Nazis Return to Charlottesville

[Ringo84]

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Ringo

 

[football5680]

I'd administer punches to the face until they feared coming out with their little tiki torches. I certainly wouldn't whine about free speech or act smug to people who were trying to actually drive Nazis back into the shadows, that's for sure.

Do you think your punches would have any effect on the Übermensch? I think not.

 

[super animator]

I'd administer punches to the face until they feared coming out with their little tiki torches. I certainly wouldn't whine about free speech or act smug to people who were trying to actually drive Nazis back into the shadows, that's for sure.

You can scurry on back to wherever you came from now. I'm done with you.
Ringo

You clearly do not understand about free speech then, as it was made to protect,unpopular speech not popular speech.

 

[Ringo84]

You clearly do not understand about free speech then, as it was made to protect,unpopular speech not popular speech.

"Won't someone think of the Nazis' free speech?"

Ringo

 

[Rion]

I believe you when you say that you hate Nazis. No sarcasm. The problem is that in your hand-wringing quest to find the center, several things happen:

1. The real issue at hand - Nazis - is lost in a lot of blather about Communism/Marxism
2. We remain divided
3. Your point looks like making excuses for Nazis, even though I know that's not your purpose. But it's the practical effect of these posts.

If you hate "identity politics" so much, then your target should be the Nazis, since they're the ultimate identity politicians: they define themselves by their skin color, feeling aggrieved and "persecuted" because they think that the white race is somehow being legislated out of existence - or something. I don't even know the "substance" of their "arguments". I doubt antifa has identity politics aside from 'Nazis are bad and should be dealt with when they pop up'.
Ringo

Yeah, and so do a LOT of leftists. Three or four years ago, I was pointing out that if the left kept pushing identity politics and the grievance mentality, that it would result in an uptick in white nationalism. I mean, look around the board: you have people who want to constantly try to paint the country as this inherently oppressive and racist country, and who will hijack every thread to make it about race. You can't get rid of white nationalism without getting rid of black nationalism, Hispanic nationalism, etc. It'd be like removing a tumor from one side of the body while leaving the other tumors in the other side.

 

[Ringo84]

Right...these people didn't choose to be Nazis. If those meany liberals hadn't had the audacity to say that colored people were equal, then they would have never become white supremacists. It's all so simple: liberals are to blame for Heather Heyer, Jason Kessler, modern white supremacism, etc.!
Ringo

 

[Rion]

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Ringo

Pretty sure that you can get reported for flaming for that.

You clearly do not understand about free speech then, as it was made to protect,unpopular speech not popular speech.

You may have seen me mention moral panics here and elsewhere. This is the type of behavior that inevitability results when you are caught up in one. Rather than talk over things rationally, it becomes an either / or scenario, with no room for debate or reason. Those who are caught up in the panic believe that extreme, and often illegal, measures must be taken to stop the pending doom.

 

[Ringo84]

Perhaps, but I don't have the least bit of sympathy. I'm just throwing exactly what they were saying back at them. Can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen.
Ringo

 

[Moral Orel]

"Won't someone think of the Nazis' free speech?"

I disagree with those who have said the 1st Amendment is for unpopular speech. It's to protect all speech of citizens from tyranny of the state. It is unfortunate that some things some people say is bad, but to give the government the authority to decide what is okay to say and what is not okay to say puts any speech, whether popular or unpopular, good or evil, at risk.

It isn't about defending bad people, it's about preventing authoritarianism. I'm not against the government censoring Nazis because I think Nazis deserve to be heard. I'm against the government censoring Nazis because it shouldn't have the authority to censor anyone.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I disagree with those who have said the 1st Amendment is for unpopular speech. It's to protect all speech of citizens from tyranny of the state. It is unfortunate that some things some people say is bad, but to give the government the authority to decide what is okay to say and what is not okay to say puts any speech, whether popular or unpopular, good or evil, at risk.

