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Masks Are Essentially Worthless

Discussion in 'Current News & Events (Articles Required)' started by Redwingfan9, Jul 30, 2020.

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  1. LoricaLady

    LoricaLady YHWH's Supporter

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    The harm is that while, theoretically, there is a 3% effectiveness... First, not everyone even agrees with that figure. 2nd, the masks can be HARMFUL to the health, as many doctors say, including the surgeon Dr. Russell Blaylock listed above.

    You are so sure masks are going to save lives. Others, including doctors say no to that.

    You are entitled to your opinion. To me it just makes common sense, though, that rebreathing your air, and germs, and decreasing your oxygen while increasing your carbon dioxide is going to be unhealthy. Hypoxia is nothing to take lightly.

    That's it. I'm outta here.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2020
  2. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    You are saying the same thing as the government. I believe they are only suggesting masks in enclosed area and places where you cannot socially distance. I've yet to hear everyone say for the unsick to wear masks 24/7, in your homes, or outside when there is no one around you...
     
  3. Isilwen

    Isilwen Well-Known Member

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    You are still spreading untruth!

    I posted what the CDC has said as recently as July 14th. Your information is wrong!
     
  4. fewme

    fewme Member

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    There's a random guy, over the net saying things that do not agree with the vast majority of authorities everywhere.

    And he could be saying that just to make fun out of me.

    Even at the risk of the life of my father, mother and all whom I hold dear.

    Have I made myself abundantly clear?
     
  5. paul1149

    paul1149 that your faith might rest in the power of God Supporter

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    Which brings up a greater issue. IMO the best way to deal with this disease is to make special accommodations for the vulnerable, to fortify the medical industry's response capability, and to let the disease run its course in the general population, which has high natural immunity to it. Then herd immunity will be built up quickly, and everyone will be the beneficiaries. Some epidemiologists have concluded are that only ~23% of the population has to attain Covid immunity in order to achieve herd immunity.

    By making a super big deal of this, we have only empowered it. It feels like a Kafkaesque world when I go out, because 85% of it is pure nonsense. But then Democrats have noticed that Trump's popularity has been inversely proportional to the impact of Covid. Funny how well that comports with the totalitarian, destructive, and nonsensical decrees of many Democratic governors.
     
  6. paul1149

    paul1149 that your faith might rest in the power of God Supporter

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    No I am emphatically not.
     
  7. LoricaLady

    LoricaLady YHWH's Supporter

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    Oh, I did think of one last thing to say, a caution for those who wear masks. If it has chemicals in it, as with plastic and other synthetics, you are sucking those right into your lungs. I see lots of people out there wearing such masks.
     
  8. LoricaLady

    LoricaLady YHWH's Supporter

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    Dr. Pam Popper quotes the CDC data verbatim from her channel as of today. Anyone is free to go to the CDC website and see if she is reporting accurately or not. I can see it for myself. I know nothing about you, though. Wear a mask if you like. Let what Bill Gates' calls "the final solution" vaccine be pumped into your arm if you like. Up to you.
     
  9. Isilwen

    Isilwen Well-Known Member

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    There are flaws in that thinking though.

    Natural infection
    Herd immunity can also be reached when a sufficient number of people in the population have recovered from a disease and have developed antibodies against future infection. For example, those who survived the 1918 flu (influenza) pandemic were later immune to infection with the H1N1 flu, a subtype of influenza A. During the 2009-10 flu season, H1N1 caused the respiratory infection in humans that was commonly referred to as swine flu.

    However, there are some major problems with relying on community infection to create herd immunity to the virus that causes COVID-19. First, it isn't yet clear if infection with the COVID-19 virus makes a person immune to future infection.

    Research suggests that after infection with some coronaviruses, reinfection with the same virus — though usually mild and only happening in a fraction of people — is possible after a period of months or years. Further research is needed to determine the protective effect of antibodies to the virus in those who have been infected.

