zippy2006 said:

@Bradskii - So you use a label, "absolute morality," in order to try to label and disparage a certain moral view.

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Well...yes. It's kinda hard to reject what people describe as absolute morality without referring to...what they mean by absolute morality.

zippy2006 said:

Yet it turns out that on your definition of absolute morality you yourself are a moral absolutist.

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No, that's what you have claimed. I have given examples of making a decision on a moral matter which was entirely relative to the context. It really can't be described as anything other than an example of a relative morality. But you have called it an example of absolute morality. Which is plainly ridiculous. Do I have to describe what the difference is to you?

Lying is always wrong: That's absolute morality.
Lying is right or wrong depending on the context: That's relative morality.

I gave examples of the second, where lying was determined to be right or wrong relative to the context. And you have said that they are examples of the first.

zippy2006 said:

Most people like yourself who are trying to declare victory without doing anything prefer to leave the term undefined to avoid this sort of foot-shooting.

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It's been defined umpteen times.

zippy2006 said:

How frightening it must have been to find out that, according to your own definition of moral absolutism, you yourself are one of the dreaded moral absolutists!

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I should put a little sigh emoticon in at this point.

RamiC said:

You have not provided any science based explanation as to what the mind is yet, and without any objective definition of "normal" there is no telling what functional verses dysfunctional is.

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This is nonsense, I stated what science recognizes as the mind in its close association with brain structures.

RamiC said:

If it is about the brain, it is neurology, but you are saying this association exists without an answer regarding what the "mind" that is associated with the brain is. A brain scan can show proof of strong emotion, we know this can also be seen in the form of chemical changes to the blood, but that does not make the shock of bereavement and experience of grief a brain dysfunction that needs to be called a "disease" and cured with a pill. So what I am saying is that brain activity is our lives on earth being lived, that is the scientific, medical, definition of life.

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As far as science is concerned, the brain and mind are synonymous. Because science only deals with empirical questions, not introspective ones.

RamiC said:

There is a link in my post, to the article I was quoting, I provided my source.

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You seem to be misunderstanding what it's saying there, because it's stating that these mental illnesses are often missed and given different diagnoses.

RamiC said:

Oh I have questions about the success rates of treating many conditions that are called "mental health problems" yes. I just do not want anybody reading this thread to do anything too dangerous or sudden because of it. The fact that it is dangerous to suddenly stop taking mental health medication is known, the risk applies regardless of the poor rates of accurate diagnosis, inadequate pathology, the harm done by medicalising human emotional responses to life events, and the low rates of actually being able to cure any mental health condition (that is by comparison to Dr's ability to actually define, identify conditions, and provide cures in other medical specialties).

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Improving awareness of the associated symptoms of various mental health conditions among general practitioners to improve accurate diagnoses is far removed from what you seem to be trying to argue. From what I can gather, you're speaking on things which you have little personal experience and are misunderstanding studiies conclusions through deceptive quotation.

RamiC said:

I care deeply about the entirely real sufferring, hence my concerns about the situation as it presently is, and my interest in the possibilties for accurate knowledge and effective solutions. I do not believe that all human suffering has to be "medical", physiological, or even identifiable by scientific methods to be absolutely real. There is a difference between believing that psychology and psychiatry are getting everything right, and caring about the increasing and already great amounts of mind related suffering people are clearly experiencing. As a society, I believe we must start defeating the high rates of mental and emotional struggles that are happening, I just do not see enough objective evidence that labels and psychoactive drugs are a safe or effective way to acheive that in a lot of cases.

Please note - to all who have mental health problems - do not suddenly stop taking your medication, if you wish to cease taking it, get proffessional help, I believe your suffering is real, and I do not mean that you just lack faith. Whatever you are living with or in, Jesus cares.

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SabbathBlessings said:

So God’s commandments are not His laws. And His laws are what you say they are not what He said, who personally wrote them and are under His mercy seat.

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There was no God given law in the garden other than not eating from the tree of life. Do you have evidence to the contrary?

I think it’s amusing and telling that the folks worried about some gayness in an obscure kids show are perfectly okay with the rampant consumerism and overconsumption pumped into their eyeballs non-stop in virtually every other kids show.

Oh, and the crippling depression that comes from being absorbed in the world of social media that Musk is selling.

Defund PBS but fork over billions upon billions to the leeches who make all this other stuff.