It isn't about defending bad people, it's about preventing authoritarianism. I'm not against the government censoring Nazis because I think Nazis deserve to be heard. I'm against the government censoring Nazis because it shouldn't have the authority to censor anyone.

Well said...I'd just point out that the reason people say it's for unpopular speech is because popular speech doesn't need protection. It's the unpopular, controversial, ideas which need protection.

 

[Ringo84]

Oh no...the government shouldn't censor them at all.

I'm not being sarcastic. Let them go back to Charlottesville with their little tiki torches and swastikas and Hitler t-shirts. I'm quite sure that many citizens in Charlottesville will take care of the problem themselves and bash the fash.

It should be made clear to these people, in no uncertain terms, that this country is not a safe space for white supremacy.
Ringo

 

[Moral Orel]

Well said...I'd just point out that the reason people say it's for unpopular speech is because popular speech doesn't need protection. It's the unpopular, controversial, ideas which need protection.

So let's say the government gains such power to determine what people can and cannot say. Then proceeds to become more vile and corrupt in all manner of ways. Most Americans would understandably speak out against it, and it would be popular to state as much, but the state would of course stop them. All speech needs protected from the state, even when it's popular amongst the people.

 

[Moral Orel]

Oh no...the government shouldn't censor them at all.

I'm not being sarcastic. Let them go back to Charlottesville with their little tiki torches and swastikas and Hitler t-shirts. I'm quite sure that many citizens in Charlottesville will take care of the problem themselves and bash the fash.

It should be made clear to these people, in no uncertain terms, that this country is not a safe space for white supremacy.
Ringo

Okay, but the people who "bash" them still need to go to jail. We can't allow citizens to decide who deserves a beat down and who doesn't either.

I'll put it to you this way, morally I'm with you. I don't feel bad if a Nazi gets his head cracked, and I don't think the one doing the cracking is a villain. But morals aren't laws. Sometimes some folk can do good things and they should still go to prison.

ETA I'm against violence against Nazis for practical purposes, not moral reasons. It isn't that it's wrong, it's that it's ineffective.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Oh no...the government shouldn't censor them at all.

I'm not being sarcastic. Let them go back to Charlottesville with their little tiki torches and swastikas and Hitler t-shirts. I'm quite sure that many citizens in Charlottesville will take care of the problem themselves and bash the fash.

It should be made clear to these people, in no uncertain terms, that this country is not a safe space for white supremacy.
Ringo

That's up to them if they want to go to jail.

 

[Ana the Ist]

So let's say the government gains such power to determine what people can and cannot say. Then proceeds to become more vile and corrupt in all manner of ways. Most Americans would understandably speak out against it, and it would be popular to state as much, but the state would of course stop them. All speech needs protected from the state, even when it's popular amongst the people.

It's just a point of explaining freedom of speech to idiots like antifa who want to limit it. Of course all speech should be protected, but only unpopular speech really needs it. At one point abolishing slavery was unpopular, giving women the right to vote was unpopular, civil rights for blacks was unpopular...and so on.

Besides, I like my nazis where I can see and hear them...not underground where they can scheme in the dark.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Okay, but the people who "bash" them still need to go to jail. We can't allow citizens to decide who deserves a beat down and who doesn't either.

I'll put it to you this way, morally I'm with you. I don't feel bad if a Nazi gets his head cracked, and I don't think the one doing the cracking is a villain. But morals aren't laws. Sometimes some folk can do good things and they should still go to prison.

ETA I'm against violence against Nazis for practical purposes, not moral reasons. It isn't that it's wrong, it's that it's ineffective.

I kinda liked Moral Orel, Nick, it was a funny cartoon but a little too smart for itself. The things it satirized weren't subtle enough...and the result was often something that was a mix of tragedy and comedy.

I still remember one episode called "Numb" I think that was at the same time one of the funniest and yet most depressing cartoons I've ever seen (except for maybe Drinky Crow). I dare not talk about the plot of the episode, but it centered on the mother and her marriage without any passion, excitement, attention, affection, or anyone who cared.

Too smart for itself.

