BUSTED - 12 False theories refuted:

[Strong in Him]

Actually not many claim to be Christ now. There were a few, soon after Jeus' Ascension.

Exactly, which suggests it was written to a certain time.
Not many claim to be the Messiah now, in the 21st century western world. Plenty of people claim they have special knowledge and know the date of Jesus' return.

You and most people don't want to know about it. To your distress when things get rough.

That's what you say.

Re Zechariah's barrel, you reject a sensible and feasible idea and fail to provide any plausible explanation for it.

It's not a "sensible and feasible idea"; it's ludicrous.
Maybe try reading the text?

5 I looked again, and there before me was a flying scroll.

2 He asked me, “What do you see?”

I answered, “I see a flying scroll, twenty cubits long and ten cubits wide.[a]”

So, Zechariah looked and there was a flying scroll before him.
"Scroll" (NIV, NASB, NRSV. The KJV and a couple of other have "roll") suggests a message. And this scroll did indeed have writing on it.

3 And he said to me, “This is the curse that is going out over the whole land; for according to what it says on one side, every thief will be banished, and according to what it says on the other, everyone who swears falsely will be banished.

There was writing on both sides of this scroll - it was a long message.
According to what it said on one side, "every thief will be banished". According to what was on the other side of the scroll, "everyone who swears falsely will be banished".
As this is a message, it must have been sent by someone, to someone else.

4 The Lord Almighty declares, ‘I will send it out, and it will enter the house of the thief and the house of anyone who swears falsely by my name. It will remain in that house and destroy it completely, both its timbers and its stones.’”

So the Lord was sending out this message and it would go to the house of the thief and the house of anyone who swore falsely.
This message from the Lord would remain in that house and destroy it completely.

The Woman in a Basket​

5 Then the angel who was speaking to me came forward and said to me, “Look up and see what is appearing.”

Something else - not the scroll - was appearing.

6 I asked, “What is it?”

He replied, “It is a basket.”

"Basket", NIV. The NKJ has a note saying that the word is "Ephah", a measuring container.

And he added, “This is the iniquity[b] of the people throughout the land.”

It sounds like someone was measuring, noting or keeping count of the sin in the land.

7 Then the cover of lead was raised, and there in the basket sat a woman!

It sound like this is the lid of the basket/measuring container. The cover was raised and there was a woman inside.
The text does not say that this cover went around/enclosed/covered the whole of the basket, like it was wrapped up.

8 He said, “This is wickedness,” and he pushed her back into the basket and pushed its lead cover down on it.

What is wickedness - the woman? Why did she represent wickedness? We aren't told - we only know that the "wickedness" was pushed back inside the basket/measuring container.

You really need to do a lot of eisegesis and have a lot of imagination to make that passage say; "Zechariah 5 prophesies that Iran will have a nuclear bomb."

Yes; I noticed.

You noticed that I'm biased because I don't like it when people rewrite Scripture and then tell me that I am wrong because I don't agree with them?
Well, that's a start.

 

[keras]

It's not a "sensible and feasible idea"; it's ludicrous.

Basically then; you reject the fact that the end time Prophesies are for us, who are the people that have seen the 'fig tree', that is Judah, re-established in part of the Holy Land. Matthew 24:32-34
Jesus then said: ....then you will know the end is near, at the very door. Truely, I tell you, the generation who sees this, will live to see it all.

You noticed that I'm biased because I don't like it when people rewrite Scripture and then tell me that I am wrong because I don't agree with them?

What I notice is how people dislike any idea that they might be involved in the frightening and dramatic end time things, as God has informed us thru His Prophets. They have no clue about what must happen, which is an indictment against them for rejecting scripture.

 

[Strong in Him]

They have no clue about what must happen, which is an indictment against them for rejecting scripture.

I spent a considerable amount of time quoting Zechariah 5, looking up various words and explaining what was happening, because you wanted a "plausible explanation" for it.
You haven't even addressed my comments. You haven't said why you were teaching that the flying scroll was covered in lead, when in fact it was the basket which had a lid made of lead. You haven't explained the writing on both sides of the scroll, the woman inside the basket or the "wickedness" that the angel spoke of.
You have not said either, "that's a good explanation, I will consider it. Thank you for your attention to the matter", nor "I think I may have jumped to conclusions about the scroll and the basket, I will look at it again."

