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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Awake Or Asleep?

Yes, that is a helpful scripture which shows that the dead sleep only momentarily.
I see that you have a grasp of the fact that sleeping and being dead is the same thing to Jesus, in this context.
Since Jesus said the girl did not die, but is sleeping, but then awakened her from sleep... that is, raised her from the dead, he obviously was teaching the people a lesson, which many today apparently do not grasp.

The scripture I had in mind bear out the heavenly truth Jesus was demonstration. Remember he asked Nicodemus - a Jewish teacher... If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? John 3:12
Interestingly, he was also speaking to Jewish teachers when he said this.
Luke 20, 37, 38
37 “But now, as to whether the dead will be raised - even Moses proved this when he wrote about the burning bush. Long after Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob had died, he referred to the Lord as ‘the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ 38 So he is the God of the living, not the dead, for they are all alive to him.”

To me, that is very powerful.
Even though persons are long dead, God sees them, not as dead, but alive, because he will raise them up.
In other words, because God intends to resurrect the dead, they are actually as good as raised up... living, because God will is as good as done, since he cannot lie, and he has the power and desire to accomplish what he wills, or wants.

That gives us the guarantee that our loved ones will return to life. We will see them again.
How reassuring is that! Interesting, isn't it. :smile:
Interesting too, is the fact that Jesus was teaching this truth to the religious leaders.
It seems they were misled by the teaching that misleads so many today - that the dead are actually alive... disqualifying any need of resurrection, and thus making God out to be a liar.

That, perhaps is why Jesus started by saying “But now, as to whether the dead will be raised - even Moses proved this when he wrote about the burning bush. Long after Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob had died, he referred to the Lord as ‘the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’"
The religious leaders may have adopted some of the teachings that were promoting the immortality of the soul, causing them to abandon resurrection, and forgetting that this was actually a teaching of the Jews throughout the Torah.

This is how easily Satan crafts his lies, to go against God's truth.
He started the lie in the garden, and he continues to craft it to fit different generations of religious beliefs.
It's no wonder then that there are so many different religious beliefs that embrace living on in some form after death.

Contrary to this, Jesus taught that resurrection - a rising up again, is the truth.
Paul spent many words on this in 1 Corinthians 15, because it was not the common belief among the people.
Thank for attempting to answer a somewhat tricky question.
You didn't do badly at all. :smile:
Think about this though, is it really momentarily? Jesus says judgment day is on the last day, Jesus says the resurrection is on the last day. Jesus said no one has ascended into heaven except the Son of Man, So if it's only momentary, where did the millions of people go after they died? - All the ones that were good from Adam and Eve's time to Jesus time period?
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Another look at the moon landing.

They are & are still being.
For what purpose?

What's the very worst that could happen? Someone, somewhere might one day say, "HA! It was all a con - we fooled you. In fact we spent millions of dollars making sure that we fooled you - all the rockets, etc were fake."
So what?
If the average person was told that they would no doubt say, "so you fooled me; who cares? You spent all that money trying to make sure that I believed in the moon landings - so what? It hasn't even affected, let alone ruined, my life, and I'm not the one in debt for millions of dollars."

Of course they can never say that because everyone knows they did happen; not least the men who walked on the moon.
I don't care how clever people are, even Einstein & Tesla were deceived in the end.
Not the same.

Very true, for us flat earthers & moon deniers too.
Exactly.
Flat Earth or globe earth; moon landings or not - it makes no difference whatsoever to our faith or the Gospel. Unless of course a person spends so much time on it, they no longer bother about the Gospel. (And I don't mean you.)

This is why "being deceived" makes little sense - it has nothing to do with our faith.
The only person who tries to deceive Christians is the devil. And he couldn't care less about moon landings; he just wants to keep people away from the cross.
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Three ICE detainees shot, 2 dead, at ICE facility in Dallas; suspected shooter committed suicide.

Do you think that's what he is or any of us are saying when we are talking g about referring to people as Nazis and the Gestapo? Somehow "paying attention" is the equivalent?
I don't understand the question. Maybe you could rephrase the question without asking what I think the poster is?
You mean illegal immigrants.
That's not what I had in mind.
I'd actually like to see the context of that.
The poisoning the blood comment is referring to the millions of undocumented immigrants living in the USA.