    Even if infection with the COVID-19 virus creates long-lasting immunity, a large number of people would have to become infected to reach the herd immunity threshold. Experts estimate that in the U.S., 70% of the population — more than 200 million people — would have to recover from COVID-19 to halt the epidemic. If many people become sick with COVID-19 at once, the health care system could quickly become overwhelmed. This amount of infection could also lead to serious complications and millions of deaths, especially among older people and those who have chronic conditions.

    https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases...th/herd-immunity-and-coronavirus/art-20486808

    When will we achieve herd immunity against this coronavirus?

    When we have a vaccine for COVID-19. Because we can’t just rely on natural immunity, or the kind that develops after you’ve been infected and recovered.

    Right now, one study from Spain estimates that only about 3% of that country’s population has been infected. That figure is probably the same here in the United States. So, we’re still in the single digits, and it’s already putting a significant strain on medical systems worldwide. We probably need around 70% of the population to have developed antibodies in order to halt community transmission of COVID-19.

    What happens when we do reach herd immunity for COVID-19?

    That depends. There have been some indications that this may be like the flu, and that immunity may not last longer than four or five months. So, immunity may wane over time, and people would need to be revaccinated. But nobody really knows yet.

    The bottom line is just because you’re immune today doesn’t mean you’ll still be immune 3 or 6 months from now.

    COVID-19 herd immunity: 7 questions, answered

    There is also virus mutation that can happen every time a person is infected.
     
  10. Gregorikos

    Gregorikos Ordinary Mystic

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    I don't know who Dr. Pam is, but the CDC website as of 1:00pm EST today says:


    • The cloth face cover is meant to protect other people in case you are infected.
    • Everyone should wear a cloth face cover in public settings and when around people who don’t live in your household, especially when other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain.
     
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  11. LoricaLady

    LoricaLady YHWH's Supporter

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    There is a good pollitician/bad politican theme out there at every level. Just as there is a good media/bad media being played. It's all theater.

    Have you seen vids like Dr. Buttar Blast Bill Gates, vids by Dr. Shiva and others re the Corona Virus? Might be interesting. I keep saying I gotta run, but this time I really gotta go as these exchanges go on and on and I feel guilty for neglecting other things I need to do.

    Blessings!
     
  12. Isilwen

    Isilwen Well-Known Member

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    I linked to the CDC website, don't take my word for it.

    As I told you before, I will not just go for the vaccination. And using him saying "the final solution" and linking it to an atrocity, is disingenuous and is the reason why much of what you posted is bunk!

    After doing some research on Dr. Pam Popper, yeah, no, she's another anti-vaccer quack!
     
  13. Isilwen

    Isilwen Well-Known Member

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    Thank you!

    They dismiss the truth even when it's put directly in front of their face!
     
  14. LoricaLady

    LoricaLady YHWH's Supporter

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    P.S. An alert. On You Tube I have noticed that if anyone mentions Dr. Buttar some present this narrative about him that he is not a real doctor but only an osteopath, and further that he has been involved in malpractice. I searched but saw no substantive evidence at all for malpractice. Further, of course an osteopath is a doctor and in addition Dr. Buttar held a prominent position in the army as a surgeon.
     
  15. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    I did not say that it was 3% effective....I quoted it from the very sources that you and the OPer implored us to read... If you would like us to now dismiss one point of what they made.... wouldnt that be grounds to dismiss, or give way to discrediting all the points presented in the articles?

    Or should we only consider the points in the articles that most closely align to your points, and dismiss those that do not? Truth usually does not present itself in this fashion.

    If I wanted to, I could find 20 articles that discredit the claim that Masks are harmful.....and tell you to ignore anything else in the same articles that may disagree with that point. But, like I've stated, truth doesnt present itself this way.

    The Truth is, I do not know whether or not mask help or harm, no matter how many articles I read.....therefore, I cannot truthfully give advice for or against them.

    And let us not ignore the many Doctors who say that masks can save lives as well.

    It is important that those who speak to the crowd, remain objective.....and unbiased by personal beliefs.

    And this has been discredited by doctors.....If you search for these discredations as eagerly as you search for discredations of beliefs not aligned to your own....you would find them.

