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Stopped_lurking · Sep 10, 2025

HARK! said:
None of these people successfully entered the US illegally.

The CBP can of course not give a number for those they failed to stop, even if the known border crossing attempts 2025 is only 10% compared with 2024 the number of successful attempts is not zero. My guess is that the hardened would-be criminals are those hardest to deter.

A New Dawn · Sep 10, 2025

NewLifeInChristJesus said:
That's a circular argument. But it breaks down at one point in the circle. He wouldn't call on us to believe if it was something He granted to some and witheld from others. It is cynical to think that He calls on people everywhere to repent/believe/turn from sin to God if He had already prevented some large portion of the human population from doing so. And it contradicts solid Scriptual evidence that He wants everyone to be saved. So, no, I did not prove your point by saying that He tells us we need to believe.

I’m sorry, where do you get the idea that He wouldn’t call on us to believe if it was given to some to hear and withheld from others. JESUS said that very thing when He started teaching in parables.

Mark 4:10-12 (NASB95) 10 As soon as He was alone, His followers, along with the twelve, began asking Him about the parables. 11 And He was saying to them, “To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God, but those who are outside get everything in parables, 12 so that WHILE SEEING, THEY MAY SEE AND NOT PERCEIVE, AND WHILE HEARING, THEY MAY HEAR AND NOT UNDERSTAND, OTHERWISE THEY MIGHT RETURN AND BE FORGIVEN.”
(emphasis not mine)

Delvianna · Sep 10, 2025

Honestly I've come across the opposite. That the majority of Christians I've run into believe in prophecy for today but they run off with it and think everything is from God and never test the spirits. When you critique their dream/vision/word, they get defensive and quote Acts 2.

I want to say too that I'm thankful that you mentioned prophecy just isn't about telling the future. A "prophet" is someone who repeats what the Lord tells them and that can be from corrections, warnings or comfort. Not a lot of people consider that and only associate prophecy with foretelling the future. I do believe prophecy is around today, its just not limited like it was to biblical times where certain people were called and recognized.

A New Dawn · Sep 10, 2025

7thKeeper said:
Umm... No, that is very very VERY wrong. Because every vote counts, both sides would need to court every possible vote everywhere. It literally would mean both parties would have to take everyone into consideration.

And again, this applies only the presidency, I still do not understand why you keep sticking to that as if it's the only thing that matters. As if there's no representation through the Senate and Congress.

First, the left generally ignores the flyover states. Not always, but generally. And second, the president is elected by the electoral vote, and while it is Congress that passes bills, it is the president that signs them into law. Without having equal distribution between parties, as president, major parts of the nation have no national support. We also see how certain presidents, generally on the left, are light on crime, and on upholding the law, in general, have left he citizens of this country living in fear and often felt targeted, themselves, by administration if they speak out on how they feel. The president’s only job is to protect the citizens of the United States from enemies both foreign and domestic, and the right is better at doing that than the left.

bling · Sep 10, 2025

A New Dawn said:
OR it could mean what it says in relation to a fallen world.

I am not sure why people assume when we talk about a fallen world that we are talking about being responsible for Adam’s sin. We are not talking about that at all. We are responsible only for our own sin, the only thing Adam has to do with the conversation is that he is responsible for sin being in the world. He paid for his sin, but that doesn’t change the fact that sin is now in the world and we all must be responsible for the sin we commit.

To better understand the concept of the fall, there is the Genesis 3 passage and Romans 5 and 1 Corinthians 15 that speaks to how that event impacted the world.

The Bible is silent on the state of babies, so I am not going to go out on a limb on this, BUT we need to remember that they are also born into a fallen world. And a child doesn’t stay a baby for long.

God defines what is sin and not sin and provides that knowledge to man. For Adam and Eve, it was not a sin to: lust, covet, avoid seeking wise council, Eve not helping Adam and really do or think anything other than physically eatting the fruit of the tree of knowledge. "Knowledge" of Good and Evil made all these sins without having make the world into a "fallen" world.

Fervent · Sep 10, 2025

childeye 2 said:
It is astute of you to notice that it was probably my question to another poster that was the impetus to rephrase the original question into a simpler form. That part of your assessment, I am forced to agree with.

As I understand it, to write a workable algorithm one has to ask the right questions.

So, likewise, while my turn of the question grossly deviated from the authors original intent, it's not like I didn't see there was more than one inference that could be drawn from the original format which was designed to be rhetorical.