The enemy within in the speech I saw is domestic "radical left lunatics". But elsewhere Trump has also referenced Nancy Pelosi and Adam Schiff as part of the enemy within.
By standing up meaning its okay to call people Nazis and Gestapo?
I mean to convey that people will stand up against oppression and inhumanity because it's wrong.
How about telling people they need to stop it by "any means necessary"?
I see Trump suggesting that the "radical left lunatics" should be taken care of even if he has to use the army. In America he has the right to express his desires as President. But people also have the right to express their concerns about his desires.

You are offering excuses for people who do such things.
In keeping with the commandment to love others as I would want to be loved, I'm compelled by the Spirit to avoid hypocritical judgment.

If on one hand it's okay for Trump to express the same sentiments against others that Nazis used against the Jews, then I don't see how on the other hand it would be wrong for people to say that he's expressing the same sentiments against others that Nazi's used against the Jews.
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Awake Or Asleep?

Good post, and with a fitting closing statement!

I'm reminded of a time I was teaching on Spiritual gifts, and referred to them as "assets" when used, and that those who are not using them are just sitting on them. I ended by saying that those who are "sitting on their assets need to get off your assets and get to work."
:laughing: Aspects seems to be a better word... Well the spiritual gifts... and I agree, sitting on those is of no benefit. :grin:
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Citing Charlie Kirk murder, Tennessee pastor demands removal of 'Hate Has No Home' signs

So the pro-choice advocates here would be okay with an 18 week cap on elective abortions, and any beyond that would be subject to a medical review board? I'm guessing no.
Not like that, no. It would still be a tough sell, so you'd have to package it like the Europeans do--health care, birth control, comprehensive sex ed, family leave, child day care.
There are other legal proceedings that need to happen for outlier scenarios like that.

In virtually no other area of society do we give 14 year olds the same full rights as adults simply based on their parent's criminality and/or negligence.

The the scenario you describe, guardianship should be transferred to another responsible adult or entity, and that responsible adult can be the one who is provided notice, and giving the consent.
And as all that drags on the poor child has the baby.
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The significance of Paul

Imputed righteousness establishes the believer's right standing with God, providing the foundation for the progressive process of imparted righteosness; i.e., growth in holiness and character.
Nope, God doesn't deal in imputed/pretend righteousness There's no need. Any "gospel" that separates being justifed from being just opposes the true gospel, opposes the truth.
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Awake Or Asleep?

This scripture is not Jesus talking but I believe it is a helpful scripture:

But your dead will live, LORD; their bodies will riselet those who dwell in the dust wake up and shout for joy— your dew is like the dew of the morning; the earth will give birth to her dead. -Isaiah 26:19
Yes, that is a helpful scripture which shows that the dead sleep only momentarily.
I see that you have a grasp of the fact that sleeping and being dead is the same thing to Jesus, in this context.
Since Jesus said the girl did not die, but is sleeping, but then awakened her from sleep... that is, raised her from the dead, he obviously was teaching the people a lesson, which many today apparently do not grasp.

The scripture I had in mind bear out the heavenly truth Jesus was demonstration. Remember he asked Nicodemus - a Jewish teacher... If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? John 3:12
Interestingly, he was also speaking to Jewish teachers when he said this.
Luke 20, 37, 38
37 “But now, as to whether the dead will be raised - even Moses proved this when he wrote about the burning bush. Long after Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob had died, he referred to the Lord as ‘the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ 38 So he is the God of the living, not the dead, for they are all alive to him.”

To me, that is very powerful.
Even though persons are long dead, God sees them, not as dead, but alive, because he will raise them up.
In other words, because God intends to resurrect the dead, they are actually as good as raised up... living, because God will is as good as done, since he cannot lie, and he has the power and desire to accomplish what he wills, or wants.

