WHO IS BABYLON/HARLOT IN REVELATION?

[Josheb]

863

863 aphiemi {af-ee'-ay-mee}

from 575 and hiemi (to send, an intens. form of eimi, to go).....!

Only G863 was "consulted". Go back and read the post before replying with incorrect accusatory information.

The evidence proves otherwise. And since cogent discourse isn't possible with posters who contradict their own content there are two options: self-correct the clearly evidenced and therefore now undeniable error (you did in fact consult G575 and not "only G863" as was just stated) or we're done. I won't trade posts with someone upon whom I cannot rely to stick to his own content.

You did in fact consult 575 (or you posted it blindly without consulting it, which is even worse).

 

[Kaon]

In Revelation 17:5, the Harlot appears as “Babylon the Great.”

She is repeatedly called “The Great City.”

We then encounter the phrase “the great city” in

Revelation 11:8 “And their dead bodies will lie in the street of THE GREAT CITY which is mystically called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.”

Two things to consider.

1. There is only one city throughout the Bible which is referred to as Sodom and Egypt and guess which city IT IS NOT? IT IS NOT ROME.

But the Bible does refer metaphorically to on multiple occasions Jerusalem as Sodom and Egypt.

2. Notice the last 6 words of Revelation 11:8 “WHERE ALSO THEIR LORD WAS CRUCIFIED.”

Jesus was NOT crucified in Rome.

Jesus WAS crucified in Jerusalem.

Therefore, The Harlot, and Babylon can be none other than Jerusalem NOT Rome.

Revelation 18:24 says “In her (Babylon) was found the blood of prophets and saints.”

This same language appears in Revelation 16:6, 17:6, and 18:21 and 18:24. John is making the same statements as Jesus made in Luke 11:50-51.

Luke 11:50-51: “In order that the blood of all the prophets, she’d since the foundation of the world may be charged against this generation, from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the house of God, yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation.”

Rome never killed an Old Testament prophet as per Revelation 18:24, but Jerusalem certainly did.

The New Testament shows over and over the Jewish persecution of the prophets (Matt. 23:29-37; Luke 6:23-26; Luke 11:47-50; Luke 13:34; Romans 11:3; 1Thessalonians 2:15; and Hebrews 11:32-38.)

The Harlot being drunk on the blood of the saints and prophets ONLY fits Jerusalem.

Last thing: Even the Harlot’s attire provides evidence of Jerusalem.

Revelation 17:4 The woman was clothed in "PURPLE AND SCARLET...”

Revelation 18:6 “Woe, woe, the great city clothed in fine linen and PURPLE and SCARLET...”

Notice the clothing of the Harlot is the exact clothing required of the priests who served in the Temple in Jerusalem (Exodus 28:4-5 and also verses 8-9.)

This attire of the harlot also matches the decor of the Temple (Exodus 26:1).

Lastly notice the harlot has headgear (Revelation 17:5)

And so did the High Priest who served in the Old Testament Temple (Exodus 28:36 -38).

The Harlot and Babylon again only fits Jerusalem and NOT ROME!


Most that identify Rome as Babylon do so because of the phrase “the city on 7 hills” and Rome certainly was known as the city on 7 hills, but what most don’t know or either forget is that Jerusalem was known first as the city on 7 hills.
1. The Mount of Olives
2. Mount Scopus
3. Mount of Corruption
4. Original Mount Zion/called Temple Mount
5. The New Mount Zion/called Western Hill
6. Mount Ophel
7. Antonia Fortress Hill

The RCC killed plenty of saints - through imperialism, crusades and inquisition alone.

But Babylon is America.

 

[Douggg]

But Babylon is America.

Revelation 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Mystery, Babylon the Great can't be America. Mystery, Babylon the Great is the kingdom of Satan and his angels ruling over the earth.

 

[DavidPT]

Mystery, Babylon the Great is the kingdom of Satan and his angels ruling over the earth.

A kingdom that can be seen or not seen? keeping in mind that this kingdom is set on fire and destroyed eventually.

 

[Josheb]

@ Josheb You are extrapolating too much from Noah, the ark, and the world all life destroyed by the flood, who were not in the ark. God gave the rainbow that He would not destroy all life on earth again.

Fail.

I didn't extrapolate anything. I didn't extend anything, infer anything, assume anything, nor interpret anything. No such extrapolation was evidenced. I took scripture as written, plainly read. That is not what I have received in return.

