Virginia HB961 - Actual gun confiscation unless you register it with the state

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The argument that guns should be registered because cars are registered is faulty in that there are no major politicians or political organizations calling for bans and confiscations on cars.
I think guns should be regulated, And if anyone , that is caught with an un-registered gun. They should get all their guns taken away, until they pass mental evaluation. And they should have to get mental evaluation on ever 2 months. And they should pay for it.
 
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I think guns should be regulated, And if anyone , that is caught with an un-registered gun. They should get all their guns taken away, until they pass mental evaluation. And they should have to get mental evaluation on ever 2 months. And they should pay for it.

That sort of reasoning is in lockstep with the narrative that guns aren't already heavily regulated. If you believe that they aren't, let's take a look at just the state laws of California regarding firearms. These don't even include the Federal regulations: California Gun Laws | GunsToCarry Guide
 
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Blue text in a post indicates an item known as a "link" which you have to left-click on with your mouse, trackball, touchpad, or phone screen, depending on your preferred device. On the "link" in post #362, you'll find an "embedded video" (don't worry too much about the jargon), which will be quite enlightening to those who wish to see.

Remember, first click the link, then click the play button on the video (it's the one that looks like a triangle).

I already saw that video, and not just when you posted it, but long before that when the issue was brought up prior. It doesn't prove anything. All they did was have a black guy and a white guy carry an AR15 down a sidewalk and made a video of when an officer responded one way to the white guy and a different way to the black guy. If the white guy had been shot dead on the spot, this video wouldn't have been made. If the black guy was reacted to the same as the white guy, the video wouldn't have been made. It's also quite possible that it took multiple attempts to get the results that were being sought to get the video to show the narrative that was being pushed.

On top of all this, it does nothing to prove that any law is written differently for black people as opposed to white people. That's what you were attempting to convince me of.
 
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TLK Valentine

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That sort of reasoning is in lockstep with the narrative that guns aren't already heavily regulated. If you believe that they aren't, let's take a look at just the state laws of California regarding firearms. These don't even include the Federal regulations: California Gun Laws | GunsToCarry Guide

If they are already heavily regulated, then one more rule should not be cause for such hysterics.

And yet they are.
 
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TLK Valentine

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I already saw that video, and not just when you posted it, but long before that when the issue was brought up prior. It doesn't prove anything. All they did was have a black guy and a white guy carry an AR15 down a sidewalk and made a video of when an officer responded one way to the white guy and a different way to the black guy. If the white guy had been shot dead on the spot, this video wouldn't have been made. If the black guy was reacted to the same as the white guy, the video wouldn't have been made. It's also quite possible that it took multiple attempts to get the results that were being sought to get the video to show the narrative that was being pushed.

"It's also quite possible" that both the black guy and the white guy were each 27 ferrets in human suits.... but it seems unlikely.

I see videos don't convince you of what you don't want to be convinced of.

On top of all this, it does nothing to prove that any law is written differently for black people as opposed to white people. That's what you were attempting to convince me of.

Wrong as usual. I was convincing you that the laws are enforced differently. You choose not to see that, so naturally, you didn't.

But I do congratulate you on utilizing the link.
 
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Aldebaran

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If they are already heavily regulated, then one more rule should not be cause for such hysterics.

And yet they are.

If hey are already heavily regulated, then regulation is obviously not the way of achieving the goals that people say they want them for.
Perhaps enforcing the regulations we already have would be a better way to go? Just an idea.
 
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"It's also quite possible" that both the black guy and the white guy were each 27 ferrets in human suits.... but it seems unlikely.

That's racist to think that the black guy was actually 27 ferrets!

I see videos don't convince you of what you don't want to be convinced of.

I've seen Youtube videos (long ones!) that supposedly prove the earth to be flat. If a video is all it would take to convince you of such a thing, then please stay away from Youtube.

Wrong as usual. I was convincing you that the laws are enforced differently. You choose not to see that, so naturally, you didn't.

But I do congratulate you on utilizing the link.

You weren't convincing me of anything other than that you can pick out a video that aligns with your way of thinking, and that you're able to post a link to it. But I do congratulate you on posting it.
 
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TLK Valentine

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If hey are already heavily regulated, then regulation is obviously not the way of achieving the goals that people say they want them for.

Not necessarily. I suspect your idea of "heavily regulated" differes from others'

Perhaps enforcing the regulations we already have would be a better way to go? Just an idea.

We can do both -- we can enforce regulations already on the books, and add new ones as necessary.
 
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Not necessarily. I suspect your idea of "heavily regulated" differes from others'

You can leave the word "heavily" out of it if you want to. Some people seem to be under the impression that there are NO regulations regarding firearms, and that gun owners are trying to keep it that way. As I've already pointed out, they are very much regulated, even at the state level.

We can do both -- we can enforce regulations already on the books, and add new ones as necessary.