That gives us the guarantee that our loved ones will return to life. We will see them again.
How reassuring is that! Interesting, isn't it. :smile:
Interesting too, is the fact that Jesus was teaching this truth to the religious leaders.
It seems they were misled by the teaching that misleads so many today - that the dead are actually alive... disqualifying any need of resurrection, and thus making God out to be a liar.

That, perhaps is why Jesus started by saying “But now, as to whether the dead will be raised - even Moses proved this when he wrote about the burning bush. Long after Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob had died, he referred to the Lord as ‘the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’"
The religious leaders may have adopted some of the teachings that were promoting the immortality of the soul, causing them to abandon resurrection, and forgetting that this was actually a teaching of the Jews throughout the Torah.

This is how easily Satan crafts his lies, to go against God's truth.
He started the lie in the garden, and he continues to craft it to fit different generations of religious beliefs.
It's no wonder then that there are so many different religious beliefs that embrace living on in some form after death.

Contrary to this, Jesus taught that resurrection - a rising up again, is the truth.
When Jesus said the girl is not dead, he was revealing a heavenly truth, and he demonstrated it.
Paul spent many words on this in 1 Corinthians 15, because it was not the common belief among the people.
Thanks for attempting to answer a somewhat tricky question.
You didn't do badly at all. :smile:
Upvote 0

Trump sends troops to the 'warzone' of Portland...

Trump questioned perception of Portland before approving military plan: 'Am I watching things on television that are different from what's happening?'

Trump referenced a weekend conversation with Oregon Gov. Tina Kotek, and he alluded to being told by Kotek that the reality in Portland is different from what's being portrayed to him.
"I spoke to the governor, she was very nice," Trump said. "But I said, 'Well wait a minute, am I watching things on television that are different from what's happening? My people tell me different.' They are literally attacking and there are fires all over the place...it looks like terrible."
Maybe he should visit and see what is really going on.
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Getting past heartbreak / not trying to save people

You are called to give compassion and discernment in equal measure. You are outright commanded to be discerning. So, no, it is not wrong to leave a door open. What is wrong is to not learn from your mistakes. To let that need to be a mother to him override the fact that he stole from you and hasn't made it right (he must pay you back more than he stole). You must be discerning enough to spot him trying to twist your open heart against you. "How could you say you care about me when you won't let me <X>" or "Pfft, some love that makes you reach out just to remind me that I hurt you."

Do not let his guilt and shame become your problem. He must face those, not deflect them on to you. Exile (cutting someone off and blocking them) is the last step before capital punishment. So, no, it's not particularly biblical to go that route.

As for the desire to give to people who abused you? I don't know you at all, but in my own life, the desire comes from having conditional love from my parents. I had to be useful to them in order to be valued. I had to achieved in order to earn anything above the bare minimum. In some ways, this is good and teaches a child to push themselves. But when it becomes the ONLY way that they can get affection, it becomes toxic and destructive, and creates an adult who cannot exist without external validation. Who always feels like no amount of effort is ever enough. Who puts up with almost any hurt because they know love only comes from that one place, no matter how bad it is. This is a well documented psychological fact. Is your problem conditional love? I can't say. But it has all the hallmarks of it, at least based on a few sentences.
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Multiple victims in Michigan church shooting; church on fire

If things keep going the way they are, you won't be able to say that a few years from now.
That's unlikely. While I haven't seen our stats for petty crime, my city's murder rate has been dropping like a rock. We're on track for the lowest murder rate in something like 50 years.
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Another look at the moon landing.

You believe that millions of people have been deceived

They are & are still being.
Those millions include extremely clever and well educated scientists, astronauts etc - while you, who know nothing about science, are one of the few who has the truth.

I don't care how clever people are, even Einstein & Tesla were deceived in the end.

There is nothing for us globe earth, moon landing believers to be deceived about - we still have Jesus and the Gospel.