That observation was included in my initial response -->"If I say yes, would you believe me?" -> Indicates I knew the poster anticipated a no response -> and that "Yes" was not the answer he was anticipating-> which is why I also provided a qualifier ---> "Yes, I do think people must question their beliefs on this forum -> whenever correction is taking place."

True enough

childeye 2 said:
I understand that even though I'm not a mathematician. I study semantics particular to psycholinguistics. So, for me axioms exist in semantical frameworks constructed using true dichotomies that I can safely reason upon through both induction and deduction.

This sounds like gobbledy gook.

childeye 2 said:
Sure. But any sound reasoning would establish an equilibrium. For example, I wouldn't trust in ignorance.

Equilibrium? What does that mean in the context of the circular justification needed to engage with inductive reasoning?

childeye 2 said:
The sentiment 'Trustworthy' is contained in the term God. God = Eternal power = Has no beginning and no end = Everlasting = Source of the energy that formed all things = Real = Reality =Truth = Trustworthy.

So you're saying all of those things are tautological?

childeye 2 said:
The sentiments in these dichotomies are relative to God --> True/false, Knowledge/ignorance, Honesty/dishonesty, Moral/immoral, Faithful/faithless, Compassionate/uncompassionate, Reasonable/unreasonable, Heartful/heartless, Kindness/unkindness, Merciful/merciless, Goodness/wickedness, Gracious/disgraceful.

Ok?

childeye 2 said:
But motives are a fact of reality and can be observed.

Observed by who?

childeye 2 said:
Facts to me are dictated by reality, not imagined. Subsequently, IF someone in reality lied so as to deceive and no one found out, it would still qualify as a fact of reality that the person lied with a motive to deceive even IF no one saw it.

Sure, but our perception of that reality is skewed by our point of view. My earlier example of sight remains a good example, since our vision is corrected(inverted and details filled in) compared to the stimuli the eyes respond to.

childeye 2 said:
IF someone believed a lie and then reasoned upon it, their conclusiongs will contain a deviance from the truth which will be reflected in their actions.

childeye 2 said:
I don't know what issue you expect me to find with the trilemma. The term skepticism falls in line under the term 'distrust' which is the negative in this objectively true dichotomy Trust/distrust. Objectively skepticism/cynicism would point to the Eternal in its denial thereof. Subjectively, skepticism is necessary to not be fooled into believing something that isn't true.

I don't expect you to find any issue, I keep bringing it up in reference to your dogmatic approach to knowledge. Philosophical skepticism has nothing to do with trust/distrust, since it is a means to bring us to the end of ourselves; which is often required before we can see God.

NewLifeInChristJesus · Sep 10, 2025

A New Dawn said:
So, do you realize that you just proved my point? Precisely that believing in Jesus is the work of God. And giving us ears to hear (and eyes to see) is one of the ways that happens.

That's a circular argument. But it breaks down at one point in the circle. He wouldn't call on us to believe if it was something He granted to some and witheld from others. It is cynical to think that He calls on people everywhere to repent/believe/turn from sin to God if He had already prevented some large portion of the human population from doing so. And it contradicts solid Scriptual evidence that He wants everyone to be saved. So, no, I did not prove your point by saying that He tells us we need to believe.

Clare73 · Sep 10, 2025

fhansen said:
Where there's error, it always lies in humans. The point is that there's no such thing as 100% knowledge that one will have eternal life-

I'm sure you'll understand if I take God at his word in Ro 8:16, 23, 2 Co 1:22, 5:5, Eph 1:13, 14, rather than overriding it with your word.

Nor did you answer my question regarding your having the witness stated by Paul in Ro 8:16, 2 Co 1:22, 5:5.

Strong in Him · Sep 10, 2025

concretecamper said:
You quoted Scripture and then added on your 2 cents to the verse. That is adding to Scripture.

"Paul tells us to offer our bodies as a true and living sacrifice - which is our spiritual worship, Romans 12:1"

Paul doesn't say anything about Spiritual worship in that verse.

He does in the ESV

Therefore I urge you, brothers, on account of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.

NIV

Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship

NLT

And so, dear brothers and sisters,a I plead with you to give your bodies to God because of all he has done for you. Let them be a living and holy sacrifice—the kind he will find acceptable. This is truly the way to worship him.

