Hebrews 6 is not addressing a believer falling away and losing their eternal life or another way of saying a believer crossing back over from life to death and becoming un-born again.

Hebrews is addressing a fallen away believer being renewed to repentance not renewing back to eternal life.
The act of repentance is being addressed, not the receiving eternal life again, by a fallen away believer.
The type of believers being addressed are ones who fall away so far from a relationship with God their Father and back into the world. That it is impossible to restore them back into fellowship with God by repenting of their sin or sins.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Platte said:

There really should be no debate that the Bible teaches that Creation was ~6000 years ago (based on the geneologies) and took 6 days to complete. But I think 2PhiloVoid got it right...many are trying to conform what the Bible says to match what their scientific belief is. Scientific belief that is not based on facts...but on theories.

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hi Platte thank you for your reply but if you are right how do you account for God flooding the world and destroying everything he created before the flood

love and peace
Dave

Ophiolite said:

If I follow your mode of rhetoric I would conclude that either you are just set on being contrary, or your reading comprehension is sub-par.

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Says the recalcitrant procrastinating ape.

NewLifeInChristJesus said:

I think I see what you're saying. You are saying...

1) A believer does not have God's permission to sin after salvation, and
2) If a believer sins, then he fails to live up to his responsibility for maintaining his relationship with God and he must pay the consequences.

This sounds like something someone would say who has found a way to not count his own sins and sinfulness against himself.

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I don't see how that works. If there are consequences, then the sins are counted against him. In your theology, however, no sins past, present, or future seem to be counted against him because his salvation is guaranteed regardless.

public hermit said:

A possible misconception about Black Sabbath and Ozzy is that they promoted evil. There are definitely songs that speak about evil, but they are often more like commentary. When preachers railed against Ozzy in the 80s it showed their ignorance, and when Ozzy replied that he was a Christian, he was being sincere. Some of his (Sabbath's) music had explicitly Christian lyrics, e.g., After Forever, which is a positive take on faith in Christ. That's not to say Sabbath or Ozzy were "Christian" bands, lol, but they weren't pure evil, either.

I saw Sabbath in DC for their last tour and was so pumped that they played it.

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Yeah, and understandably this is why Paul said to not have the APPEARANCE of evil. That's the thing with Heavy Metal and Horror Movies, is that why they are not in support of these themes in their content, its intended to be scary, because they take on an "appearance of evil" as part of their theatrics in trying to be scary, people interpret them to be truly evil.

Some people will kneejerk about a horror movie with occult themes as "see they're devil worshipers!" no, they don't worship that stuff, they think it's scary, they put the stuff in their film because they want their film to be scary, because the idea is, that people get adrenaline and excitement from being scared... but with safety, to feel in danger, but not actually be in danger. Same concept as skydiving and roller coasters (except a scary movie is less likely to go wrong and end up with a serious injury or death), so demons, zombies, psychopath killers.. all that stuff is intended to make you feel like you're in danger, and be adrenaline/excitement, without physically being in danger.
Heavy Metal, same concept, was intended to be "scary rock n roll", same themes in the content, because it's scary.

as for Ozzy's spirituality, it's hard to say, privately they were "cultural Christians" for sure, as to their actual beliefs, we don't know for sure, that's between them and God, however the drug and alcohol abuse doesn't offer a lot of good evidence, so we can't be confident in his ultimate destination. We can hope he was a believer.

Belk said:

I thought my ideas were expensive. While I don't disagree with your points you are talking about a massive build up of our current legal infrastructure. Both on the prosecution and the public defense sides along with increased need for courts.

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Yes, and it's an almost insurmountable problem. But I take issue with those who support police reform and training as the solution. Are we going to train the police to be happy and efficient when the guy that is shooting at them now is the same guy they arrested for shooting at them last week? Shall we train them to not to be hostile and defensive when they stop a car known to belong to an individual with two convictions for armed assault in the last three years? The fellow who shot the ICE officer had a rap sheet that included arrests for felony grand larceny, second degree assault, third degree assault, criminal contempt of court, petty larceny and reckless driving and was currently wanted for armed robbery--all in the two years since he came into the country. What shall we do about it? I know, let's blame Biden and throw the guy back into the briar patch he came out of. Right. If he hadn't turned out to be an illegal alien he'd probably be back on the street by now.

