• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

The Schumer Shutdown

In a heated call, Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene chastises Republicans over their shutdown strategy


On Tuesday, Greene accused her party of letting the country down, according to a Republican source who was on the conference call. Greene later confirmed the comments herself, even adding more detail, in the latest sign of a rift between her and her party.

Greene has long been one of President Donald Trump's most vocal backers, but in recent weeks, she's bucked her party on a number of high-profile issues, including the administration’s strikes on Iran, the conflict in Gaza and its handling of files related to the Jeffrey Epstein case.

Not long after Tuesday's call ended, the Georgia Republican began posting on X and confirming reports that she had reamed out her party leadership and expressed frustration with the White House's political team.

"I said I have no respect for the House not being in session passing our bills and the President’s executive orders. And I demanded to know from Speaker Johnson what the Republican plan for healthcare is," she wrote.


Greene also argued that Republicans' shutdown strategy has angered the American people and hurt Trump’s popularity, according to the source on the call.
Representative Greene is incorrect.
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Trump third term

If we have to choose between Mamdani style communism, and a Trump style monarchy for this United States, and this becomes the new left/ right division going forward... We would need to decide on the lesser of two evils.

...Which would you prefer? Communism or Monarchy.
The choice is between Democracy or Monrchy or oligarchy.

Please remember this from Announcements:

It includes: 'Do not call either political party in the US or members thereof Fascist, or Socialist*, or Marxist or Communist. '
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Bill Gates Says Climate Change ‘Will Not Lead to Humanity’s Demise’

Strawman. Scientists didn't say it would lead to humanity's demise. They said it would lead to more frequent major hurricanes. It has.

Or 'devastaing consequences'. It will.

Exclusive: ‘Devastating consequences’ now inevitable but emissions cuts still vital, says António Guterres in sole interview before Cop30
Well, they were claiming that over a million species would become extinct, and a prominent UN official proclaimed to the Associated Press that: "entire nations could be wiped off the face of the Earth by rising sea levels" by the year 2000.
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Is 'once saved always saved' a biblical teaching?

Where does Paul make a specific claim to "believe in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life"?
-
Paul writes to believers so he does not need to evangelize believers. John writes to the person who has not believed yet in Jesus.

But when Paul did evangelize he used the message he was taught from Jesus.

But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.

and what does Jesus teach

Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.
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So.....did your insurance premium go up?

Crikey! That's insane. Does it cover everything?

I need to correct the annual figure...it's actually a lot less... $4,180 are our annual medical premiums. Apologies for the miscaluclation! Dental and Vision are additional.

As a "high deductable" plan, we pay the first $2500 each year before insurance kicks in covering 80% of the bill. Preventative care is covered at 100%. Our maximum payout in a given year is capped at $6,000 (in network) or $10,000 (out of network).

We have the lowest family plan available. A premium plan is over 8k a year with lower deductables and flat co-pays.
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No kings ... including Jesus?

Courts are able to rule on all law breaking.

Where are the Court rulings of such law breaking?

It seems the voters gave their verdict on that unconvincing lawfare.

Don't you just love democracy?
per AI;

  • Freezing federal grants:
    • In February, a federal judge blocked an executive order that froze nearly all federal grants, ruling that the President lacked the authority to withhold congressionally appropriated funds.
    • In March, a federal judge issued a preliminary injunction against the administration's plan to cap the indirect costs on National Institutes of Health (NIH) grants, ensuring continued research funding.
  • Terminating federal workers:
    • A federal judge blocked mass layoffs of probationary federal employees in February.
    • In October, a federal court extended a preliminary injunction preventing reductions-in-force (RIFs) for thousands of federal employees, citing "political retribution".

  • Birthright citizenship: A federal judge issued a nationwide preliminary injunction in February blocking an executive order that attempted to end birthright citizenship for children of non-citizens. The judge ruled the order was likely unconstitutional under the 14th Amendment.

  • Targeting law firms: In March, a federal judge ruled that an executive order terminating government contracts with the Perkins Coie law firm was unlawful.


You might find this site useful -

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Trump has actually been stopped in many actions as time has gone on. Courts are rather slow.
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The Thing Most Sabbath Keepers Do not Talk About.