Amplified

Therefore I urge you, Romans 12 Amplified Biblebrothers and sisters, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies [dedicating all of yourselves, set apart] as a living sacrifice, holy and well-pleasing to God, which is your rational (logical, intelligent) act of worship.

Why didn't you consider other translations of Scripture before accusing me of adding to God's word?

Clare73 · Sep 10, 2025

Strong in Him said:
Revelation is the end of the Bible - but whatever.
You want me to write several long posts explaining who God is?

I give up. . .do I?

Strong in Him said:
Revelation is the end of the Bible - but whatever.
You want me to write several long posts explaining who God is?
Look it up for yourself - or better still, look at Jesus.
There isn't enough space and I haven't enough time.
I showed you what pertains to our discussion; that God is love, that he is patient, merciful, compassionate, forgiving etc.
Which means that I do not believe he would choose Judas, whom he knew to be a devil, give him the ability to drive out demons (which Jesus said is impossible) and then, when Judas had fulfilled God's purposes - presumably betraying Jesus - toss him aside and condemn him.

That is the impression I had after reading your posts. I asked a few times if you were saying that God is like this and got no answer.

What I said is entirely Scriptural and entirely relevant.
The message I've been getting from this recent discussion is that Hebrews 6 can be applied, retrospectively, to Judas, because Judas was evil, a devil and was never saved. I asked why Jesus would have deliberately chosen someone he knew was a devil - i.e. belongs to Satan - how he, who is light, could have fellowship with darkness and why he would have given him power to perform miracles.
Your answer was this this was all part of God's purpose - which suggested that God deliberately chose evil to fulfil his plan of salvation and then got rid of Judas when he didn't need him any longer.

I don't believe that Judas was evil from the beginning and Jesus deliberately chose to have fellowship with a devil.
I don't believe that he gave a devil power to cast out demons, as he had taught that Satan cannot drive out Satan.
I don't believe that Judas was one of the 12 only because God "needed" someone who would betray Jesus and bring about the cross.
I am not sure, although I don't know, that Judas deliberately turned away from, and rejected Jesus. I think it possible that he believed Jesus was the Messiah, everyone knew the Messiah would be a military king who would defeat the Romans and he tried to force Jesus to fight back when he was arrested.
I believe these things because a) I have read various commentaries and b) this fits with the God of amazing love and endless compassion and forgiveness who I know, trust in and serve.

I also don't think that Hebrews 6 can be applied to Judas - but as he, and everyone else, is dead, it doesn't matter.

Strong in Him said:
Look it up for yourself - or better still, look at Jesus.
There isn't enough space and I haven't enough time.
I showed you what pertains to our discussion; that God is love, that he is patient, merciful, compassionate, forgiving etc.
Which means that I do not believe he would choose Judas, whom he knew to be a devil, give him the ability to drive out demons (which Jesus said is impossible) and then, when Judas had fulfilled God's purposes - presumably betraying Jesus - toss him aside and condemn him. That is the impression I had after reading your posts. I asked a few times if you were saying that God is like this and got no answer.

Which impression I got from Jesus (Mt 26:24).

HARK! · Sep 10, 2025

Stopped_lurking said:
This is still higher than the numbers who escape from prisons. Basically, all that goes missing from prison do so when on leave. Can those who are to be deported even go on leave? Also these are not the numbers of those who successfully enter the US illegally.

None of these people successfully entered the US illegally.
How many gottaways were there for August of 2025?

Garcia would be very foolish to give up his freedom in Swaziland, to take the extremely high risk of attempting to eneter the US again. The penalties are more severe for repeat offenders.

A New Dawn · Sep 10, 2025

The Barbarian said:
The KKK held a parade to celebrate his election. That doesn't make him Grand Dragon. It merely means that the KKK supports Trump and is ideas.

There was a KKK order that supported Hillary Clinton, too, when she ran. So it literally means nothing if the KKK supports you.

fhansen · Sep 10, 2025

Mercy Shown said:
but what if true faith results in all of the rest of the things you have mentioned. What if all of the rest of the things you mention are the out growth of saving faith?

Faith is all about acknowledging God's existence, His mercy, His love, His goodness, His trustworthiness, resulting in reconciliation with Him. It's to accept God as our God again, reversing, within ourselves, the alienation from God that was initiated for humankind by Adam in Eden. And we do that when we see and accept God as revealed through his Son who is the "express image of God", God incarnate. And as John 15 tells us, if we remain in Him we will produce much good fruit, and if we don't we're like branches that will be gathered up and put into the fire and burned. "Apart from me you can do nothing", John 15:5.

