GoldenBoy89 said:

Just a simple yes or no would suffice.

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Yeah, facts get so messy, it could disturb a narrative.

Lost Witness said:

Sounds like a lack of unity in such a circumstance.
The pastor has needs just as the flock and the congregation as a whole should support each other.
Or am I misunderstanding?

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You are right on the button.

PM me if you want to privately share more detail - I can sit with you in the dust.

Life can be real tough.

Reluctant Theologian said:

No, by definition 'tradition' is the inertia of what you do/believe/say/teach .. Tradition is not always normative, but can be just descriptive (e.g. it sums up what a particular community does over time). When the normative aspects are addressed it's good to pay attention to the 'why' or the arguments for those norms.

In many communities worldwide in history a common pattern can be observed where what is done repetitively over time because it was practical, eventually is regarded as the norm from which one should not deviate. But those norms should be treated with some reservations I'd say.

Where tradition represents 'solidified and tested agreement or best practices' over time it can be most useful IMHO. But when circumstances change, one should not be afraid to update that unless there is a clear faith- or Bible-based reason not to.

Just MHO.

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Tradition is more like a historic of a given hermeneutical framework.

Many traditional societies do have traditions that are changed. In indigenous societies, for instance, traditions change through sacred disruption. Jesus overturning tables in the temple would be an example of such disruption. It's a symbolic gesture meant to point out the brokenness of a system once deemed sacred.

BPPLEE said:

This thread is about one law enforcement agency failing to help another one, what we’ve seen is providing cover for it, hand waving and justifying it

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Sure this thread is about one specific incident but the larger story around these deportations and more importantly, how ICE are conducting these operations has been brewing for several months now. You’ll notice early in this term there wasn’t quite as much pushback against ICE arrests as we’re seeing now after millions have witnessed for themselves what these agents are doing to people and how they’re going about it. This is a terror campaign where cruelty is the whole point and people aren’t taking it anymore.

o_mlly said:

Root problem:

• Science has extended human life.
• Elder humans require more health care than other demographics.
• The declining birth rates in the West has dramatically shifted the number of "contributors" to the number of "takers".
• Compounding the demand and supply shifts in funding health care, preventable risks like smoking, obesity, poor diet, and substance abuse place further demands funding on our health care system.

So, how much we are taxed or pay for the health care of all will not change the eventual outcome. But lifestyle changes and increasing birth rates would.

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Some of the problems there lie in the fact that so many Americans don't have health insurance at all, or they have inadequate coverage or high deductibles or copays, making doctor visits expensive and prohibitive. If healthcare were provided without having to jump through these hoops (note I'm not saying "free" here), then more people who need to visit a doctor regularly would be able to visit a doctor regularly.

It'd help, certainly.

-- A2SG, substituting ERs for a regular doctor's office isn't a viable medical plan....

eclipsenow said:

First - these are not predictions. They're estimates. Estimates are numbers extrapolated from the government plans. It's a spreadsheet - not a crystal ball. If this - then that. Mathematics. If the government actually does what it has signed into law - then we can expect this outcome for the budget.

Second - a war or new pandemic could massively throw out ALL economic models and budgets.

So where does that leave us?

1. If this - then that. Is the program you are receiving so willingly reliable? Moral? To be endorsed?
2. Other real world disruptions are possible - but usually make matters even worse than predicted!


Unless you can find a credible agency that has actually DEBUNKED where this report reads the BBB wrong - then you're in denial and are magic handwaving.

You fulfilled the cookie meme.

You've eaten the cookie, and are replying with cookie filled fluffy assertions, not cold hard facts and data.​

​

"Smell good, don't they!"​

View attachment 371189

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Predictions is another word for estimates. Please continue to enjoy your liberal cookies because you don't have facts. Instead, you have estimates and predictions. Perhaps you want some kool-aid to go with those liberal cookies?

Such a word is sorely needed, yet Jesus said 'the poor you will alway have with you' and accepted a costly gift.

However Paul speaks of equality among the congregation so no one would be in lack.

Our unloving culture prevents folks from expressing lack and sadly this does get carried into church life also.

Can we revive the elder function of knowing who is in need ???

FAITH-IN-HIM said:

You're saying we should prevent things we can't prove it happens.

Yea, that’s about right. Gop and MAGA wants to stop which doesn’t exist!

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Per the MAGA dictionary, voter fraud means "didn't vote for Trump."

-- A2SG, and that happens a lot more than they like.....

I can't stop myself.

stevevw said:

I am continually correcting these claims only to have them repeated and then a new one already addressed is made lol.

The ‘precise’ class includes the three modern stone vases, which were machined and polished on a lathe, and 11 objects from Matt Beall’s collection.

https://maximus.energy/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/Precision-and-Classification-of-Predynastic-Egyptian-Stone-Vessels_-A-Metrological-Study.pdf

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Matt Beall vases are not Petrie vases. Here is the text about the 19 Petrie vases analysed by Maximus Energy (Precision of the Naqada Period Stone Vessels)

stevevw said:

No they are not, another falsehood. The circularity for example in some places is as near perfect as 0.003mm. Into the micron level. The perpendicularity, paralellism and concentricity is of similar levels in places. The average for these vases is in the micron levels.

Class Averages
The ‘PRECISE’ class average errors are as follows:
● <> = 1.3 thousandths of an inch (0.03 mm);
● <> = 1.3 thousandths of an inch (0.03 mm).

Such surprising precision indicates a highly advanced manufacturing technique consistent with machining on a lathe as the modern lathe-made vases ‘M1’, ‘M2’, and ‘M3’ fall into this class.

