SabbathBlessings said:

He is telling His people where to flee, if the Sabbath ended, there would be no point for His direction to His people .

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Correction. He is telling the people of Judea where to flee. The people in Judea are the ones that need to pray that it doesn’t happen on the sabbath.

SabbathBlessings said:

Mat 5:19 says not to break or teach others to break the least of His commandments and than quotes two right from the unit of Ten to know which ones He is talking about. They came in a unit of Ten, not 9. Nine is an un local number undoing what God placed together. Honestly, this is really saying one knows better than God.

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This does not advance your argument. Nothing here about the 4th commandment required of the Christian.

Chesterton said:

And today it's the party of Antifa and BLM.

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Bah! It's the party of elitist neoliberals. They were just using Antifa and the BLM--much as the Republican party uses the Christian Right.

Carl Emerson said:

Sometimes the root cause of mental health is spiritual - that is why we see Christian Psychiatrists in our country leaving the profession so they can deal with the spiritual cause as Christian Counsellors.
They have concluded they are not dealing with a physical cause.

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Who concluded that? What are their credentials? And how did they come to their conclusions?

Carl Emerson said:

Controlling symptoms with medication may bring relief, but the primary cause is often left untouched.

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If medication alleviates symptoms, that demonstrates the physiological basis. Medication is one avenue of multifaceted treatment.

But it is extremely damaging to people who actually have to live with these conditions to trivialize them and add to the stigma by ignoring the physiological element.

zippy2006 said:

Do you have real examples of this?

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Login to view embedded media Login to view embedded media Login to view embedded media Here's a supercut with a 4 examples (I think one or two might be repeats from above): Marco Foster (@marco.foster) on Threads

Note that these go back to August of 2024.

zippy2006 said:

I found a single instance of Trump calling Harris a fascist, and it was in response to her calling him a fascist.

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Why he called her a fascist (and that's only one of the examples I posted) isn't relevant if your argument is that calling people fascists results in violence. "She called me a fascist, but she's the real fascist!" is still inflammatory.

zippy2006 said:

It is a false equivalence to compare these terms to "Hitler." You're reaching.

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Did I make that comparison? No, I did not.

We're talking about inflammatory rhetoric in general that might drive people to violence. It's not like "Hitler" is a magic word that turns human beings murderous.

FredVB said:

If voting is ever mandatory writing in one's separate choice should be our right anyway. Others to choose are preselected, and should not be who we have to choose between. There is reason to not keep trusting government and those in it. Government never gets better, it never has.

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Yes and no. Government can be "God's servants to do you good" as Paul wrote in Romans 13 - or become corrupt and like one of the many beasts we see in scripture - persecuting God's people - as in Daniel or Revelation. Try this episode of Undeceptions - it has some mind-blowing content! I love this podcast!

FredVB said:

Worse people get into it, and it would get worse, as it will.

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You don't know that.
You don't know the future.

FredVB said:

Only revolution ever changes anything for that, and still with further government afterward any betterment will not last.

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Yes and no.
Romans 13 still applies today - until they start rounding up God's people and demand they worship something else. Then it's time to flee or time to die!

FredVB said:

Democracy may be better than other ways but it does not stop this, while people still trust in their voting.

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Ah - so that's it!
You're just coming into the political forum to have a go at us people that like to actually engage with the system as commanded in Romans 13!

Well - right back at you.

Why do you ignore Romans 13?

Do you not owe the authorities not just your taxes, not just your obedience in all matters of the law - but also your honour?
And if they ask you to vote and have some civil engagement - why do you ignore that? You could be working to help improve society a little - acting as salt and light on your watch?

Why are you abandoning this responsibility?
Worse - why are you trying to guilt and discourage your fellow citizens who are taking this responsibility seriously?

SabbathBlessings said:

Sin was imputed at the garden, why Adam and Eve lost their robe of righteousness, lost the right to eat from the tree of life, and were kicked out Eden guarded at the entrance by an angel so they could not come back in. Where there is no law, there is no sin Rom 4:15

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Right so there was no law in the garden. In fact their law was simply one, don’t eat from the tree of life which led to original sin which was the only imputed sin that caused the death of everyone until Moses.

