Jason Kessler files for an "anniversary" rally in Charlottesville

[Trogdor the Burninator]

I for one definitely judge whether or not a protest should be permitted based on how popular its members are after protesting.
Ringo

BLM seems pretty unpopular right now. Past rallies have included violence by a small minority of trouble makers. So the next time some poor black kid is shot by police and BLM want to protest it, we're shutting them down too, right?

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

So a single rabble-rouser can outweigh the wishes of an entire city? Good to know the Supreme Court is on the side of people in Charlottesville.
Ringo

There's always a problem when you use popularity as a measure of who gets to protest

 

[Phil 1:21]

There's always a problem when you use popularity as a measure of who gets to protest

Excellent point. The same constitution that protected the rights of Elizabeth Eckford protects the rights of Jason Kessler.

 

[Ringo84]

There's always a problem when you use popularity as a measure of who gets to protest

Of course! Kessler is just like her, isn't he? What a guy, selflessly bringing Nazism back to the US. How could I stand in the way of a worthy cause like that?
Ringo

 

[Ringo84]

Sure, because what could possibly go wrong with letting one group of people deprive another group of their constitutional rights?

Exactly. It's not like protest permits have ever been denied or anything. Once an application is made, the Constitution requires it to be honored.
Ringo

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

Of course! Kessler is just like her, isn't he? What a guy, selflessly bringing Nazism back to the US. How could I stand in the way of a worthy cause like that?
Ringo

All of which completely misses the point.

The criteria that you want to base these decisions on - popularity, lack of trouble caused at rallies, what a particular town thinks of the cause - are lousy criteria to decide whether a protest gets to go ahead. If you want to use them, then you have to accept that in the past, as well as today, plenty of causes that you (and I) support would be denied their right to speak.

Even if you want to "ban nazis" - something my emotional side has no problem with - then you accept that there are people who equally would like to "ban communists" or "ban socialists". It's not like America didn't try it previously

 

[Ringo84]

I said public safety. If I'm not mistaken, I said that all the way back in the OP. I couldn't care less how popular or unpopular Kessler thinks his Nazism is to the public; the last time they were there, people died. That should play into the decision process for trusting them to march again.
Ringo

 

[Sistrin]

Oh good! I'll bring my own heavily armed security force to protect my protestors. We may light up the night with nighttime flashlight rallies. If anyone gets in our way, we may run them over in our car. But it's totally fine, correct? It's my right to protest no matter what. At 0300 in the morning on a weekday, we'll have speakers come to denounce Phil 1:21 and his family, but that'll be OK because - after all, we're permitted, right?
Ringo

Now you are being obtuse. The First Amendment is clearly worded, and affirms the right to "peaceably" assemble. It does not affirm any right to riot or disrupt, or commit vehicular homicide just because you feel like it. Geez...

...the last time they were there, people died...

The last time they were there, Antifa was there, a fact you appear to be adamant to ignore. Violence is Antifa's stock and trade, and logic demands the violence was as much their fault as anyone else's.

 

[Ringo84]

Do you call what happened last August “peaceful”? Because if you do, you have a different definition than I do. Ask Heather Heyer how “peacefully” Kessler and his minions assembled.

Oh wait...you can’t. She’s dead thanks to one of his protestors.
Ringo

 

[Ringo84]

If it seems like this is a personal issue for me, it is.

All sarcasm aside, I wasn't going to bring this up, because I didn't want to bring attention to myself or to use her death as a trump card, but: I was acquainted with Heather Heyer. We weren't related, or dating, or bosom buddies or anything like that. I'd rather not go into great detail except to say that we had a connection, but I unfortunately didn't know her that well. Knowing now what I know, I wish I had gotten to know her better.

Why do I bring this up? Partially to explain why I've argued about this so passionately. But also to point out that this isn't about me, or even Heather herself, but Charlottesville. Having the KKK and then Nazis go into that town, march, and have one of their own residents die at the Nazi's hands, was traumatic for that city. They still haven't gotten over it; there has been a lot of anger and confusion over the local police and political reaction to Kessler's rally. It has looked at times like there has been a cover-up about what exactly went wrong.

