Nazis Return to Charlottesville

[Ana the Ist]

I'm just interested in how someone gets to the point where they're more so in distracting thread after thread by bashing people who are opposing Nazis. I just don't understand how someone would think that's the most important thing to bring up in those discussions.

I'll say that personally, I noticed antifa when they "protested" (and I use that word lightly because they supposedly burned cars and smashed windows) Milo at Berkeley. While I've seen various groups of idiotic white supremacists hold rallies my entire life, it was the first time I remember seeing a group actually show up to impede someone's freedom of speech and celebrate for doing so.

I don't like Milo in the least, nor do I agree with the vast majority of what he has to say, but following Berkeley I saw antifa members give interviews where they happily admitted to stopping someone from speaking because they are against "fascism" without even a tiny sense of the irony in that statement. I was appalled that there was a group going around with the intention of denying people their freedom of speech and justifying it by claiming that person was a fascist (though I'm fairly certain Milo isn't a fascist).

I figured that this would be immediately condemned by both the right and left for being the exact kind of tactics that fascists use and completely against our right to freedom of speech...but it wasn't. The right condemned it...the left kind of gave a half hearted "well...they're only just destroying freedom of speech for people we hate" reply.

Frankly, it saddens me to see people on this thread not only not condemn them...but support them. It's a strong reminder of why I can no longer call myself a liberal until that group manages to regain some sense.

 

[KCfromNC]

I figured that this would be immediately condemned by both the right and left for being the exact kind of tactics that fascists use and completely against our right to freedom of speech...but it wasn't.

Guess not everyone fell for the manufactured controversy and distraction.

Frankly, it saddens me to see people on this thread not only not condemn them..but support them.

I'm not sure I saw that post.

 

[KCfromNC]

You are desirability being misleading here. If you pay attention to what is saying here, you should know that it isn't the case.

Really? I just see Antifa come up again and again in threads where the subject started out discussing the recent actions of Nazis and KKK. And that's even in cases where Antifa wasn't there in response. See, for example, post 24 in this thread. I'm not sure what to call that other than a distraction and a way to drag the discussion away from the issue at hand. Not sure why a poster would feel motivated to do that over and over and over and over, but regardless it seems to be happening.

 

[SummerMadness]

Oh, I'm sure it's not.

Er... Antifa's been around since before WWII. They're the guys who got so violent and terrifying that the Germans were like "Well, the Nazis don't sound as bad as the Communists and their Antifa goons."

We're talking about these groups in the United States, hence my reference to neo-Nazis (not the original group) and glorification of genocide (I never stated they carried out genocide because they are not the Nazi Party of Germany). But this is simply obfuscation because the two groups are not equivalent.

And @KCfromNC hits the nail on the head, why is there such a campaign to derail discussion about emboldened groups of neo-Nazis and white supremacists marching in this country?

 

[super animator]

Really? I just see Antifa come up again and again in threads where the subject started out discussing the recent actions of Nazis and KKK.

That because certain posters here keep ignore the violence committed by them and keep making excuses for them when it's brought up.

 

[super animator]

We're talking about these groups in the United States, hence my reference to neo-Nazis (not the original group) and glorification of genocide (I never stated they carried out genocide because they are not the Nazi Party of Germany). But this is simply obfuscation because the two groups are not equivalent.

And @KCfromNC hits the nail on the head, why is there such a campaign to derail discussion about emboldened groups of neo-Nazis and white supremacists marching in this country?

Actually it's you that are splitting hairs here, with your "not as bad as" fallacy.

 

[SummerMadness]

That because certain posters here keep ignore the violence committed by them and keep making excuses for them when it's brought up.

I'm still waiting for all the info on the antifa murders happening across the United States. I mean they're all the same!

 

[super animator]

I'm still waiting for all the info on the antifa murders happening across the United States. I mean they're all the same!

"Not as bad as" fallacy

 

[Ana the Ist]

Guess not everyone fell for the manufactured controversy and distraction.

"Manufactured controversy"?

So in your mind...the emergence of a group that proudly uses violence to silence it's political opponents, nazi or not, is a whole lot of nothing?

I'm not sure I saw that post.

