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Israel-Hamas Thread II

Why should they not?

Inhabitants of the region have been called "Palestinians" since Roman times.

That's all very well, but it doesn't answer the question: The indigenous people of the other former Ottoman provinces got their own countries and eventually independence. Why not the indigenous people of the former Ottoman Palestine?

One might wonder why so many refuse to show respect to the "Palestinians" and take them at their word.

To the credit of the "Palestinians", it must be said that for more than a century they have been consistent in word and deed, rejecting any proposal to establish another Arab state on the territory of the defunct Ottoman Empire if that additional Arab state must have a border with the only sovereign state of the Jewish people.

British Foreign Secretary Ernest Bevin provided the clearest diagnosis of the priorities of the "Palestinian" Arabs in February 1947, when none of today's excuses, settlements, occupation, Netanyahu, existed. He stated

"For the Jews, the essential principle is the creation of a sovereign Jewish state. For the Arabs, the essential principle is to resist to the utmost the establishment of Jewish sovereignty in any part of Palestine."

Beavin's words remain as accurate as they are prophetic, even nearly eight decades later.

Nowhere is this more evident than in the so-called refugee issue. Unlike other refugee groups, who were essentially told to move and accept the new borders and sovereignties established after the collapse of empires, the Arab refugees of the 1948 war, which was fought with the stated goal of preventing a Jewish state, were allowed to hijack an organization, UNRWA, to create an ever-growing group of people who call themselves "refugees" and refuse to settle until they achieve their goal of a Jewish state.

Today, UNRWA erroneously counts over six million such "refugees", while "Palestinian" leaders themselves speak of eight to nine million. Their demand is that all of them, children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren of the original refugees, have an individual "right of return" to settle in Israel. With eight million Jews and two million Arab citizens, the implementation of this settlement project would make Jews a minority in an Arab state, even though Arab states have a disastrous record of treating their Jewish minorities and launched ethnic cleansing against nearly a million Jews when they dared to consider themselves equal.

The figures on the flight and expulsion of Jews from Arab states are shocking: of the more than 250,000 Moroccan Jews, only about 2,000 remained in the country. Tunisia was home to 100,000 Jews; today there are 1,000. In 1948, there were 75,000 Jews living in Egypt and 135,000 in Iraq; today there are fewer than 20 in each country. In Yemen, there were about 60,000; today their number is estimated at 50. The Syrian Jewish community was decimated from 30,000 to fewer than 15. In 1948, there were still 140,000 Jews living in Algeria and 38,000 in Libya. Today, there are no Jews left in either country.

Unfortunately, the only state of "Palestine" that the "Palestinians" have enthusiastically accepted is one that could best be described as Schrödinger's "Palestine". Is "Palestine" a state that takes responsibility for invading Israel to commit a horrific massacre? Is "Palestine" a state that recognizes that the millions of people already living in this "Palestine" are not, and cannot be, fifth-generation "Palestinian refugees"? Is "Palestine" a state that ends the myth that millions of "Palestinians" have the right to settle not in this state, but in another state, Israel, of which they were never citizens, the so-called "right of return"? Is "Palestine" a state that surrenders and ends the war? No, for all these adult purposes, "Palestine" is not a state. The cat is dead.

But is "Palestine" a state in order to harass Israel in international forums (the entire case before the ICC was based on this idea)? Yes, then "Palestine" is very much a state. The cat is alive.

Why hasn’t Arab representative government ever been established in "Palestine", either in 1948 or during the next 19 years of Arab rule? Adherents to a separate "Palestinian" identity were a mute minority in Judea/Samaria and Gaza during the 19 years of Jordanian and Egyptian rule, until Israel took control from the Jordanians and the Egyptians in 1967. Suddenly a separate "Palestinian" peoplehood appeared and claimed it deserved nationhood and 21 other Arab states went along with it.

Centuries before Muslims and Arabs even existed, the Romans imposed the name "Palestine" on the Jews and ancient Israel. They banned circumcision and restructured and renamed the province of Judea as "Syria Palaestina". For they remembered the Peleset, the Philistines: by giving the region the name of their historically documented enemies, they set an example. A humiliation. And so the name "Palestine" for the region came into being in the first place.

