Virginia HB961 - Actual gun confiscation unless you register it with the state

[98cwitr]

I am familiar with it, and I see it as a way to change the meaning of the 2nd amendment and a way to skirt around any reasonable government regulation.

That's because government regulation was never intended. The "shall not be infringed" part is rather direct.

 

[Hank77]

Highly unlikely. Large numbers of gun owners could likely be ruled out a priori before the door-to-door began and then the concentration would be on owners who could or would not produce the gun that was registered to them.

Under a well-crafted registration program that would no longer be possible.

How? We're talking about one state here, not a bill at the federal level. Are they going to search vehicles that leave and then return to the state?

 

[Hank77]

Quite right. And if your gun is stolen or otherwise goes astray and subsequently used in a crime and you didn't report it, then as the last known registered owner you would be on the hook for abetting. That would motivate owners to keep their guns safe and secure and to not sell them without a proper title transfer.

I'm for a federal law for universal background checks which would take care of that issue with gun sales.
If I were going to sell one of my guns to someone who I didn't know very, very well, I would insist on a background check whether it was legally necessary or not. I'd want to be sure as possible that I wasn't selling to a person who had done violent acts.

 

[Hank77]

Remember it is on the STATE to prove guilt, so even if they arrested you does not mean a thing unless they can prove it.

But it could still cost you a lot of money in attorney's fees to represent you.

 

[A Realist]

How come no one here is complaining that machine guns are heavily regulated and must be registered?

There are criminals out there with fully automatic weapons...should we be able to possess such weapons without needing to register them?

They are, after all, firearms....is the gubmint infringing on our rights because they are heavily regulated?

 

[iluvatar5150]

To address the second part there is a little thing called probable cause. That only works if the cop sees it they cannot drive up in people's yards and FIND it. If they do so the ticket will be thrown out.

Do you drive? Establishing probably cause with regards to vehicle registration is trivial. Registered vehicles have to display a valid license plate, and most license plates have to have stickers on them indicating the year(s) in which they're valid. Anybody with halfway decent eyesight could manage this.

Do rally permits cost money?

I imagine this varies by municipality, but around here, there's at least an application fee. If my experience with building permits extends to event permits, then the fee would go up as more "stuff" is added, such as signage/banners, police presence, etc.

Does failure to register a rally permit result in a felony?

Not that I'm aware of, though I don't see how that's relevant.

 

[dogs4thewin]

As most guns used in crimes by felons are stolen from people's homes, and as most accidental discharges resulting in the injury or death of a child are both from firearms that are unsecured, I think it's reasonable to at least to have you agree to safely store your firearm. I really didn't have much of an opinion on this until I had children. That said, if my 15 year old is home alone and someone tries to break in, I think they need a way of protecting themselves too.

that is why it is important to teach gun safety. There is a big difference in say a five year old and a fifteen year old with an unsecured gun. With the five year old you could say well they thought it was a toy that is on you for not teaching gun safety, but a decade later the fifteen year old should certainly know better and therefore unless there were other factors at play as to why the gun should not have been within unsecured access of the fifteen year old the parent should not be held liable for any actions purposeful or not committed by the fifteen year old with a gun.

 

[Hank77]

and if they take them into custody they must be read their rights which means they would not have to answer questions. Otherwise they could simply leave and still not answer any questions.

I don't know about you but I wouldn't want to be interrogated for something I had nothing to do with. I wouldn't want to miss hours at work, costing me money, and I wouldn't want them taking possession of my gun for what could be weeks, I wouldn't want the police checking out my alibi by going to my employer asking if I was at work, etc. If I'm keeping my nose clean, I shouldn't be bothered by the police rooting around in my business.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Do you drive? Establishing probably cause with regards to vehicle registration is trivial. Registered vehicles have to display a valid license plate, and most license plates have to have stickers on them indicating the year(s) in which they're valid. Anybody with halfway decent eyesight could manage this.



I imagine this varies by municipality, but around here, there's at least an application fee. If my experience with building permits extends to event permits, then the fee would go up as more "stuff" is added, such as signage/banners, police presence, etc.



Not that I'm aware of, though I don't see how that's relevant.

no I do not drive ironically for the same reason I do not own a gun my motor skills nor eyesight as a result of my disability will allow neither.

 

[dogs4thewin]

I don't know about you but I wouldn't want to be interrogated for something I had nothing to do with. I wouldn't want to miss hours at work, costing me money, and I wouldn't want them taking possession of my gun for what could be weeks, I wouldn't want the police checking out my alibi by going to my employer asking if I was at work, etc. If I'm keeping my nose clean, I shouldn't be bothered by the police rooting around in my business.

Me too, but my point was that they may not be able to question people because people have the right to refuse to answer police questions whether in custody or not. Long as you do not lie.

 

[durangodawood]

That's because government regulation was never intended. The "shall not be infringed" part is rather direct.

Nobody.... and I mean less than 99.8% of people believe there should be no regulation of gun ownership or carrying at all.

