Mississippi School Homecoming Celebrations Turn Deadly as 8 People are Killed 20 Injured in Separate Shootings

[Bradskii]

I grew up in rural southern England in the late 70s. The Christianity that was endemic then is very different to the Christianity I’m exposed to in this site.

I was South Wales in the 60's. The family life was centered on the church (Anglican). It likewise bears absolutely no relationship whatsoever to what I see here.

 

[JosephZ]

I don't know anything about the research this medical journal did, and don't automatically trust it. Gun sales aren't exactly medicine, so that makes this outfit most likely to be politically partisan while masquerading as something upstanding in the field of medicine.

Gun violence is a public health crisis, so that's why doctors conduct studies on gun-related issues and medical journals publish their findings. While there will always be biases, the studies and articles usually cite their sources, which prevents them from blatantly misrepresenting the data.

It is actually illegal here in the United States to sell a gun to someone legally prohibited from purchasing a gun.

That's the law, but how can you know if the person you intend to sell a gun to is prohibited from purchasing a gun?

When guns are legally registered to you - and you registered upon purchase like 99.9% of gun owners in America - anything that happens with that gun is still potentially on you.

There is no gun registry at the federal level, and very few states require gun registration.

let's say you sold your gun to joe blow and he goes and commits a crime with the gun, and then it's found the individual was a felon at the time of the sale, guess what - you get to go to jail.

18 U.S.C. § 922(d)

"It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person, including as a juvenile... prohibited persons, such as felons, fugitives, etc.

The only way you can get charged for selling a gun to someone that's later used in a crime is if you sold it to them knowing in advance that they were prohibited from owning a gun or that they intended to use it to commit a crime. Most people aren't going to provide that type of information, and if you were to ask, unless they are just stupid, they are going to say no.

Being hyper careful about the who, you are entering into a private gun sale with is exceedingly important.

I agree.

The private gun sale behind the counter of a convenience store to a felon or other criminal type is illegal on its face and the seller is as criminal as the buyer in such a situation.

If the seller had no idea that the person they sold the gun to was a felon or intended to use the gun in a crime, only the buyer is the criminal.

If we were to set law enforcement free to enforce the laws on the books we would be well served as a society. We don't need new laws we need to simply enforce the laws we have. Just straight up.

There are no laws on the books that prevent me from buying a gun today without a background check and a record of me doing so. A person who is prohibited from owning a gun can also go online or to a flea market and purchase a gun today from someone without a background check and a record of them doing so in most states. There needs to be a law at the federal level that requires background checks on all gun purchases with severe penalties for both buyers and sellers who are caught making a transaction without one.

 

[JosephZ]

Well if yall think Mississippi is going to change its gun laws, then you better look for another solution.

The solution is to have stronger gun laws at the federal level.

 

[Larniavc]

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Well if yall think Mississippi is going to change its gun laws, then you better look for another solution.

Americans do like to place their right to bear arms above their right to life.

 

[MarkSB]

Funny how small percentages seem to only matter for certain things. Yet small percentages don't matter for others. They are touted as "not that bad because its just a small percentage and so we dont really need to address it."

Depends on the situation, since life is rarely that black and white. A small percentage might matter more in one situation than it does in another. Unless you're someone who likes false equivalencies, which politicians in the U.S. are very fond of.

In other words, a simple law that could possibly prevent a small percentage of gun deaths and which (by my estimation) has very little to no negative impact? Yeah, I would say that's worth it. Claiming a "national emergency" and starting a trade war with a neighboring country over fentanyl inflows when only 1% of fentanyl seizures are coming from that country? I would say that's a situation where the small percentage didn't justify the action that was taken.

Look, I personally could care less if private sales had to have background checks. Just dont blow smoke up our skirts, trying to tell us its a problem and its going to solve much of anything. Its not.

At least it would show that they care. I'm guessing here, but such laws could have a broader cultural impact on attitudes toward guns in general. In other words, they might have an impact which goes beyond just the direct results of the law. And it would be encouraging to have some politicians on the right demonstrate that they aren't going to be held captive by the NRA.

 

[JosephZ]

Since you dont know how many then you cannot say its a problem. In order to say something is a problem you have to be able to give correct data to support it. And since you dont have it, you can't say its a problem. You are guessing.

I really thought providing you with a dozen examples in which over 100 people were shot by guns that were purchased from private sellers would be enough.