At the time of Jesus, there were no Arabs living in the Holy Land; like the Bedouins, they only migrated there after the Romans expelled most of the Jews, filling the vacuum that was created! Islam did not emerge until around 800 years later.

There is no mention of "Palestine" in the Qur'an. The region is referred to in the Qur'an as the land promised to the sons of Israel (Sura 5:20-26). Sura 26:59 states that the land will be inherited by the Jews

So it was. And We awarded it ˹all˺ to the Children of Israel. Sura 26:59

Furthermore, there are other passages in the Qur'an that confirm Israel as the permanent home of the Jews (e.g. 2:251; 7:137; 10:93; 17:104; 21:70-71; 28:5-6).

How can the "Palestinians" have the right to establish a state on the Jewish land of Israel, which Allah has granted and bequeathed to the Jews?

The Arabs' claim to the land of Israel is false and constitutes an attack on the Quran, on the Jews and their land. The Quran states that this land belongs to the Jews.

Just a few decades after the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem (70 CE), at the end of the first century CE, flourishing Jewish communities existed once again in Caesarea, Ashkelon, Acco, Beth Shean, and elsewhere. After the suppression of the Jewish revolt under Bar Kochba (132-135 CE), the Romans devastated the Jewish cities and settlements in their province of Judaea and sold many Jews into slavery, but Jewish settlement of the land continued, with Tiberias now becoming the spiritual center. It was there that the Jerusalem Talmud was completed at the end of the 4th century.
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Why we Christians still have to struggle with sins?

Well. allow to explain this way, Jesus brought grace when he came in the flesh, but example of grace was in the days of Noah. But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. (Genesis 6:8), And Noah and his family was saved. Not save from eternal life, but saved from the flood. This is why Jesus had to come. Paul says in Hebrews 9: 24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: 26 for then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Now Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

(v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God.

So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2 :36-38). And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death, which is the lake of fire. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life but that’s another lesson for another time.

So by coming under the blood of Jesus being baptize, you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (Romans 23:3), and if you continue to live you will sin again.

When the bible speaks of laws we no longer have to keep, it is speaking of the sacrificial laws and Priesthood laws. These animal sacrificial laws were a school master pointing us to the fact that Jesus would be sacrificed for our sins. Since Jesus died we are no longer under a school master, (required to offer up bulls and goats for our sins). Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. This animal sacrificial law was only a schoolmaster.(Gal 3:24)

Now we must believe (have faith) Jesus died for us (Hebrews 10:4,9-10) 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 9 then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

This doesn't mean we don't have to obey God's moral laws of conduct. That would be like a man getting paroled from prison and then ignoring the same laws that sent him to prison in the first place. Jesus only died once, so if we willingly break God's law, after accepting Jesus, our reward will be eternal damnation

It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrew 10: 26, 27)

Well. allow to explain this way, Jesus brought grace when he came in the flesh, but example of grace was in the days of Noah. But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. (Genesis 6:8), And Noah and his family was saved. Not save from eternal life, but saved from the flood. This is why Jesus had to come. Paul says in Hebrews 9: 24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: 26 for then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Now Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

(v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God.

So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2 :36-38). And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death, which is the lake of fire. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life but that’s another lesson for another time.

So by coming under the blood of Jesus being baptize, you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (Romans 23:3), and if you continue to live you will sin again.

When the bible speaks of laws we no longer have to keep, it is speaking of the sacrificial laws and Priesthood laws. These animal sacrificial laws were a school master pointing us to the fact that Jesus would be sacrificed for our sins. Since Jesus died we are no longer under a school master, (required to offer up bulls and goats for our sins). Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. This animal sacrificial law was only a schoolmaster.(Gal 3:24)

Now we must believe (have faith) Jesus died for us (Hebrews 10:4,9-10) 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 9 then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

This doesn't mean we don't have to obey God's moral laws of conduct. That would be like a man getting paroled from prison and then ignoring the same laws that sent him to prison in the first place. Jesus only died once, so if we willingly break God's law, after accepting Jesus, our reward will be eternal damnation

It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrew 10: 26, 27)
Herer is a point by point rbuttal of your arguments.