I'll provide an example from the post to which I know reply: God did not promise never to destroy all life on earth again. First, He did NOT give "the rainbow that He would not destroy all life on earth again" and the implication He did so is a gross misrepresentation of scripture. He killed all life but that which was on the ark (and perhaps the fish in the sea). That is a very important distinction and you're on record posting incorrectly. Second, God did not say "He gave the rainbow that He would not destroy all life on earth again." He said He gave the rainbow as a sign of His promise never to destroy the earth by water again. If you're like some here then you'll gonna get miffed that I pointed it out so bluntly and attack me personally for my doing so and then blame me when the mods address the tou violation when all I did was point out a clear, undeniable, irrefutable, evidenced error.

Genesis 9:8-17
"Then God spoke to Noah and to his sons with him, saying, "Now behold, I Myself do establish My covenant with you, and with your descendants after you; and with every living creature that is with you, the birds, the cattle, and every beast of the earth with you; of all that comes out of the ark, even every beast of the earth. I establish My covenant with you; and all flesh shall never again be cut off by the water of the flood, neither shall there again be a flood to destroy the earth.' God said, "This is the sign of the covenant which I am making between Me and you and every living creature that is with you, for all successive generations; I set My bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a sign of a covenant between Me and the earth. It shall come about, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow will be seen in the cloud, and I will remember My covenant, which is between Me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and never again shall the water become a flood to destroy all flesh. When the bow is in the cloud, then I will look upon it, to remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is on the earth.' And God said to Noah, 'This is the sign of the covenant which I have established between Me and all flesh that is on the earth.'"​

And, of course, the irony here is that I've just been falsely and baselessly accused of extrapolation... and received erroneous extrapolation! That is ordinarily called hypocrisy. Was it an "honest mistake," done in a moment of haste? Was it deliberate in hopes the falseness wouldn't be noticed? Was it deliberate with a willful intent to deceive? Was it incompetence? I don't know and I don't care. I do not know anyone's motives and motive is irrelevant to the discussion. I consider all more significant than myself, thinking the best or all, facing error with the confidence of our shared identity in Christ, kindly, patiently, hopefully trusting knowing the same Spirit that is at work in me is in work in all of you. Or not. Because the Holy Spirit does not drive errors like claiming God gave the rainbow as a promise He would never again destroy all life. The Holy Spirit doesn't deconstruct prefix from root and ignore how the sum is greater than the parts combined or ignore context. The flesh does that. These seem alien concepts to many here.



Which now places you in the position of either denying what is evidenced (and therefore not baseless), or acknowledging the error and thereby demonstrating the ability to receive correction, submit to the facts and authority of scripture and not personality, and thereby evidence some degree of integrity that pays forth in cogent discourse.

It does none of us any good to have all our doctrines correct if we don't actually practice scripture's precepts when we argue those doctrines.

I didn't extrapolate, but I did receive extrapolation. Log, not speck, Douggg.


Jesus told his audience the tribulation experience would be comparable to the days of Noah. I didn't randomly, wantonly, or eisegetically copy and paste Genesis 5-9 into Matthew 24 and Luke 17; Jesus connected those three passages. I did exactly what any exegete would and should do: I went and read the Genesis account so as to understand Jesus' reference. It's his reference, not mine. I read both texts exactly as written. I highlighted the relevant portions. I appealed to the original language in transliteration. I noted the various contexts of speaker, audience affiliation, temporal qualifiers, and judgment. No one else here did any of that. The fact no one else here did any of that is objectively demonstrable; it is not a matter of debate. The neglect should concern all of us. So, when the other poster broaches Strong's I say, "Great!" but I cannot say "Well done!" because Strong's was abused just as much as scripture was. The error is clear, undeniable, and evidenced. Ignoring how a prefix changes a root and ignoring the context of judgment aren't allowable practices and they are not the basis of sound thought, doctrine or practice.

The text of scripture states what it states; and what it states in Genesis without any extrapolation is Noah and the seven were left on the earth and not taken off the planet. What the text states in Matthew without any extrapolation is that the ones left in the English were sent away in the Greek from judgment.


No extrapolation required.


And you can get miffed at me from my bluntness if you like but that won't change the facts in evidence.

 

[Kaon]

Revelation 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Mystery, Babylon the Great can't be America. Mystery, Babylon the Great is the kingdom of Satan and his angels ruling over the earth.