On the other hand, the ‘IMPRECISE’ vases in Matt Beall’s collection are characterized by the following class averages:
● = 12 thousandths of an inch (0.3 mm);
● <> = 23 thousandths of an inch (0.5 mm).

This manufacturing quality is indicative of a much less advanced manufacturing technique consistent with the ‘stone and stick’ technology, as the vases ‘O1’ and ‘O2’ that were purposefully made using primitive tools fall into this category.

https://maximus.energy/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/Precision-and-Classification-of-Predynastic-Egyptian-Stone-Vessels_-A-Metrological-Study.pdf

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One measure of circularity is not the same as the surface deviation plots. Also the measures are calculated differently, that they both can presented as mm does not mean they are the same. Doing some hackneyed unit calculations they are root(mm*mm)=mm for Artifact foundation and root((mm-mm)^2)+mm=mm for maximus energy.
Now I'm out.

BPPLEE said:

I’m not here to defend everything Trump says, that’s a fool’s errand

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I don't expect you to defend it. I'm pretty certain that you think that what he says is atrocious as I think it is.

seeking.IAM said:

I must say it has become very personal for me.You see, I have brown grandchildren, the offspring of my very Anglo Caucasian son and his lovely citizen wife of Mexican heritage. They are only 5 & 3 and cute and smart as a button. The thought that my grandkids are growing up in an America where they may be stopped at any time with "papers please," pulled over while driving brown, or detained until they prove they have a right to be here scares me for them. And, it angers me, too. It is not the kind of country we are supposed to be. I recently talked to their great aunt who works for a 3-letter Federal agency. She is afraid to take her trash bin to the curb without ensuring she has her .gov ID around her neck. It is not the kind of country we are supposed to be.

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The WE SHOULDN'T HAVE ALLOWED IT TO BECOME THIS WAY. Holy cow. If we would have gotten control of our border a long time ago, we wouldn't be in this position. If Biden and the Democrats hadn't decided to let all these illegals in we wouldn't be here. You are blaming the wrong people.

Secondly I reject the premise. You and your friend are being overly dramatic because ICE is not just randomly picking up brown people because they are brown. These are targeted enforcements. In Portland they didnt drive around rhe streets and start grabbing brown people. Its actually people like you and the press that are scaring people by making those claims. ICE is targeting certain people who are known to be criminals and terrorists or are working with illegals. If you or your friend arw working with rhe mob, they should be expected to be picked up on a mob raid.

If they are with Al-Qaeda then they will get picked up with Al-Qaeda. So, DON'T BE WITH THEM. Its as simple as that. Don't be and you wont have to have any concerns at all.

BPPLEE said:

I’m not defending that quote I’m saying you and @GoldenBoy89 are making light of what happened ito the Jews by comparing it to being deported

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Before they were gassed, they were also imprisoned by separating families and causing chaos for children.

Maybe you are also making light of what is happenning to some of these immigrant children.

GoldenBoy89 said:

What Trump is saying is intimately related to what he’s doing. He’s expressing an idea we’ve heard before and not from a good source and when you combine that with what his administration is doing to people it starts to paint a very ugly picture. When you combine that with what others like Stephen Miller have expressed and when people see ICE agents acting with impunity and being accountable to no one and the underhanded tactics they’re using the picture really starts to look bad.


The worst part though, isn’t that we have a government doing these things. No. The worst part to me, is all the millions of Americans going along with it or providing cover and hand waving away any concerns like we see in this thread.

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This thread is about one law enforcement agency failing to help another one, what we’ve seen is providing cover for it, hand waving and justifying it

BPPLEE said:

Act on what?

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Demonising immigrants.

BPPLEE said:

I’m not here to defend everything Trump says, that’s a fool’s errand

Click to expand...

What Trump is saying is intimately related to what he’s doing. He’s expressing an idea we’ve heard before and not from a good source and when you combine that with what his administration is doing to people it starts to paint a very ugly picture. When you combine that with what others like Stephen Miller have expressed and when people see ICE agents acting with impunity and being accountable to no one and the underhanded tactics they’re using the picture really starts to look bad.


The worst part though, isn’t that we have a government doing these things. No. The worst part to me, is all the millions of Americans going along with it or providing cover and hand waving away any concerns like we see in this thread.

Vambram said:

You are free to continue to believe agencies and people whom constantly get their predictions wrong. Have a liberal cookie while enjoying the liberal kool-aid.

Click to expand...

First - these are not predictions. They're estimates. Estimates are numbers extrapolated from the government plans. It's a spreadsheet - not a crystal ball. If this - then that. Mathematics. If the government actually does what it has signed into law - then we can expect this outcome for the budget.

Second - a war or new pandemic could massively throw out ALL economic models and budgets.

So where does that leave us?

1. If this - then that. Is the program you are receiving so willingly reliable? Moral? To be endorsed?
2. Other real world disruptions are possible - but usually make matters even worse than predicted!


Unless you can find a credible agency that has actually DEBUNKED where this report reads the BBB wrong - then you're in denial and are magic handwaving.

You fulfilled the cookie meme.

You've eaten the cookie, and are replying with cookie filled fluffy assertions, not cold hard facts and data.​

​

"Smell good, don't they!"​

ViaCrucis said:

Nope. It's the truth, though I'm confident you don't know it, because you haven't looked into it beyond what the clowns on Fox and Phonies said.

-CryptoLutheran

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Why do YOU think it's shut down then? Tell me the reason