1. Grace existed before Christ but only in a limited form (Noah saved from flood, not eternal salvation).


  • Claim: Noah’s grace was only temporal (deliverance from the flood). True grace (salvation) came only when Christ died.
  • Rebuttal:
    • Romans 4:3 – “Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.” → Salvation by grace through faith existed before the cross.
    • Hebrews 11 lists OT believers (Noah, Abraham, Moses) as saved by faith—looking forward to Christ’s sacrifice.
    • The cross was the basis of salvation for all ages (past, present, future), not just after Christ appeared (Heb. 9:15).

2. Jesus’ death justifies us only for past sins; future sins require new forgiveness daily.


  • Claim: Baptism saves from past sins only; salvation must be renewed daily because we continue to sin.
  • Rebuttal:
    • Hebrews 10:14 – “For by one offering he hath perfected forever them that are sanctified.” → Christ’s sacrifice covers all sins (past, present, future).
    • 1 John 1:7 – “The blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.” (present, ongoing action).
    • Romans 8:1 – “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus.” → Security is not conditional on day-to-day cleansing but abiding in Christ.

3. The laws we are freed from are sacrificial and priesthood laws; moral law must still be kept.


  • Claim: Jesus removed sacrificial law but moral law (e.g., Ten Commandments) is still binding.
  • Rebuttal:
    • Romans 6:14 – “Ye are not under the law, but under grace.” → Believers are freed from the law’s authority as a covenant.
    • The moral imperatives are fulfilled through the Spirit’s law of love (Romans 13:8–10, Galatians 5:22–23), not by re-imposing the Mosaic law.
    • We will obey the Sermon on The Mount because we have been saved and love our Father and our Elder Brother. This is not the cause of our salvation but it's effect.

4. If you sin willfully after knowing the truth, there is no more sacrifice (Heb. 10:26).


  • Claim: After baptism/faith, if one sins deliberately, eternal damnation is certain.
  • Rebuttal:
    • Context of Hebrews 10:26 = rejecting Christ’s once-for-all sacrifice and returning to animal sacrifices, not ordinary stumbles in Christian life. I person is depending on something other than Christ and putting their faith in it and this will lead to certian death.
    • 1 John 2:1 – “If any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” → There is continued provision for forgiveness even after conversion. But it is not salvific it is that we have love him and are sorry for our disobedience.
    • John 10:28–29 – Jesus says no one can pluck believers from His hand. → Security in Christ is not lost with every sin, but only by ultimately rejecting Him. Even if it is a partial rejection so that we can depend in part upon our own behaviour.

5. Grace = access back to the Tree of Life (Christ).


  • Claim: Grace is defined narrowly as restored access to eternal life.
  • Rebuttal:
    • Ephesians 2:8–9 – “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.” → Grace is God’s unmerited favor, not simply access to the Tree.
    • Titus 2:11–12 – Grace not only saves but also “teaches us to deny ungodliness.” → Grace is broader than access—it is God’s ongoing empowerment.

Summary


The argument has five major flaws:


  1. Misunderstanding OT grace → OT saints were saved by faith in the coming Christ, not just temporal deliverance.
  2. Limiting Christ’s atonement to past sins only → The cross covers all sins, once for all.
  3. Keeping the Moral moral law as binding → The Spirit fulfills the law through love.
  4. Misreading Hebrews 10:26 → It warns against apostasy, not daily sins.
  5. Redefining grace too narrowly → Grace is broader: unmerited favor + empowerment, not only restored access.
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Here’s the No. 1 fallacy on eternal security

Like your choice is involved in either your natural birth or your spiritual rebirth?. . .
Who made that rule?. . .where does Scripture present that unregenerate man must be the originator of his choices?
He participates in, he doesn't originate the choice. That choice is a gift that comes from God but it's one that we can resist and refuse. It would be impossible to participate in choosing our natural birth, but not so at all with our spiritual birth. Just as mans choice caused his death, so God strives to elicit from us the right choice, for life, now-and continue in that choice daily.

