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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Are the Jews Israel, or is the church Israel? Or does it depend on the context of the passage?

Romans 9:11-13 established that Jacob was the elect. Neither Esau nor him did anything right or wrong at birth but yet God chose Jacob, out of pure grace.

Thus only descendants of Jacob are the elect.

So unless you can claim Jacob to be your father, you are not the elect.
Elect to what?
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If sins were to be ranked by how bad it is, what would be the top 10 sins?

Good question! Many don't differentiate between sins, but the Catholic Church does. I say those that do the most harm such as murder, rape, torture etc. Also, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit because it's not forgivable.

Peace

That said a lot of people don’t understand what this sin is, and since I’ve been a member of CF I’ve seen about 20 frightened teenagers and young adults in the early 20s, most from denominations that lack the high quality catechesis of the Roman Catholic Church and certain other denominations, appear on the forums terrified they have blasphemed the Holy Spirit (none of them had). Its very important we explain to the youth what is meant by this sin because the existential terror felt by those kids was both real and dangerous in that they were close to despair, a passion as potentially soteriologically harmful as pride.
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If sins were to be ranked by how bad it is, what would be the top 10 sins?

If my measure is how much harm the sin does to the other person, then there are probably forms of torture, maiming, etc., that are worse than murder.

(But I'm going to get nightmares if I meditate on that too long, so I think I'll stop now.)

In the Orthodox Church we read about that every Sunday, indeed in some parishes and jurisdictions, for example in all Coptic Orthodox churches, the Synaxarion with its history of martyrdoms is read aloud - however for all the brutality, goodness always wins. The Romans inadvertently proved that no matter how horribly you harm someone physically, or how brutally you kill them, you cannot defeat one who is with Christ and filled with the Holy Spirit, indeed even slapping someone for believing in Christ grants them the crown of a confessor.
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Witchcraft and Psychics

I also find humans super confusing. I don't want to give examples because I don't want to hurt anyone or cause conflict, but I notice people being very hypocritical as a whole. I understand that it's not intentional but it often comes from people who scream the loudest "look at me" and if I can't trust these "experts" than how can I trust someone as unversed as myself, you know? I don't necessarily mean I experienced that here as far as someone talking directly to me but if I were to give an example of something I've seen and it unknowingly applied to someone here I wouldn't want to be the one trying to come across as high and mighty. I am jacked up like a soup sandwich and I shouldn't be calling anyone out. My only point is it's hard to decipher purity from agenda, so I don't always consume the best spiritual food, not for a lack of effort, but from a lack of proficiency. Probably the main reason I'm both desperately seeking a community right now, and kept my distance in the past. I do appreciate the list of resources left in this thread by everyone, sincerely thank you for those.
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Teens Who Savagely Attacked Well-Known DOGE Staffer Avoid Jail Time

Well in that case, the punishment would have been different, now wouldn't it have? But in this case, there was no permanent damage. It's quite odd why you'd bring up a different case with totally different results as if that would have relevance.
You do recognize the facts that while something like assault and speeding all have varying degrees of punishment correct? Punching someone in the face one time is not as serious an offense as several people beating on someone over and over again. Even though the peraon disnt die or receive life threatening injuries hos injuries were far worse than a bloody nose or a black eye. The amount of injury and amount of beating makes a difference. In this case he received a good beating with numerous injuries. This deserves a more serious punishment than just giving someone a black eye.

Just like speeding. Going 35 in a 25 is not as serious as going 75 in a 25. You get a more serious punishment in fines for that.

So in this case the punishment does not fit the crime.
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What genre is Job?

Don't you believe that the human writers of the bible were inspired by God to write His truth? You might just as well ask, "Who was present in the beginning when God created the heavens and the earth?" There is much that is described in the bible where human writers were not present. The temptation of Jesus in the wilderness, and the time recorded in John 17 where we read of Him in prayer to the Father, for example.
Well...who was present when God created the universe? Who was present to document Jesus being tempted in the wilderness? My opinion is that there were no witnesses. But stories heard through word of mouth.
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Morality without Absolute Morality

I don't believe in "common sense." Only non-sense is common.

And I'm glad to know that you're competent in Geology. That's a plus in my book.
I also reject common sense as a concept, but it served its purpose here.

Also, there is nothing in my post that indicated that I am competent in Geology, only that I can attest to the route to my current standing on the incompetent - competent spectrum.
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SHOW ME YOUR WORKS BY YOUR FAITH. ( THOSE WHO TEACH LAW, WHCH IS NOT OF FAITH.)