It seems to me that you read my post, realized you have been wrong about Zec 5, are far to embarrassed/proud to say so and are trying to change the subject by quoting only the bits of my post that do not relate to that chapter.
So don't talk about other people rejecting Scripture.

 

[keras]

It seems to me that you read my post, realized you have been wrong about Zec 5, are far to embarrassed/proud to say so

I can assure you; that is not the case.
I confirm my belief that Zechariah 5 is talking about a nuke tipped ballistic missile. One, or more of which Iran will soon attempt to fire into Israel.
It will be the Lord who will send a powerful Electro Magnetic Pulse from the sun, that will cause them to explode on the launch pad. Psalms 11:4-6, Psalms 7:12-16, Jeremiah 49:35-37, Habakkuk 3:3-7 & 12-14

That Pulse and the following mass of Superheated Hydrogen plasma, will be the Sixth Seal event, the world changer which commences all the end time Prophesies.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Jesus told the Disciples that He would send the Holy Spirit.
He remains in heaven, on the righthand of God.

Matthew 28:20

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Hebrews 13:5

Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

Shouldn't you put in a rewrite request? ^^^

But then again, maybe we aren't even here:

Eph. 2:
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

 

[Strong in Him]

I can assure you; that is not the case.

Maybe not. But you haven't addressed my post about what the text of Zechariah 5 actually says.
The scroll is not different from the basket/measuring container, as you said in post #209. This basket appeared from somewhere, it was not flying.
A lead lid/cover does not indicate the presence of radio active material - there was a woman inside.

I confirm my belief that Zechariah 5 is talking about a nuke tipped ballistic missile.

And I confirm my belief that you haven't read the Scripture properly and are reading into it what you want to read into it.
The basket/container was carried off to Babylon where a house would be built for it.
You haven't said anything about what the basket represented or why it had a woman in it.
You haven't said why the scroll was going to enter a house to destroy it and the basket was going to have a house built for it.

It will be the Lord who will send a powerful Electro Magnetic Pulse from the sun, that will cause them to explode on the launch pad. Psalms 11:4-6, Psalms 7:12-16, Jeremiah 49:35-37, Habakkuk 3:3-7 & 12-14

None of which is even hinted at in Zechariah 5. He would not have known about such things; you are reading into it.

 

[The Liturgist]

Sadly; all of them and more, are taught in Church's and Seminaries.

Just out of curiosity where did you learn all of this, and how many Christians have you met who share all of your eschatological convictions?

Because I’m not aware of any who embrace a specific psuedo-dispensationalist view of the Third Temple and soul sleep and chiliasm, its a bit like an odd hybrid of premillenial dispensationalism, SDA theology and Pelagianism.

The closest group I saw to this also adhered to something like British Israelitism and Arianism (who deny the incarnation, that Jesus Christ is fully God and fully Man, the second uncreated person of the Trinity, begotten of the Father before all ages, of one essence with the unoriginate Father and the Holy Spirit our comforter and paraclete). And by group, I should add, I don’t know their name, but we had two of them here at one time.

 

[Ed Parenteau]

Heaven is where God is and that means He is everywhere.
The 2W are told to 'Come up here'. As Jesus is right then in the process of Returning in glory, they will go up into the clouds, then to Jerusalem, along with 'all who remain' - 1 Thess 4:17

I repeat: None of the verses you think mean people will go to live in heaven, actually say that.
Revelation 7:15-17 is a Prophecy about the Eternal state, after the final Judgement. Proved by how it is then when God will wipe away every tear; Rev 21:4

But it does say that.
NOTHING refutes the statement of Jesus that we never go to heaven, but after everything is all over, God and heaven, will come to us. Revelation 21:1-7

Well then, it is your own very personal private interpretation because what you claim clearly doesn't say "no one goes to heaven". Are you saying "no one hath gone to heaven" (Perfect tense) means the same as "no one goes to heaven"(present tense)? Where's the future tense "no one will ever go to heaven".
On the other hand, you don't even attempt to disprove the unchanged scripture I have given you. Your claim is that it doesn't say we go live in heaven, but it literally does in many different ways.