Do you want page and post numbers? Ringo is all over this thread supporting them.

 

[Rion]

We're talking about these groups in the United States, hence my reference to neo-Nazis (not the original group) and glorification of genocide (I never stated they carried out genocide because they are not the Nazi Party of Germany). But this is simply obfuscation because the two groups are not equivalent.

And @KCfromNC hits the nail on the head, why is there such a campaign to derail discussion about emboldened groups of neo-Nazis and white supremacists marching in this country?

Because people keep excusing them? Go back and look at my first post: Nazis Return to Charlottesville

I asked if he was using scare quotes in regards to Antifa, which lead to @Ringo84 to go off about how awesome Antifa is. My stance is pretty clear. Yeah, a rabid wolf is dangerous, but don't let an equally rabid lion in your house to protect you from it.

 

[SummerMadness]

"Not as bad as" fallacy

Still waiting...

Unless, we're willing to now admit they're not equivalent.

 

[super animator]

Still waiting...

If you read that link I posted, you should know it's a form of the Moral Equivalence fallacy. Lesser of the two evils is still evil. The fact that didn't commit murder (YET). Does not in anyway excused the violence that they committed.

 

[SummerMadness]

If you read that link I posted, you should know it's a form of the Moral Equivalence fallacy. Lesser of the two evils is still evil. The fact that didn't commit murder (YET). Does not in anyway excused the violence that they committed.

When did I excuse their violent behavior? You're simply doing what was done before, attempt to stretch what was said so you can attack your straw man. I never said their violence was not important, I simply point out that trying to draw a moral equivalence with antifa every time there is a discussion about neo-Nazis and/or white supremacists is a deflection. As someone already pointed out, whataboutism (oh, the irony of you bringing that up).

 

[Rion]

If you read that link I posted, you should know it's a form of the Moral Equivalence fallacy. Lesser of the two evils is still evil. The fact that didn't commit murder (YET). Does not in anyway excused the violence that they committed.

Not for lack of trying. Check out the Bike Lock guy.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I'm still waiting for all the info on the antifa murders happening across the United States. I mean they're all the same!

I think it's better that we nip this in the bud before it gets to that point. Let them know that violence against political opponents in order to silence them will not be tolerated.

Also, perhaps some mandatory education while in jail would help...since they don't seem to realize that they're using actual pre-WW2 nazis used to silence and intimidate their opponents.

 

[super animator]

I simply point out that trying to draw a moral equivalence with antifa every time there is a discussion about neo-Nazis and/or white supremacists is a deflection.

HOW!? By point out that certain posters here are being inconsistent by ignoring and making excuses for antifa!? That not "drawing a moral equivalence"! That is point out peoples inconstant behavior here. Literally. Rion is not the one committing the moral equivalence fallacy here. On the contrary, you act like the moral equivalence of antifa and neo-nazis is somehow relevant here by arguing that they are not literally moral equivalent. Newsflash it isn't.

 

[SummerMadness]

HOW!? By point out that certain posters here are being inconsistent by ignoring and making excuses for antifa!? That not "drawing a moral equivalence"! That is point out peoples inconstant behavior here. Literally. Rion is not the one committing the moral equivalence fallacy here.

No, he just posts threads claiming antifa and neo-Nazis are morally equivalent.

 

[super animator]

No, he just posts threads claiming antifa and neo-Nazis are morally equivalent.

Citation needed.

 

[SummerMadness]

Citation needed.

Do I have permission to post a link to your thread @Rion?

 

[Ana the Ist]

When did I excuse their violent behavior? You're simply doing what was done before, attempt to stretch what was said so you can attack your straw man. I never said their violence was not important, I simply point out that trying to draw a moral equivalence with antifa every time there is a discussion about neo-Nazis and/or white supremacists is a deflection. As someone already pointed out, whataboutism (oh, the irony of you bringing that up).

No one here has said that anything nazis stand for is morally acceptable...nor have they said it's the same as using violence to attack political opponents. No one is making "moral equivalents" here...

There have been posters though, who have staunchly defended the idea that it's not just acceptable to attack political opponents, but that such behavior should be normalized as an acceptable response to political disagreement...and that those who use violence shouldn't even be prosecuted as such.