Masks protect others...But also *you* yourself

[Halbhh]

"If you’re unlucky enough to encounter an infectious person, wearing any kind of face covering will reduce the amount of virus that your body will take in.

"As it turns out, that’s pretty important. Breathing in a small amount of virus may lead to no disease or far more mild infection. But inhaling a huge volume of virus particles can result in serious disease or death."

Masks offer much more protection against coronavirus than many think

additional articles:
How much of the coronavirus does it take to make you sick? - STAT

"A range of new research on face coverings shows that the risk of infection to the wearer is decreased by 65 percent, said Dean Blumberg, chief of pediatric infectious diseases at UC Davis Children’s Hospital."
Your Mask Cuts Own Risk by 65 Percent

*Update* --

While medical workers must have a stronger mask such as an N95, these are not widely available to the general public, and so the other kinds of masks that people can get are important to consider.

Good to know research results on cloth masks:

"...Although the filtration efficiencies for various fabrics when a single layer was used ranged from 5 to 80% and 5 to 95% for particle sizes of <300 nm and >300 nm, respectively, the efficiencies improved when multiple layers were used and when using a specific combination of different fabrics. Filtration efficiencies of the hybrids (such as cotton-silk, cotton-chiffon, cotton-flannel) was >80% (for particles <300 nm) and >90% (for particles >300 nm). We speculate that the enhanced performance of the hybrids is likely due to the combined effect of mechanical and electrostatic-based filtration. Cotton, the most widely used material for cloth masks performs better at higher weave densities (i.e., thread count) and can make a significant difference in filtration efficiencies. Our studies also imply that gaps (as caused by an improper fit of the mask) can result in over a 60% decrease in the filtration efficiency, implying the need for future cloth mask design studies to take into account issues of "fit" and leakage..."
Aerosol Filtration Efficiency of Common Fabrics Used in Respiratory Cloth Masks - PubMed

It matters that a cloth mask is densely woven material, has more than 1 layer, and fits the face reasonably well. Having 2 types of material helps also, as pointed to above.

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So, you are not only helping protect other people, but also yourself, when you wear a mask in public places or at gatherings that have more than only your own household.

Generally the basic recommendation is to wear a mask whenever indoors with non-household members (even extended family), and for outdoors at any time when you are less than 6 feet from non-household members outdoors.

 

[topher694]

Masks could very well be making it worse.

 

[Paulos23]

Masks could very well be making it worse.

HOW?

 

[topher694]

HOW?

People use them incorrectly

 

[Paulos23]

People use them incorrectly

Better they use them incorrectly than not at all.

 

[topher694]

Better they use them incorrectly than not at all.

No. Not if using them incorrectly spreads it worse than not wearing them at all.

 

[Paulos23]

No. Not if using them incorrectly spreads it worse than not wearing them at all.

Again, how? If someone is going to not wear a mask and they manage to wear one even if it doesn't cover their nose, I can at least see that and keep my distance.

If they are using it to cover the nose and mouth but doesn't seal well, that is still better than no mask and reduces the distance the droplets with the virus can travel. I would rather people make an effort to wear a mask than to just not wear one.

I just don't see how your statement adds up. Unless you just don't want to wear a mask.

 

[Halbhh]

Masks could very well be making it worse.

It's helpful to learn how they work even when far less strong than an N95, still working in 2 key ways:

A) they reduce a lot the amount virus breathed out by someone that is infected and shedding virus - some virus is still sent out into the air, but significantly less, since droplets tend to get caught in the mask.

B) they reduce a lot the amount of virus breathed in by someone wearing a mask when exposed to air with virus floating in it. That matters as shown in research, for how severely sick the person will get. Less initial virus = less severe illness typically.

 

[topher694]

Again, how? If someone is going to not wear a mask and they manage to wear one even if it doesn't cover their nose, I can at least see that and keep my distance.

If they are using it to cover the nose and mouth but doesn't seal well, that is still better than no mask and reduces the distance the droplets with the virus can travel. I would rather people make an effort to wear a mask than to just not wear one.

I just don't see how your statement adds up. Unless you just don't want to wear a mask.

It's remarkable how little critical thinking is going on about this. If someone says anything questioning about masks they automatically must not want to wear one and therefore not care about others... It is ridiculous.

Ok, let's say someone actually has covid, but no symptoms. That's what we are most concerned with right now. If masks do block a portion of the virus via our respiration that means the virus would be highly concentrated on the mask.

Now just a short time ago I watched people walking into a gas station. 5 in a row all did the exact same thing. Grabbed the mask out of their pocket. Touching the potential concentrated virus. Put it on their face. Grab the mask again at the nose/mouth level to pull it up over their nose thereby touching the most concentrated part a second time. Then, grab the door handle to open the door.

Every one of them touched that handle within a minute of each other. Inside people were touching and readjusting their masks all over the place.

That simply cannot be good. I don't know how bad it might be because no one is looking into it and if someone brings something like this up they are just called names and marginalized, as I have been several times.