Chesterton said:

I'm curious to get anyone else's opinion on whether Ozzy and Sabbath "borrowed" from Coven. Wiki: (granted, there are a couple of "citation needed")

• Coven employed the sign of the horns in a musical and satanic context for the first time. Shortly thereafter Geezer Butler would employ that same sign, and it would eventually be popularized in the heavy metal scene by Ronnie James Dio when he joined the British band, at Butler's own suggestion.[9]
• Coven's debut album features the song "Black Sabbath" and their bassist's name was Oz Osborne. Shortly after the release of that album, the British band decided to change their original band name, Earth, to Black Sabbath, and John Michael Osbourne decided that his stage name on the British band's debut would be Ozzy Osbourne.[citation needed]
• The promotional poster for Black Sabbath's debut album is virtually identical to the previous promotional poster for Coven's debut album.[citation needed]
• Lester Bangs of Rolling Stone described Black Sabbath's debut album as a "blend between Cream and Coven" and said they were "the English response to Coven".

Iommi has said they never heard of Coven until after Sabbath's first record, but that seems a little suspect to me.

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Without actual insight, its all a guess. My guess leans "borrowed". But I also give some credence to the phenomenon of people independently converging on similar ideas or behaviors around the same time. Yes this is mildly magically thinking - unless and until we know better.

More than 100 aid groups warn of 'mass starvation' in Gaza amid Israel's war with Hamas​

Their statement warned of "record rates of acute malnutrition."

The organizations warned that some aid workers are now joining food lines in Gaza, saying they are "risking being shot just to feed their families." Repeated deadly shootings around aid distribution centers have killed hundreds, according to the United Nations.

"90% of Gaza's population face difficulty accessing water," the director-general of the World Health Organization, Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, said in a press conference Wednesday.

The joint statement accused the Israeli government of implementing "restrictions, delays, and fragmentation" with a total siege of the Gaza Strip, resulting in "chaos, starvation, and death" of Palestinians.

Doctors Without Borders, Save the Children and Oxfam International were among the international aid groups that signed the statement.

Israeli Government Spokesman, David Mencer pushed back, saying "there is no famine" in Gaza, in an online briefing Wednesday.

He went on to say, "Hamas hammassed hamas hamas. Hamas hamas hamasly Hamas. Hamas."

Giant gladiolus

Fantine said:

It seems as if the Trump policies are primarily being undertaken to convince would-be immigrants--university students, refugees, etc.--that living in the United States would be so miserable and repressive that no one would want to come here.

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I suggest that we don't conflate the attack on the universities with the immigration issue. Obviously, Trump wants the elite very far left schools to be much weaker and for them to attract fewer foreign students. His attack on research and science could not be more damaging and reprehensible.
=========
BTW, if we removed all limits on the immigration of tech workers and researchers, we would have tens of thousands of more such workers each month, especially to take tech jobs not now being filled and those that will be created in the next decade. Trump may stop the flow of some, but many others want to come, especially from Asia.

essentialsaltes said:

Deaf, mute and terrified: ICE arrests DACA recipient and ships him to Texas​

He was on his way to wash a car when he glanced up and saw co-workers sprinting off. A woman frantically motioned for him to flee. His heart raced as he tried to find the source of their alarm.

Confused and frightened, Javier Diaz Santana jumped over the wall behind the car wash in the San Gabriel Valley. Years earlier, a vehicle had run over Diaz’s foot while he worked there, and it was a struggle for him to run. He made it about a block. His foot throbbed with pain.

One [officer] seemed to be demanding something. Diaz gestured at his ears.

He could not hear. And he couldn’t speak.

Diaz, 32, is deaf and communicates using sign language. He thought that presenting his Real ID driver’s license would keep him safe. He has legal permission to be here.

He took his wallet from his pocket. An agent grabbed it and wouldn’t give it back.