Romans 14 is about not judging others on the basis of the faith they have been given.

Claiming a 'Greater Holiness' by observing "a day" is exactly what Paul is teaching against.

That's not what my post says, nor what I believe, nor what Paul was teaching. It doesn't matter what a man "esteems", it matters what God Esteems. A new convert is filled with the influences of an evil world, man-made religious traditions and philosophies. God is faithful to reveal them to a true believer in His own good time. In Joshua, God brought Israel out of sin but did not "drive out" all the pagan influences at once. He drove them out little by little, leaving some there to "prove them" whether they would live in obedience to God or not.

A true believer will "Seek first the Kingdom of God and God's Righteousness. He will "present his body a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is his reasonable service". No longer "conformed to this world: but become transformed by the renewing of his mind, that he may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."

Paul is telling the Body Of Christ not to judge this person regarding man-made traditions. That this man will "learn from God" and be fully persuaded in his mind whose Word's to live by.

Through his Faith in God, he will "press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. "and if in any thing he be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto him."

In Rom. 14, Paul was talking about the days one man or another man might "Esteem" above another day. Not God's Judgments, or Days God Esteems about another, or God's commandments. Any person of Faith seeking the Righteousness of God, as Jesus instructs, would find what God deems or Esteems as Holy and would Honor and respect God in such matters, wouldn't they?

I know "many", who come in Christ's Name, and "Many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord, separate Rom. 14 from the rest of the Bible, and then use it as justification to transgress God's commandments.

As my post said, I don't believe Paul was teaching the weak in Faith to reject God's Commandments and judgments, and I don't believe he write the chapter to justify disobedience to God..
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The Thing Most Sabbath Keepers Do not Talk About.

if I am told to not eat the cookie or I’ll be punished, And I do so I’m put in time out that is a constructed consequence. If I’m told not to drink poison, and I do dying would be a natural consequence from drinking the poison.
Which commandments have natural consequences?
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No kings ... including Jesus?

Did you see that a lot of people don’t want Donald Trump to be the king of America?

On October 18th, there were a lot of “No Kings” rallies around the country, decrying what the protesters say are authoritarian actions by President Trump, whom they claim acts more like a king than a president. One protester in San Francisco held a sign saying, “Hey Trump nobody paid us to be here. We all hate you for free.”

Nice. You can read the Babylon Bee’s list of things accomplished by people like that in the No Kings demonstrate

Did you see that a lot of people don’t want Donald Trump to be the king of America?

On October 18th, there were a lot of “No Kings” rallies around the country, decrying what the protesters say are authoritarian actions by President Trump, whom they claim acts more like a king than a president. One protester in San Francisco held a sign saying, “Hey Trump nobody paid us to be here. We all hate you for free.”

Nice. You can read the Babylon Bee’s list of things accomplished by people like that in the No Kings demonstrations here.

The vast majority of protesters were democrats and leftists (I do believe there is a distinction between the two), and, of course, there were jabs from the right about the rallies, with some calling it “democrat sulk day.” Naturally, those supporting the “No Kings” rallies deny that and say they are simply against the despotic actions of any president who crosses the line of democracy.

Am I the only one calling baloney on that?

Continued below.
The article is yet another example of why The Christian Post is not worth reading. I mean really - did you even see this line: "You can read the Babylon Bee’s list of things accomplished by people like that...." This site does not allow Babylon Bee articles as they are so often flaming, and are just parody. Yet this author finds it okay?


It is insulting to imply that just because one is a participant of a No Kings protest that they don't want Jesus as King either. As a committed Christian of 60+ years, it is sad that other Christians have to insult others. @Michie, do you read what you are posting? Is it okay to flame?


There is a long list of autocratic behavior by Trump. The behaviors came like a blitzkrieg (for lack of a better word) and the courts are moving slowly. For instance, Trump's federalization of the DC Metropolitan Police Department and his deployment of the National Guard to the nation’s capital and LA and Chicago is unprecedented. The only other times the National Guard has been called in is for widespread riots.

Trump is also picking people for jobs based on loyalty rather than capiblility. Hegepeth is an example of that. Most of his cabinet is inept from what I see. They serve the propaganda over the facts.

