction: God commanded, “But you must not eat meat
that has its lifeblood still in it” (Genesis 9:4).

This meant that meat had to be properly prepared, with the blood
drained, a principle carried over into later biblical laws. Lev. 17:11

You can say the First Passover was God killing an animal to cover
them up with skins to cover their nakedness, a type of sin. Rev 13:8
-

Do you have any bible verses that backup your claim?

Having dominion over Gods creation is not about eating any animal.
I can ride a horse, use whale oil or a million other uses and they would
not be eating any animal. I could drink milk or eat honey etc...

This concept emphasizes that humans are granted authority over creation,
which should be understood as a call to stewardship rather than exploitation.
In essence, having dominion means to responsibly manage and care for the
earth and its creatures.

The Sciences can study Gods animal creations without having to eat them.
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Gal 2:16 and Rom 2:13 : Works of the Law Justifies or not?

There is no limit to what Jesus can do today if we submit ourselves to Him and His will.
Jesus can basically do nothing without you then? Is that your final answer?

Have you ever considered our disobedience serves His Perfect Judgment against it?
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If universalism is true then why did God send His Son to die for our sins?

What you say no one disagrees with is what proves what you state is an argument from silence.
You apparently lost the thread there. You contend gthat there's noneing that says that anyone can be saved after death. True. It is also true that there's also nothing in Scripture says that no one can't be saved after death. The Bible says nothing either way, and your claim that silence suports your position is simply nonsense.. Sorry, no worky.
Try to keep up.

Read John 6:35-40. What is the will of God?
Just what it says.

Here's something more to the point:
1 Timothy 2:3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6Who gave himself a ransom for ALL, to be testified in due time.

)All emphasis obviously mine) THis is where the Damnationist "Poor God, There's Just Nothing He Can Do" comes into play. "Yeah", they say, "that's God Will, but He's helpless to pull i off because His dimwitted creatures just thwart Him at every turn. Being omnipotent just isn't all it's cracked up to be, because the even the dumbest cluck He created can easily set His will at nought. That summarizes the Damnationist position, doesn't it?
And yet you fearmonger with the many that you claim will be tortured for eternity. You can’t have it both ways.
Fearmonger? Hmmmm.. remind me again which of us it is who believes that most of the people God has ever created will be roasted screaming over a slow fore for all eternity? Hint: It ain't me. I think that's grotesquely false. I believe that the Will of God will be done, and of. Ifm as Scripture tells us (see above) is for "all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." You say His will can't be done. I say God's will can't be stopped. You're the fearmonger here. I believe that God will save everyone: A) because He wants them to be, and B) because nothing can can hinder His will.

BTW, I don't know what the thing about "having it both ways" means. I see the Damnationist view as arrant rubbish. There;s nothing about it I want to "have". You paint God as a merciless, pitiless, malevolent despot Who will grant those of His creatures with eternal life just so they can be tortured forever. Simply ghastly, and at odds with Scripture. I believe that God either saves a, or causes them never to have been.
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No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

-

People are not corpses, they are living and breathing people who can think, reason and examine evidence and either believe the evidence in favor of something or not believe the evidence.

In the case of The Bible, The Bible presents (in The Gospel of John) the evidence that Jesus is who He says He is and that God's free gift of Eternal Life is receive through belief in Jesus.

This evidence is available to all, to be examined and to be convinced. Belief in Jesus gives eternal life or to not be convinced that Jesus is who He says He is and that receiving eternal life is not by belief in Jesus.
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Hot Button Issue: Can You Be Pro-Choice and Be a Christian?

Your perception of reality is very flawed. You don't understand the arguments I am making, even after I clarify them to you twice.
I understand all too well. You don’t like to be told you’re wrong, even when you’re wrong. I’ve been around here a good long time and have seen a good number of posts that express fantastical claims, but never have I seen anyone be so wrong about so much and still act like they are the person who could do, or know, no wrong and try to pass off their own wrongness onto someone else.

I’ll be praying for that girl so that when you approach her with all your misinformation, as well-intentioned as it might be, that she is able to see beyond the errors to your heart, which I really hope is in the right place.
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Commandments of man or the commandments of God

There’s no such thing.




Link me to it then.



It apparently is, since the paper you cited was from a university known as a bastion of liberalism within the RCC, due to its associations with the Jesuits.

Regarding the question of an imprimatur for the work, upon some research, I am not so sure if the book ever received an imprimatur.

