rjs330 said:

I'm wondering why you left out the other stuff.

Click to expand...

Because it was irrelevant. I was replying to someone who made the claim "Transgender people are given puberty blockers and/or gotten ready for a lifetime of surgeries and drugs in order to change their gender (their sex)" to point out that it's not the norm - or even especially common. The data that you cited supports my argument.

Strong in Him said:

No idea, it was in another thread. Though it's possible that you found his testimony for yourself.

Click to expand...

Why would I post it ?

Fervent said:

It's not a matter of questioning my beliefs, but seeing if you'll put your money where your mouth is. In my experience atheists make bold statements of epistemic confidence...

Click to expand...

My bold statement is that no argument presented to me has convinced me whatsoever that there is a God. Your mileage obviously varies. There is no proof available to anyone either for or against the matter. I'll not waste our time in discussing it further.

Fervent said:

Of course, which is why I'm a philosophical skeptic. I don't believe we can justifiably claim to know anything, and at some point everything comes down to faith of one sort or another.

Click to expand...

I claim that we can. Sufficiently to live a meaningful life.

Fervent said:

False confidence, since just because they haven't proven wrong yet doesn't mean they will hold. And there is only so much that any individual can check on their own without relying on testimonial reports.

Click to expand...

I hold to them with justifiable confidence until I'm proved wrong. And let's be honest. The level of confidence often rises to such a point where it's not valid to say that you're in any doubt.

Fervent said:

So surgeons shouldn't perform surgery?

Click to expand...

Please, do not treat me like an idiot. You know exactly what I meant.

Fervent said:

No, they're not "relative" because in any given situation there is a limited number of options that are correct;; they just aren't simple or inherent in the act alone.

Click to expand...

All acts are context dependent. If you want to dispute that truism then simply give me an example of an act without any context at all.

Fervent said:

The existence of a objective right and wrong is distinct from our ability to make determinations. Without an objective morality, morals are meaningless and the only moral authority is force.

Click to expand...

You're going to force me to donate to charity? How is that going to work?

Fervent said:

Nope, you're conflating access with existence.

Click to expand...

You said that we can't determine objective morality. Because gee, it's a swamp out there. What use is it if you tell me it's too difficult to determine, you get different people saying they are using the same source but reaching different conclusions and you can't answer simple moral ptoblems?

What is it that you are trying to support. It seems like smoke and mirrors.

Fervent said:

Perhaps you should take the time to understand the relevance, because my answer is in the question.

Click to expand...

No, you gave a different question (Singer's example) that would have an easy answer. Expound on that basic question and tell me at what point I should save the child somewhere instead of having dinner with my wife?

I'm sure you'd tell me what you thought of me if I let the kid drown to save damaging my new shoes. So why is my question so hard? What's the objective answer?

The Catholic Church is one of those churches which believe in closed communion.

The reasons are succintly given in the following explanation.

Question:​

How would I explain to a non-Catholic that her not being allowed to receive the Eucharist is not the Church being exclusive?

Answer:​

There are two main reasons non-Catholics cannot receive communion at a Catholic Mass:

1. The Eucharist is the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus Christ. We must be properly prepared to receive it (1 Cor. 11:26-29). A non-Catholic who does not believe in the Real Presence would not be properly prepared to receive the Eucharist.
2. Notice the word communion. You are asking why those who are not in communion with the Church cannot receive Communion. The word implies a unity and a oneness. Because Catholics believe that the celebration of the Eucharist is a sign of the reality of the oneness of faith, life, and worship, members of faith communities with whom we are not yet fully united are not admitted to Holy Communion.

Click to expand...

Asking if Jesus would be admitted to His own table is ridiculous. He is IN the bread and wine on the altar, after the priest calls upon the Holy Spirit to make these gifts holy.

I suppose it does raise one side track question - did He partake of the bread and wine after He distributed it to His disciples in the upper room, or did they drink and eat, and not Him?

Servus said:

How is it a Christian issue?

Click to expand...

I don't know how, but anti-AGW seems to be associated with Trump's conservative Christian base, who blame AGW on "the Left"

Apple Sky said:

No I'm not, who was this someone else ?

Click to expand...

No idea, it was in another thread. Though it's possible that you found his testimony for yourself.
Either way, you watched it and know that you did.

Was Charles lying when he said, "Either Jesus' claim to be the Way, the Truth and the Life is true or it's the biggest con in history"?
Was he lying when he said that his wife was on the verge of suicide and had tried everything - except Jesus?