Paul said something different

Romans 3: 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

Faith is obedience to God, not rebelling, not sure how this got so upside down and twisted

Gen 26:5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”

Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise; 10 for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Jesus said John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Jesus came to free us of sin, not the law. The law just shows us our sins and shows our need for a Savior. Getting rid of the law doesn't get rid of sin, it just covers ones sin, where no one receives mercy and no more sacrifice remains Heb10:26-30

Pro 28:13 He who covers his sins will not prosper,
But whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy.

Its really common sense, does God want us to worship other gods. If you answer is yes, than you have not read your Bible. If the answer is no, this would apply to the other 9 commandments- the Testimony of God Exo 31:18 James 2:11. Breaking the least of these commandments one will be in fear of sin and judgement Mat5:19-30

If everyone was keeping the Ten Commandments the way Jesus explained, there would be no more sin, why its the perfect law of the Lord converting the soul Psa19:7 and the law of liberty which sets us free of the bondage of sin James 2:11-12
And Rom 6:14. says. :

# 1 FOR //. GAR is a CONJUNCATION

# 2 SIN //. HAMARTIA. , in the NOMINATIVE CASE , in. the SINGULAR.

# 3 SHALL //. KYNEVO. in. the FUTURE TENSE , and in. the INDICATIVE MOOD. , means you. better believe the word SHALL

in. the SINGULAR

# 4 NOT // OU. is a DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE , POINTING TO # 5,

# 5. HAVE DOMINION. OVER // KYNON is a PERSONAL POSSESSEIVE PRONOUN , in. the GENITIVE CASE , in. the PLURAL

# 6 YOU // HYNON. , is a PERSONAL POSSESSEIVE PRONOUN. , in. the GENITIVE CASE , in. the PLURAL.

# 7. FOR // GAR , is a CONJUNCATION

# 8 YE ARE // ESTE , in. the PRESENT TENSE ,in the INDICATIVE MOOD , in. the PLURAL

# 9. NOT // OU. is a DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE , meaning neverrrr

#. 10. UNDER // HYPO. , is a ACCUSATIVE CASE , in. the SINGULAR

# 11 THE. LAW // NOMOS. , in. the ACCUSATIVE CASE , in. the SINGULAR

# 12 BUT. // ALLA , is a CONJUNCATION

# 13. UNDER // HYPO. is a PREPOSITION

#. GRACE // CHARIS. , in. the ACCUSATIVE CASE , in. the SINGULAR.

Remember Rom 10:9. and Eph 2:8

dan p
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The law, the commandments, and Christians.

Not I but Christ. For we are or we are dead but alive, yet not us but Christ Lives in us, and the Life we now live in the flesh, we live by the faith of the Son of God who gave Himself for us.

He supplies the Spirit and works power in us through the hearing of this Faith of Christ. Even as Abraham believed by the God and it added up unto righteousness. Even so we who are out of the hearing of this faith of Christ are sons of God, living by the faith of Christ.

Because we who have been baptized into Christ, have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, bond nor freeman, male nor female, Scott or Liturgist. We are all one in Christ having been baptized into Christ, The circumcision made without hands, in the putting off the body of sin, the flesh. All we are and our affections and lusts. Having cleansed our Conscience, who we are from dead works, acts that cause death; sin, so we can serve the Living God. Risen with Him through the Faith and operation of God. Yet not us, but Christ Jesus and the life we now live in the flesh we live by the hearing, the listening to the faith of Christ. Walking by this, His Spirit and not by the flesh, who we were. That the righteousness of the Law be fulfilled in us, being made free from sin, and free we are indeed, we became the servants of righteousness.

Knowing that a man is not justified out of the works of the law, IF NOT out of the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed INTO Jesus Christ, that we might be justified through the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. For the Just shall live out of this faith. This faith that establishes the Law. For the word is in our heart and mouth, that is the faith in which we preach. And that believes unto righteousness.

In quoting that verse of St. Paul, it becomes evident you misunderstood what I meant in objecting to your remark - my point was the distinct person of Christ, not a rejection of the need to allow the old man to be crucified with Christ so the new man might live unto Him. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
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Republican Congressman Under Protection Order in Florida

No, what you answered did not address the actual question: do you think that only congressmen should be removed for impropriety of any kind, financial, legal or immoral but not presidents?
Im all for removing anyone from office who has done those things while in office. We already have methods of doing that. So, I dont know what you are about on this. You are asking questions regarding things we already have methods for and Congress FAILS to act quite often.
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The law, the commandments, and Christians.