Diaz took out his phone so he could type a message about his disability. They took that too.

And so began a surreal near month Diaz never could have imagined taking place in the United States. He was sent to an immigration detention center in El Paso, where he spent weeks unable to communicate with his attorney or his family. At times, Diaz received paperwork in Spanish — a language he cannot read.

After the Times followed up again about that [DACA] protection, a senior DHS official said in an email, “Deferred action does not confer any form of legal status in this country.”

Diaz was released July 8. He is one of an unknown number of immigrants with permission to live and work in the U.S. who have been caught in the dragnet of President Trump’s deportation campaign.

“They really just don’t care if they have a work permit, if they have DACA, if they have [Temporary Protected Status] — they detain,” [lawyer] Muro said. “They’re just engaging in racial profiling. It’s nothing but that. They don’t care whether you stand and produce documents or run.”

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This is a consequence of allowing millions of illegals into the country. ICE showing up to arrest someone and all the illegals run. Even the illegals thought this guy was an illegal because they told him to run. Everyone runs and ICE has to chase. Of course they are going to think he's an illegal.

Once again they figured it out and let him go. You can argue that it shouldn't take weeks. Maybe it shouldn't. I don't know. Based upon their work load and the time it takes to verify somes identity, maybe weeks is what it takes. Maybe not. And since you aren't in that position to know, to claim it shouldn't is uninformed or speculative.

I fell it shouldn't take that long, but I'm ignorant on this.

The House GOP wants to get in on the act.

Texas seems to have broken up the logjam. Federal response to some other disasters is belatedly and slowly inching forward, months later.

FEMA moved quickly to help Texas. These other states are still waiting.​

Trump and the Federal Emergency Management Agency moved quickly to support Texas, approving Abbott’s disaster declaration the next day.

And the robust response to the flooding in Texas contrasts sharply with delays faced by other states that have sustained deadly floods and other disasters this year, FEMA staff and state disaster officials say.

Kentucky, Indiana, Michigan and West Virginia had been waiting since the spring for the federal government to approve their requests for assistance, with some governors continuously pushing the White House for answers.

Then, in a flurry of Truth Social posts Tuesday evening, Trump announced he had signed disaster declarations for those four states, freeing up millions of dollars in federal aid. [In some cases, only part of the request is being approved.]

At least six states and two Native American tribes are still waiting for the president and FEMA to approve their requests for disaster response and recovery assistance. Critical services such as temporary housing, unemployment assistance, search-and-rescue crews and debris removal are also on hold because of bureaucratic obstacles at the Department of Homeland Security, according to FEMA staffers, state disaster declaration requests and internal agency data obtained by The Washington Post.

Shortly after the publication of this article, Oregon and New Mexico officially received their disaster declarations, according to documents seen by The Post.

“FEMA is built to move fast when lives and infrastructure are on the line,” said a FEMA official with extensive experience in disaster response. “But it can’t do that if our highest levels of elected leadership treat disasters as inconvenient — or worse, as inconsistent with a selected narrative.”

State and local governments and struggling residents in ... Maryland, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, the Rosebud Sioux Tribe in South Dakota and Robinson Rancheria of Pomo Indians of California continue to wait for financial assistance and other resources to help them rebuild and pay for medical aid, funerals, first aid kits, infant formula, diapers and hotels, according to FEMA data and state disaster declarations obtained by The Post.

Many of the delays [in funding particular expenses] stem from a new policy requiring Homeland Security Secretary Kristi L. Noem to approve all FEMA expenses over $100,000.

According to the FEMA data, officials have been filling out multiple, redundant memo templates to justify needed services, leaving notes detailing the dire consequences of ignoring the requests. In many cases, staffers then hand-deliver the memos to the office of acting FEMA administrator David Richardson, so he can forward them to Noem.

“This isn’t just bureaucracy — it’s a system stall. Communities are waiting while their declaration requests collect dust,” said the FEMA official, who has responded to 20 disasters. “That kind of delay doesn’t happen by accident — it happens when things upstream are broken, sidelined or intentionally buried.”

