Nazis Return to Charlottesville

[Ringo84]

How did that work out for Heather Heyer?

Let me stop you right there. I don't want to hear your ignorant badmouthing of Heyer. You want to criticize antifa, go for it, but take your slander elsewhere. I have no use for it in my thread.

But they do assault people to stop them from exercising their first amendment rights...

In my lifetime, I can only think of one white supremacist rally where multiple people were assaulted and someone murdered...Antifa's tactics are disgusting.

I can too, and it was perpetuated by a white supremacist. Learn the facts or just keep your mouth shut.
Ringo

 

[ViaCrucis]

Well, for one thing we can avoid falling into the current moral panic that is presently running wild in our country.

"Pay no mind to the swastika-bearing mob goose stomping down your street, everything is fine."

Secondly, we can oppose the neo-nazis while not siding with the violent anarcho-communists

How many people here or that you know of are siding with those anti-nazis using violence against nazis? Because I see a pretty consistent position of "violence is bad" but with a refusal to morally equivocate. Because morally equivocating here is morally bankrupt.

Third, rather than going around and punching people we disagree with, we can argue with them and if that doesn't work, mock them. It may sound odd, but by making them the punchline to a joke, you rob them of a lot of power.

Ah, sort of like what I and others around here have been doing, and for which there has been a consistent push back?

We say "Nazis are bad" to which we are then told, "Yeah! But anti-Nazis are equally as bad! Why aren't you condemning the violence of anti-Nazis" And when we do condemn it, "But but but".

How about we stop playing the part of Nazi apologists and, unequivocally, condemn Nazism in every form; how about we don't make defenses for Nazis, and those who march alongside Nazis? How about we don't call them "very fine people"?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Ana the Ist]

Let me stop you right there. I don't want to hear your ignorant badmouthing of Heyer. You want to criticize antifa, go for it, but take your slander elsewhere. I have no use for it in my thread.

What slander? It's a serious question.

Please skip the insults next time too.

I can too, and it was perpetuated by a white supremacist. Learn the facts or just keep your mouth shut.
Ringo

Who had every right to be there. It's funny to see you talk about "protection" when I can't recall so many people being injured or any being killed at a rally Antifa didn't show at. They're real heroes lol.

 

[Rion]

"Pay no mind to the swastika-bearing mob goose stomping down your street, everything is fine."

And if we were discussing things in the 80's, you'd accuse me of supporting satantic ritual abuse too.

How many people here or that you know of are siding with those anti-nazis using violence against nazis? Because I see a pretty consistent position of "violence is bad" but with a refusal to morally equivocate. Because morally equivocating here is morally bankrupt.

Several, including the OP. Also, since when are Communists not as morally repugnant as Nazis?

Ah, sort of like what I and others around here have been doing, and for which there has been a consistent push back?

We say "Nazis are bad" to which we are then told, "Yeah! But anti-Nazis are equally as bad! Why aren't you condemning the violence of anti-Nazis" And when we do condemn it, "But but but".

How about we stop playing the part of Nazi apologists and, unequivocally, condemn Nazism in every form; how about we don't make defenses for Nazis, and those who march alongside Nazis? How about we don't call them "very fine people"?

What color is the sky in your world? Unlike you or the OP, I don't apologize for mass-murdering fiends. I will argue for their right to free speech because that is the law here. I can look over to Europe and see what happens when you let the government control what is or isn't hate-speech, and it isn't good. I think both Nazis and Commies are scum, but that doesn't give me a right to punch them and silence them.

 

[Ringo84]

What slander? It's a serious question.

Please skip the insults next time too.

I don't mean to insult you, but please just skip the victim blaming disguised as 'just asking questions'. I'd rather not hear it.

Who had every right to be there. It's funny to see you talk about "protection" when I can't recall so many people being injured or any being killed at a rally Antifa didn't show at. They're real heroes lol.

The only people I remember being injured or killed in Charlottesville were at the hands of a Nazi, so yur memory must be faulty.
Ringo

 

[Ana the Ist]

I don't mean to insult you, but please just skip the victim blaming disguised as 'just asking questions'. I'd rather not hear it.

I didn't blame anyone for anything...nice try though.

The only people I remember being injured or killed in Charlottesville were at the hands of a Nazi, so yur memory must be faulty.
Ringo

I don't pretend to have been there...but you don't have to be a genius to figure this out.