 

[Moral Orel]

I kinda liked Moral Orel, Nick, it was a funny cartoon but a little too smart for itself. The things it satirized weren't subtle enough...and the result was often something that was a mix of tragedy and comedy.

I still remember one episode called "Numb" I think that was at the same time one of the funniest and yet most depressing cartoons I've ever seen (except for maybe Drinky Crow). I dare not talk about the plot of the episode, but it centered on the mother and her marriage without any passion, excitement, attention, affection, or anyone who cared.

Too smart for itself.

Oh Morel Orel was great! It was pretty subtle though. It managed to be pro-Christian, and be boycotted by Christians simultaneously because most people couldn't see it, but it was there. I don't think it was meant to be a comedy. I think Dino had an idea he wanted to put out there, and he mixed in comedy to keep people's attention while he did it. The last season was too heavy, but that was because they found out they were cancelled and had to rush in all the bad stuff that was important, and didn't have time to soften it with the fluffier episodes.

"Numb" was great. The song that played in that episode, "No Children" by The Mountain Goats, was amazing/depressing too. They have a few other great songs, but they're so indie, it's a lot of hit-and-miss.

I didn't pick Morel as my avatar because Morel Orel was my favorite show or anything like that. This place (Christian Forums) feel like Moralton so much sometimes. I feel like Orel: asking questions, and a crazy cast of characters has who-knows-what in store for me in the answers department.

Anyways, weird response to me tacitly endorsing violence in a thread about Nazis, but I always love to talk about little Orel! Oh, and check out Rick and Morty if you haven't yet, it's too smart for itself too!

 

[Ana the Ist]

Oh Morel Orel was great! It was pretty subtle though. It managed to be pro-Christian, and be boycotted by Christians simultaneously because most people couldn't see it, but it was there. I don't think it was meant to be a comedy. I think Dino had an idea he wanted to put out there, and he mixed in comedy to keep people's attention while he did it. The last season was too heavy, but that was because they found out they were cancelled and had to rush in all the bad stuff that was important, and didn't have time to soften it with the fluffier episodes.

"Numb" was great. The song that played in that episode, "No Children" by The Mountain Goats, was amazing/depressing too. They have a few other great songs, but they're so indie, it's a lot of hit-and-miss.

I didn't pick Morel as my avatar because Morel Orel was my favorite show or anything like that. This place (Christian Forums) feel like Moralton so much sometimes. I feel like Orel: asking questions, and a crazy cast of characters has who-knows-what in store for me in the answers department.

Anyways, weird response to me tacitly endorsing violence in a thread about Nazis, but I always love to talk about little Orel! Oh, and check out Rick and Morty if you haven't yet, it's too smart for itself too!

I love Rick and Morty, my wife and I have been watching it since the first episode. It also carries that sense of tragedy along with it's humor. I'd be surprised if Moral Orel wasn't intended as a comedy...it's very funny, but like I said it's not too subtle on its critique of religion and I think that put a lot of people off.

Drinky Crow on the other hand was all about laughing at the absurd horror of life. It was far too dark...darker even than MO...for most people I think. A suicidal alcoholic crow isn't exactly a wonderful choice for humor...and more times than not, I think it's themes hit a little too close for home. My wife almost cannot watch it.

 

[KCfromNC]

You clearly do not understand about free speech then, as it was made to protect,unpopular speech not popular speech.

But not necessarily speech which incites followers to run over people with their cars.

 

[KCfromNC]

Yeah, and so do a LOT of leftists. Three or four years ago, I was pointing out that if the left kept pushing identity politics and the grievance mentality, that it would result in an uptick in white nationalism. I mean, look around the board: you have people who want to constantly try to paint the country as this inherently oppressive and racist country, and who will hijack every thread to make it about race. You can't get rid of white nationalism without getting rid of black nationalism, Hispanic nationalism, etc. It'd be like removing a tumor from one side of the body while leaving the other tumors in the other side.

Still complaining about "leftists" rather than condemning Nazis, I see.