    An honest teacher searches all sides, and not only positives for their own views, and negatives for opposing views.

    Thanks for the acknowledgment. However, I have not given my opinion.... but since you asked....

    I believe Christ saves and heals....Not masks or vaccines or good eating etc....

    However, for the sake of brothers, I would wear 2 or 3 masks for their conscience sake. How can I have the love of God in me, and know that another has faith in the mask and presume to go around them without it?

    Why would the love of God compel me to sap all the hope and faith (in mask)out of the heart of a brother, leaving them empty and void, with nothing to refill that empty space.....hopeless

    Would I have joy in removing the hope from another? Nay I would have none.

    Therefore I say, wear your mask if you believe it will protect you. And I will wear mine too if I am around you. Whenever you are ready to discuss greater protection than the mask, I will be ready willing and able to discuss those options as well.....
     
  16. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

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    masks only work when most of the population is wearing them. if a few of the many are only wearing them it's not going to do much, not for the few, not for the many. I'm not sure why the US has such an aversion to wearing masks and must politicize the issue. if numbers tell us anything this anti-mask wearing sentiment culture of the US is not fairing so well where the rest of the world seems to have gotten the memo and is recovering (while still wearing masks) the US is constantly breaking its own record while it debates masks. Time to look around and not just in a bubble, the US is failing on this issue and badly, time to look to other countries' approaches because whatever this thing the US is doing, it's not working.

    Trump made a comment to start looking at opening up the border to Canada... well Canada gave that idea a hard pass.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. NotreDame

    NotreDame Domer Supporter

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    Where's the evidence? There is not any evidence in your post.

    First, masks are advocated because wearing a mask reduces the transmission of COVID by trapping the respiratory droplets and aerosol of the person wearing the mask. Of course, the mask may not trap every respiratory droplet or all aerosol but the mask, certain masks, do trap a substantial amount of respiratory droplets and aerosols. The aforementioned reduction in respiratory droplets and aerosols leads to a significant decrease in the risk of the virus spreading from the person wearing the mask to another person or people. To understand this qualitative difference in risk, and appreciate it, a comparison to the amount of respiratory droplets and aerosols released without a mask in relation to the use of a mask, and certain kinds of masks, illuminates the efficacy of masks and certain masks.
    https://www.understandinganimalrese...educe-covid-19-transmission-between-hamsters/
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/23/health/covid-mask-layers-wellness/index.html
    https://www.wthr.com/article/news/i...d-19/531-96479b50-7041-4f95-a88c-e33e2355fa37
    https://www.wflx.com/2020/07/13/n-cloth-masks-are-most-effective-test-finds/
    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/petri-dishes-coughed-on-mask/

    As a result, the person/people wearing a mask reduces the risk of spreading any infected respiratory droplets or aerosols from themselves to another person. The use of the mask is not to keep viral particles out from an infected person but rather to reduce the escape of viral particles from the person wearing the mask. Consequently, the risk of the person wearing a mask and infecting someone else is considerably, palpably reduced. With this in mind, let's look at your links.

    1. British Journal of Medicine-the study pertains to the use of cloth masks to protect the person wearing the mask from infection by someone else. The use of cloth masks today is done to protect other people from the person wearing the mask. This study looks at a factual scenario which is not applicable to the use of cloth masks today for COVID.

    2. American Journal of Public Health (1918 pandemic and mask use). The study looked at the use of gauze masks! I am not aware of anyone running around with gauze masks to reduce the spread of COVID.

    3. Jstage link-Looking at the diagram they used for their experiment, and the study itself, once again this is a study focusing upon the efficacy of the mask to protect the person wearing the mask from infection by someone who is infected.

    4. The online library/wiley study has the same flaw as 1 and 3.

    5. The abstract for journal of hospital infection says it all. "Following the commissioning of a new suite of operating rooms air movement studies showed a flow of air away from the operating table towards the periphery of the room. Oral microbial flora dispersed by unmasked male and female volunteers standing one metre from the table failed to contaminate exposed settle plates placed on the table. The wearing of face masks by non-scrubbed staff working in an operating room with forced ventilation seems to be unnecessary." The very language of the abstract creates a suggestion that weakens your argument regarding masks!