Pelagius, supposedly, taught that we didn't need grace to come to God or to live righteously. The church teaches that we need grace for both. We can't begin to turn to God without it, and we cannot overcome sin without it..
Scripture presents no choice to be made by spiritually dead men (Eph 2:4) in order to be spiritually reborn (Jn 3:3-8).
Scripture presents rebirth (Jn 3:3-5) as an act of the sovereign Holy Spirit, whose choice is as unaccountable as the wind (Jn 3:6-8).

And spiritual rebirth, with its changing of disposition from unbelief to belief, is a guarantee of salvation (Eph 2:8-9).
The changed disposition, being disposed to God, therefore freely chooses what it prefers, the things of God.
ALL men must turn to God and be reborn. That's simply man's purpose, the reason he was created. Some will and some will not go along with the program.
And yet you keep insisting that man makes a free choice. But at least now you're acknowledging that God really just wants to make Christian automatons in your theology, so He can send those to heaven, and the same for those He sends to eternal torment, also without their choice in the matter.
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Erika Kirk shows us how to reach young women

Two days after his death, on September 12th, Charlie’s wife Erika stood alone behind his broadcasting chair, whispered a prayer, and addressed the whole world. She only spoke for a little over 10 minutes, but it was dynamic. After a decade of cultural girl-powerbrokers like Barbie, JLo, Megan Rapinoe, and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, this grieving widow would obliterate lies and stereotypes with an entirely different vision of female power: a woman aflame with faithful love.

Charlie’s target audience was the youth, and he was reaching them. Statistics show that conservatism, including valuing children and family, is steadily on the rise among young men. But those same studies show an inverse relationship with young unmarried women, who are leaning decidedly left. Conservative victories are shadowed by the most essential human dilemma: without young women, you’re facing extinction. Even Charlie’s winsome reason has not changed the trend. Unfortunately, studies also show heightening anxiety, isolation, and depression for these young women, despite record achievements. They are in turmoil.

Charlie welcomed students to bring their turmoil to the microphone for debate. When I was young enough to be Charlie’s target audience, had he come to my college, he would have found me already conservative and devout, not disagreeing with him on most core issues. But underneath my convictions, the turmoil was there. If I had stood across from him and asked my burning question it would have been something like, “So our culture is in the grip of a fight to the death over truth and lies. What’s my place in that, as a woman?”

Continued below.
Amen
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Kamala Harris says picking a gay man for VP was too big of a risk

It didn't matter to the Biden Administration which picked many LGBT folks for a variety of positions. But it somehow mattered to Kamala Harris. Because votes.
Yes, votes tend to matter quite a bit in elections. Is this news to you?
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Christian Artists Remember Charlie Kirk

Here's a sampling of what other Christian Music musicians have said about Charlie Kirk’s assassination.

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Three ICE detainees shot, 2 dead, at ICE facility in Dallas; suspected shooter committed suicide.

Time for another absolute frenzy to lay blame at the feet of whichever political side we don't like. It needs to happen fast. It needs to happen before anyone knows anything substantive. And everything has be simple black and white and fit neatly into one of two boxes. No shades of gray allowed. and.... GO!
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Kimmel is Back

Thanks for your opinions, but like I said, I disagree.
They are not my opinions; I had to learn how to use these dichotomies through study. You say you disagree, but you don't say what you disagree with specifically. You didn't put forth a single sentence that you disagreed with when asked.

Are you afraid to learn something and find out you're wrong? For the scriptures teach that a wise person loves instruction, but a fool despises correction.
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DOGE NEWS

There should be a searing Congressional investigation into this malfeasance,
The GAO is investigating what happened at GSA.

Trump administration rehires hundreds of federal employees laid off by DOGE

Hundreds of federal employees who lost their jobs in Elon Musk’s cost-cutting blitz are being asked to return to work.
Those who accept must report for duty on October 6 after what amounts to a seven-month paid vacation ... As a result of the internal turmoil, 131 leases expired without the government actually vacating the properties, the official said. The situation has exposed the agencies to steep fees because property owners have not been able to rent out those spaces to other tenants.
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Charlie Kirk's Memorial Service: Let's Talk About That.