Then there is Trump's tariffs which is unilaterally doing. From AI:
Congressional authority and delegation
  • Constitutional power:
    The U.S. Constitution gives Congress the power to "lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises" and to regulate foreign commerce.

  • Delegation to the President:
    Congress has passed laws that delegate some tariff-imposing authority to the President under specific conditions.

  • Limitations:
    Legal experts emphasize that any presidential authority to impose tariffs is a delegation from Congress and not an inherent power of the presidency.
But Trump behaves like is an all powerful ruler in regards to tariffs, which is why it is creating financial stress in the US and elsewhere.

Another example of his autocratic behavior is demanding money from universities and colleges or demanding changes that he himself wants in order to get their funding. Universities are fighting back From:


The battle for academic freedom and institutional sovereignty in higher education continues to play out as another university has rejected a White House offer for expanded access to federal funding in return for agreeing to a series of demands.​
On Monday, the University of Arizona declined an offer by the Trump administration to join a compact that would potentially give preferential funding in exchange for a list of changes to school policy, including no longer considering sex and ethnicity in admissions and capping international enrollment. The letter was sent to nine universities at the beginning of the month, and seven schools have rejected the offer so far.​
Brown university and Harvard are resisting Trump. There are examples of authoritarians forcing changes at universities as the autocrats power grew. Folks would be upset if I gave some specific examples.

Another example is how Trump is destroying the East wing and building a huge ballroom. When Roosevelt added the East Wing to the WH, he had congressional approval.
Did Trump bother? NOPE. Like a dictator, as if the WH is his personal property, he is proceeding with his plans. Did he get approval in any way for the changes? Nope.

Interesting fact AI: " Adolf Hitler had a large, extravagant ballroom added to the Old Reich Chancellery in Berlin in 1936."
Not saying that Trump is Hitler but it is interesting.
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Does Regeneration Precede Faith?

I read Koine Greek relatively fluently and produce my own translations the majority of the time. This isn't about "choosing" a translation that supports a theology. It's about recognizing what the Greek verb form actually communicates. The verb in question -- γεγέννηται (gegennetai) -- is a perfect passive indicative. The perfect tense in Greek denotes a completed action with continuing results.

Grammatically, then, it means "has been born" or "has come to be born," with an emphasis on the abiding effect of that birth. Some older English versions, such as the KJV, use "is born" because in older English "is" can express a resultant state, roughly equivalent to "has been born." Modern English, however, distinguishes these more carefully, which is why most contemporary translations (NASB, ESV, CSB, etc.) render it "has been born," which is a more precise reflection of the perfect aspect.

So, ironically, it would be more accurate to say that you are choosing a translation that fits your theology. Even then, the issue isn't one of theological bias but of grammatical misunderstanding. The "is born" rendering was never intended to depict a present or ongoing action. It reflects the abiding condition of one who has already been born.

To read "is born" as referring only to a present or ongoing process, rather than a completed act with lasting results, is simply to misread the Greek. The grammar itself establishes that the birth precedes and results in faith, not vice versa.


That's precisely the issue, though. None of us should claim theology apart from grammar, because meaning is inseparable from language. You don't need to be a "Greek grammar theologian," but if the inspired text is written in Greek, then its grammar is how God chose to communicate truth.

So the question isn't what seems right to us, but what the text actually says. And in 1 John 5:1, the perfect indicative indicates a completed act of new birth with ongoing results, while the present participle describes the continuous activity of the one already born of God. That grammatical structure isn't a theological bias; it's simply how the language functions. I'm happy to show this from other passages if you wish.

As for your claim that "it does not take that to see that regeneration ... does not precede a persons belief," that is an assertion, not an argument. I have presented a grammatical argument grounded in the text itself. Moreover, Scripture consistently portrays regeneration as the necessary precondition of faith (cf. John 1:12-13; 3:3-8; 6:44, 65; Eph. 2:1-5; Acts 16:14). You can choose to argue that that isn't what those passages are saying, but that would require actually engaging with the grammar and context, not just asserting the contrary.

