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Masks Are Essentially Worthless

Discussion in 'Current News & Events (Articles Required)' started by Redwingfan9, Jul 30, 2020.

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  1. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    I was a resp. Therapist for many years I switched organs and went into dialysis later. While I was administering breathing treatments I always had people who absolutely believed that these breathing treatments were harmful to them and they insisted they could not breath with them. They would be on monitors, reading their O2 Sats that showed their O2 concentrations would actually elevate during the treatment---they refused to believe it. Some would just plain refuse to take the treatments.
    I've been wearing a mask now for 4 hours, I have people over and they are wearing masks. My O2 sats were 97% before putting on my mask. After 1 hour they were still at 97%---after 2 hours, they were still at 97% After 4 hrs they were still at 97%. In over 30 years of being in the medical field, I've had to wear masks, sometimes for 10 hours a day, every day. No problems. Why are people insisting they are harmful?---'Cause they believe some idiot who told them so and others who have no actual experience with them just making stupid statements---even doctors do that. Having had to deal with drs. for all those years, I also came in contact with those who would talk without any actual knowledge. Some of them would say stuff that actually made us cringe---how stupid can you get.
    I have nearly come to blows with drs! I refuse to be shouted down, intimidated, manipulated, much less lied to just because someone has Md after their name. When something is not right, it is not right no matter who says it. To say that masks are totally ineffective is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. And when it comes to disease---I'll take a 1% effective over 0 any day. 30 years of seeing people die in agony has taught me a few things. I wear a mask, and those who come to my home wear one. And for one thing---I simply do not see Jesus standing there screaming about His right to not wear a mask to help His fellow man. Jesus was all about others, never about self. I firmly believe He would wear one, and encourage others to wear them---even if He did not believe they did help. If nothing else to be courteous to others, and to follow the law of the land.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2020
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  2. Yekcidmij

    Yekcidmij Polymath

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  3. Richard T

    Richard T Well-Known Member

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    Anyone can be subjective and cherry pick a few articles that support their position. Following, I have summarized the first articles on this list that claim to suggest masks are "essentially worthless." To say masks are worthless one would have to specify to whom? The wearer only, or the people around the wearer? One would also have to specify the conditions where the mask may or not be effective. Most already agree that masks are not needed outdoors. In all the articles I reviewed from the start of this list, none would conclude that masks are worthless. Here is why.

    The British Journal of Medicine says cloth masks are 97% useless. A cluster randomised trial of cloth masks compared with medical masks in healthcare workers
    The Journal reports the authors findings, it does not take sides. This article is about cloth masks versus medical masks. It does not address your hypothesis that masks are worthless. "It is also unknown whether the rates of infection observed in the cloth mask arm are the same or higher than in HCWs (Health Care Workers) who do not wear a mask, as almost all participants in the control arm used a mask."

    A study of the more serious 1918 flu pandemic showed masks useless. The American Journal of Public Health (AJPH) from the American Public Health Association (APHA) publications

    Wrong again, Here we have an 100 year old article on gauze masks which were tested for bacteria. I do not know anyone wearing gauze masks, though they would be of some help. The authors concluded "Gauze masks exercise a certain amount of restraining influence on the number of bacteria-laden droplets possible of inhalation. 2.This influence, is modified by the number of layers and fineness of mesh of the gauze. 3. When a sufficient degree of density in the mask is used to exercise a useful filtering influence, breathing is difficult and leakage takes place around the edge- of the mask

    Another study shows cloth masks useless compared to surgical masks. A cluster randomised trial of cloth masks compared with medical masks in healthcare workers
    Same link as the first study

    Other studies show cloth masks useless compared to surgical masks, even the latter are questionable. They include:
    https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/bio/23/2/23_61/_pdf/-char/en
    Here the study pushed 3 different aerosols through 3 types of masks. Thus, a test to see how much the wearer was protected. They found "These findings suggest that the result of filter efficiency tests using the phi-X174 phage could be overestimated, compared with the filter efficiency against real pathogens such as the influenza virus." They do not conclude the masks are worthless to the wearer, only that the filter efficiency is overestimated. This article suggests 3 layer masks are more effective.