So faith is to be engrafted into the Vine. From that relationship, which is how man was created to be to begin with, hope and love will result as well, with love being the most important as per 1 Cor 13. Love is the real motivator behind good fruit. This is all something that we must participate in and grow in, and persevere in according to the Bible. If our faith, hope, and love are real, then our lives will show it. We can also fail to remain in Him, to walk in the Spirit; we can bury the gifts given as per the parable of the talents, we can return to the flesh in which case bad fruit will result.

The Liturgist · Sep 10, 2025

RileyG said:
Lord have mercy!

Thank you Riley.

The Liturgist · Sep 10, 2025

SabbathBlessings said:
I already stated what I believe, there is one church and the Bible tells us what His church is made up of Rev 14:12. Please stop trying to goad me.

I’m not trying to goad you, I just wish to clarify you are Nicene lest I waste a great deal of time explaining the teaching ministry of the Church and why it is needed to communicate the contents and meaning of the Creed. It sounds like you are so we will proceed on that assumption.

But first, I want to make sure you realize that the word “Catholic” does not automatically refer to the RCC.

Hentenza · Sep 10, 2025

DaisyDay said:
Are you sure?

Yep

DaisyDay said:
That makes no sense whatsoever.

Not surprised,

DaisyDay said:
As far as I have ever heard tell, undercover cops fully expose their faces while working EXCEPT when testifying. The idea of being undercover is to fit in with the criminals and wearing a mask would sort of preclude that. They generally don't wear their badges while undercover because that would give away that they are law enforcement, but they also don't participate in the actual arrests leaving that part to the other cops, even going so far as to appear to be arrested themselves.

Sure but they cover their faces outside for more than just testifying. I have a good friend, now retired, that worked as an undercover cop for the DEA. He has some great stories. Have you ever been an undercover cop or know someone that was one? Maybe we could swap stories.

DaisyDay said:
One big problem with ICE agents being masked in unmarked cars while nabbing people off the street is that it has opened the door for bad actors pretending to be ICE nabbing other people off the street. The longer this goes on, the more of a problem it creates.

There are scammers everywhere. There are even police impersonators causing problems. I don’t see the cops changing their procedures because of them.

BTW, I don’t agree with the latest Supreme Court ruling allowing them discretionary powers to stop anyone without probable cause.

DaisyDay said:
Judges and prosecutors more and more are getting doxxed, but the solution is NOT to have masked, anonymous judges with masked anonymous prosecutors and masked anonymous jurors. Public servants should be public.

The solution for ICE agents in the field being followed by lunatic activists assaulting them by throwing rocks and other objects, calling them derogatory names, and threatening to put them and their families in danger is to continue covering themselves to protect their identities. It would also help if the far left had respect for federal agents and denounce the violence against them.

7thKeeper · Sep 10, 2025

A New Dawn said:
Yes, I understand how popular elections work. However this past election was an exception to the rule in that sooo many people were upset with Biden’s policies and the state of the union, and with a candidate that couldn’t elucidate anything she saw wrong with Biden’s policies and wouldn’t change anything, that many voted against their own party. In a normal presidential election year, the democrat candidate normally wins the popular election, as I said above, because of the sheer population of the top 4 or 5 blue states. Meaning, drumroll please, if it was left to the popular vote, the concerns of the vast majority of the country, the portions the left doesn’t care about and often has disdain for, are ignored.

Umm... No, that is very very VERY wrong. Because every vote counts, both sides would need to court every possible vote everywhere. It literally would mean both parties would have to take everyone into consideration.

And again, this applies only the presidency, I still do not understand why you keep sticking to that as if it's the only thing that matters. As if there's no representation through the Senate and Congress.

A New Dawn · Sep 10, 2025

NewLifeInChristJesus said:
That's an odd saying to use to make your point. Do you have anything more explicit than that? The fact that God calls on everyone to believe in Jesus is backed up with many verses that say it explicityly (e.g., John 6:29). So the weight of the evidence is not in your favor.

So, do you realize that you just proved my point? Precisely that believing in Jesus is the work of God. And giving us ears to hear (and eyes to see) is one of the ways that happens.