Very true, for us flat earthers & moon deniers too.
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Multiple victims in Michigan church shooting; church on fire

What I see being filmed all over the place, is the same as what I experience firsthand but it's all marketing. And that goes for everyone else that sees what they themselves are experiencing happening all over the the country. You can even go to google street views and see how bad it is. But that's all supposed to be bogus. It seems like it would be a lot harder to stage all that, than to put out graph based on who knows what. It's easy to skew data like that by being selective about what's entered. That's where data is factual, but not thorough enough.
But the bad stuff still does exist. For example why is so much merchandise in stores locked up when it never was before? There's whole isles where everything is behind locked glass doors or in cages. I literally can't even buy underwear in the middle of the day, unless I find someone with a key.

Real Versus Perceived Crime Rates: Examining Causes of the Disconnect Between Fear and Reality

Americans are more fearful of crime than at any other point in the past two decades, even though crime rates are at the lowest point in close to 30 years. Previous literature has examined various causes of this exaggerated fear, ranging from gender differences to perceived neighborhood disorder as the cause. There have been multiple findings suggesting that neighborhood disorder plays a significant role in creating fear of crime. The presence of trash, unkempt lawns, and run-down properties lead people to believe crime is worse in their area than it actually is. This study examines fear of crime in association to the national robbery rate, media reporting on retail theft, and the presence of unsheltered homeless, as a proxy of perceived neighborhood disorder, to explore causes of the fear. This paper contributes to the previous literature by using new measures to examine potential causes of fear of crime, particularly finding that neighborhood disorder was most closely associated with trends in fear of crime.

Americans are more fearful of crime than at any point in more than two decades, with 78% of those polled asserting there is more crime than ever before (Ambrey, Fleming, & Manning, 2014; Gallup, 2023). In 2023, 40% of Americans reported being afraid to walk alone at night in their area, the highest such number in 30 years (Gallup, 2023). The number of Americans afraid of getting mugged has also jumped, going from 18% of adults being afraid of getting mugged in 2000 to 37% in 2023 (Gallup, 2023). Despite the spike in fear of crime, crime rates themselves have dropped significantly (Crime Data Explorer, 2022). Between 1993 and 2022, violent crime rates fell 70.5% (Crime Data Explorer, 2022). Property crimes have followed the same trend, dropping 71% from 1993 to 2022 (Crime Data Explorer, 2022; Pew, 2022). These trends suggest that overall crime rates have dropped to their lowest point in 30 years and yet fear of crime is hitting record highs (Gallup, 2023; Crime Data Explorer, 2022). What explains this disconnect between perception and reality?

One potential reason for this disconnect is that the memory of a traumatic event presented in the media is much more likely to stay in the public’s mind compared to objective statistics about crime rates. Ardananz, Corbacho, and Ruiz-Vega (2014) examined how people react when they are provided with the real rate of crime in their area. The authors found that the more someone believed they already had accurate knowledge about the crime rate in their area, the less likely they were to believe statistics stating otherwise.

Fear of crime has been found to be a by-product of consumption of prime-time TV, which often contains multiple news stories of violent crime (Romer, Jamieson & Aday, 2003). In addition to signaling “disorder” to local residents, media reports on the presence of unhoused homeless people may also influence perceptions of crime.


Report continues...
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Trump sends troops to the 'warzone' of Portland...

Trump questioned perception of Portland before approving military plan: 'Am I watching things on television that are different from what's happening?'

Trump referenced a weekend conversation with Oregon Gov. Tina Kotek, and he alluded to being told by Kotek that the reality in Portland is different from what's being portrayed to him.
"I spoke to the governor, she was very nice," Trump said. "But I said, 'Well wait a minute, am I watching things on television that are different from what's happening? My people tell me different.' They are literally attacking and there are fires all over the place...it looks like terrible."
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Angels in spiritual combat

I was laying in my Lazy-Boy trying to nap. My ear hurt. I heard a voice say "I will help you". Then the voice told a demon to "quit!". (I won't say the name of the demon here.) My earache went away in an instant.
To me, that was spiritual combat.
God bless you and may all the angels intercede for you!
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How to Respond to the Cross-Dressing Man at Mass? DIFFICULT MORAL QUESTIONS: What we do and what we tolerate both witness to what we believe.