SabbathBlessings said:

He is telling His people where to flee, if the Sabbath ended, there would be no point for His direction to His people .

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Correction. He is telling the people of Judea where to flee. The people in Judea are the ones that need to pray that it doesn’t happen on the sabbath.

SabbathBlessings said:

Mat 5:19 says not to break or teach others to break the least of His commandments and than quotes two right from the unit of Ten to know which ones He is talking about. They came in a unit of Ten, not 9. Nine is an un local number undoing what God placed together. Honestly, this is really saying one knows better than God.

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This does not advance your argument. Nothing here about the 4th commandment required of the Christian.

Chesterton said:

And today it's the party of Antifa and BLM.

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Bah! It's the party of elitist neoliberals. They were just using Antifa and the BLM--much as the Republican party uses the Christian Right.

Carl Emerson said:

Sometimes the root cause of mental health is spiritual - that is why we see Christian Psychiatrists in our country leaving the profession so they can deal with the spiritual cause as Christian Counsellors.
They have concluded they are not dealing with a physical cause.

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Who concluded that? What are their credentials? And how did they come to their conclusions?

Carl Emerson said:

Controlling symptoms with medication may bring relief, but the primary cause is often left untouched.

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If medication alleviates symptoms, that demonstrates the physiological basis. Medication is one avenue of multifaceted treatment.

But it is extremely damaging to people who actually have to live with these conditions to trivialize them and add to the stigma by ignoring the physiological element.

zippy2006 said:

Do you have real examples of this?

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Login to view embedded media Login to view embedded media Login to view embedded media Here's a supercut with a 4 examples (I think one or two might be repeats from above): Marco Foster (@marco.foster) on Threads

Note that these go back to August of 2024.

zippy2006 said:

I found a single instance of Trump calling Harris a fascist, and it was in response to her calling him a fascist.

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Why he called her a fascist (and that's only one of the examples I posted) isn't relevant if your argument is that calling people fascists results in violence. "She called me a fascist, but she's the real fascist!" is still inflammatory.

zippy2006 said:

It is a false equivalence to compare these terms to "Hitler." You're reaching.

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Did I make that comparison? No, I did not.

We're talking about inflammatory rhetoric in general that might drive people to violence. It's not like "Hitler" is a magic word that turns human beings murderous.

FredVB said:

If voting is ever mandatory writing in one's separate choice should be our right anyway. Others to choose are preselected, and should not be who we have to choose between. There is reason to not keep trusting government and those in it. Government never gets better, it never has.

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Yes and no. Government can be "God's servants to do you good" as Paul wrote in Romans 13 - or become corrupt and like one of the many beasts we see in scripture - persecuting God's people - as in Daniel or Revelation. Try this episode of Undeceptions - it has some mind-blowing content! I love this podcast!

FredVB said:

Worse people get into it, and it would get worse, as it will.

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You don't know that.
You don't know the future.

FredVB said:

Only revolution ever changes anything for that, and still with further government afterward any betterment will not last.

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Yes and no.
Romans 13 still applies today - until they start rounding up God's people and demand they worship something else. Then it's time to flee or time to die!

FredVB said:

Democracy may be better than other ways but it does not stop this, while people still trust in their voting.

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Ah - so that's it!
You're just coming into the political forum to have a go at us people that like to actually engage with the system as commanded in Romans 13!

Well - right back at you.

Why do you ignore Romans 13?

Do you not owe the authorities not just your taxes, not just your obedience in all matters of the law - but also your honour?
And if they ask you to vote and have some civil engagement - why do you ignore that? You could be working to help improve society a little - acting as salt and light on your watch?

Why are you abandoning this responsibility?
Worse - why are you trying to guilt and discourage your fellow citizens who are taking this responsibility seriously?

SabbathBlessings said:

Sin was imputed at the garden, why Adam and Eve lost their robe of righteousness, lost the right to eat from the tree of life, and were kicked out Eden guarded at the entrance by an angel so they could not come back in. Where there is no law, there is no sin Rom 4:15

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Right so there was no law in the garden. In fact their law was simply one, don’t eat from the tree of life which led to original sin which was the only imputed sin that caused the death of everyone until Moses.

SabbathBlessings said:

All of that gets restored for His faithful Rev 22:14 back to God’s perfect plan before sin hijacked the world.