Often to the detriment of the law-abiding. Those who aren't even a gun owner don't seem to care too much about that because it wouldn't affect them personally.
 
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TLK Valentine

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You can leave the word "heavily" out of it if you want to. Some people seem to be under the impression that there are NO regulations regarding firearms, and that gun owners are trying to keep it that way. As I've already pointed out, they are very much regulated, even at the state level.

Indeed -- and that is a common misconception concerning a lot of issues... the border being one of them. If I had a nickel for every time I head "the Dems want open borders!" I could retire. But I digress...

Then the issue is not "regulation vs. no regulation" as some people would think it is, but rather "is there already too much regulation, not enough, or just the right amount"?

Certainly, well-meaning people on all sides of the issue are allowed to have opinions on all points of this spectrum -- as always, it would, of course, be preferable to have informed opinions, but alas, we don't always get what we should.

Often to the detriment of the law-abiding.

True, and that's an unfortunate inconvenience... but hardly the first.

Consider: On December 22, 2001, Richard Reid attempted to detonate an explosive concealed in his shoe. Now, this attempt failed because Reid (rocket scientist he was not) failed to take two important factors into consideration in his plan:

1. Bomb fuses are nigh impossible to light when damp, and
2. Feet tend to sweat, especially in stressful situations.

As a result of this single failed attempt to conceal a bomb in a shoe, to this day, tens of thousands of passengers on foreign and domestic flights are forced to remove their shoes so the TSA can check them for... you guessed it... hidden explosives. No word yet on whether or not they've ever found any since Reid's abortive attempt... but they persist.

Now, considering that the number of firearm-related mass murders, massacres, and general bloodbaths in the United States is far more than one, people are naturally concerned about insuring that the kind of people who perpetrate these atrocities at the very least, don't have too easy a job procuring their preferred tools.

Those who aren't even a gun owner don't seem to care too much about that because it wouldn't affect them personally.

If scores of dead schoolchildren have taught us nothing else, it's that one need not own a gun in order to be "personally affected" by one.

Now, I'm no "gun-grabber," although I've been called on in the past. I started a thread a couple of years ago with my own modest proposal for common sense gun laws... only three laws, in fact.

Here's the thread: "Common Sense" gun laws...

I'm still a bit fuzzy on exactly how these three laws would be enforced (and indeed, I already know that #1 is already on the books, but enforcement, well...) but if they could be enforced across the board, you'll never hear me complain about the legality of any firearm.

(I'll still complain about the wisdom of certain firearm choices -- if you need something with a 30-round magazine "to hunt deer," you might as well use a howitzer. ;) )
 
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CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

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That sort of reasoning is in lockstep with the narrative that guns aren't already heavily regulated. If you believe that they aren't, let's take a look at just the state laws of California regarding firearms. These don't even include the Federal regulations: California Gun Laws | GunsToCarry Guide
I know CA gun laws and don't see mental evaluation every two months. Everyone in the house hold should have mental evaluation. You cant be two safe. Sadly that would never happen. So more shootings.
 
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Indeed -- and that is a common misconception concerning a lot of issues... the border being one of them. If I had a nickel for every time I head "the Dems want open borders!" I could retire. But I digress...

I guess the truth can make you rich as well as free.

Then the issue is not "regulation vs. no regulation" as some people would think it is, but rather "is there already too much regulation, not enough, or just the right amount"?

Certainly, well-meaning people on all sides of the issue are allowed to have opinions on all points of this spectrum -- as always, it would, of course, be preferable to have informed opinions, but alas, we don't always get what we should.

Opinions aren't what's needed, but action based on what would actually work. We've already seen what hasn't worked (bans, red flag laws), and there's no point in doubling down on those things.

(I'll still complain about the wisdom of certain firearm choices -- if you need something with a 30-round magazine "to hunt deer," you might as well use a howitzer. ;) )

That's just a strawman that those who want to see certain guns banned like to use.
I guess some people like to complain about wisdom that exists only in their own head.
 
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I know CA gun laws and don't see mental evaluation every two months. Everyone in the house hold should have mental evaluation. You cant be two safe. Sadly that would never happen. So more shootings.

Why not each month? Or how about every week? After all, you can't be two safe, right? A mental evaluation every week for every gun owner would be a boon for the mental healthcare industry to the bankruptcy of gun owners. But then that wouldn't matter to those who simply want to see guns either not allowed to be owned, or require the owners to spend so much money to exercise the right that they're priced out of the Second Amendment. That's the same idea as when 10,000% sales taxes were proposed on buying ammunition.
 
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TLK Valentine

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I guess the truth can make you rich as well as free.

Not nearly as rich as ignorance... but you need not make my points for me; I already said it was a digression.

Opinions aren't what's needed, but action based on what would actually work. We've already seen what hasn't worked (bans, red flag laws), and there's no point in doubling down on those things.

