Virginia HB961 - Actual gun confiscation unless you register it with the state

[Speedwell]

Possible scenario?

There's a mass shooting and the shooter escapes with the gun. The state then goes to every registered gun owner and interrogates them and confiscates their guns until law enforcement verifies a strong alibi as to where they were when the shooting took place and checks the ballistics on their gun.

Highly unlikely. Large numbers of gun owners could likely be ruled out a priori before the door-to-door began and then the concentration would be on owners who could or would not produce the gun that was registered to them.

But the shooter got his gun out of state or bought it from a private owner where no background needed to be done.

Under a well-crafted registration program that would no longer be possible.

 

[dogs4thewin]

As most guns used in crimes by felons are stolen from people's homes, and as most accidental discharges resulting in the injury or death of a child are both from firearms that are unsecured, I think it's reasonable to at least to have you agree to safely store your firearm. I really didn't have much of an opinion on this until I had children. That said, if my 15 year old is home alone and someone tries to break in, I think they need a way of protecting themselves too.

that is why I have a problem with being required to secure the gun in a safe or something because what good is it if needed in a hurry?

 

[KCfromNC]

I have also noted where several cities and sheriffs have said they refuse to comply with this.

And here I thought sanctuary cities were a bad thing.

 

[dogs4thewin]

And here I thought sanctuary cities were a bad thing.

Depends on what it is a sanctuary city for.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Highly unlikely. Large numbers of gun owners could likely be ruled out a priori before the door-to-door began and then the concentration would be on owners who could or would not produce the gun that was registered to them.

Under a well-crafted registration program that would no longer be possible.

Pretty much anything is possible if wanted badly enough.

 

[Speedwell]

As most guns used in crimes by felons are stolen from people's homes, and as most accidental discharges resulting in the injury or death of a child are both from firearms that are unsecured, I think it's reasonable to at least to have you agree to safely store your firearm. I really didn't have much of an opinion on this until I had children. That said, if my 15 year old is home alone and someone tries to break in, I think they need a way of protecting themselves too.

Quite right. And if your gun is stolen or otherwise goes astray and subsequently used in a crime and you didn't report it, then as the last known registered owner you would be on the hook for abetting. That would motivate owners to keep their guns safe and secure and to not sell them without a proper title transfer.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Quite right. And if your gun is stolen or otherwise goes astray and subsequently used in a crime and you didn't report it, then as the last known registered owner you would be on the hook for abetting. That would motivate owners to keep their guns safe and secure and to not sell them without a proper title transfer.

Remember it is on the STATE to prove guilt, so even if they arrested you does not mean a thing unless they can prove it.

 

[Dave-W]

Please read this: United States Declaration of Independence, Full Text & Fun Facts | Constitution Facts

I am aware of the language used by Jefferson. "Endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights ...."

It was hyperbole. Intentionally overstating his case.

 

[KCfromNC]

Depends on what it is a sanctuary city for.

What or who, I'd guess.

 

[Speedwell]

Remember it is on the STATE to prove guilt, so even if they arrested you does not mean a thing unless they can prove it.

Prove that the criminal his an improperly registered firearm in his possession? Not hard. Prove that you, the last-known registered owner haven't got the gun any more and didn't report it as stolen or sold? Not hard, either.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Prove that the criminal his an improperly registered firearm in his possession? Not hard. Prove that you, the last-known registered owner haven't got the gun any more and didn't report it as stolen or sold? Not hard, either.

no prove that YOU committed the shooting.

 

[dogs4thewin]

What or who, I'd guess.

What is wrong with not allowing illegals to stay?

 

[dogs4thewin]

Prove that the criminal his an improperly registered firearm in his possession? Not hard. Prove that you, the last-known registered owner haven't got the gun any more and didn't report it as stolen or sold? Not hard, either.

Also what if you said you sold it and then the new person did not register it?

 

[Speedwell]

no prove that YOU committed the shooting.

That scenario was not contemplated in my example. The cops aren't going to say "We arrested a guy with your gun in his hand standing over a dead body and therefore you did the shooting." Although if your gun was found and linked to the murder but there was no known perp you might be in for some unpleasantness.

 

[Speedwell]

Also what if you said you sold it and then the new person did not register it?

Then he would be in trouble, because the paperwork you have to file would show that you sold it to him. As a practical matter, though, title transfer and re-registration would undoubtedly be the same administrative action.

 

[dogs4thewin]

That scenario was not contemplated in my example. The cops aren't going to say "We arrested a guy with your gun in his hand standing over a dead body and therefore you did the shooting." Although if your gun was found and linked to the murder but there was no known perp you might be in for some unpleasantness.

and in the latter case the state would have to prove YOU did the shooting else there would be no conviction to stand. Which would also mean that the person who DID the shooting would still be free ( unless charged with another crime.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Then he would be in trouble, because the paperwork you have to file would show that you sold it to him. As a practical matter, though, title transfer and re-registration would undoubtedly be the same administrative action.

sounds to me this would take a lot of manpower and red tape. Particularly if done on the national level.

 

[Speedwell]

and in the latter case the state would have to prove YOU did the shooting else there would be no conviction to stand. Which would also mean that the person who DID the shooting would still be free ( unless charged with another crime.

Of course. But the cops would still want to know why you don't have the gun any more. Was it stolen or lost and you didn't report it? That would be a crime in itself. Did you sell it to someone illegally? That would be an even worse crime if they could prove it and we haven't even got to the murder yet.

 

[98cwitr]

I am aware of the language used by Jefferson. "Endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights ...."

It was hyperbole. Intentionally overstating his case.

So are you saying that what Jefferson said was untrue and incorrect?

 

[Paulos23]

Are you familiar with the term "prefatory clause?" Heller v. DC ruling?

The operative part of the 2nd amendment is "The right of the people"

We are the people:

Amendment II. BEARING ARMS

DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA v. HELLER

We, ALL PEOPLE, have an inalienable right to bear arms, because we right of self-defense that is self-evident.

I am familiar with it, and I see it as a way to change the meaning of the 2nd amendment and a way to skirt around any reasonable government regulation.

 

[Dave-W]

So are you saying that what Jefferson said was untrue and incorrect?

More like exaggerated for emphasis.