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Nothing here about the law.

zippy2006 said:

For all of human history violence is justified against the outsider, and so if you can convince enough people that someone is an outsider ("extremist") then violence will follow of its own accord.

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A line from the Life of Brian keeps popping up in my head whenever Kirk is mentioned. 'He's not a far right extremist. He's just a very naughty boy'.

ralliann said:

No did not miss that.
The death of all men
28 And Moses said, Hereby ye shall know that the LORD hath sent me to do all these works; for I have not done them of mine own mind.
29 If these men die the common death of all men, or if they be visited after the visitation of all men; then the LORD hath not sent me. {the common … : Heb. as every man dieth }
30 But if the LORD make a new thing, and the earth open her mouth, and swallow them up, with all that appertain unto them, and they go down quick into the pit; then ye shall understand that these men have provoked the LORD.

The common death of all men

Nu 23:10 Who can count the dust of Jacob, and the number of the fourth part of Israel? Let me die the death of the righteous, and let my last end be like his! From Adam

Isreal was called out of Egypt to brings God's judgement upon the nations. They were to destroy them all in many cases

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Ok so then explain what your argument is. I don’t see anything in your post that supports the law being in effect prior to Moses so please clarify. Thanks.

SabbathBlessings said:

Jesus telling His people to pray that the destruction of Jerusalem 40 years after His death , not be in the winter or on the Sabbath day is your version Jesus is telling His people that the Sabbath ended at the cross. So praying about not having destruction on the Sabbath day, one means Jesus didn‘t turn into a day and that it never ended. Changing His covenant after He died would require Jesus to die all over again and His death was once and for all. Why though faith, we should just believe Him at His word Psa 89:34 Mat 5:18-19 and not try to tell God which of His commandments are moral and righteous and which ones are not.

We are just going to have to wait until He comes back to sort this out . Our decisions at that time, will all be sealed Rev 22:11

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There is nothing in the whole of Matthew 5 teaching any kind of time frame or sabbath keeping. All of the events foretold by Christ in this chapter have not yet happened. Jesus does not have to die again to become the Lord of the Sabbath nor does He have to die again for the believer to enter His rest. In addition, we have to be aware of Jewish customs and practices regarding the Sabbath. Jesus gave his warning to the disciples because of the possibility that Jewish people in Jerusalem and Judea would have prevented Christians from fleeing on the Sabbath. Note that the warning was given “to those who are in Judea” (verse 16), not to disciples in other parts of the world.

Hentenza said:

You missed Rom. 5:14.

“Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the violation committed by Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5‬:‭14‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the violation committed by Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The

Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the violation committed by Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

bible.com

All that died between creation and Moses died because of imputed sin from original sin not because they were convicted by the law. Even on Gen 26:5 that you posted it tells you that there was no law to impute sin. Please read the verses again.

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No did not miss that.
The death of all men
28 And Moses said, Hereby ye shall know that the LORD hath sent me to do all these works; for I have not done them of mine own mind.
29 If these men die the common death of all men, or if they be visited after the visitation of all men; then the LORD hath not sent me. {the common … : Heb. as every man dieth }
30 But if the LORD make a new thing, and the earth open her mouth, and swallow them up, with all that appertain unto them, and they go down quick into the pit; then ye shall understand that these men have provoked the LORD.

The common death of all men

Nu 23:10 Who can count the dust of Jacob, and the number of the fourth part of Israel? Let me die the death of the righteous, and let my last end be like his!

Isreal was called out of Egypt to brings God's judgement upon the nations. They were to destroy them all in many cases

Ro 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Hans Blaster said:

That is dumb geography. Lake Michigan is separated from any body of water shared with Canada by the Straits of Mackinac which is narrow enough that I have driven over it. There is a Coast Guard station just outside it at St. Ignace.

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It’s irrelevant. See post #34 and 36

HARK! said:

The vast majority of these criminals who claim that they are seeking asylum do not have valid claims.

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Evidence? Oh - and as we have shown - they might be undocumented - but they're not as criminal as American born citizens with half the violent crime, a quarter of the theft, etc. It might be fun to get all judgie and repeat 'criminals' because they fled some horrible poverty - but remember God's heart for the poor? How do you think God sees these people? They might have broken national boundary laws - but if you want to rate them by biblical standards of law - go ahead and check out how God asked Israel to treat the alien?

HARK! said:

The criminals who cross the border illegally

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Using tautologies to hammer your point?