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In 2018, a Chicago police officer was shot and killed in broad daylight by a person with four felony convictions. During the investigation, authorities found that shell casings from the same gun were linked to another Chicago shooting in 2017, just two months after its last known purchase in Wisconsin. They later found the gun and multiple others recovered in Chicago linked back to one Wisconsin man who would buy guns and then privately sell them through Armslist, a major gun classifieds website. Because these transactions occurred in Wisconsin—a state that does not require background checks on all gun sales—no background checks were required on the private sales, a legal deficit that helped this gun trafficking scheme succeed and led to the murder of a police officer.

Research shows that states without background check laws are prime grounds for criminals and traffickers looking to acquire guns, while state laws requiring background checks for all handgun sales are associated with 29 percent lower rates of gun trafficking across state lines.

Of the 390,154 traced guns that crossed state lines, 74 percent originated in states without background check laws. This factor is even more pronounced for likely trafficked guns: 78 percent of the 122,089 traced guns recovered across state lines within three years came from states without background check laws. Nearly 60 percent of these guns ended up in a state with a background check law.

The videos below show just how easy it is for gun traffickers and people prohibited from owning a gun to acquire them in states without universal background checks.

Anyone with common sense can see that this is a problem.

 

[rjs330]

Thing is, the ‘culture’ that went on those marches is my culture. I’m as English as the long day. But it is only the racist people within my culture who go on these marches.

Also the ring leaders often turn out to be criminals like Stephen Yaxley-Lennon and Anthony Styles.

So it’s not about culture; it’s about racism with a side of fraud, common assault and indecent assault of children.

I don't think so at all. Did some racists join in? Most likely. Just like the Palistinian protests in your country contained racists and antisemites.

Your country has allowed a flood of people in from other countries and they bring a completely different culture with them, and that culture is causing a lot of problems in your country. People are concerned about it and rightfully so. A clash of cultures is not racism.

But lets face it, not all cultures are equal. Some cultures are better than others. And with subcultures it becomes even more apparent.

 

[d taylor]

The solution is to have stronger gun laws at the federal level.

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I just do not know, looks like federal drug laws did nothing to stop the selling and using of illegal drugs

 

[rjs330]

I really thought providing you with a dozen examples in which over 100 people were shot by guns that were purchased from private sellers would be enough.

​

In 2018, a Chicago police officer was shot and killed in broad daylight by a person with four felony convictions. During the investigation, authorities found that shell casings from the same gun were linked to another Chicago shooting in 2017, just two months after its last known purchase in Wisconsin. They later found the gun and multiple others recovered in Chicago linked back to one Wisconsin man who would buy guns and then privately sell them through Armslist, a major gun classifieds website. Because these transactions occurred in Wisconsin—a state that does not require background checks on all gun sales—no background checks were required on the private sales, a legal deficit that helped this gun trafficking scheme succeed and led to the murder of a police officer.

Research shows that states without background check laws are prime grounds for criminals and traffickers looking to acquire guns, while state laws requiring background checks for all handgun sales are associated with 29 percent lower rates of gun trafficking across state lines.

Of the 390,154 traced guns that crossed state lines, 74 percent originated in states without background check laws. This factor is even more pronounced for likely trafficked guns: 78 percent of the 122,089 traced guns recovered across state lines within three years came from states without background check laws. Nearly 60 percent of these guns ended up in a state with a background check law.

The videos below show just how easy it is for gun traffickers and people prohibited from owning a gun to acquire them in states without universal background checks.

Anyone with common sense can see that this is a problem.

You brought up examples over many many years, going clear back to Columbine. The number of gun murders going back to Columbine is large. The number of guns used that were purchased from legitimate private sales is miniscule in comparison. You have no stats to prove otherwise. Certainly its not zero. But in comparison making private gun sales have background checks won't make much of a difference. Its not the problem you made it out to be. What is occurring in cities is a problem. The number of deaths in Chicago every week is a problem. Who's doing most of the killing per capita is a problem. Legit private sales is not a problem.

Like I said, I personally dont care. But dont claim something is a problem when its not.

 

[JosephZ]

You brought up examples over many many years, going clear back to Columbine. The number of gun murders going back to Columbine is large.

I could have provided many more examples. Like I said, I thought the ones I provided would have been enough to show there is a problem.

The number of guns used that were purchased from legitimate private sales is miniscule in comparison.

Thousands of trafficked guns are purchased from private sellers and are later used in crimes. There have also been a few high profile mass shootings in recent years where the guns were purchased from private sellers by the shooter after being blocked at a licensed gun dealer.

You have no stats to prove otherwise. Certainly its not zero.

There's no way to get an exact number, but it would be in the hundreds each year at a minimum. Grok estimated the following.

Aggregated Data: Scale of the Issue (2005–2025)

Annual Homicides from Private-Sale Guns: ~1,800–2,700 (10–15% of ~18,000 gun homicides/year), based on inmate surveys and trace extrapolations.