DaisyDay · Sep 10, 2025

durangodawood said:
I would have thought it was the clunky fashion sense.

My guess would've been the habit of speaking English sloooowwwwwly and LOUDLY to those who don't speak English as well as our outsized sense of entitlement and being generally outsized.

Lukaris · Sep 10, 2025

Pommer said:
Drug dealers are looking to sell their wares…they’re business-folk, with an illegal product (to be sure), but they don’t want their customers to die…while it’s horrible that they’re in this “business” it doesn’t make them “terrorists“.

Terrorists have a goal that they want to achieve by the use of their terrorism; the only goal of drug dealers is to get dollars into their own pockets.

(I know that you’re not likely to change your opinion about them being “terrorists”; that’s fine, (good even), but we all know it’s just rhetorical cover for being ruthless.)

The cartels are drug dealers and they care who lives or dies? Are competing cartels just otherwise business competitors like Walmart and Target? I have deep concerns about what was done to this drug vessel. I also have deep concerns about drug cartels gaining a stronger foothold in the US. We have enough crime the way it is ( I know it’s always perpetually decreasing somehow).

Cartels seem to basically run different areas of Mexico where crime is decreasing also

Google Search

As crime “decreases”, it sure is a bloody progression in Mexico and it sure ain’t pretty in the US either.

20 bodies, some decapitated, found in part of Mexico where factions of Sinaloa cartel are fighting each other

Violence has soared in Sinaloa since the capture in the U.S. of cartel co-founder Ismael "El Mayo" Zambada almost a year ago.

www.cbsnews.com

There are also many creative & magical ways to reduce crime maybe as it even doesn’t exist if the right politics prevail.

Mamdani means to ax the NYPD’s gang database — and to boost crimes that hit minorities most

NYPD boss Jessica Tisch and her rank and file keep scoring impressive wins against crime, thanks in no small part to the department’s gang database.

nypost.com

Delvianna · Sep 10, 2025

What a well thought out post. I do agree with a lot of your points but I think there are bigger issues at play here. The church in and of itself is divided among different denominations. We as a group, have allowed this to happen. "You don't agree with my theology, well I'll start a new church!" The love of truth has been replaced with acceptance of different scriptural interpretations and faith practices. Instead of sticking together to find, debate and research to find common ground, we have divided ourselves. A divided structure cannot stand.

I am one of those people who left the church and it's because I'm tired of coming across luke-warm, hypocritical people who call themselves "Christian". Pastors who stand on a stage and preach about love, walking with Christ and a need to spread the gospel, while the second he's done preaching, he leaves to go watch the football game. The church claims they help the homeless due to their church run 2nd hand store, but when I send the homeless TO them for supplies, they are rejected and turned away. Homeless, who show up for food during a church potluck are escorted off property from security.

This isn't just about getting together to pray with others, when atheists have better fruit than a lot of "Christians". There is no strict order anymore. The founding 12 would get together and make sure all are in agreement when imposing rules and then they taught the new church leaders that Paul started, to be just as strict. The rampant false teachers, false prophets, pride centered organizations are allowed to continue unhindered. Until we clean up the church mess that we started, there is NO way we as a group can go back how the original intent of the church was supposed to be when we can't even agree theologically.

The Liturgist · Sep 10, 2025

jamiec said:
but Christ, Who is worth a universe of bibles.

As St. John wrote.

The Liturgist · Sep 10, 2025

Lukaris said:
I believe much of our reverence of the Virgin Mary originated from the Jewish praises given to the martyred mother, her 7 sons, & Eleazar the priest. These are in 2 Maccabees 7 & the long memorial writing of 4th Maccabees.

Loading…

jwa.org

Do you think 2 Maccabees 7 is typological prophecy of the Theotokos?

The Liturgist · Sep 10, 2025

concretecamper said:
Why should Catholic worry about if protestants are offended about the truth?

Well ideally as an Orthodox Catholic I want to convert them - and lately we are, with 18% annual growth rate per year in some parishes.

If Pope Leo XiV restored and bolstered summorum pontificum by making a vernacular translation of the Tridentine Mass with Gregorian chant the normal form of the Roman Mass and deposed the liberal bishops (particularly the Germans and Irish, ideally putting the ethnic German Kazakh Bishop Athanasius Schneider as the locum tenems of the German church and Raymond Cardinal Burke as locum tenems of the Irish church, it could experience the same growth).

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