That's certainly one potential take, but that's hard to square with your earlier description of the unity as being "much needed". Was there much disunity among the Kirk fanbase prior to this? I wasn't aware that there was.
Yes. One specific example was the disunity between Trump and Elon Musk. During the event, they both made amends and buried the hatchet. It was quite a beautiful thing.
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Kamala Harris says picking a gay man for VP was too big of a risk

That's your opinion. Others might disagree.
Others don't agree we've been on the moon, live on a round earth, and that 1x1=1. That doesn't make them right.
Biden promised to be a one term president. Guess he lied. Or forgot, or something.
He says he didn't. More likely, he said he was mulling being a one-term president, but then changed his mind when he saw that Trump was running again and since he beat him so handily the first time, he wanted to run again to ensure he didn't regain the office.

He WAS elected as a mayor. So I question your staement.
Of a Democrat-heavy jurisdiction. One that isn't going to have the same problems with homosexuality as the deep south, the plains, and places like Florida or Texas.
Who are these people? Do you have actual names?
I certainly could give you names, but I've been informed that will land me a ban. Instead, you'll just have to just not be deliberately obtuse, looking around at the state of everything from this forum to the demographic of people that elected Trump.

Walz was goofy. Not gay but goofy. He has his niche in Minnesota and is favored to be re-elected governor there. Shapiro had the big problem of being Jewish and the antifa and Hamas wings of the Democratic party would NEVER EVER have approved of that. Shapiro would actually be a better than most candidate for 2028 but he will never be approved by the Democratic Party to have that chance. Maybe he could run as an independent and have a shot.
Your cohort believes he acted gay and has stated as much quite clearly.

I understand why Shapiro wasn't chosen, but it had nothing to do with the mythical antifa and pro=Hamas nonsense that has become the newest Republican boogeyman. It had more to do with his being Jewish and not a predictable Democrat, but one who's willing to fight with his own party but then ultimately capitulate. The inability to reliably predict what he'd make a battle, what he'd let slide, and his lack of tact within handling his own party made him a liability. However, he would have likely brought PA with him and I think he understood the nuances of campaigning on a world stage that Waltz didn't have.
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Consequences of firing government employees - USDA says it accidentally fired officials working on bird flu and is trying to rehire them

Trump administration rehires hundreds of federal employees laid off by DOGE

Hundreds of federal employees who lost their jobs in Elon Musk’s cost-cutting blitz are being asked to return to work.

Those who accept must report for duty on October 6 after what amounts to a seven-month paid vacation, during which time the GSA in some cases racked up high costs — passed along to taxpayers — to stay in dozens of properties whose leases it had slated for termination or were allowed to expire.

“Ultimately, the outcome was the agency was left broken and understaffed,” said Chad Becker, a former GSA real estate official. “They didn’t have the people they needed to carry out basic functions.”

Its return to work request mirrors rehiring efforts at ... several agencies targeted by DOGE. Last month, the IRS said it would allow some employees who took a resignation offer to remain on the job. The Labor Department has also brought back some employees who took buyouts, while the National Park Service earlier reinstated a number of purged employees.

A small cohort of Musk’s trusted aides embedded in GSA’s headquarters, sometimes sleeping on cots on the agency’s sixth floor, and pursued plans to abruptly cancel nearly half of the 7,500 leases in the federal portfolio. [many of these decisions were rolled back]

DOGE’s “Wall of Receipts,” which once boasted that the lease cancellations alone would save nearly $460 million, has since reduced that estimate to $140 million by the end of July, according to Becker, the former GSA real estate official.

[But at least there were some savings, right?]

As a result of the internal turmoil, 131 leases expired without the government actually vacating the properties, the official said. The situation has exposed the agencies to steep fees because property owners have not been able to rent out those spaces to other tenants.

[GAO plans a report on the GSA]
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The fascinating reformed theology paradox of Hebrew 6:4-6

The gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit is not a "grace" (ability or power). . .the Holy Spirit is the source of grace.
The reasoning draws a hard distinction: the Holy Spirit is the source of grace, not a grace Himself. But the Bible actually shows that the Holy Spirit is both the giver and Himself a gift.


  • Acts 2:38 – “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
    → The Spirit is called a gift.
  • Ephesians 3:16-17 – Paul prays that believers be “strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith.”
    → The Spirit indwells as power (grace at work), not just as a source external to grace.