If there is an I, it is "I am a new creation in Christ", not a justification for pride. I think you're reading too much into a concession to my viewpoint, it's just a way of saying that there isn't room for pride.

Ah, this is a valid objection, and to be clear, the I in Christ I was speaking of is from His perspective, not from ours, except insofar as what you said, that we are recreated in Christ, and that He does call us by name. Rather, in saying there is an I in Christ, I was seeking to point to the unity and individuality of His personhood within the Holy and Undivided Trinity, for like His unoriginate Father who begat Him before all ages, and the Holy Spirit, our comforter and Paraclete, who is everywhere present and fills all things, who eternally proceeds from the Father, Our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ, by whom all things were made, who is our Advocate and who after the resurrection will also stand in judgement over all as Pantocrator (thus, Him being our advocate is rather reassuring) is a distinct person, with a distinct hypostasis in which He unites our created human nature with the uncreated divine nature, the essence of the unoriginate Father that is shared with His uncreated, coequal and coeternal Son and Holy Spirit, uniting the three divine persons as One God, an eternal union of perfect love that is the template for our human families and relations, or as we would say in my church, we are called to make our relationships with our family, with the members of our church, and with mankind as a whole an icon of the Trinity, recreating the love between the Father, Son and Holy Ghost in the love between ourselves and our spouse, all our children, all our brethren and all our neighbors. Such love requires absolute humility and the complete rejection of pride, because it requires us to be willing, as Christ was for us, to love our neighbor as ourselves, to the point of being willing to die for him.

Very few people, if any at all, are able to get to such a state of holiness in this life, but by striving to get there as if running a race, as St. Paul put it, we can give much love to many, and with our God who is infinitely merciful and infinitely loving, that counts for a lot. But the race is something we must be willing to try to compete in: St. Silouan the Athonite, an Orthodox monastic, warned that there are two thoughts from which every Christian must flee, the first one being ”I am saintly”, and the second one being “My sins are so great I cannot be saved.” In the first case, we fall into a spiritual delusion (which Slavic Christians call Prelest, which more than being a word, refers to an entire concept within Orthodox theology whereby we can be deceived; the word prelest is not intended to be used in a judgemental or forensic manner, but rather someone in a state of prelest is to be prayed for, because they are being successfully deceived, which is dangerous to them and to this around them).

Among the Desert Fathers and Mothers, who were the early ascetic Christian hermits and proto-monastics who lived a life of prayer in places such as Scetis and the Thebaid following the example of St. Anthony the Great, there were examples of men being deceived by demons, exploiting their pride, into believing they had already attained the fullness of divine glory and were to be born aloft to Heaven by waiting angels as was Elijah. At least one fell to his death, and another was restrained by one of his monastic brethren before going over the edge.

Despair is equally dangerous, because if we believe we have no hope of salvation, we will stop running what St. Paul describes as the race, and defeated, we will lapse into nihilistic despair and likely wind up embracing a heresy or a false religion. My considered opinion is that a great many former Christians who now practice occult religions such as Wicca or other even more dangerous and seductive religions such as Buddhism and certain forms of Hinduism, and various materialist religions such as Marxist-Leninism or Hedonist Objectivism, do so on the basis of having felt hopelessness at the prospect of their salvation, which is particularly a risk in extremely legalistic churches, but is also a risk even in Reformed churches, where the idea that one could be a reprobate without realizing it exists, or in churches whose soteriological model does not promote continued thanksgiving and encourage seeking the aid of God the Holy Spirit in resisting temptation and struggling against sin, because here, the paradigm loops over on itself and we go from despairing of our salvation to believing we have become saintly, and thus need to repent no longer, and thus fall into the trap of pride once more.

Thus, in summary, allow me to quote St. Paul in his Epistle to the Colossians:

“If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.”
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Persons in creation pre-existing conception?

God could have done that. But nowhere does the Bible say He did . . . that I know of.
However, God did know us before He made each of us. And before the creation of the universe, He already knew who will be conformed to the image of Jesus >
"For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren." (Romans 8:29)
I think that when someone is born in sin, a demon can be assigned to the sinner and the devil can affect the person's personality.
Nor does the Bible say that demons are assigned to sinners. . .