Total Over 20 Years: ~36,000–54,000 cases.

But in comparison making private gun sales have background checks won't make much of a difference.

This study found that universal background checks were associated with 14.9% lower overall homicide rates. This one found a 10% reduction. Even if the number is just 5%, that would prevent 1,000 deaths each year if universal background checks were required by federal law.

Its not the problem you made it out to be.

A gun trafficker could go to the flea markets in my area and pick up a dozen or so guns and take them to DC or Baltimore and sell them to gang members on any given weekend. A woman could get a restraining order against her husband this afternoon following a fight, and even if he is prohibited by law from purchasing a gun, he can go online, find someone with a gun to sell, meet them in a parking lot, and purchase a gun to kill her with in a matter of hours. How can you not see this as a serious problem?

What is occurring in cities is a problem. The number of deaths in Chicago every week is a problem.

Until there are stronger gun laws at the federal level, guns are going to continue to flow into cities like Chicago that have strong gun laws. Again, 3 out of 4 guns that are trafficked come from states without universal background checks and 60% of them end up in cities like Chicago. If the flow of guns into the cities was reduced, the number of deaths would be reduced. Common sense gun laws are called this for a reason.

Like I said, I personally dont care. But dont claim something is a problem when its not.

Well, most Americans do care, with around 90% of us recognizing the lack of background checks as a problem in this country and supporting a law that would require background checks for all gun sales, including private sales.

 

[rjs330]

I could have provided many more examples. Like I said, I thought the ones I provided would have been enough to show there is a problem

I don't believe it is a problem. If somehow you could prove that 7% of murders were committed with guns purchased from legitimate private sales then we could talk about it being a problem. Why 7% you ask? I know its arbitrary, but I firmly believe that during the BLM protests 7% turned into riots. And I called that a problem. So I am trying to be consistent.

Thousands of trafficked guns are purchased from private sellers and are later used in crimes.

What is a trafficked gun? I don't follow. Is it illegal? Because when referring to trafficking we are referring to illegal activity of trafficking. If its a legal sale then it can't be trafficking. So
, what do you mean?

 

[rjs330]

Annual Homicides from Private-Sale Guns: ~1,800–2,700 (10–15% of ~18,000 gun homicides/year), based on inmate surveys and trace extrapolations.

I want to know if these gun sales were legal ones. Not buying from some back street, back alley transaction. Were these guns brought from fun shows? Where they bought from on line legal sales? I don't have enough information on them. Secondly we need to know if a background check would have prevented the gun sale. There is too much missing information to make a qualified statement.

If indeed those those numbers are correct AND those guns were purchased through legitimate sales AND a background check would have prevented the sale then I would agree that its a problem.

 

[MarkSB]

I want to know if these gun sales were legal ones. Not buying from some back street, back alley transaction. Were these guns brought from fun shows? Where they bought from on line legal sales? I don't have enough information on them. Secondly we need to know if a background check would have prevented the gun sale. There is too much missing information to make a qualified statement.

If indeed those those numbers are correct AND those guns were purchased through legitimate sales AND a background check would have prevented the sale then I would agree that its a problem.

Putting the numbers aside, in concept it's not good for someone who gets denied a gun sale from a licensed dealer be able to turn around and buy one somewhere else. We should want robust and logical laws in our society around things such as this.

 

[JosephZ]

I don't believe it is a problem. If somehow you could prove that 7% of murders were committed with guns purchased from legitimate private sales then we could talk about it being a problem. Why 7% you ask? I know its arbitrary, but I firmly believe that during the BLM protests 7% turned into riots. And I called that a problem. So I am trying to be consistent.

I appreciate your approach, even if the 7% figure is arbitrary, as you said. Since there's no way of knowing an exact percentage, we will probably never reach an agreement on this subject. Either way, since private sellers are a significant source of trafficked firearms and a significant number of homicides are committed by shooters who purchased guns directly from a private seller, that leads me to believe that the percentage of homicides that result from private gun sales is likely higher than 7%.

What is a trafficked gun? I don't follow. Is it illegal? Because when referring to trafficking we are referring to illegal activity of trafficking. If its a legal sale then it can't be trafficking. So
, what do you mean?

Here is the definition according to the Department of Justice: “the movement of one or more firearms into the illegal market for a criminal purpose.”

Firearm trafficking can involve the intrastate, interstate, and international movement of firearms and comprises:

• Trafficking in new firearms by large-scale straw purchasers, organized straw purchasing rings,
and small-scale straw purchasers that acquire firearms from FFLs, at gun shows, or other
premises; by corrupt FFLs; or by unlicensed makers.