Only counter protesters got injured? Who was doing all that protection you were going on about? What do you think would've happened should no counter protesters have shown up?

What was achieved? Hint, you only need to look as far as your headline to figure that one out...

 

[Ringo84]

I didn't blame anyone for anything...nice try though.

All right. Just see that you don't.

Only counter protesters got injured? Who was doing all that protection you were going on about? What do you think would've happened should no counter protesters have shown up?

What was achieved? Hint, you only need to look as far as your headline to figure that one out...

Would there have been a need for protection had Nazis not been there? Keep in mind that these people were staring down Congregation Beth Israel and threatening First United Methodist. The violence didn't come from antifa.
Ringo

 

[Ana the Ist]

All right. Just see that you don't.



Would there have been a need for protection had Nazis not been there?

I can't say there was a "need for protection" with the nazis there...as I said earlier in the thread, it may be embarrassing to a community when these "people" show up, but it's never really dangerous. I cannot count how many times I've seen a news report of a rally, or protest, or march by white supremacists (in my entire life) but it's a lot, and Charlottesville is the only one I can recall ending in bloodshed.

I don't know if police were on scene before any violence started (though I read reports that they were) and I would suggest that they are all the protection that is needed.

Keep in mind that these people were staring down Congregation Beth Israel and threatening First United Methodist. The violence didn't come from antifa.
Ringo

Are staring people down and "threats"=violence in your mind? If that's the case I've got some "protests" to show you...

 

[Ringo84]

I can't say there was a "need for protection" with the nazis there...as I said earlier in the thread, it may be embarrassing to a community when these "people" show up, but it's never really dangerous. I cannot count how many times I've seen a news report of a rally, or protest, or march by white supremacists (in my entire life) but it's a lot, and Charlottesville is the only one I can recall ending in bloodshed.

I don't know if police were on scene before any violence started (though I read reports that they were) and I would suggest that they are all the protection that is needed.



Are staring people down and "threats"=violence in your mind? If that's the case I've got some "protests" to show you...

It's not that they were just staring it down. They were the same people shouting "Jews will not replace us" and hanging around Beth Israel when there were people in there for some kind of service. The people inside the synagogue feared for their lives.

Bottom line: there never would have been violence without the Nazi wannabes and their little tiki torches. Period.
Ringo

 

[Ringo84]

There's also this:

White Supremacists Joked About Using Cars to Run Over Opponents Before Charlottesville — ProPublica

But please...tell me again how the white supremacists were all a bunch of innocent little lambs and the mean antifa caused the violence.
Ringo

 

[Ana the Ist]

It's not that they were just staring it down. They were the same people shouting "Jews will not replace us" and hanging around Beth Israel when there were people in there for some kind of service. The people inside the synagogue feared for their lives.

Bottom line: there never would have been violence without the Nazi wannabes and their little tiki torches. Period.
Ringo

So...shouting+staring down=violence?

Somehow I'd be willing to bet that in Dallas when 5 police were murder by a black BLM supporter with a rifle, your threshold for violence and who is to blame were a lot higher.

 

[Ana the Ist]

There's also this:

White Supremacists Joked About Using Cars to Run Over Opponents Before Charlottesville — ProPublica

But please...tell me again how the white supremacists were all a bunch of innocent little lambs and the mean antifa caused the violence.
Ringo

Antifa "black bloc" protesters show up head to toe in black with masks so they cannot be identified for arrest...if the white supremacists showed up in masks, I didn't see it.

Who was looking to break the law that day do you suppose?

 

[Ringo84]

Antifa "black bloc" protesters show up head to toe in black with masks so they cannot be identified for arrest...if the white supremacists showed up in masks, I didn't see it.

Who was looking to break the law that day do you suppose?

My gosh...they wore masks! Obviously they were violent!

Who exactly are you trying to defend here - Nazis? People who swarmed into Charlottesville with their tiki torches and their anti-Semitism?

So...shouting+staring down=violence?

I didn't say it was. But since you weren't there, what makes you think you're an authority on being Jewish and stuck in a synagogue with Nazis paying close attention to the building you're occupying?

What do you know about anything involving Charlottesville?
Ringo

 

[Yonny Costopoulis]

How about we stop playing the part of Nazi apologists and, unequivocally, condemn Nazism in every form; how about we don't make defenses for Nazis, and those who march alongside Nazis? How about we don't call them "very fine people"?