I'd ask in return: can you identify a single passage that explicitly teaches a person believes first and is born again after?


The relationship is logical, not necessarily chronological. The question is not whether regeneration and faith occur simultaneously in time (in human experience, they likely do), but whether one is the logical cause of the other. When John says πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων… ἐκ τοῦ Θεοῦ γεγέννηται (1 John 5:1), the grammar indicates that the believing one is characterized by belief precisely because he has been born of God. The new birth logically produces faith; it does not respond to it.
-
Along with 1000's of other people.

The Bible is clear a person does not have in them a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.” (regeneration) and then they take a drink of whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. (belief in Jesus)

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Pope Leo XIV Says “No One Possesses the Entire Truth”

This sounds modernist.

"Modernist" is relative.

This is the great Sufi Philosopher Ibn Al Arabi from about 800 years ago

Do not praise your own faith exclusively so that you disbelieve all the rest. If you do this you will miss much good. Nay, you will miss the whole truth of the matter. God, the Omniscient and the Omnipresent, cannot be confined to any one creed, for He says in the Quran, wheresoever ye turn, there is the face of Allah. Everybody praises what he knows. His God is his own creature, and in praising it, he praises himself. Which he would not do if he were just, for his dislike is based on ignorance.
So it sounds like Southside Bobby is just quoting what seems to be rather established Abrahamic monotheistic thought on the matter.
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So.....did your insurance premium go up?

Companies are still subsidizing employee healthcare and the government isn't, at least not at the same rates as before. That's what the whole shutdown is about. Eventually it will affect everyone tho if people drop coverage and/or hospitals are getting reimbursed at the same rates. Fewer people in the pool to offset costs.
We ware addressing the costs in total - subsidized and unsubsidized parts.

The country currently spends 1.7 Trillion dollars on Health care - Church and his friends are asking for 1.5 trillion more and saying it is for health care -

They say a picture is worth 1,000 words:


budgert.jpg


You really think we can bring medical up 1,5 trillion over the 1.48 trillion already being spent - where does the money come from?
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Is the Nicene creed supportive of Reformed Theology?

"For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven,
was incarnate from the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried"
My denomination in its local expression really dislikes the atonement and I have been wanting to present source documents to preachers to challenge them. (I have even shown them their own official catechism). Most of our preachers would simply find comfort and support for their liberal theology from this section. What they DON'T like is the Father giving His Son in order in anyway to assuage His anger at our rebellion.
I wish this foundational creed was stronger on Jesus dying for our SINS (our rebellion against God)
Is this a problem for the reformed. or can we just say that this creed was put together in response to the attacks on the person of Christ rather than His work?
The excerpt that you provided seems to be a bit more of a paraphrase than a translation; this is a bit closer to the original language; from Lutheran Service Book:

" who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate. He suffered and was buried."

If it is their liberal theology that is your biggest concern (commendable), I wonder how they would view the Athanasius Creed; let's look at what it says...

35 For as the rational soul and flesh is one
man, so God and man is one Christ,
36 who suffered for our salvation,
descended into hell, rose again the
third day from the dead,
37 ascended into heaven, and is seated at
the right hand of the Father, God
Almighty, from whence He will
come to judge the living and the
dead.
38 At His coming all people will rise again
with their bodies and give an account
concerning their own deeds.
39 And those who have done good will
enter into eternal life, and those who
have done evil into eternal fire.
40 This is the catholic faith; whoever does
not believe it faithfully and firmly
cannot be saved.


I see liberalism as one of the greatest threats the Church is facing; pretty much secular universalism in some of the once steadfast denominations and synods.

All three Creeds are still held by the Catholic Church and the Confessional Lutheran Churches, the liberal Lutherans have excluded the Nicen Creed, and there are lots of "gender neutral" versions in circulation.

Even here at CF the standard for orthodox Christian belief has been the very Biblical Nicene Creed.

Remember that "Jolly old St. Nick" was at the council of Nicea along with Athanasias, and St. Nicholas was expelled for punching the heretic Arius in the mouth; he was readmitted at the recommendation of Athanasias, Arius was forced to confess and recant, which he did, but then reverted back to his heresy.

I love history!

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