SabbathBlessings said:

All of that gets restored for His faithful Rev 22:14 back to God’s perfect plan before sin hijacked the world.

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Nothing here about the law.

zippy2006 said:

For all of human history violence is justified against the outsider, and so if you can convince enough people that someone is an outsider ("extremist") then violence will follow of its own accord.

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A line from the Life of Brian keeps popping up in my head whenever Kirk is mentioned. 'He's not a far right extremist. He's just a very naughty boy'.

ralliann said:

No did not miss that.
The death of all men
28 And Moses said, Hereby ye shall know that the LORD hath sent me to do all these works; for I have not done them of mine own mind.
29 If these men die the common death of all men, or if they be visited after the visitation of all men; then the LORD hath not sent me. {the common … : Heb. as every man dieth }
30 But if the LORD make a new thing, and the earth open her mouth, and swallow them up, with all that appertain unto them, and they go down quick into the pit; then ye shall understand that these men have provoked the LORD.

The common death of all men

Nu 23:10 Who can count the dust of Jacob, and the number of the fourth part of Israel? Let me die the death of the righteous, and let my last end be like his! From Adam

Isreal was called out of Egypt to brings God's judgement upon the nations. They were to destroy them all in many cases

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Ok so then explain what your argument is. I don’t see anything in your post that supports the law being in effect prior to Moses so please clarify. Thanks.

SabbathBlessings said:

Jesus telling His people to pray that the destruction of Jerusalem 40 years after His death , not be in the winter or on the Sabbath day is your version Jesus is telling His people that the Sabbath ended at the cross. So praying about not having destruction on the Sabbath day, one means Jesus didn‘t turn into a day and that it never ended. Changing His covenant after He died would require Jesus to die all over again and His death was once and for all. Why though faith, we should just believe Him at His word Psa 89:34 Mat 5:18-19 and not try to tell God which of His commandments are moral and righteous and which ones are not.

We are just going to have to wait until He comes back to sort this out . Our decisions at that time, will all be sealed Rev 22:11

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There is nothing in the whole of Matthew 5 teaching any kind of time frame or sabbath keeping. All of the events foretold by Christ in this chapter have not yet happened. Jesus does not have to die again to become the Lord of the Sabbath nor does He have to die again for the believer to enter His rest. In addition, we have to be aware of Jewish customs and practices regarding the Sabbath. Jesus gave his warning to the disciples because of the possibility that Jewish people in Jerusalem and Judea would have prevented Christians from fleeing on the Sabbath. Note that the warning was given “to those who are in Judea” (verse 16), not to disciples in other parts of the world.

Hentenza said:

You missed Rom. 5:14.

“Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the violation committed by Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5‬:‭14‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the violation committed by Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The

Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the violation committed by Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

bible.com

All that died between creation and Moses died because of imputed sin from original sin not because they were convicted by the law. Even on Gen 26:5 that you posted it tells you that there was no law to impute sin. Please read the verses again.

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No did not miss that.
The death of all men
28 And Moses said, Hereby ye shall know that the LORD hath sent me to do all these works; for I have not done them of mine own mind.
29 If these men die the common death of all men, or if they be visited after the visitation of all men; then the LORD hath not sent me. {the common … : Heb. as every man dieth }
30 But if the LORD make a new thing, and the earth open her mouth, and swallow them up, with all that appertain unto them, and they go down quick into the pit; then ye shall understand that these men have provoked the LORD.

The common death of all men

Nu 23:10 Who can count the dust of Jacob, and the number of the fourth part of Israel? Let me die the death of the righteous, and let my last end be like his!

Isreal was called out of Egypt to brings God's judgement upon the nations. They were to destroy them all in many cases

Ro 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Hans Blaster said:

That is dumb geography. Lake Michigan is separated from any body of water shared with Canada by the Straits of Mackinac which is narrow enough that I have driven over it. There is a Coast Guard station just outside it at St. Ignace.

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It’s irrelevant. See post #34 and 36

HARK! said:

The vast majority of these criminals who claim that they are seeking asylum do not have valid claims.

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Evidence? Oh - and as we have shown - they might be undocumented - but they're not as criminal as American born citizens with half the violent crime, a quarter of the theft, etc. It might be fun to get all judgie and repeat 'criminals' because they fled some horrible poverty - but remember God's heart for the poor? How do you think God sees these people? They might have broken national boundary laws - but if you want to rate them by biblical standards of law - go ahead and check out how God asked Israel to treat the alien?