-CryptoLutheran

The good old days. Makes people realize what a blessing Obama was to USA and how quickly things can change.

 

[Yonny Costopoulis]

I can't say there was a "need for protection" with the nazis there...as I said earlier in the thread, it may be embarrassing to a community when these "people" show up, but it's never really dangerous. I cannot count how many times I've seen a news report of a rally, or protest, or march by white supremacists (in my entire life) but it's a lot, and Charlottesville is the only one I can recall ending in bloodshed.

Many marches by White Supremacists and Nazis used to end like this:

"It's never really dangerous" unless you are black. So my conclusion is you are not black. Is this correct?

 

[Ringo84]

Exactly. The reason the one in Charlottesville didn't boils down to two things:

1. The "ubermensch" who attended the rally were cowards who talk big only when they're in front of a computer screen online
2. Antifa
Ringo

 

[ViaCrucis]

And if we were discussing things in the 80's, you'd accuse me of supporting satantic ritual abuse too.

So, slight difference here. The Satanic Panic of the 1980's had no basis in fact--there weren't Satanists and witch covens making ritual sacrifices all over America; on the other hand there are Nazis.

The difference between fact and fiction is an important one.

Several, including the OP. Also, since when are Communists not as morally repugnant as Nazis?

Since always. Perhaps what you mean to talk about is Stalinism or Maoism. Fascist and totalitarian regimes which were Communist in name only. There is valid criticism to be had on Marxist economic and social doctrine, perhaps one valid criticism is that it fails to grasp how deplorable human nature can be and that in the absence of power, something will naturally fill that vacuum; and thus a purely non-hierarchal society is ultimately impossible because of the inherent dangers of human nature--there will always be people who want to be at the top and rule over others on the bottom. Which is precisely the story of the October Revolution and the reign of Joseph Stalin who ruled as bloodthirsty and murderous dictator and tyrant over the Russian people.

So, no, Communists are not as morally repugnant as Nazis. Stalinists? Absolutely. Maoists? Sure thing.

Further problem? Pretending that being anti-Nazi means being a Communist. Turns out it's entirely possible to be anti-Nazi without being a Communist or an anarchist.

What color is the sky in your world? Unlike you or the OP, I don't apologize for mass-murdering fiends. I will argue for their right to free speech because that is the law here. I can look over to Europe and see what happens when you let the government control what is or isn't hate-speech, and it isn't good. I think both Nazis and Commies are scum, but that doesn't give me a right to punch them and silence them.

Slander and straw.

Nope, never apologized or defended mass-murderers. And I seem to recall saying pretty explicitly that violence isn't okay, and thus haven't defended using violence to silence Nazis--in fact, I think I've said the opposite.

Perhaps you'd like to come up with a better argument.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Ana the Ist]

My gosh...they wore masks! Obviously they were violent!

Who exactly are you trying to defend here - Nazis? People who swarmed into Charlottesville with their tiki torches and their anti-Semitism?

I would defend their 1st amendment rights...yes. Freedom of speech, assembly, and so on weren't created for "popular" speech or groups...they were created for unpopular ones.

I didn't say it was. But since you weren't there, what makes you think you're an authority on being Jewish and stuck in a synagogue with Nazis paying close attention to the building you're occupying?

What do you know about anything involving Charlottesville?
Ringo

Same as you I imagine...what I've read.

You do realize there were no nazis at Berkeley when Antifa destroyed windows and burned cars just to prevent one man from speaking? Why would you defend them?

Or are you simply going to wait until they go after someone you agree with to admit that they're a hateful, violent group bent on keeping people from exercising their rights?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Many marches by White Supremacists and Nazis used to end like this:

"It's never really dangerous" unless you are black. So my conclusion is you are not black. Is this correct?

No I'm not black...but I'm also not living in the 30s either.

You're Greek, right? You'll forgive me if I don't know why you seem to consistently offer your opinion of condemnation of the United States. Greece is considered the most corrupt government in the EU. They regularly trample human rights like freedom of speech and as a result...you've got anarchists attacking embassies and airlines.

The struggles the U.S. has regarding race are relatively minor compared to how rapidly Greece is tearing itself apart.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Exactly. The reason the one in Charlottesville didn't boils down to two things:

1. The "ubermensch" who attended the rally were cowards who talk big only when they're in front of a computer screen online
2. Antifa
Ringo

If #1 is true...why would you need (or want for that matter) #2?