So, the reasoning errs by separating the Spirit from “grace.” The Spirit is both God’s gift and the one who dispenses God’s enabling grace.
And one has no choice in the matter
The claim that “one has no choice in the matter” contradicts Scripture’s repeated calls to repent, believe, and receive the Spirit.


  • Acts 5:32 – “The Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”
    → The Spirit is given conditionally upon obedience.
  • Galatians 3:2 – “Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by hearing with faith?”
    → Paul links the reception of the Spirit to faith, not to a unilateral sovereign act apart from human response.
  • John 7:37-39 – Jesus says, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink… this he spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive.”
    → Receiving the Spirit requires coming and believing—it is not automatic.

Thus, the idea that one has “no choice” ignores Scripture’s emphasis on faith, repentance, obedience, and response as conditions for receiving the Spirit.
, for the indwelling Holy Spirit is the result of the Holy Spirit's sovereign choice
The reasoning claims that the indwelling Spirit is purely the Spirit’s sovereign choice and people have no role is not biblical.
  • But Scripture repeatedly emphasizes human response, reception, and faith as the condition for receiving the Spirit.
    • Acts 2:38 – “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
      → The Spirit is promised in response to repentance and faith, not imposed without participation.
    • Galatians 3:2 – “Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by hearing with faith?”
      → The Spirit is received through hearing with faith, which presumes a choice to believe.
    • John 7:37–39 – Jesus says, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink... Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive.”
      → “Anyone” may come; it’s conditional on thirsting and believing.
(as unaccountable as the wind, Jn 3:3-8)
This is a misreading of John 3:3-8
  • John 3 says the Spirit’s work is mysterious like the wind—not that humans have no choice.
  • Jesus’ whole point to Nicodemus is that rebirth comes through faith in Him:
    • John 3:16 – “Whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
    • The Spirit’s sovereign work is not opposed to human believing; rather, God grants new birth through the reception of Christ.
    → If John 3:8 meant “no choice,” it would contradict John 3:16 two verses later.
to spiritually regenerate (rebirth) and indwell a person.

Summary of flaws


  • The reasoning denies human choice, but Scripture presents reception of the Spirit as tied to repentance, faith, and response.
  • It separates grace from the Spirit, but Scripture calls the Spirit’s working itself grace.
  • It misuses John 3, ignoring the balance between God’s sovereignty and the universal offer of new birth.
  • It overlooks passages that warn against resisting, grieving, or quenching the Spirit—clear evidence that people can reject His gift.
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Charlie Kirk's Memorial Service: Let's Talk About That.

I don't doubt that lots of beauty and worship went on at Kirk's event but darkness was there as well. Satan thrives on lies and hate.

It was incredible to see Kirk's wife forgive the murderer. But, it was horrible and satanic to watch Trump lie and preach hate and see so many who claim to be Christians cheer for the vile which spewed out of his mouth.

It is our calling to love and be kind. I pray for the redemption of all of those that embraced Trump's message.
What on earth are you talking about? You didnt watch Trump's speech, did you.
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Shooting kills 3 transgender women outside Karachi, Pakistan

Thanks for the response. I wasn't aware of much of that.

Peace

A few politicians in Japan have tried to import American-style Evangelical culture war rhetoric about LGBT persons in the past decade or so, even trying to network the idea into the remnants of the "State Shinto" organization (which isn't as influential as it sounds), but it's been mostly rejected as going against the Japanese spirit of avoiding controversy and seeking social harmony.

There was actually an internationally famous Japanese author named Yukio Mishima, who, while not identifying as gay, clearly was at least bisexual, and his homoeroticism fits a typical Japanese pattern- present, but not necessarily crystalized as an identity. He was actually the last person to die by ritual suicide in Japan, in an impractical but symbolic attempt to overthrow the civilian government. He had his own private mysticism that was eclectic, and his flamboyance often placed him outside the mainstream of Japanese culture, but his life served as a kind of drag performance of "the Way of the Pen and the Sword" (bunbu ryodo).
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Charlie Kirk's Memorial Service: Let's Talk About That.

When someone shoots you in the ear and another hides in the bushes with a rifle trying to shoot you, you tend to think of your enemies as enemies
Except Trump never called anyone a enemy in his speech.
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