Your claim means that we'll always be in the world but not of the world whereas Jesus who was not of the world went eternally to the father in heaven and when Jesus says "In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?"
Explain where is that place?

 

[keras]

Shouldn't you put in a rewrite request?

No.
Jesus said He would be with us until the end of the age. Matthew 28:20 This is obviously; in a Spiritual sense.
It also blows the 'rapture to heaven' theory into the rubbish bin.

 

[keras]

None of which is even hinted at in Zechariah 5. He would not have known about such things; you are reading into it.

That is why Zechariah used words like 'scroll' and 'barrel'. They both refer to the same thing; A nuke loaded missile, which Zechariah and everyone on earth up until now, couldn't comprehend.
Surely people can see how Irans crazy Mullah's are flat out getting these things ready, right now? They have been humiliated and damaged, but not stopped in their avowed intent to wipe Israel off the map.

Life on this world is going to get very interesting!

 

[Strong in Him]

That is why Zechariah used words like 'scroll' and 'barrel'. They both refer to the same thing;

No, they don't.
The scroll was flying and had writing on it condemning thieves and liars.
The basket (which I'm sure is a different word) had a woman inside it.

You're ignoring Scripture and just claiming it says what you want it to say. That's very disappointing for someone who says they study Scripture.

A nuke loaded missile, which Zechariah and everyone on earth up until now, couldn't comprehend.

Nope.

Surely people can see how Irans crazy Mullah's are flat out getting these things ready, right now? They have been humiliated and damaged, but not stopped in their avowed intent to wipe Israel off the map.

Maybe.
It's nothing to do with Zechariah.

 

[keras]

Just out of curiosity where did you learn all of this, and how many Christians have you met who share all of your eschatological convictions?

The Lord gave me a vision, when my wife and I lived in the Holy Land; 2010-2012.
He inspired me to write out the Bible Prophesies and to help explain them in short articles. All available free at my website; logostelos.info

I know of no one who fully supports my beliefs. This doesn't concern me, as it is only the Holy Spirit, who finally gives understanding of Gods plans.
People who choose to believe theories and doctrines which do not have scriptural support, cannot comprehend the truths of our future.

Because I’m not aware of any who embrace a specific psuedo-dispensationalist view of the Third Temple and soul sleep and chiliasm, its a bit like an odd hybrid of premillenial dispensationalism, SDA theology and Pelagianism.

I have nothing to do with any of those beliefs and 'isms'.

 

[keras]

Well then, it is your own very personal private interpretation because what you claim clearly doesn't say "no one goes to heaven". Are you saying "no one hath gone to heaven" (Perfect tense) means the same as "no one goes to heaven"(present tense)? Where's the future tense "no one will ever go to heaven".

Humans going to live in heaven, has never been Gods plan. We were made to inhabit the earth and God has angels in heaven. Isaiah 45:18
What earthly use are we in heaven?

Explain where is that place?

John 14:1-4, is a Prophecy about the new earth, the Eternal state that comes after the final Judgement. Revelation 21:1-7

 

[keras]

The scroll was flying and had writing on it condemning thieves and liars.
The basket (which I'm sure is a different word) had a woman inside it.

Scrolls do not fly. The 'woman' is not a female human, but a personification of Wickedness.
Both 'scroll' and 'barrel', are referring to the same object. It flies through the air, as Zechariah saw.

Maybe.
It's nothing to do with Zechariah.

It is all to do with Gods plans for His Creation and His peoples.
God reset human civilization before and He has plainly told us He intends to do it again.

Just something for all nay-sayers to laugh about: We are now 40 days from the Day when the Lord could send His fiery wrath. There has been 1999 of these special Days since Jesus commenced His Ministry. The Prophet Haggai mentions that Day three times.

 

[Strong in Him]

Scrolls do not fly.

They do if they are symbolizing an urgent message.

The 'woman' is not a female human, but a personification of Wickedness.

You say that; Scripture doesn't.
Why did the angel push the wickedness back into the basket?
Why can a woman symbolize wickedness but a scroll can't symbolize an urgent message?