I'm all for protecting people, I'm just not sure we are doing the best job we could be. And talking about that should be ok, but it's not.

 

[Halbhh]

It's remarkable how little critical thinking is going on about this. If someone says anything questioning about masks they automatically must not want to wear one and therefore not care about others... It is ridiculous.

Ok, let's say someone actually has covid, but no symptoms. That's what we are most concerned with right now. If masks do block a portion of the virus via our respiration that means the virus would be highly concentrated on the mask.

Now just a short time ago I watched people walking into a gas station. 5 in a row all did the exact same thing. Grabbed the mask out of their pocket. Touching the potential concentrated virus. Put it on their face. Grab the mask again at the nose/mouth level to pull it up over their nose thereby touching the most concentrated part a second time. Then, grab the door handle to open the door.

Every one of them touched that handle within a minute of each other. Inside people were touching and readjusting their masks all over the place.

That simply cannot be good. I don't know how bad it might be because no one is looking into it and if someone brings something like this up they are just called names and marginalized, as I have been several times.

I'm all for protecting people, I'm just not sure we are doing the best job we could be. And talking about that should be ok, but it's not.

If you read links in the OP, you'll learn why it matters how much virus you are exposed to at one time -- whether a small amount by touch or through a mask, or instead a much higher amount in virus suffused indoor air breathed straight in without a mask. Whether you are initially exposed to just a little virus, or instead a much larger quantity -- that matters, and that's the key thing talked being pointed out in the links.

 

[topher694]

If you read links in the OP, you'll learn why it matters how much virus you are exposed to at one time -- whether a small amount by touch or through a mask, or instead a much higher amount in virus suffused indoor air breathed straight in without a mask. Whether you are initially exposed to just a little virus, or instead a much larger quantity -- that matters, and that's the key thing talked being pointed out in the links.

I understand that perfectly well, better than most. If you read my previous comment you'll see that is not my concern.

 

[Paulos23]

It's remarkable how little critical thinking is going on about this. If someone says anything questioning about masks they automatically must not want to wear one and therefore not care about others... It is ridiculous.

Ok, let's say someone actually has covid, but no symptoms. That's what we are most concerned with right now. If masks do block a portion of the virus via our respiration that means the virus would be highly concentrated on the mask.

Now just a short time ago I watched people walking into a gas station. 5 in a row all did the exact same thing. Grabbed the mask out of their pocket. Touching the potential concentrated virus. Put it on their face. Grab the mask again at the nose/mouth level to pull it up over their nose thereby touching the most concentrated part a second time. Then, grab the door handle to open the door.

Every one of them touched that handle within a minute of each other. Inside people were touching and readjusting their masks all over the place.

That simply cannot be good. I don't know how bad it might be because no one is looking into it and if someone brings something like this up they are just called names and marginalized, as I have been several times.

I'm all for protecting people, I'm just not sure we are doing the best job we could be. And talking about that should be ok, but it's not.

If they have COVID and it is concentrated on the mask and they touch the mask, touch the mask, and then touch something else leaving the virus there. Other people should be washing their hands after touching publicly handled surfaces and not touching their faces. This has been the common message for a while now.

I think you are trying to exaggerate the danger to make it look like no masks are better than masks.

For that matter, I would rather they sneeze or cough in that mask rather than without it. Think about that, sneezes and coughs spread droplets that may have the virus farther then just breathing or talking.

 

[topher694]

If they have COVID and it is concentrated on the mask and they touch the mask, touch the mask, and then touch something else leaving the virus there. Other people should be washing their hands after touching publicly handled surfaces and not touching their faces. This has been the common message for a while now.

That may be the message, but my point is people are not doing it, not by a long shot. In my observation just today by the time they could wash their hands it was already too late.

I think you are trying to exaggerate the danger to make it look like no masks are better than masks.

And this right here is the problem. Go look how many times I've expressed my concern for others, but you just completely dismiss that. That's actually really poor taste. If someone doesn't see things 100% the same as you they MUST have selfish motives? What hubris. It is attitudes like that that are making things worse not better.

 

[Halbhh]

I understand that perfectly well, better than most. If you read my previous comment you'll see that is not my concern.

But I did.

The problem in how you wrote earlier seems to feed into the idea some have that the typical mask wearing is useless or even likely as not to cause as many or more deaths than it prevents. When in reality it's the other way around, just by observation, already, in that countries with high mask wearing have sharply limited transmission. An observational fact. One can look it up, and read more on it.

But, your useful point (which I'd taken to heart months ago myself) on how gasoline pump handles could spread the virus, for instance, is quite useful to post as a post to help others.

So, you could make a thread about the need for caution and care at a gasoline pump from touching the handle, and like situations.

Still, the reality that high initial viral load through breathing in indoor air full of the virus is more dangerous (by far)-- that's how the partially effective cloth masks will save a lot of lives on the whole.