HARK! said:

cut to the front of the line,

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In some countries the American embassy is watched by people who will do bad things to refugees trying to flee by proper means. By all means push the tired old meme of an orderly queue - but next time you have YOUR teenage daughter kidnapped by drug-gangs you couldn't pay your 'protection money' to - and she's sold into the sex trade - get back to us on the necessity of proper paper work!

HARK! said:

thereby prolonging the wait of those who are seeking asylum legitimately, and have been waiting for years.

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I hear you. So once again you have proved my point for me.
Wouldn't it be great if instead of multiplying the hostile kidnapping arm of ICE by 15 fold - Trump had maybe just DOUBLED the calm, orderly processing of undocumented migrants?

You know - even psychologically assess them - get back ground checks, and let in some of this river of gold legitimately to resolve the issues you've mentioned above.

Find the criminal and insane!
Process the law abiding and respectful!
Prevent those bosses operating indentured servitude like business models with the undocumented!

Trump would have had FAR more success just doubling the calm processing arm of immigration, than driving these people even further underground in a reign of terror that he's also using as a photo-op every time he calls in the National Guard!

("Look at how tough I am! I call in the National Guard on false pretences!")

HARK! said:

Do you support these criminals who make it more difficult for those who have valid claims, and those who are doing everything right?

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Do you support raising the racial tensions in America, masked men pulling families apart, the extremely controversial and expensive harnessing of the National Guard for pointless political theatre, and raising the ICE budget 15 fold rather than just doubling the processing of the undocumented hardworking MAJORITY?

There's one thing behind all this - a fear from WASPs that they will not be the majority any more in America.
That's it.

And Trump sure knows how to blow that dog-whistle! "Proud boys stand back and stand by!"

News items make good gossip.

turkey vulture

Fervent said:

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

Ok

There's always a physiological element to them. And the treatment is between the patients and their doctors.

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Sometimes the root cause of mental health is spiritual - that is why we see Christian Psychiatrists in our country leaving the profession so they can deal with the spiritual cause as Christian Counsellors.
They have concluded they are not dealing with a physical cause.

Controlling symptoms with medication may bring relief, but the primary cause is often left untouched.

RocksInMyHead said:

Considering the number of times Trump and his people called Harris and Democrats in general fascists, Marxists, enemies of the people, and evil over the course of the past year and a half, that doesn't track. Most Americans hadn't even heard of Charlie Kirk before his assassination, let alone that people were calling him a fascist.

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I knew of Kirk because I spend some time watching debates online. But I only had to watch him once or twice to realise that there wasn't much worth paying attention to.

Always in His Presence said:

Where does the government get its funds from?

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From imposts, duty and taxes. Same places it always has.

BCP1928 said:

That seems a stupid plan, but you never know with Trump. If he thought it would help him to the Peace Prize he would do it in a New York minute. But that would be for afters. Right now the fighting has to stop and in order to do that you have to deal with the people who are actually doing the fighting. Trying to find a more sympathetic leader who might go on be elected in hypothetical elections some time after the fighting has stopped begins to sound like an excuse to keep fighting. What authority would he have to have to order HAMAS to stop fighting? Why should HAMAS obey him?

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Trump just wants the destruction of Israel out if the middle East. That is what has caused all this mess from the beginning. If this ends less than peaceful, it is because of people that won't accept peace at all costs.

ralliann said:

Yes there was.
Gen 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
This was not law that imputed sin

Ro 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Law Abraham kept..... Imputed righteousness
Ro 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Ro 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
Ro 4:22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
Not written for Abraham alone but also us.....
Ro 4:23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
Ro 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

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You missed Rom. 5:14.

“Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the violation committed by Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5‬:‭14‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

All that died between creation and Moses died because of imputed sin from original sin not because they were convicted by the law. Even on Gen 26:5 that you posted it tells you that there was no law to impute sin. Please read the verses again.

Vambram said:

I still support Israel.

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What Matters is what Trump decides is right. He knows if Hamas is not gotten rid of, and the acceptance of Israel as nation is not accepted, this will happen again and again...Just as it always has.

HARK! said:

I'm not drinking that Kool-aid.

Biden's policies supported such things; and many Biden supporters supported his policies.

Can you prove that; or is this some new Left wing conspiracy theory?

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It's not a conspiracy if it's done openly.