@Strong in Him

You can be fairly confident that you might make it in, but if there is truly not even one shred of doubt, then it is sin, because, for one, you're not yielding your own individual judgement to God, and then, for another, it's like you are somehow telling God that he has to let you in, because he's maybe evil or something if he doesn't, because you have evaluated/judged yourself and found yourself somehow completely worthy, and if he somehow doesn't agree with your own evaluation or judgement of yourself, then he's somehow evil, or wicked, or not at all just at all if he doesn't let you in, etc.

God also cannot let all sin slide also, etc.

God Bless.

Neogaia777 said:

You do whatever you want, but I'm just telling you that 100% full confidence either way, is sin.

Click to expand...

No, it's not.
It's faith in God who keeps his word.

My faith is not in myself, as it would be if I were trying to weigh up my good deeds. It's in Jesus and what he has done. I would not be able to trust God, to have faith in him if I thought there was a chance he might finally reject me one day.
I feel sad for you if you don't know that.

Apple Sky said:

I'm not reading through 20 pages. Just tell us.

Click to expand...

It's not that hard. Try it.

Strong in Him said:

You're changing the subject.

Click to expand...

No I'm not, who was this someone else ?

Apple Sky said:

And who might this someone else be ?

Click to expand...

You're changing the subject.
Was Charles lying when he said, "Either Jesus' claim to be the Way, the Truth and the Life is true or it's the biggest con in history"?
Was he lying when he said that his wife was on the verge of suicide and had tried everything - except Jesus?

Servus said:

What have the Democrats? As low end working class I had wonderful healthcare, until Obamacare ruined it and I ended up with no coverage.

Click to expand...

At lest some Democrats have pushed for a Medicare for all type model. Insurance tied to employment is not helping anything. At a minimum, all healthcare insurance needs to be removed from employer benefit packages and put on the open market like auto and home insurance to bring in actual competition on premiums.

Strong in Him said:

No.
I looked for Charles' testimony on YouTube because you watched it on YouTube when someone else gave you the link.

Click to expand...

And who might this someone else be ?

BCP1928 said:

That may be, but you were referring to their charter, which I quoted.

Click to expand...

They have refused every two state solution they have been offered - why? They don't want a two state - they want one - with all the Jews dead -

They say this - Their mission is not to free Palestine, but to eliminate the Jews - period

Kill ‘all’ Jews, Hamas TV host urges kids​

A children’s show on Al-Aqsa TV, the official Hamas-run television channel broadcasting from Gaza, broadcast a segment calling for the mass killing of Jews.

In a clip of the kids’ TV show “The Pioneers of Tomorrow,” broadcast on May 2 and uploaded Thursday by the MEMRI media watchdog, the host of the program, a young girl in a hijab, interviews two very young children, one of whom says she hopes to be a police officer like her uncle Ahmad.

The host asks what policemen do, and, after establishing that they catch criminals, adds that “they shoot Jews, right?” and stresses to her young guest that “you want to be like him.”

Click to expand...

How Hamas arms children for terrorism: previously unseen images revealed by IDF​

Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) presented previously unseen images on Wednesday, shedding light on how terrorist organizations, primarily Hamas and Islamic Jihad, exploit children in the Gaza Strip for military activities and indoctrinate them with hatred towards Israel and Jews.

The IDF statement emphasized that children in Gaza are subjected to early education in animosity, both in schools and through youth movements and camps.

"Children receive military training from a young age, both theoretical and practical," the IDF statement noted. Even during times of relative calm, Hamas organizes summer camps where children are taught various military skills, including shooting guns, navigating tunnels, confronting tanks, and even engaging in simulated soldier kidnappings. These camps serve as initial training grounds for the military wing of Hamas.

Click to expand...

Hamas exists for one purpose - to kill Jews

Servus said:

No I said AGW is real, but it doesn't warrant all of the doomsday exaggeration and hyperbole.

Click to expand...

Ah, I see. The trouble is, most of that "doomsday exaggeration and hyperbole" is a product of the anti-AGW crowd counter propaganda. For those who regard AGW as a political issue, that kind of thing is understandable and is found on both sides of the issue.

What I have never understood is why AGW is a Christian issue.

Herman Hedning said:

If you read the report you will find out.

Click to expand...

I'm not reading through 20 pages. Just tell us.

Apple Sky said:

So you too are a 'YouTube groupie'

Click to expand...

No.
I looked for Charles' testimony on YouTube because you watched it on YouTube when someone else gave you the link.
Also, I'm not in America and have no other way of watching him.