So, for some background. Samuele Bacchiocchi, again, was a Seventh Day Adventist who attended Pontifical Gregorian University, being the first non-Catholic to ever do so. As his dissertation for graduation, he wrote a wrote on the change of Sabbath to Sunday. This dissertation was later revised into a book called From Sabbath to Sunday, and it is alleged it received an imprimatur from the Catholic Church, or at least the university he graduated from. How much an imprimatur is worth can be exaggerated (it inherently carries with it no more than the authority of the specific person or persons who grants it), but the question is: Did it receive one?

Now, I for quite a while assumed that this was given an imprimatur, but not a nihil obstat, on the grounds that... well, from what I remember when I looked at it (I got a copy temporarily quite a while ago because I was trying to look into something from it), the book said there was an imprimatur at the start, but no mention of a nihil obstat. But it seems this might have been inaccurate, or at least misleading. So about two decades ago there arose a controversy about whether some of Bacchiocchi's claims about himself and his work were valid, such as whether he actually graduated from the university or received a gold medal from the pope, which got compounded by someone from the university claiming some of his claims were false. But then it turns out some of that person's claims weren't accurate. Some information about this can be found in this series of posts here. On the specific question of the imprimatur, see particularly this one and this one; also see the comments on this post (alluded to in the prior links). This last link should automatically bring you to the more relevant part, but the important things begin on comment #78 and go to #95). To be fair, these are not from the most friendly of witnesses towards Bacchiocchi, though their points do seem valid to me (and they do note how a bunch of the accusations towards Bacchiocchi were false).

I'll try to summarize things. As noted, Bacchiocchi got cleared of a lot of the accusations, but most of them don't concern us, and the one that does is where things get more murky, and it's about the imprimatur. Based on the information from those posts, and reading Bacchiocchi's defenses (linked to from the above post), it looks to me like his book From Sabbath to Sunday never got any imprimatur. What got an imprimatur--though it seems it might have been an imprimi potest from the university rather than an more formal imprimatur--was an abridged version of his dissertation. This imprimatur (or imprimi potest, whichever it was) of a major portion of the dissertation was a requirement for graduation. This abridged version of the dissertation was called "Anti-Judaism and the Origin of Sunday". Apparently to get the imprimi potest, he had to get the university to do it, because his local bishop declined to give his work an imprimatur (it is not clear to me whether this refusal was for the abridged or unabridged version of his dissertation).

At any rate, the university give imprimi potest to "Anti-Judaism and the Origin of Sunday". Bacchiocchi then wrote "From Sabbath to Sunday", based on his dissertation, and published that. The problem is, whatever weight the original imprimi potest for "Anti-Judaism and the Origin of Sunday" could have had did not apply to this one, it being a different work. Despite this, it was printed with the imprimi potest of the original work at the start of the book, albeit it now said "imprimatur". I do not think this was done deliberately dishonestly by Bacchiocchi--these distinctions would no doubt be confusing to a non-Catholic, and by his account it seems his professor led him to think a new imprimatur wasn't necessary for his work--but at the end of the day, it means an imprimi potest for one work is misleadingly being applied as an imprimatur to a separate, albeit related, work.

I do not have copies of them available to me right now (the closest library that has From Sabbath to Sunday is an hour away, and the closest that has Anti-Judaism and the Origin of Sunday is even farther), so I cannot try to gauge how much was different between these works, and thus if perhaps "Anti-Judaism and the Origin of Sunday" was much more tempered in its statements, which could have gotten it the permission. But at any rate, an imprimi potest on one work does not automatically transfer to another one.

For the record, Bacchiocchi appears to not claim that the imprimatur (if it was that rather than an imprimi potest) was an actual sanction of the church, at least if the e-mail quoted from here is legitimate (I obviously have no way to verify the validity of a private e-mail quote):

Regarding the imprimatur, he [Ghirlanda] explains that the approval that I received from granted by the Gregorian University, not by the Catholic church at large.

So based on the information I can gather, it appears that it is highly misleading to claim that Bacchiocchi's "From Sabbath to Sunday" was ever granted any kind of imprimatur by the Catholic Church. The imprimi potest or imprimatur (whichever it was) was granted by the university. Furthermore, this did not apply to "From Sabbath to Sunday", but rather an earlier, though similar, work called "Anti-Judaism and the Origin of Sunday".