Just something for all nay-sayers to laugh about:

What is; the fact that you can't read Scripture? Trust me, I'm not laughing.

We are now 40 days from the Day when the Lord could send His fiery wrath. There has been 1999 of these special Days since Jesus commenced His Ministry. The Prophet Haggai mentions that Day three times.

And if he doesn't, no doubt you'll have another explanation for that?

 

[keras]

They do if they are symbolizing an urgent message.

Written on what?
Zechariah tells us: a round tube shaped object that can fly.

Why did the angel push the wickedness back into the basket?

Because it symbolises nuclear radiation. Proved by the lead cover.

the fact that you can't read Scripture?

I read and understand the Prophesies to be meaningful and illuminating, not worthless and only adding to the confusion.

And if he doesn't, no doubt you'll have another explanation for that?

It could be next year.
All in Gods good timing.

 

[Strong in Him]

Written on what?

Written on the scroll.
I doubt very much that the Hebrew words for scroll and basket are the same, or the translators would not have translated them differently.
And if different words are used, any case that you think you had, falls apart.

Zechariah tells us:

In your interpretation of the word, maybe.

Because it symbolises nuclear radiation. Proved by the lead cover.

In your interpretation of the word, anything seems possible.
The lead cover does not prove nuclear radiation. The cover does not encase the entire basket but covers the opening only. The angel lifted the cover to see what was inside; it did not dismantle the cover with a chainsaw.

I read and understand the Prophesies to be meaningful and illuminating, not worthless and only adding to the confusion.

Your interpretation of Zechariah 5 is about as clear as mud.
It doesn't add to my confusion at all, because I don't accept it, (your interpretation.)

The fact is that i) almost no one agrees with your interpretations of Scripture, ii) you insist that anyone who doesn't listen to you is wrong, iii) I believe that if God were to give a vision that had global significance he would confirm it to at least one other person, iv) he would never contradict Scripture and v) you have made Zec 5 say what you want it to say to fit your beliefs. None of this gives m any confidence at all that other teachings of your are correct.

If you'd at least had the humility to say, "I believe that Zechariah 5 teaches and I believe this because ........", and/or "this is the vision I believe I received; ask the Lord to confirm to you if it is correct", that would be slightly better. I would still reject your mangled version of Zec 5 but at least you would not be setting yourself up as some infallible mystic and devout student of the word. That, however, is how it comes across.

It could be next year.

You thought it could have been in 2012.

1 Corinthians 14:8, "if the trumpet does not sound a clear note, who will get ready for battle?"
In other words, if your message is confused/wrong, who will listen and take note? It seems you have found no one who even agrees with you.

All in Gods good timing.

A very "spiritual" way of saying "I don't know and could be wrong."

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

No.
Jesus said He would be with us until the end of the age. Matthew 28:20 This is obviously; in a Spiritual sense

Obviously you're creeping up on the obvious

It also blows the 'rapture to heaven' theory into the rubbish bin.

I'm not into common rapture nonsense either. Preferred sight is blood and guts for the devil and his messengers, whatever that means in the Spiritual sense

 

[keras]

almost no one agrees with your interpretations of Scripture

Actually the fact is that most people simply don't have any beliefs about the Prophesies. All is just ignored or maybe used as examples, like Psalms 23, which does have Prophetic content.

But what I see here, is vehement rejection of a viable interpretation of Zechariah 5. without a sensible or feasible alternative explanation.
You say the lead cover has no significance. Then why is it mentioned?
You say the object that looks like a 'scroll' is not the same as the 'basket', or 'barrel'? But both are round flying objects and what Zec saw in verses 6-11, would have been the placement of the nuke device into the missile.

This interpretation of Zechariah 5:1-11, is proof that God knows the preparations and the outcome of Iran's satanic hatred of Israel and Jeremiah 49:35-37, +, tells us what He intends to do about it.

 

[keras]

Obviously you're creeping up on the obvious

Had Jesus over for a meal lately; have you?

Preferred sight is blood and guts for the devil and his messengers, whatever that means in the Spiritual sense

Jesus tells us, in Revelation 20, - the fate of all the ungodly spirits and peoples.
Why do you make it into a Hollywood spectacle?