But, by all means, make a good post about avoiding touch spreading -- that would be a service.

It's remarkable how little critical thinking is going on about this. If someone says anything questioning about masks they automatically must not want to wear one and therefore not care about others... It is ridiculous.

Ok, let's say someone actually has covid, but no symptoms. That's what we are most concerned with right now. If masks do block a portion of the virus via our respiration that means the virus would be highly concentrated on the mask.

Now just a short time ago I watched people walking into a gas station. 5 in a row all did the exact same thing. Grabbed the mask out of their pocket. Touching the potential concentrated virus. Put it on their face. Grab the mask again at the nose/mouth level to pull it up over their nose thereby touching the most concentrated part a second time. Then, grab the door handle to open the door.

Every one of them touched that handle within a minute of each other. Inside people were touching and readjusting their masks all over the place.

That simply cannot be good. I don't know how bad it might be because no one is looking into it and if someone brings something like this up they are just called names and marginalized, as I have been several times.

I'm all for protecting people, I'm just not sure we are doing the best job we could be. And talking about that should be ok, but it's not.

 

[topher694]

But I did.

The problem in how you wrote earlier seems to feed into the idea some have that the typical mask wearing is useless or even likely as not to cause as many or more deaths than it prevents. When in reality it's the other way around, just by observation, already, in that countries with high mask wearing have sharply limited transmission. An observational fact. One can look it up, and read more on it.

But, your useful point (which I'd taken to heart months ago myself) on how gasoline pump handles could spread the virus, for instance, is quite useful to post as a post to help others.

So, you could make a thread about the need for caution and care at a gasoline pump from touching the handle, and like situations.

Still, the reality that high initial viral load through breathing in indoor air full of the virus is more dangerous (by far)-- that's how the partially effective cloth masks will save a lot of lives on the whole.

But, by all means, make a good post about avoiding touch spreading -- that would be a service.

My point was not that wearing does or does not cause it to spread differently. It was we don't know because it isn't being talked about or looked into. And my personal observations show an alarming lack of self awareness.

Truth is that the use of lack thereof is likely not a one size fits all deal, and if we could apply smart solutions based on the situation it would be far more effective... But every time, without fail, I get attacked and accused for saying as much.

 

[Aldebaran]

If they have COVID and it is concentrated on the mask and they touch the mask, touch the mask, and then touch something else leaving the virus there. Other people should be washing their hands after touching publicly handled surfaces and not touching their faces. This has been the common message for a while now.

After all that concentration of the disease on the mask, the mask should be considered a biohazard after use. Instead, there's nothing said about disposing of them properly.

 

[Halbhh]

My point was not that wearing does or does not cause it to spread differently. It was we don't know because it isn't being talked about or looked into. And my personal observations show an alarming lack of self awareness.

Truth is that the use of lack thereof is likely not a one size fits all deal, and if we could apply smart solutions based on the situation it would be far more effective... But every time, without fail, I get attacked and accused for saying as much.

For a long time America was on the whole doing a lot of disinfecting of surfaces....

But for gas pump handles it has been (is) caveat emptor -- you'd better be aware, or else you could get the virus from a gas pump by touch, and no one would warn you. You had to figure it out on your own.

But also for a long time, too long, many Americans (too many) didn't know yet that masks are very helpful (have a big effect) to lessen spread and lessen severity of illness(!). Even masks that only are partially effective(!) -- because the virus spreads mostly by breathing in virus that is floating in indoor air, and initial viral exposure amount has a large effect.

So, it's hard to stop this virus, especially here in the U.S. and in other nations like us (Brazil for instance), where many people thought masks didn't matter much or the virus wasn't too dangerous, not knowing it matters just how much you get exposed to at once initially.

 

[Halbhh]

After all that concentration of the disease on the mask, the mask should be considered a biohazard after use. Instead, there's nothing said about disposing of them properly.

A cloth mask should be washed with detergent. A person should ideally have several, and wash them like other clothing.

I wonder if that's already the general knowledge people have, or if it would be new information to many?

 

[Aldebaran]

A cloth mask should be washed with detergent. A person should ideally have several, and wash them like other clothing.

I wonder if that's already the general knowledge people have, or if it would be new information to many?

But most people seem to be wearing the disposable kind, and disposing of one without precaution is dangerous, and yet nothing is ever said about that.

On another note, does putting a cloth (or disposable) mask out in the sun for an hour kill the germs? I've been doing that with a cloth one I made.

 

[Halbhh]

But most people seem to be wearing the disposable kind, and disposing of one without precaution is dangerous, and yet nothing is ever said about that.

On another note, does putting a cloth (or disposable) mask out in the sun for an hour kill the germs? I've been doing that with a cloth one I made.

That's a good question. (and I found a link to read, and you'll quickly see it might not be enough and why; though also heat and humidity do degrade the virus over time also).

Does UV light kill the new coronavirus? | Live Science
(our ozone layer blocks the specific type of UV light that is the sure thing)