Nazis Return to Charlottesville

[TLK Valentine]

What possible benefit do they expect from this?

Maybe this time it was just the "really good people" from the Nazi party who returned? You know... to apologize for the inconvenience last time?

 

[Rion]

So, slight difference here. The Satanic Panic of the 1980's had no basis in fact--there weren't Satanists and witch covens making ritual sacrifices all over America; on the other hand there are Nazis.

The difference between fact and fiction is an important one.

Yeah, there's like 2,500 in this country by the FBI's last count. I'm sure if you looked hard enough, you could've found about that many ritualistic child abusers back then too. The key aspect of a moral panic is not to invent something necessarily whole-cloth, but to massively conflate the size and scope of the perceived thread.

Since always. Perhaps what you mean to talk about is Stalinism or Maoism. Fascist and totalitarian regimes which were Communist in name only

Ah, you're one of those No True Scotsman Communist guys. Please, name me one communist regime that didn't turn into a totalitarian nightmare. Just one.

Further problem? Pretending that being anti-Nazi means being a Communist. Turns out it's entirely possible to be anti-Nazi without being a Communist or an anarchist.

Yes, and it can be entirely possible to be anti-Nazi without wanting to support Antifa and/or Communism. Weird, isn't it?

Slander and straw.

Nope, never apologized or defended mass-murderers.

30 seconds previously

So, no, Communists are not as morally repugnant as Nazis. Stalinists? Absolutely. Maoists? Sure thing.

If #1 is true...why would you need (or want for that matter) #2?

#2 is just as cowardly, which is why when they weren't allowed to wear masks during Milo's last rally, they were surprisingly subdued.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Yeah, there's like 2,500 in this country by the FBI's last count.

Link?

 

[Rion]

Link?

I can't find the FBI link. Last time I looked was immediately after Charlottesville, and between the continued discussion of that and the FBI looking into Black Nationalist groups being reported, I'm not finding it.

However, I did find an ADL report on them, which gives similar numbers. With Hate in their Hearts: The State of White Supremacy in the United States

Hope that helps.

 

[Ringo84]

I would defend their 1st amendment rights...yes. Freedom of speech, assembly, and so on weren't created for "popular" speech or groups...they were created for unpopular ones.

Funny that I don't recall disputing that. But the right to do something doesn't mean that it should be done.

You do realize there were no nazis at Berkeley when Antifa destroyed windows and burned cars just to prevent one man from speaking? Why would you defend them?

Or are you simply going to wait until they go after someone you agree with to admit that they're a hateful, violent group bent on keeping people from exercising their rights?

"B-b-but antifa broke a window!"

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-FqZOjCSs3ik/VrmvDDGhGhI/AAAAAAAAIRA/-ByuPOoBbyM/s1600/weeping-smiley.png

I don't want to hear Nazis apologia. We defeated the Nazis in WW2. We don't need them proudly marching down American streets.
Ringo

 

[TLK Valentine]

I can't find the FBI link. Last time I looked was immediately after Charlottesville, and between the continued discussion of that and the FBI looking into Black Nationalist groups being reported, I'm not finding it.

However, I did find an ADL report on them, which gives similar numbers. With Hate in their Hearts: The State of White Supremacy in the United States

Hope that helps.

It does. Good to know there aren't a lot of official card-carrying members; now we just have to worry about the under the radar sympathizers.

You ever watch Game of Thrones? There was a scene where Tyrion Lannister had his enforcer, Bronn, appointed to head the city watch:

Bronn: "We've had all the known thieves rounded up and executed."
Tyrion: "Great... now we just have to worry about the unknown thieves."

 

[Rion]

It does. Good to know there aren't a lot of official card-carrying members; now we just have to worry about the under the radar sympathizers.

You ever watch Game of Thrones? There was a scene where Tyrion Lannister had his enforcer, Bronn, appointed to head the city watch:

Bronn: "We've had all the known thieves rounded up and executed."
Tyrion: "Great... now we just have to worry about the unknown thieves."

No, but I have read the books.

 

[TLK Valentine]

No, but I have read the books.

I was watching them out of sequence; catching whichever episode was on... Now I've been doing both -- read a book then binge watch the series to that point.

 

[thesopranopiano]

"B-b-but antifa broke a window!"

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-FqZOjCSs3ik/VrmvDDGhGhI/AAAAAAAAIRA/-ByuPOoBbyM/s1600/weeping-smiley.png

Were the windows Nazis?

 

[ViaCrucis]

Yeah, there's like 2,500 in this country by the FBI's last count. I'm sure if you looked hard enough, you could've found about that many ritualistic child abusers back then too. The key aspect of a moral panic is not to invent something necessarily whole-cloth, but to massively conflate the size and scope of the perceived thread.

Except the Satanic Panic involved imaginary things. There wasn't ritualistic abuse going on. The accusations were false, and people were falsely imprisoned.

There wasn't satanic ritual abuse happening.
There are Nazis.

Ah, you're one of those No True Scotsman Communist guys. Please, name me one communist regime that didn't turn into a totalitarian nightmare. Just one.

Perhaps you missed my criticism of Communism, it was in the same post, in fact i think it was in the same paragraph.