So when I say, "Kessler shouldn't be allowed to come back", understand: it has less to do with Constitutional rights than it does concern about a city that has already been traumatized enough. Kessler is welcome to spout his horse manure elsewhere, but I think it would be better for Charlottesville if he didn't come back.

And in all honesty, it's probably better for Kessler too. Not that I particularly care much about his safety, but he should know (and probably does) that he is, to say the least, not a very popular figure in the Charlottesville area. It's likely that if he showed his face in town again - especially in the context of a smug, triumphal march on the anniversary of Heather's death - he would get his clock cleaned. Kessler barely got out of Charlottesville intact last time.

I'm not necessarily saying that I would support that, but I'll be dead honest: I wouldn't cry in my Coke over it either. I'm not sure that the idea of living with Nazis, and giving them an equal footing in the "marketplace of ideas" as more mainstream things, sits well with me. Circling back to the Constitutional rights issue, it's a matter of Kessler having the right to do something. But having the right doesn't mean that a thing is right, if you understand my meaning.

I probably haven't done a great job of arguing my case here. I know that. I don't say these things to garner sympathy, to shut down my opponents, or to call attention to myself because I know someone who has become famous. This isn't about me. It's about paying proper respect to Heather's memory, about doing the right thing for Charlottesville, and for not enabling people like Kessler any further.
Ringo

 

[Hank77]

The last time they were there, Antifa was there, a fact you appear to be adamant to ignore. Violence is Antifa's stock and trade, and logic demands the violence was as much their fault as anyone else's.

I don't agree that logic says anything such thing.
Was Heather Heyer's murderer a member of Antifa? Was she killed during a scuffle involving Antifa?
Was she a member of Antifa? Was she walking with a crowd of Antifa masked idiots?

 

[rambot]

If "I have a right to say what i say" is your only justification for talking, you are not worth pedestal of physical piblic space. Dont worry. You still got the internet! They love hate.
And apparently Christians are also cool to sit back and say "he has the right. Shrug. All sounds good to me"

 

[Shiloh Raven]

Jason Kessler files for Permit to Hold Unite the Right Anniversary Rally

That the Charlottesville council would even consider allowing this smug little squirt to hold another rally in town after what happened this past August is a disgrace. Surely there is a public safety concern that can put the kibosh on this.

Kessler's got a lot of gall to go back to Charlottesville.
Ringo

As much as I hate to think about it, Ringo, this man does have First Amendment rights, just as we do. And considering that this is America and this country does have a very long history of racism against minorities, not to mention the fact that it was also originally founded upon white supremacy and racism (as well as other factors such as land theft and broken treaties), it shouldn't be much of a shock that people like him and his white supremacy cronies still exist in this country. However, the presence of racism against minorities does seem to be even more prevalent and more out in the open since Trump took office last year though. As far as your point about public safety, I think you made a good point but I don't know if it would be sufficient enough to stop another white supremacy rally.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

If the people of Charlottesville or the City Council do not want another rally in their city, all they have to do is not approve the permit. It is really that simple. If they show up anyway, then arrest the whole bunch. If the city is truly concerned for peoples safety, they would arrest protesters that discharge firearms or pepper spray instead of standing idly by and watching.

 

[KCfromNC]

Antifa was there as well. Violence is their stock and trade.

They're not the ones who ran over people who didn't agree with their white supremacist message.

 

[KCfromNC]

Oh good! I'll bring my own heavily armed security force to protect my protestors. We may light up the night with nighttime flashlight rallies.

I thought torches and white sheets were more the theme for this particular march.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

They're not the ones who ran over people who didn't agree with their white supremacist message.

Or shooting guns…

Man arrested for firing gun at Charlottesville rally - CNN

 

[KCfromNC]

Or shooting guns…

Man arrested for firing gun at Charlottesville rally - CNN

Yep. If the people bringing up Antifa would at least admit that the Nazis were the violent ones in this particular protest I could understand the mentions. But it sure looks like an attempt to totally erase the fact that KKK and Nazi members killed someone at the event. I don't know why anyone would be so sympathetic to white supremacists to want to do that, but it makes it very hard to take their propaganda seriously.

 

[Rion]

I don't; not in this case.

Then you don't at all.

 

[Phil 1:21]

Then you don't at all.

Absolutely correct. It's times like this when we discover whether we really support constitutional rights or not.