HARK! said:

The criminals who cross the border illegally

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Using tautologies to hammer your point?

HARK! said:

cut to the front of the line,

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In some countries the American embassy is watched by people who will do bad things to refugees trying to flee by proper means. By all means push the tired old meme of an orderly queue - but next time you have YOUR teenage daughter kidnapped by drug-gangs you couldn't pay your 'protection money' to - and she's sold into the sex trade - get back to us on the necessity of proper paper work!

HARK! said:

thereby prolonging the wait of those who are seeking asylum legitimately, and have been waiting for years.

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I hear you. So once again you have proved my point for me.
Wouldn't it be great if instead of multiplying the hostile kidnapping arm of ICE by 15 fold - Trump had maybe just DOUBLED the calm, orderly processing of undocumented migrants?

You know - even psychologically assess them - get back ground checks, and let in some of this river of gold legitimately to resolve the issues you've mentioned above.

Find the criminal and insane!
Process the law abiding and respectful!
Prevent those bosses operating indentured servitude like business models with the undocumented!

Trump would have had FAR more success just doubling the calm processing arm of immigration, than driving these people even further underground in a reign of terror that he's also using as a photo-op every time he calls in the National Guard!

("Look at how tough I am! I call in the National Guard on false pretences!")

HARK! said:

Do you support these criminals who make it more difficult for those who have valid claims, and those who are doing everything right?

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Do you support raising the racial tensions in America, masked men pulling families apart, the extremely controversial and expensive harnessing of the National Guard for pointless political theatre, and raising the ICE budget 15 fold rather than just doubling the processing of the undocumented hardworking MAJORITY?

There's one thing behind all this - a fear from WASPs that they will not be the majority any more in America.
That's it.

And Trump sure knows how to blow that dog-whistle! "Proud boys stand back and stand by!"

News items make good gossip.

turkey vulture

Fervent said:

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

Ok

There's always a physiological element to them. And the treatment is between the patients and their doctors.

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Sometimes the root cause of mental health is spiritual - that is why we see Christian Psychiatrists in our country leaving the profession so they can deal with the spiritual cause as Christian Counsellors.
They have concluded they are not dealing with a physical cause.

Controlling symptoms with medication may bring relief, but the primary cause is often left untouched.

RocksInMyHead said:

Considering the number of times Trump and his people called Harris and Democrats in general fascists, Marxists, enemies of the people, and evil over the course of the past year and a half, that doesn't track. Most Americans hadn't even heard of Charlie Kirk before his assassination, let alone that people were calling him a fascist.

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I knew of Kirk because I spend some time watching debates online. But I only had to watch him once or twice to realise that there wasn't much worth paying attention to.

Always in His Presence said:

Where does the government get its funds from?

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From imposts, duty and taxes. Same places it always has.

BCP1928 said:

That seems a stupid plan, but you never know with Trump. If he thought it would help him to the Peace Prize he would do it in a New York minute. But that would be for afters. Right now the fighting has to stop and in order to do that you have to deal with the people who are actually doing the fighting. Trying to find a more sympathetic leader who might go on be elected in hypothetical elections some time after the fighting has stopped begins to sound like an excuse to keep fighting. What authority would he have to have to order HAMAS to stop fighting? Why should HAMAS obey him?

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Trump just wants the destruction of Israel out if the middle East. That is what has caused all this mess from the beginning. If this ends less than peaceful, it is because of people that won't accept peace at all costs.

ralliann said:

Yes there was.
Gen 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
This was not law that imputed sin

Ro 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Law Abraham kept..... Imputed righteousness
Ro 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Ro 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
Ro 4:22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
Not written for Abraham alone but also us.....
Ro 4:23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
Ro 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

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You missed Rom. 5:14.

“Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the violation committed by Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5‬:‭14‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

All that died between creation and Moses died because of imputed sin from original sin not because they were convicted by the law. Even on Gen 26:5 that you posted it tells you that there was no law to impute sin. Please read the verses again.

Vambram said:

I still support Israel.