Stop trying to change the subject.
Was Charles lying when he said, "Either Jesus' claim to be the Way, the Truth and the Life is true or it's the biggest con in history"?
Was he lying when he said that his wife was on the verge of suicide and had tried everything - except Jesus?

Abraham1st said:

This is to keep His commandment and also to receive the Holy Spirit as PROVEN BELOW, we see no example in the new testament of anyone receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit by keeping of commandments as you sadly insist without one credible back up SO FAR.

Click to expand...

I believe the popular teaching that God doesn't give His Spirit to those who yield themselves to Him in obedience to His Judgments and Commandments, is one of many false teachings. I would like to share the reason for this understanding in the hope that you might also consider "ALL" that is written on the topic. Starting with the witness of the very first Church of God under God's Prophesied New Priest.

Acts 5: 28 Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us. 29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. 30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. 31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. 32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, "whom God hath given" to them "that obey him".

This was confirmed by the Scriptural account of the first Church of God under authority of His Prophesied Priest, "After the Order of Melchizedek". These Faithful men, who had "Yielded themselves" to God, and their bodies as instruments of Righteousness unto God, (God's Righteousness of course) had observed the Feast of Unleavened bread, and had counted the Sabbaths correctly in order to be gathered on Pentecost, according to the Commandment of God. And these men most certainly received the Holy Spirit as Peter Witnessed. While the mainstream preachers of their time, who professed to know God, but who were teaching for doctrines the commandments of men, and not God, received not the Holy Spirit. It is confirmed again in Luke 1&2 where Zacharias, a faithful man who had "yielded himself" in obedience to God's Commandments, was blessed with the Spirit of God and therefore Knew Jesus, and exhibited the Faith of Jesus, even before HE was born. While the mainstream preachers of that time, with all their religious schools and great theological minds, full well rejected the Commandments of God, and didn't know the Christ, even after HE raised men from the dead right in front of them.

Caleb, Zacharias, Simeon and Anna, Shadrack, Meshack and Abednego and others, all received God's Spirit, just as Abraham did, "Because" they believed in God enough to become a "Doer" of His Commandments, not hearers only. As it is written, even satan knows Jesus is the Christ. But these men, who Honored God with more than their lips, were the blessed ones.

Paul taught this over and over.

Rom. 2: 13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

But the mainstream preachers of this world never taught obedience to God, and still don't. They have their own righteousness, their own Judgments, their own high days and sabbaths. Both Jesus and Paul fought against and exposed the "leaven" promoted by the religions of the world of their times, just as I battle against the influences of the philosophies and traditions of men promoted by this world's religions in the world God placed me in. This battle can be seen in all of Paul's Epistles, in my view.

5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart "treasurest up unto thyself" wrath against the day of wrath and revelation "of the righteous judgment of God";

6 Who will render to every man "according to his deeds":

7 "To them" who by "patient continuance in well doing" seek for" glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 "But unto them" that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, "but obey unrighteousness", indignation and wrath,

This is why God gave His Holy Spirit to those in Acts who turned away from the mainstream preachers of that time, who promoted their own Laws, their own high days, their own righteousness, and followed instead, the instructions of Jesus to "Live By" God's Words, and then Paul, who taught the same to both Jew and Gentile " that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance."

Once a man accepts Jesus teaching about the mainstream preachers of His Time, who had and promoted "LAW", but not God's Law, Paul's words carry a different meaning.

Phil. 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; 6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, (Of the Pharisees) "blameless".

In this worlds religions, they promote almost universally, that the Pharisees were trying to "earn Salvation" by being obedience to God's Commandments. This is probably one of the most insidious and deceitful lies promoted by the prince of this world. EVERY Word of Jesus, in which he defines the religious rulers of His Time, exposes this teaching as false. And yet this "leaven" persists and has grown though out the entire body just as Jesus warns. Consider Paul teaching in Philippians when the "Truth" about the Law of the Pharisees is accepted.

Phil. 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

9 And be found in him, not having "mine own righteousness", which is "of the law", (What LAW, the Commandments of men the Pharisees taught for Doctrines??) but that which is through the faith of Christ, (Who Humbled Himself in obedience to god, unto death) the righteousness which is of God by faith: (Shadrack had this Faith)

You and I have been taught since our youth, that Paul is speaking about the Laws of God here. But what does Paul himself teach about the Righteousness of the Pharisees and their "law"?