I'm curious to get anyone else's opinion on whether Ozzy and Sabbath "borrowed" from Coven. Wiki: (granted, there are a couple of "citation needed")

• Coven employed the sign of the horns in a musical and satanic context for the first time. Shortly thereafter Geezer Butler would employ that same sign, and it would eventually be popularized in the heavy metal scene by Ronnie James Dio when he joined the British band, at Butler's own suggestion.[9]
• Coven's debut album features the song "Black Sabbath" and their bassist's name was Oz Osborne. Shortly after the release of that album, the British band decided to change their original band name, Earth, to Black Sabbath, and John Michael Osbourne decided that his stage name on the British band's debut would be Ozzy Osbourne.[citation needed]
• The promotional poster for Black Sabbath's debut album is virtually identical to the previous promotional poster for Coven's debut album.[citation needed]
• Lester Bangs of Rolling Stone described Black Sabbath's debut album as a "blend between Cream and Coven" and said they were "the English response to Coven".

Iommi has said they never heard of Coven until after Sabbath's first record, but that seems a little suspect to me.

Edit: I once heard Gene Simmons claiming he invented the "sign of the horns". Dude, you're not even close.

RDKirk said:

Regarding fighting against the system in that way, I sympathize with the lack of money, but it's going to make the matters worse.

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Worse for society. Not worse for those people. If you want people to have more kids, then go back to the way things were in the 50s and 60s, when it wasn't economically damaging to have more kids.

Appealing to social responsibility has the same effect on a middle-class or working -class couple as it has on Jeff Bezos. Make it economically advantageous to do the right thing, than then they will do it.

Fantine said:

.

I am still uncertain about what Biden did that was so bad. .

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What you seem to be saying is that Biden TRIED to be humane and to solve the border crisis.

I agree.

HOWEVER, his approach was an utter failure. Millions came through. Many, many went to places throughout the country to places where ICE is having difficulty finding them. Criminal gangs were taking advantage of the policies in order to traffic people and drugs into the US, and guns into Mexico.

When Biden finally realized his error, he backed a compromise bill that had the goal of a small increase in ICE funds and a few steps to secure the border. Yes, the bill should have been improved. Trump said NO, and that it wasn't necessary. Trump said the flow could quickly be slowed by executive action. Biden started to act and to decrease the flow. Trump has continued and the numbers are tiny. The bill was NOT needed. The current law has a much better chance of doing what the country once: stop the bleeding, stop the CRISIS of millions gathering throughout South and Central America in order to enter the US illegally or in order to seek asylum at the border after turning themselves in.

ozso said:

Considering how many Church clergy have been discovered to have been doing abhorrent things with children without anyone, including other clergy, being aware, apparently it happens. Or it's other clergy was aware, but keept it under wraps. Wasn't a certain Archbishop Joseph Ratzinger said to be one of the former?

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You are trying to give him a pass with obfuscation. STOP IT!

davetaff said:

Hi
Bean thinking if a unbeliever came in here looking for answers I think he would be very disappointed seeing everyone fighting and bickering like little kids in a sand pit who could make the biggest sand castle.
That we have different opinions on how to interpret the scriptures but we must interpret then so that they comply with all of scripture not jest part of it so we should word our answers in a way that is not offensive.

Love and Peace
Dave

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There really should be no debate that the Bible teaches that Creation was ~6000 years ago (based on the geneologies) and took 6 days to complete. But I think 2PhiloVoid got it right...many are trying to conform what the Bible says to match what their scientific belief is. Scientific belief that is not based on facts...but on theories.

fhansen said:

I'm saying that being a believer:
1) is not a license to remain in our sins, not even close
2) does not guarantee immunity from sin

To the extent that you can reconcile these two positions you'll better understand the gospel. It's about a partnership, a realtionship that man was created for, and that he has a certain responsibility for maintaining as with any realtionship. Sin/unrighteousness can most definitely destroy that relationship wth God.

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I think I see what you're saying. You are saying...

1) A believer does not have God's permission to sin after salvation, and
2) If a believer sins, then he fails to live up to his responsibility for maintaining his relationship with God and he must pay the consequences.