• Trafficking in secondhand (or “used”) firearms by large-scale straw purchasers, organized straw
purchasing rings, and small-scale straw purchasers that acquire firearms from FFLs, at gun
shows, or other premises; by unlicensed sellers through flea markets, newspaper ads, gun
publications, the internet, personal associations, or bartering and trading within criminal
networks; or by corrupt FFLs.

• Trafficking in new and secondhand stolen firearms involving guns stolen from FFLs, or thefts
from common carriers, private residences, and vehicles.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/report/nfcta-volume-iii-part-i/download

The most frequent types of trafficking channels identified in ATF investigations were unlicensed firearm dealing by private persons (40.7%) and straw purchasing from FFLs (39.5%). ATF investigations revealed a variety of illegal diversions from lawful firearm commerce including trafficking in firearms through online marketplaces (3.6%) such as Craigslist, OfferUp, eBay, Armslist, and Gunbroker; at gun shows, flea markets, or auctions (3.0%); social media platforms (2.7%) 2 such as Facebook and Instagram; and through peer-to-peer applications (1.0%) such as WhatsApp, TikTok, and Tinder.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/report/nfcta-volume-iii-part-iii/download

 

[rjs330]

Putting the numbers aside, in concept it's not good for someone who gets denied a gun sale from a licensed dealer be able to turn around and buy one somewhere else. We should want robust and logical laws in our society around things such as this.

I don't disagree. But I would like to know how often this happens and they end up killing someone. I just want accurate information.

 

[rjs330]

I appreciate your approach, even if the 7% figure is arbitrary, as you said. Since there's no way of knowing an exact percentage, we will probably never reach an agreement on this subject. Either way, since private sellers are a significant source of trafficked firearms and a significant number of homicides are committed by shooters who purchased guns directly from a private seller, that leads me to believe that the percentage of homicides that result from private gun sales is likely higher than 7%.


Here is the definition according to the Department of Justice: “the movement of one or more firearms into the illegal market for a criminal purpose.”

Firearm trafficking can involve the intrastate, interstate, and international movement of firearms and comprises:

• Trafficking in new firearms by large-scale straw purchasers, organized straw purchasing rings,
and small-scale straw purchasers that acquire firearms from FFLs, at gun shows, or other
premises; by corrupt FFLs; or by unlicensed makers.

• Trafficking in secondhand (or “used”) firearms by large-scale straw purchasers, organized straw
purchasing rings, and small-scale straw purchasers that acquire firearms from FFLs, at gun
shows, or other premises; by unlicensed sellers through flea markets, newspaper ads, gun
publications, the internet, personal associations, or bartering and trading within criminal
networks; or by corrupt FFLs.

• Trafficking in new and secondhand stolen firearms involving guns stolen from FFLs, or thefts
from common carriers, private residences, and vehicles.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/report/nfcta-volume-iii-part-i/download

The most frequent types of trafficking channels identified in ATF investigations were unlicensed firearm dealing by private persons (40.7%) and straw purchasing from FFLs (39.5%). ATF investigations revealed a variety of illegal diversions from lawful firearm commerce including trafficking in firearms through online marketplaces (3.6%) such as Craigslist, OfferUp, eBay, Armslist, and Gunbroker; at gun shows, flea markets, or auctions (3.0%); social media platforms (2.7%) 2 such as Facebook and Instagram; and through peer-to-peer applications (1.0%) such as WhatsApp, TikTok, and Tinder.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/report/nfcta-volume-iii-part-iii/download

If straw purchasers are buying guns at gun shows and then going around and selling guns to gangs and such or doing illefal sales etc, that totally disagree with that. They are basically operating as a gun dealer without a legit license. I have a problem with that.

 

[MrMoe]

Thing is, the ‘culture’ that went on those marches is my culture. I’m as English as the long day. But it is only the racist people within my culture who go on these marches.

Hasty generalization fallacy.

Also the ring leaders often turn out to be criminals like Stephen Yaxley-Lennon and Anthony Styles.

Stephen is anti-Islam. Islam is a religion not a race.

Don’t know much about Anthony, but I could only find anti-immigration statements. No statements specifically about race.

To quote another member here: “Words have meanings.”

So it’s not about culture; it’s about racism with a side of fraud, common assault and indecent assault of children.

Again, the hasty generalization fallacy.

 

[d taylor]

Hasty generalization fallacy.



Stephen is anti-Islam. Islam is a religion not a race.

Don’t know much about Anthony, but I could only find anti-immigration statements. No statements specifically about race.

To quote another member here: “Words have meanings.”



Again, the hasty generalization fallacy.

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Oh, do not destroy his little racism world where the evil caucasian is the cause of the worlds problems.