3 For they (Rebellious Jews) being "ignorant of God's righteousness", and going about to establish "their own righteousness", have "not submitted themselves" unto the righteousness of God.

Paul is saying here that he doesn't want to be found by Christ when HE returns, "having his own righteousness", which is of the Pharisees Law that he just told us he was "Zealous for". But the Righteousness which is of God, by belief in God, AKA "FAITH". That is, the Faith of Jesus, who being found in the fashion of a man, "Yielded Himself" a servant to Obey God, not the religious traditions and philosophies of man.

I hope you will consider.

Strong in Him said:

Charles became a Christian, after he went to and walked on, the moon.


Yes. Your answer is .........?

Kenneth Copeland believes in Jesus and teaches Jesus.
He is not correct when he teaches the prosperity Gospel, but that does not mean he lies about Jesus being his Saviour.

If Charles Duke is lying when he says "I walked on the moon", then he is also lying when he says that writes about Jesus, his Saviour and says that meeting Jesus was the best part of his life.

Why?
Charles either lied about walking in the moon and is lying about Jesus - in which case you'd expect God to punish him.
Or he is telling the truth about both.


Have you heard Charles' testimony - of how he was going through a difficult time with trouble in his marriage, and then he met Jesus? They had been a "religious" family for a while, but they didn't know Jesus. In 1975 his wife was on the verge of suicide.
Watch it, if you dare.
Login to view embedded media If you can't bear to watch the factual stuff about the moon, start it at 31 minutes in.

Even @Apple Sky has watched it, said that she honestly believed it and it briefly changed her life. (Until she changed her mind again.)

We are not talking about a one time, off the cuff lie to try to impress a friend or get out of a difficult situation. We are talking about a public testimony and Christian preaching ministry. He has been, and maybe still is, invited to churches. It's possible that unbelievers come to Christ when they hear his testimony.

When Charles heard the words, "Jesus said 'I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, no one comes to the Father except by me'," he said to himself, "either that's the truth or the biggest con in history".
What do you say - was he lying?

Click to expand...

So you too are a 'YouTube groupie'

I prayed too.

Strong in Him said:

No.
John wrote in his letter, "I write this so that you will KNOW".

We were far from God in our sin. Being reconciled to him cost God his Son. Of course he wants us to know that we are his children. The whole of the NT talks of us being "in Christ". We are told to remain in the vine. We are told that we have every spiritual blessing in Christ. We are told there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ.
How can someone be in Christ and live their life in Christ, then meet with God and be afraid in case he might say "you're not mine"?

I guess you can never sing the hymn, "Blessed assurance", then?

Click to expand...

You do whatever you want, but I'm just telling you that 100% full confidence either way, is sin.

God Bless.

Hentenza said:

Already did. You missed it.

Click to expand...

As they say in England, "Right."

Fervent said:

Nope, it's a very significant difference. Deontological ethics are only one way to frame an objective morality, and in my opinion the weakest.

Click to expand...

Then it was a waste of our time in you bringing them up.

Fervent said:

Attacking objective morality based on perceived weaknesses of deontological ethics is attacking a man of straw.

Click to expand...

So we'll not mention deontology again. I hope.

Fervent said:

There certainly are significant disagreements, but the fact that human beings come to project their ethical frameworks on the Divine does not discredit the existence of a Divine standard.

Click to expand...

Ah, you mean deontology. I thought we weren't going to mention that again...

Fervent said:

I don't see vibrant disagreements and discussions on such matters as a problem, just a fact of seeing through a mirror darkly.

Click to expand...

It's the biggest problem that you have. What purpose can an objective morality have if we don't agree on what it is?

Fervent said:

No, I'm not in the business of moral dictates. Search your own heart.

Click to expand...

Exactly. Your source is silent on the matter. So I have to make that moral decision myself. Again, thanks for pointing that out.

Always in His Presence said:

That is not their stated purpose - from their own mouths - their purpose is to eliminate the Jews.

Click to expand...

That may be, but you were referring to their charter, which I quoted.

Apple Sky said:

This article said;
'In the triumph of the day, no one at the tracking stations considered these differences and certainly the public was unaware. The engineers boxed the one-inch telemetry tapes wound onto 14-inch canister reels-which served no other purpose than to provide backup if the live relay failed-and shipped them to the Goddard Space Flight Center. From there, the tapes were sent to the Washington National Records Center (WRNC) in Suitland, Md. The engineers never saw the back-up telemetry tapes again.'

I wander why ? Like I've always said, they are all in cahoots together.

Click to expand...

If you read the report you will find out.