This sounds like something someone would say who has found a way to not count his own sins and sinfulness against himself.

Grafted In said:

In my opinion based on my interpretation of Scripture on the whole, governments and their policies are established by none other than God, Himself.
We abide in His Kingdome and no earthly power can touch that.
I think it was wrong for our early founders to try to establish a "Christian" nation.
He blesses us according to our own, personal relationship with Him and where we abide has no part.
That's the world.

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Our founders weren’t trying to establish a Christian nation, that was the whole point of not being under British rule, to escape having a national religion. The founding fathers unanimously agreed (even the atheist among them) that there needed to be a higher power’s moral code to base our justice system on (since each person has a different moral code of their own (or none at all)), and they looked at all the religions that claimed to have a higher power’s moral code to see what kind of moral/justice system it had to see how fair it was to people of all/no religions, and Christianity’s moral stance was what they determined was fairest for all people and religions. That doesn’t mean it is a Christian nation, just that it creates the fairest justice system.

I know that people point at the flaws of people who call themselves Christian and use that to demonstrate how bad Christianity is, but that’s an inaccurate way to look at it because all people are flawed. Only Christ was perfect. That is the core concept of Christianity, it’s how you seek to improve yourself to be more Christ-centered that the founding fathers found to be a favorable concept to base the justice system on.

BCP1928 said:

Yet you argue for a system in which pay and working conditions are set unilaterally by the employer and the worker can only take it or leave it.

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I wasn't arguing for anything. I was just indicating what is. And there is nothing preventing an employee asking for more pay. Right now in the system we have an employee can sit with an employer and unilaterally figure something out. Even in a free market the employer can say no, correct? In free market the employer still can set a wage limit or limits on benefits and conditions.

BCP1928 said:

I'm not just being pedantic, but in economic theory a free market is well defined and I see a tendency in conservatives to redefine a free market as one which is "free" of government regulation, which is nefarious and has egregious effects well beyond the labor market.

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I don't think we can ever be free of government regulation. Nor should we be. No regulation could be disastrous on many levels Some regulation is necessary. But we are over regulated now which also has negative effects. A balance needs to found.

Desk trauma said:

Still not as lucrative as yelling slurs on a playground:

Woman caught in "N-word" tirade in Rochester raises $600K via fundraiser, sparking community backlash​

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The added insult to injury is that the victim's fundraiser pulled in less.

That'll teach this political correctness run amok!

Job 33:6 said:

The fossil record exists and it parallels phylogenies of the field of genetics.

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lifepsyop said:

I think the theory is often advertised that way, but it's not really true.

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Well, let's take a look...


Looks pretty close to me.

lifepsyop said:

There are not really anything like rigid genetic or 'molecular clocks' that confirm or parallels a timeline of when something supposedly evolved. I think that was actually predicted by geneticists at one point, but eventually given up on because it was a mess.

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See above.

lifepsyop said:

right, evolution is *the* natural explanation.
science is methodological naturalism.

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So is plumbing. For the same reasons.

lifepsyop said:

thus science applied to history can *only* see an evolutionary explanation,

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There was science before evolutionary theory. You were badly misled about that.

lifepsyop said:

i.e. natural process/development. there are no competitors.

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It's at least conceptually possible that hydraulic fairies make my shower work. But it's not much use to the guys redoing my bathroom.

lifepsyop said:

this is a philosophical/ontological question, not a scientific one.

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Which is why science and plumbing stick to observable phenomena to make it work. Go figure.

Desk trauma said:

We may have gone around on this before but I think this would be the most effective way to end police closing ranks around bad actors or shuffling them off to other departments.

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The issue there is pensions are a pool. You are asking to punish the good actors along with the bad in order to enforce compliance with a desired ethical outcome. That does not strike me as a good methodology. I think the better way is to make high ethical standards the bar and have individualized enforcement much like we do with the military. By all means punish individual officers by removing their pension, but don't make the pension fund a slush fund for litigation. That will just encourage unscrupulous behavior in litigants.