    Error - Cookies Turned Off

    Here is a test of some 2,000 hospital workers, testing N95, medical and no masks.
    "The rates of all outcomes were higher in the convenience no-mask group than in the masks groups. By adjusted intention-to-treat analysis, N95 respirators but not medical masks had significantly lower rates of infection compared to no masks."
    So the difference was not significant between medical masks versus no masks. This does not mean masks are worthless, just that this study could not statistically determine a difference. The authors admit too that the non-mask wearing sample was not random, as only certain hospitals did not use masks. The non-masking sample was less than 500 people. The setting was not public in any case. Generalization is very limited.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2493952/pdf/annrcse01509-0009.pdf
    This 1980s, article is about wound infections in a masked versus non-masked situation. It found "Nonmasks were worn in one operating theatre for 6 months.There was no increase in the incidence of wound infection." Nothing about virus protection, so it seems pretty irrelevant. Rates of wound infections were around 1 to 2 percent by the way so they likely are explained by other reasons than mask wearing.

    I stopped here because the studies were a road to nowhere, just as I suspected. The studies do not even address the question of whether cloth masks offer any protection. Instead the concentrate on various criteria in hospital settings and even then show no real evidence that masks are worthless. True science requires one to be objective. Thus, to study this issue, one would need a full literature review, and the studies would have to address the research question, with as much evidecne as could be gathered on both sides. Weight also should be given to studies that address the research question directly, not other questions like bacterial infection rates. There are studies that are supportive of mask wearing out there. They too have limitations. Soon there should be data on infection rates of different states calculated for mandatory mask wearing versus not-mandatory. These and other studies will help settle the issue, but it is common sense to wear a mask, not only for limited self-protection, but to stop the spread to others. We need to be aware that it takes more than a small amount of the virus to begin to reproduce in you. Thus, in some cases stopping the virus partially may be enough to keep one from being infected.

    Already we do know that states with little mitigation, Georgia, Florida and the like, also have the highest COVID rates. Likely no masks are part of the reason.
     
  4. NotreDame

    NotreDame Domer Supporter

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    Not the studies you linked to in your opening post. Those studies did not examine the use of the mask in the same context as they are being used to reduce the spread of COVID.

    But tell me more about your misguided use of the study regarding gauze masks for a date and time, like today, where gauze masks are not being used! Make me laugh some more about the "study after study" you have fantastically not cited to in your posts.
     
  5. LoricaLady

    LoricaLady YHWH's Supporter

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    Yeal, I haven't seen anyone giving evidence that the studies you listed were invalid in any way. Gee, we've got a situation where medical professionals disagree all over the place on everything regarding this virus scare. That in itself is telling to me, personally.
     
  6. paul1149

    paul1149 that your faith might rest in the power of God Supporter

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    I'll take it, over the destruction of a nation.
     
  7. paul1149

    paul1149 that your faith might rest in the power of God Supporter

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    Just a word of caution. Brilliant, but not all he purports to be.
     
  8. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    I would also caution against masks with the air vents......as they allow unfiltered air to pass through them (ending the notion of the public being protected from the mask wearer) and I've found that the flimsy vent flaps do not stay closed on their own....they only close fully with strong inhalations.....unfiltered air enters(through the vent) during normal breathing and at the start of strong inhalations.

    Yes there is a good explanation for why you are able to breath so much better in them.....it is like you aren't wearing anything at all....
     
  9. grandvizier1006

    grandvizier1006 Still a human by God's grace Supporter

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    I used to think what the OP does, because initially the CDC and the WHO insisted that masks don't work and the only people who needed them were those who were already sick and their caregivers. But now they've realized how easily this virus spreads. The point of the masks is to reduce the likelihood of getting covid. It's not 100% effective, but it does significantly reduce the risk of infection. Surely you can understand that it is better to have a 50% chance of getting this than 100% of getting it?
     