 

[Speedwell]

I don't know about you but I wouldn't want to be interrogated for something I had nothing to do with. I wouldn't want to miss hours at work, costing me money, and I wouldn't want them taking possession of my gun for what could be weeks, I wouldn't want the police checking out my alibi by going to my employer asking if I was at work, etc. If I'm keeping my nose clean, I shouldn't be bothered by the police rooting around in my business.

And you would deserve every bit of it for failing to follow the registration requirements. If your gun turns up at a crime scene and you haven't reported it lost, stolen or sold then you are rightly in the hot seat.

 

[Speedwell]

that is why it is important to teach gun safety. There is a big difference in say a five year old and a fifteen year old with an unsecured gun. With the five year old you could say well they thought it was a toy that is on you for not teaching gun safety, but a decade later the fifteen year old should certainly know better and therefore unless there were other factors at play as to why the gun should not have been within unsecured access of the fifteen year old the parent should not be held liable for any actions purposeful or not committed by the fifteen year old with a gun.

Not quite. An unemancipated dependent of yours, you bear responsibility.

 

[Speedwell]

How? We're talking about one state here, not a bill at the federal level. Are they going to search vehicles that leave and then return to the state?

Oh, I see. I was under the impression that the discussion had expanded to cover gun registration at the federal level as well. That is, that we were talking about the principle of gun registration vis a vis the 2nd Amendment.

But you are right, and that's why I think doing gun control on a state or local level is silly. It works for cars because the states are all cooperating about it and have much the same standards and requirements. I think of my old stompin' grounds, Chicago. Chicago has tough gun laws but gun crimes are commonplace because a person can slip over to Indiana and buy anything he wants out of the trunk of a car at a gun show, no questions asked.

 

[Hank77]

Me too, but my point was that they may not be able to question people because people have the right to refuse to answer police questions whether in custody or not. Long as you do not lie.

I think in this type of crime they aren't just going to turn you loose if you refuse to answer at least basic questions, you're now viewed as a suspect. Most jurisdictions can hold a suspect at least 24 hrs. without officially arresting them and in this type of crime probably longer.

 

[98cwitr]

Do you drive? Establishing probably cause with regards to vehicle registration is trivial. Registered vehicles have to display a valid license plate, and most license plates have to have stickers on them indicating the year(s) in which they're valid. Anybody with halfway decent eyesight could manage this.

Sure, but again, owning a car isn't a constitutional right.

I imagine this varies by municipality, but around here, there's at least an application fee. If my experience with building permits extends to event permits, then the fee would go up as more "stuff" is added, such as signage/banners, police presence, etc.

Demonstrations and Protests

Do I need a permit before I engage in free speech activity?
Not usually. However, certain types of events require permits. Generally, these events are:

• A march or parade that does not stay on the sidewalk, and other events that require blocking traffic or street closure
• A large rally requiring the use of sound amplifying devices; or
• A rally at certain designated parks or plazas

Many permit procedures require that the application be filed several weeks in advance of the event. However, the First Amendment prohibits such an advance notice requirement from being used to prevent rallies or demonstrations that are rapid responses to unforeseeable and recent events. Also, many permit ordinances give a lot of discretion to the police or city officials to impose conditions on the event, such as the route of a march or the sound levels of amplification equipment. Such restrictions may violate the First Amendment if they are unnecessary for traffic control or public safety, or if they interfere significantly with effective communication with the intended audience. A permit cannot be denied because the event is controversial or will express unpopular views.

Not that I'm aware of, though I don't see how that's relevant.

Because in the case of the tyrannical laws being attempted by Virginia legislators, failure to register makes you a class 6 felon.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Not quite. An unemancipated dependent of yours, you bear responsibility.

should you though? In that case why are parents not arrested if their kid say shoplifts?

 

[dogs4thewin]

And you would deserve every bit of it for failing to follow the registration requirements. If your gun turns up at a crime scene and you haven't reported it lost, stolen or sold then you are rightly in the hot seat.

Does not work that way, it is on the state to prove whether I did anything wrong.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Oh, I see. I was under the impression that the discussion had expanded to cover gun registration at the federal level as well. That is, that we were talking about the principle of gun registration vis a vis the 2nd Amendment.

But you are right, and that's why I think doing gun control on a state or local level is silly. It works for cars because the states are all cooperating about it and have much the same standards and requirements. I think of my old stompin' grounds, Chicago. Chicago has tough gun laws but gun crimes are commonplace because a person can slip over to Indiana and buy anything he wants out of the trunk of a car at a gun show, no questions asked.

and people who want to commit crimes will get guns through the black market no matter which state they are in.

 

[dogs4thewin]

I think in this type of crime they aren't just going to turn you loose if you refuse to answer at least basic questions, you're now viewed as a suspect. Most jurisdictions can hold a suspect at least 24 hrs. without officially arresting them and in this type of crime probably longer.

Yes, but at some point, I believe it is like 72 hours at some point they either charge or release. The exception would be if there were another charge they could hold them on for longer.