Well, bans against specific models of firearms are counterproductive, I agree... they only create a demand for the model in question before the ban goes into effect.

And there's no way to gauge the effectiveness of red flag laws at preventing massacres since we can't obviously know about massacres that didn't happen...

So you're half right, anyway. What we need is some in-depth research into discovering what might work, and putting such policies in place as a test case.

That's just a strawman that those who want to see certain guns banned like to use.
I guess some people like to complain about wisdom that exists only in their own head.

Actually it's just a joke. I suppose there's a ban on senses of humor that has gone into effect.
 
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Well, bans against specific models of firearms are counterproductive, I agree... they only create a demand for the model in question before the ban goes into effect.

Even aside from that, a ban on certain models just creates a larger demand on a different one. Gun owners buy what works for them. In the case of the AR15, gun buyers like the modularity and ability to customize. Also the accuracy at longer ranges, light recoil, and also the higher capacity and the ability to use different calibers by changing the upper portion.

Of course, the more uninformed people will only see them as being the choice of school shooters.

And there's no way to gauge the effectiveness of red flag laws at preventing massacres since we can't obviously know about massacres that didn't happen...

Although there's plenty of opportunity to abuse such laws.

So you're half right, anyway. What we need is some in-depth research into discovering what might work, and putting such policies in place as a test case.

That's already been done, and the same old ideas come out each time: Bans on certain guns, confiscations under certain conditions, red flag laws, bans on carrying in certain places, bans on magazines over a certain number of rounds---none of which would prevent someone who wants to kill people from doing so. Just more government control that limits the rights of gun owners. When another shooting happens, the outcry is for more government control. It hasn't worked so far, and more of it isn't going to help.
 
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TLK Valentine

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Even aside from that, a ban on certain models just creates a larger demand on a different one. Gun owners buy what works for them. In the case of the AR15, gun buyers like the modularity and ability to customize. Also the accuracy at longer ranges, light recoil, and also the higher capacity and the ability to use different calibers by changing the upper portion.

Of course, the more uninformed people will only see them as being the choice of school shooters.

They are quite versatile, which, unfortunately, makes them attractive to would-be maniacs as well as legitimate firearms enthusiasts.

Although there's plenty of opportunity to abuse such laws.

The same could be said for any law. But your point is valid, which means such laws should be used sparingly and their invocation monitored closely in order to prevent abuse... or at the very least, old abusing agencies accountable.

Nevertheless, there is a certain logic to them. We both agree that criminals should not have access to firearms. Now, a person who goes on social media and posts about his intent or desire to kill/injure someone has just committed a criminal act -- threats are not protected speech under the First Amendment, after all. The authorities will be called in to investigate the validity of those threats, and while they do, it would be quite prudent of them to remove any firearms from your possession until they determine whether or not your threats were legitimate.

There is a legal precedent for this. Consider: Under the Fourth Amendment, the police cannot search or seize your property without due process, vis a vis, a warrant.

Now, suppose the police have probable cause to search your house (you're not home at the time) -- they can phone a D.A., who will run to a judge, who will sign a warrant, which will be delivered to the officers ASAP. Now, while this is happening, you come home and see the police waiting outside your door.

Until that warrant is delivered, they still cannot enter your house... but they can "secure the scene," which means stopping you from entering your own home, based on their belief that you will tamper with, remove, or destroy evidence while they're waiting for the warrant to arrive.

Seems to me that the same principle applies to red flag laws. Your right to bear arms is not being infringed -- the firearms are still yours, but, like your home, you don't have access to them until the police complete their investigation.

That's already been done, and the same old ideas come out each time: Bans on certain guns, confiscations under certain conditions, red flag laws, bans on carrying in certain places, bans on magazines over a certain number of rounds---none of which would prevent someone who wants to kill people from doing so.

I wouldn't consider that "in depth research"; just the usual emotional outcry one would expect in the wake of whatever most recent massacre occurred that week.

The time to talk about responsible gun ownership (and the steps to insure that only responsible owners have them) shouldn't be right after a grammar school gets shot up... sadly, it seems the only time people are willing to speak or listen.

Just more government control that limits the rights of gun owners. When another shooting happens, the outcry is for more government control. It hasn't worked so far, and more of it isn't going to help.

In all fairness, it hasn't worked because it hasn't been tried. The outcry is for "more government control," but it rarely proceeds beyond a token level. For example, Donald's already done more for gun control in his 3 1/2 years in office than Obama did in 8... and yet Obama was the big bad gun grabber.

Read for yourself what the NRA had to say to combat Obama's re-election:"If Barack Obama wins a second term in office, our Second Amendment freedom will not survive. Obama will never have to face the voters again, and will therefore be unleashed to push the most extreme elements of his gun-ban agenda to every corner of America."

And yet, what did Obama end up taking away?
 
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