But the Bible does say that we are by nature, objects of wrath (Eph 2:3), born with the sin of Adam charged/imputed to us (Ro 5:17, 18-19).
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Another look at the moon landing.

Like I said, 'nor do I want to.'
Exactly.
You don't know - so stop writing as though you do.
Surely you mean the gifts Satan gave them.
Everything that exists - everything, was made by God.
God gives; Satan takes away.
Gd gives life; Satan destroys.

You need to be really careful about saying that things from God are actually from Satan.
And still is.
Even if that is true - it doesn't mean everyone else is.
I don't believe they do, I know they do.
You don't know they do because you don't know them - you have just admitted that.

So, are you lying or is your memory that bad?
The moon landings are just one brilliant fairy tale.
Which you once believed - and you asked God for help in sticking to your new belief.
You even said "it will be hard, but with his help, I'll get there".
You haven't got anywhere - you've failed to ask God for help and have reverted to saying that his followers, and children, are liars.
Surly you mean staged & no they didn't - deal with that.
No I don't; they happened.
I don't need to "deal" with anything - I'm not the one in massive denial.
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Witchcraft and Psychics

In Luke, Matthew, and Mark it says blasphemy is unforgivable. I can't count the number of times in my life I dropped GD or JC as a curse, listened to blasphemy in music and really vibed with it, played video games that perverted biblical stories, even when I first approached a relationship with God it was distorted and twisted by my own righteousness. Then I realize I have moments maybe even darker in my past and it's just terrifying to think my sins may not be redeemable. Again I'm not educated and when I read something that says blasphemy against the holy spirit is unforgivable I just take it at face value. I don't understand the gravity of my decisions. As a child I even remember worshipping old Gods, fantasizing about the ancient Greeks and idolizing there Gods. I'm trying to be a better person than I was. I know salvation has nothing to do with my actions, but I still want to be better. I occasionally get quick glimpses of what God's love means and feels like, but I suffer a troubled past and I don't think I deserve anything good in life, so when you bring up a topic like redemption which none of us deserve and is only given by the love and grace of God I find it extremely difficult to think that includes me, especially after the horrible things I have done.
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Morality without Absolute Morality

I can tell you, in boring and extensive detail the formative sources, in terms of people, education, teachers, qualifications, experiences, textbooks, research papers, discussion, epiphanies and more as to the formative sources for my understanding of geology.
6/10: could use more irrelevant modifiers
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Mississippi School Homecoming Celebrations Turn Deadly as 8 People are Killed 20 Injured in Separate Shootings

I really thought providing you with a dozen examples in which over 100 people were shot by guns that were purchased from private sellers would be enough.

In 2018, a Chicago police officer was shot and killed in broad daylight by a person with four felony convictions. During the investigation, authorities found that shell casings from the same gun were linked to another Chicago shooting in 2017, just two months after its last known purchase in Wisconsin. They later found the gun and multiple others recovered in Chicago linked back to one Wisconsin man who would buy guns and then privately sell them through Armslist, a major gun classifieds website. Because these transactions occurred in Wisconsin—a state that does not require background checks on all gun sales—no background checks were required on the private sales, a legal deficit that helped this gun trafficking scheme succeed and led to the murder of a police officer.

Research shows that states without background check laws are prime grounds for criminals and traffickers looking to acquire guns, while state laws requiring background checks for all handgun sales are associated with 29 percent lower rates of gun trafficking across state lines.


Of the 390,154 traced guns that crossed state lines, 74 percent originated in states without background check laws. This factor is even more pronounced for likely trafficked guns: 78 percent of the 122,089 traced guns recovered across state lines within three years came from states without background check laws. Nearly 60 percent of these guns ended up in a state with a background check law.

The videos below show just how easy it is for gun traffickers and people prohibited from owning a gun to acquire them in states without universal background checks.

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Anyone with common sense can see that this is a problem.

You brought up examples over many many years, going clear back to Columbine. The number of gun murders going back to Columbine is large. The number of guns used that were purchased from legitimate private sales is miniscule in comparison. You have no stats to prove otherwise. Certainly its not zero. But in comparison making private gun sales have background checks won't make much of a difference. Its not the problem you made it out to be. What is occurring in cities is a problem. The number of deaths in Chicago every week is a problem. Who's doing most of the killing per capita is a problem. Legit private sales is not a problem.

Like I said, I personally dont care. But dont claim something is a problem when its not.
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