Reminds me when a “sister of perpetual indulgence” (gay man/drag queen) went to Mass and received Holy Communion. Their hypocrisy and bigotry against the faithful angers me so much! Ugh!
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I am addicted to porn. Its time I face it.

Look up the Rat Park experiment. Long story short? Addictions of any kind, drugs, alcohol, porn, whatever. They all stem from a need to cope with a life that isn't good enough for one reason or another. Maybe you're alone. Maybe your expectations for life don't line up with what is possible/achievable. Maybe you're putting up with a job that treats you badly. Maybe you want to grow and can't.

The answer to how you go about kicking the addiction is to, first, identify what is wrong and why. You may need to have some very uncomfortable conversations if you can't identify this internally. But find brothers and sisters who can listen to you and help you find root causes. If you have absolutely no one, consider running a large language model through ollama. If you can write a 500 word essay (or more) on what you think happened and why, it might see trends you cannot. Pattern recognition is what LLMs are built to do. But, again, I consider this a last resort option, only if you have no one else you trust to have those conversations with.

Once you know the root cause, you can find the solution. Are you alone and trying to cope? Find people to spend time with and build a community. "But there are no third places!" then make one. Find a new life running a restaurant, or arcade, or coffee shop. Create a maker space. Run a group for some activity. If what you need doesn't exist, at least try creating it.

If the problem is a lack of the right kind of attention from your partner, talk to them about what they need from you. They're probably at their limit too, so start by being what they need first.

You haven't given up, you're just out of ideas. Now you have more.
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Multiple immigration sweeps reported across Los Angeles, with a tense standoff/protest downtown; SEIU union leader arrested

Woman hospitalized after being detained by federal agents at Ladera Heights Home Depot

“Let me go. I am an American who was born here," the woman is heard yelling in a video shared with NBC4.​

Witnesses tell NBC4 the woman was monitoring an immigration enforcement operation when she was detained and then taken to a hospital.

Witness video from a Ladera Heights Home Depot this morning shows a woman screaming as she is detained by federal agents. At one point, she identifies herself as an American.

“My name is Rachel Simon. I am an American citizen. I was born here. Please.”

It’s still unclear what led up to the confrontation. Witnesses say she is a member of the HILL Network, a community immigration defense group, and that she was monitoring the area.

Details on the woman's condition were not immediately available. According to the HILL Network, the woman was released from custody; it's unclear if she will face any charges.
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what would you do/abusive work/sign from God?

He was correct to ask as was the prayer but your interpretation is errant. God uses people from all walks of life and normalcy is the norm. The recent fixation with doing big things for God is that. The majority live out their faith quietly and influence their family, friends, neighbors, coworkers, community etc.

You’re also forgetting there’s range with the concept. Normal for one looks different for another. Go back to that time and consider its connection to where you are today. Would you be in the position to meet your companion? And who’s to say a special work won’t emerge from the pairing? Don’t forget the role season plays in the whole. If you read biographies you’ll see that up close.

And there’s facets to our assignment. Our primary focus isn’t the only one and we can pick up other mantles or have areas the Lord permits for additional work. You may be in a better position than you were during that period. Once upon a time I wanted to be a surgeon. But the Lord said writer, speaker, entrepreneur, fashion designer, interior designer, homesteader and so on.

Understand? ;-)

~bella
Yes, the pastor was right on. The question he gave was a good one. In my distress I just wanted to be rid of the spiritual conflict. Your other points are valid too. Except maybe that I had lots of other chances in all kinds of things, including ministry. Probably my definition of normal involved some worldliness. So yes, the definition one uses becomes so important. Anyhow, I skated by quite a number of yaers with not much to show for it. Could it have shaped me now? Of course, but if anything, I am far behind what I could have been. Of course, one has to put the past aside and not get caught up in much second guessing. Thanks for shedding some light on this.
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Awake Or Asleep?

I think we can put this one to rest.
Good post, and with a fitting closing statement!

I'm reminded of a time I was teaching on Spiritual gifts, and referred to them as "assets" when used, and that those who are not using them are just sitting on them. I ended by saying that those who are "sitting on their assets need to get off your assets and get to work."
Upvote 0

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