"There is valid criticism to be had on Marxist economic and social doctrine, perhaps one valid criticism is that it fails to grasp how deplorable human nature can be and that in the absence of power, something will naturally fill that vacuum; and thus a purely non-hierarchal society is ultimately impossible because of the inherent dangers of human nature--there will always be people who want to be at the top and rule over others on the bottom. Which is precisely the story of the October Revolution and the reign of Joseph Stalin who ruled as bloodthirsty and murderous dictator and tyrant over the Russian people."

Yes, and it can be entirely possible to be anti-Nazi without wanting to support Antifa and/or Communism. Weird, isn't it?

You mean like I and others have been doing?

30 seconds previously

How about you quote where I defended mass murderers. Alternatively, stop engaging in slander.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Let's say there's a group of people, they call themselves The Baby Punching Brigade, their belief is that punching babies is a good thing, and so they punch babies.

Let's say everyone else is appalled by this. Then there's a group of people appalled by this and they decide to punch the baby punchers.

Here's the thing, those punching baby punchers and those punching babies are not morally equivalent. It is objectively worse to punch a baby than to punch a baby puncher.

In saying this I'm not saying that it's okay to punch baby punchers, as though that is the right solution to the problem of baby punchers; but I am saying that they are not the same thing, they are not morally equal.

But then let's say you say, "But we're not talking about baby punchers, we're talking about Nazis." In which case you've just lost the argument.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Rion]

Except the Satanic Panic involved imaginary things. There wasn't ritualistic abuse going on. The accusations were false, and people were falsely imprisoned.

There wasn't satanic ritual abuse happening.
There are Nazis.

No, there's Neo-Nazis, and a very small amount of them to boot.

Perhaps you missed my criticism of Communism, it was in the same post, in fact i think it was in the same paragraph.

No, it just wasn't relevant. Communism itself is requires this strong-man group because it violates the natural human tendency on multiple levels. It is a ridiculous idea born of an abnormal mind, steeped in hatred, and only leads to misery. The daughter who lived closest to Marx's ideals ended up killing herself, for crying out loud.

You mean like I and others have been doing?

Wait, you're not defending them? "Oh, it wasn't real communism that murdered a hundred million people" "Sure, Antifa's not as bad as the Neo-Nazis. The Neo-Nazis want to kill non-whites. Antifa just wants to murder anyone to the right of Stalin! That's like saying punching baby punchers is the same as punching babies!"

How about you quote where I defended mass murderers. Alternatively, stop engaging in slander.

You keep defending communism.

Let's say there's a group of people, they call themselves The Baby Punching Brigade, their belief is that punching babies is a good thing, and so they punch babies.

Let's say everyone else is appalled by this. Then there's a group of people appalled by this and they decide to punch the baby punchers.

Here's the thing, those punching baby punchers and those punching babies are not morally equivalent. It is objectively worse to punch a baby than to punch a baby puncher.

In saying this I'm not saying that it's okay to punch baby punchers, as though that is the right solution to the problem of baby punchers; but I am saying that they are not the same thing, they are not morally equal.

But then let's say you say, "But we're not talking about baby punchers, we're talking about Nazis." In which case you've just lost the argument.

-CryptoLutheran

Then let's say that the second group considers anyone who has kids is a baby puncher and starts punching them. Then let's say they decide that people with siblings get the bullet too. That's what you're defending here.

 

[Ringo84]

Then let's say that the second group considers anyone who has kids is a baby puncher and starts punching them. Then let's say they decide that people with siblings get the bullet too. That's what you're defending here.

Which absolutely nobody has said, of course.
Ringo

 

[Go Braves]

I feel sorry for the folks at Tiki Torch who are now associated with these trolls who carry them for their pathetic antics.

 

[super animator]

Is the riot police on standby this time?

 

[ViaCrucis]

Antifa just wants to murder anyone to the right of Stalin!

They do?

Tell me, how many members of Antifa drove cars into crowds, how many have they murdered?

Oh, the answer is zero? My bad, of course you were right this whole time--people who haven't killed anyone or tried to kill anyone are definitely as bad as people that have killed. Silly me.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[super animator]

They do?
-CryptoLutheran

Nice quote mining you got there.

 

[ViaCrucis]

You keep defending communism.

I've defended Communists inasmuch as believing that the means of production should belong to the workers isn't the moral equivalent of believing in the extermination of all non-white human beings. Because they aren't, they aren't even remotely on the same playing field. That you think they are demonstrates a fundamental lack of objectivity, including moral objectivity.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Rion]

I've defended Communists inasmuch as believing that the means of production should belong to the workers isn't the moral equivalent of believing in the extermination of all non-white human beings. Because they aren't, they aren't even remotely on the same playing field. That you think they are demonstrates a fundamental lack of objectivity, including moral objectivity.

-CryptoLutheran

Have you ever actually studied Communism/Marxism? Do you think this plan of Marx comes peacefully? No, it includes the violent overthrow of the bourgeois, which isn't the upper class. It's the middle-class, like most of the idiot kids who support it these days.

Which absolutely nobody has said, of course.
Ringo

 

[Ringo84]

Gee...spray paint that anyone could have put there. I'm convinced.

People identifying themselves as Nazis marched down an American street, and all you can do is bleat about "Marxism". Maybe you should spend less time obsessing about Communism and more time...I dunno...speaking out against white supremacy? Or are you cool with that because they don't like (what you see as) Communists and Marxists either?
Ringo