  10. Isilwen

    Isilwen Well-Known Member

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    Nice cherry pick of what I posted!

    The only reason why shutting down this country, if that is what you are talking about, would cause its destruction is because of one simple word, greed!

    The majority of this country worships the almighty dollar, why let something like death stop them from worshipping it.
     
  11. NotreDame

    NotreDame Domer Supporter

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    It is impossible to "ignore" that which does not exist in your posts, those "studies" you reference but are conspicuously absent from your posts. The ones you did cite to not make the point you are making, as they studied something different than the use of masks today in relation to COVID. And it should be forgettable that you cited to a 1918 study of gauze masks.
     
  12. grandvizier1006

    grandvizier1006 Still a human by God's grace Supporter

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    I don't think this strategy of getting my fellow conservatives to wear masks is going to work. :(
     
  13. LoricaLady

    LoricaLady YHWH's Supporter

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    Let's look at the collateral damage of the CoVid scare. Racial riots by people cooped up in lockdowns. More suicides. More domestic abuse and child abuse. Inferior education by online schooling. Businesses folding. People out of work in record numbers. The stock market wobbling all over the place. The food chain is being disrupted with millions of animals being slaughtered - but not for food - millions of gallons of milk being dumped, and so on.

    When the unemployment checks run out and people can't find work I believe there will be way more looting. Count on it. And it won't be just with businesses. I believe there will be more racial riots. All over.

    When at least one more lockdown comes, as seems likely, won't there be even more economic devastation?

    Yes, the nation is in extreme danger of being destroyed. But my opinion is that it will be because of irrational fear and a sheep like following of people who take away their constitutional rights.

    I believe you will see that the vaccine will not stop anything. People will get more and more sick from it and from the masks, social isolation, fear, stress, lack of enough oxygen, sunshine, and fresh air. I believe you will see your freedoms erode while disease increases, and that food will become more and more scarce.

    You don't believe me now, almost any of you. We can wait and and see. And pray.

    Blessings and bye.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2020
  14. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for sharing your ideas of protection that is greater than wearing masks.. I find no fault in them.
     
  15. Isilwen

    Isilwen Well-Known Member

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    You people should really rethink this. Many of you will perish, but I guess that's just Darwinism at work! So, go for it!
     
  16. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    This is only because you do not read your own posts. You gave evidence to prove that the OP statements/studies were invalid. Yet you show support because you both have the same underlying argument:

     
  17. Redwingfan9

    Redwingfan9 Well-Known Member

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    Bingo. No one wants to confront the elephant in the room. There is not medical consensus on masks, despite what the media and government are peddling. People can't handle knowing that the mask isn't going to save them from Coronavirus.
     
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  18. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    You have a desire to promote your own beliefs as Truth, and opposing beliefs as false.....the same desire as the OPer has, and some that support him. You even believe that it is ok for you to have this desire, but wrong for the OPer to have it.

    I do not have this trait. I respect the beliefs and opinions of all, rather I agree with them or not.

    Before your words against the OP can be heard or believed above the OPers words, you must first show that you are not the same.
     
  19. Isilwen

    Isilwen Well-Known Member

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    Then don't believe me. Others will because they will do the research and see that what I am saying is true.

    I can only lead a horse to water...
     
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  20. Redwingfan9

    Redwingfan9 Well-Known Member

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    Why should 330 million people be forced by the barrel of a government gun to wear a mask that on its best day offers 3% protection? Let's look at this more broadly. Each year 30-100k Americans die of flu. Should we wear masks on the hope that they might stop 3% of flu cases? According to the CDC's own estimates, Coronavirus has a 99.4-99.85% survival rate. Should all of us be inconvenienced and have our good health put in jeopardy on the outside hope that maybe a couple thousand won't die? That strikes me as completely insane. Especially in light of the dire negative consequences that the governments actions have had on society, from enforced social distancing to economic shutdowns and school closures. The cure is worse than the virus.
     
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