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What Matters is what Trump decides is right. He knows if Hamas is not gotten rid of, and the acceptance of Israel as nation is not accepted, this will happen again and again...Just as it always has.

HARK! said:

I'm not drinking that Kool-aid.

Biden's policies supported such things; and many Biden supporters supported his policies.

Can you prove that; or is this some new Left wing conspiracy theory?

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It's not a conspiracy if it's done openly.

HARK! said:

Does this mean that you are OK with unvetted insane, criminal, terrorists freely crossing our borders?

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Of course not.
And given the sheer numbers - there will be a few!

But here's the thing. Are you OK with Trump lying about the overwhelming VAST majority? With increasing racial tensions and racial profiling? With masked men grabbing ethnic-looking people off the streets and taking them who-knows-where without due process? Without even having time to consider where their teenage daughter was going - how she was going to get home - when they snatched the mum? With increasing the ICE budget 15 fold when it would be far more economically prudent to maybe just double the processing and get it right?

Trump's NPD means he LOVES drama! Adore him, or hate him, he loves both! All those people who are utterly furious with him are confirming that he is the most important person in the room - because all their attention is focused on him. (But mock him on late night TV? That he cannot tolerate! That threatens his whole narcissistic worldview - and is why so often demagogues who want to be the absolute authority in the land have comedians and intellectuals jailed or executed.)

As the Wiki on Democratic Backsliding says:

• Free and fair elections are degraded;[20]
• Liberal rights of freedom of speech, press[22] and association decline, impairing the ability of the political opposition to challenge the government, hold it to account, and propose alternatives to the current regime;[20][22]
• The rule of law (i.e., judicial and bureaucratic restraints on the government) is weakened,[20] such as when the independence of the judiciary is threatened, or when civil service tenure protections are weakened or eliminated.[23]
• An over-emphasis on national security as response to acts of terrorism or perceived antagonists.[23]
• Democratic backsliding - Wikipedia

This whole emphasis on 'othering' - on blaming ALL the ills of society on 'those people' who are 'not even human - I call them animals' - is straight out of a sociology 101 textbook.

THE BLAME GAME / SPLITTING / OTHERING: Finding a group to blame for all society’s ills. Immigrants took your jobs, radical socialist left assassinates everyone (when the statistics show the right does this 5 times more!) “They’re eating the dogs”, etc.

PROPOGANDA LORDS: Try to control information. Banning comedians, intellectuals from discussing certain things, attacks on universities, attacking the free press. Sound familiar?

https://knowledge.insead.edu/leadership-organisations/fighting-against-dictatorship

7thKeeper said:

Please point out where I made such a claim? The topic was healthcare costs and results.
And you pulled at least some of those numbers from someone's behind. Average tax rate in Sweden for example is ~23%. Please don't tell me you're yet another one who doesn't under how tax brackets work, that seems to be a very common occurrence amongst US conservatives.

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Where does the government get its funds from?

ThatRobGuy said:

Attempting to accelerate change by leveraging the old Comenius philosophy of "allow me to teach a child until they're 7, and I will show you the man" has not been well-received.

That's where I see a major distinction between the earlier forms of gay advocacy vs. the modern forms of LGBTQ activism.

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People don't accept concepts like gay marriage because of any activism. They accept it because they were told by some that it meant the end of western civilisation! That the sky was going to fall! That society would crumble! And then...it didn't.

People thought 'Hey, life just goes as it always did. So Dave in accounts got married to Pete and...nothing changed. Everything is just the same. We were lied to'.

FAITH-IN-HIM said:

It’s not about illegitimacy of the Hama’s power. If the Gaza is handed back to Hamas, they will continue to brutally oppress its own citizens, kill those who disagree with them, take their food and enrich themselves, buy rocket and offensive weapon with the aid money given for food.

Is that ok with you ?

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That seems a stupid plan, but you never know with Trump. If he thought it would help him to the Peace Prize he would do it in a New York minute. But that would be for afters. Right now the fighting has to stop and in order to do that you have to deal with the people who are actually doing the fighting. Trying to find a more sympathetic leader who might go on be elected in hypothetical elections some time after the fighting has stopped begins to sound like an excuse to keep fighting. What authority would he have to have to order HAMAS to stop fighting? Why should HAMAS obey him?