As for whether Bacchiocchi's arguments in From Sabbath to Sunday are good or not, I can't say, having again no present access to the work. I read a little of it a while ago--someone cited it for something so I got a copy from a library loan in order to look at that specific thing--but not enough to try to give anything close to a full appraisal of it. But my interest is not in whether the work is well argued or persuasive, but simply whether it had an imprimatur--which, for the reasons noted above, it does not appear it did.
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Hot Button Issue: Can You Be Pro-Choice and Be a Christian?

I don't think all of the fuller connotations possibly inherent in your apparent view of 'sex ed' are being cited here. From one angle, I agree generally agree with you: people ideally should not have sex until they're ready to be parents.

Yet, coming from another angle, there's an old traditional perspective that takes this general notion and applies it with vigorous inflation. I don't think that perspective is sensible, useful or even impermissible.

This is a very confusing last word. I don't understand what you are saying.

Sure. But let's ALSO, by all means, bring the men responsible for those pregnancies to the judgement bar since they are a part of the problem. In fact, in many cases, they are the prior cause of the problem.

If we are going to hold the men responsible for walking out on the girl, we are going to have to provide some consequences for the woman as well.

First principles of morality? Which ethical framework out of a dozen are you referring to in alluding to these "first principles"?

The Bible, mostly.

Ok. And when she says to you either that, "I don't know," or "I don't care at this point in my life," how will you respond to either of these answers?

Then I give her space and let her think about it. Then, at some other point, I will bring it up again.
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Is God a do as I say not as I do God?

How is it a straw man argument to say that Jesus tells us to love and forgive our enemies, but according to western tradition God punishes his enemies for eternity. How is that not do as I say not as I do? Can you answer that please.
Okay. . .only God knows who the real enemies are.

Whom you think is an enemy may actually be someone who will later on come to saving faith and be your brother in Christ.
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Gal 2:16 and Rom 2:13 : Works of the Law Justifies or not?

Sin does not prevent us from choosing to accept Christ.
The evil in no one chooses Christ. It resists God all the days of our lives. If we're honest about it.
The Works of the Law benefited Israel in keeping them close to God and temporarily accepted of God, but they were also a reminder that Israel could not obtain by those flawed works Eternal Life.
The law didn't do Israel any favors. They were eventually defeated and scattered. And rightfully so.
Again, our having a righteousness with a flawed record never impeded the free exercise of our free will
No amount of freewill ever made anyone perfectly obedient. More along the lines of perfectly disobedient and deceitful, if anything. The notions that our supposed freewill gained us anything is a simple delusional fib.

But if we are to benefit from Christ's Justification we must exercise a faith that not only believes in it but actively chooses to live by it
I see. So your view is that without our freewill in action, everything about God, His Will, Work and Ways are meaningless and worthless?

That again is a very very unlikely tale.
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Is God a do as I say not as I do God?

John 3:18 says condemned not annihilated in the English but the Greek word is Krino which means to judge not condemned, and yes they are judged as not following Jesus, it says nothing about punishment.
Then you don't understand what is meant by God judging someone.
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Hot Button Issue: Can You Be Pro-Choice and Be a Christian?

You know, when you are confronted with information you don’t know (which appears to be quite a bit), your first act is to lash out instead of being humble enough to admit that you could be wrong and make the effort to study the issue out and, heaven forbid, actually try to work the new information you’ve received into your belief system.

I really feel bad for that young woman you say you’re talking to.

Just about everything you’ve said has been hostile, from accusing me of being an atheist because I’m a nurse to Jesus not being a good example like you because He has no passion to accusing me of accusing Jesus of making people mutilate themselves. You truly have no idea how you come across if you think there is nothing wrong with any of those things you said.

Your perception of reality is very flawed. You don't understand the arguments I am making, even after I clarify them to you twice.
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Dreams so real you can't tell they're dreams?

I had 2-3 maybe more recently, I have been ill, lunginflamation, was laid in hospital.

Well, dreamt of deceased and nondeceased, nothing dramatic, but was very dissapointed on awakening.

But being a believer I am automatically insane, so why worry.

"Those people of whom you have doubts," said God to Moses, "are believers, the children of believers."
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Gal 2:16 and Rom 2:13 : Works of the Law Justifies or not?

It was before the fall and God promises through Him, He can make us this way again Mat 1:21 John 14:15-18
He can or did?

IF it's the case of kicking the can down the road to a post death position, I could agree.

Unless you're making the case that you've been made perfectly legally obedient now?
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