    I am not going to waste my time disposing of the rest of your links. I want to say, however, I am not commenting upon the quality of the studies. Rather, each study examined the mask as a form of protection for the person wearing the masks, which is inapplicable to and does not address the use of masks to reduce the risk of COVID by limiting the respiratory droplets/aerosols emitted by the person wearing the mask as opposed to providing protection to the person wearing the mask. The problem is not necessarily the studies but your poor use of them.

    Moving on to your links regarding oxygen and masks.

    1. PubMed: "Wearing a surgical mask modifies significantly and clinically dyspnea without influencing walked distance." Dyspnea-shortness of breath. So what? Strenuous workouts also produce dyspnea. This link is informational but not an indictment against the use of masks.

    2. Generally, the links discussing possible infection because the mask is contaminated is not an indictment against the use of masks. Rather, the studies highlight what experts have been saying all along, the masks must be used appropriately, discarded appropriately, and proper hand washing is needed after discarding the mask.

    3. British study of surgical facemask use for surgery, stated, "Examination of the literature revealed much of the published work on the matter to be quite dated and often studies had poorly elucidated methodologies. As a result, we recommend caution in extrapolating their findings to contemporary surgical practice. However, overall there is a lack of substantial evidence to support claims that facemasks protect either patient or surgeon from infectious contamination. More rigorous contemporary research is needed to make a definitive comment on the effectiveness of surgical facemasks."
    In other words, the study you are citing is explicitly telling you that the efficacy of a surgical mask for use in a surgery setting to protect surgeon or patient from contamination is lacking and needs to be properly researched.

    4. "Finally, one New England Journal of Medicine editorial acknowledged the uselessness of masks but demanded universal masking nonetheless less for its placebo effect." This is absolutely not what this journal said. The journal made several pertinent remarks to the use of masks and COVID. One of those remarks being, "We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection. Public health authorities define a significant exposure to Covid-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic Covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 30 minutes). The chance of catching Covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal. In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic."

    The italicized commentary is not an assertion masks are useless. Rather, what was stated was the risk of contracting COVID "from a passing interaction in a public space" is minimal, and as a result, the risk being so low already, the use of a mask is pointless in such a scenario. The comment does not speak upon the efficacy of masks in general or in other contexts!

    In addition, the journal is merely venturing its own opinion! After all, this is a part of the journal called "Perspective," where these doctors give their perception without much if any supporting data. The doctor's in the link are expressing their personal beliefs with no supporting evidence except to note the prevalence of asymptomatic and pre-symptom COVID patients/people and how likely they transmit the virus. Otherwise, this link is just a few doctors telling us what they think personally.

    The "utter tosh" has been your improper use of the evidence and links. The "utter tosh" is your Strawman argument masks will "save us from" COVID. The "utter tosh" has been your entire post.
     
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  18. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    Then why cut out the similarities, I presented in your words and the words of the government, from your quote of my post?

    Just because you believe another group to be "bad" doesnt mean that you would be "bad" too, if you two happen to agree on one or two ideas.
     
  19. LoricaLady

    LoricaLady YHWH's Supporter

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    Greater protection? You mean like avoiding social isolation which is seen to be more deadly than smoking? You mean like freely breathing fresh air? You mean like taking supplements and eating healthily? You mean like getting sunshine instead of sitting indoors watching the trance inducing MSM's constant fear mongering?

    I am actually glad you posted that link. I stand corrected about Pam Popper. Not on anything else though. Thank you.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2020
  20. Redwingfan9

    Redwingfan9 Well-Known Member

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    You're ignoring the studies which clearly say cloth masks don't work. It doesn't matter if everyone is wearing a cloth mask, if they don't work then they don't work. The fact that numbers are rising throughout masked Europe suggests that the mask is nothing but a placebo.
     
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