Ok.

 

[Douggg]

Second, God did not say "He gave the rainbow that He would not destroy all life on earth again." He said He gave the rainbow as a sign of His promise never to destroy the earth by water again.

But you are are using Noah day's in your argument that all the unsaved will be taken, destroyed, leaving only the righteous here on earth - as a repeat of the flood principle.

I was pointing out in regards to that principle that God promised not to destroy all life on earth again, like he did in Noah's day. You have missed the point of "as in the days of Noah" in Matthew 24:37-39, and are extrapolating too much from the verse. The point being made is that people would not believe what is going to happen, although it has been preached widely, during this generation.

You should be equating Noah and his family being spared from drowning in the flood, with being spared from having to go through the great tribulation that will test all upon the earth. Luke 21:34-36, escaping those things and to stand before the Son of Man..

That flesh referring to living creatures upon the earth will not be destroyed again like in the flood is in Matthew 24:22, because God is going to put a limit on the great tribulation to keep it short of that happening..

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

And in Ezekiel 39:21, Jesus Himself speaking in the passage...

Matthew 21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

To rule over the nations with a rod of iron.

 

[Douggg]

A kingdom that can be seen or not seen? keeping in mind that this kingdom is set on fire and destroyed eventually.

Are you referring to Revelation 18:8-10? I have tried to identify an actual literal city that meets all of the criteria for the great city in Revelation 18, and could not, over many, many years; and have concluded that it is not a literal city, but Babylon the Great being likened to a great city that meets its demise.

8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

In Revelation 16, as the final bowl of wrath, Babylon the Great affects all of the nations of the world.

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

In my view, great Babylon is Satan and his angels kingdom ruling over the earth, which by immoral means, there have been riches made and cities built. I think that the earthquake will break up the earth into three parts.

Satan and his angels's mystical unseen kingdom has to be destroyed before the Kingdom of God , also not seen, becomes the ruling Kingdom over the nations.

 

[claninja]

The Harlot, harlot, is supposed to be arrayed in scarlet and purple. Josheb is claiming Levite priesthood, but the images don't back up his claim. You are claiming the harlot, harlot, is all false region. But you have to make the beast worship as an exception.

Forget google images. Just use scripture, which states the garments of the sanctuary ministers were made with blue, purple, and scarlet yarn.

Exodus 39:1 From the blue, purple, and scarlet yarn they made specially woven garments for ministry in the sanctuary, as well as the holy garments for Aaron, just as the LORD had commanded Moses.

 

[Douggg]

Forget google images. Just use scripture, which states the garments of the sanctuary ministers were made with blue, purple, and scarlet yarn.

Exodus 39:1 From the blue, purple, and scarlet yarn they made specially woven garments for ministry in the sanctuary, as well as the holy garments for Aaron, just as the LORD had commanded Moses.

It is in the trim. Besides that, God is the one who designed the garments and breastplate, so that is hardly the clothing of a false religion.

 

[Josheb]

But you are are using Noah day's in your argument that all the unsaved will be taken, destroyed, leaving only the righteous here on earth - as a repeat of the flood principle.

I never said any such thing and will thank you not to put words into my posts I did not write. If you want me to explain my position in greater detail then ask; please do not assume you know my mind. It's rude. All the more so that such errors would then be used to argue a straw man.

I was pointing out in regards to that principle that God promised not to destroy all life on earth again, like he did in Noah's day.

Yes, and in so doing you were 1) abusing God's word, 2) ignoring the actual content of scripture, 3) hypocritically asserting an extrapolation, and 4) arguing a straw man, incorrectly imagining I was arguing all unrighteous life would be extinguished before the day of even though I have posted a post on the distinction between the last days plural and the last day singular by which everyone was informed not all unrighteous life would be extinguished in the last days.

You have missed the point of "as in the days of Noah" in Matthew 24:37-39, and are extrapolating too much from the verse.

You keep saying that but you do so without a single pixel of evidence proving the false accusation true and now it is understood the accusation is based on a straw man.

The point being made is that people would not believe what is going to happen, although it has been preached widely, during this generation.

Yep; and nothing I posted should have been construed to say otherwise. That's on you Douggg.

You should be equating Noah and his family being spared from drowning in the flood, with being spared from having to go through the great tribulation that will test all upon the earth. Luke 21:34-36, escaping those things and to stand before the Son of Man...

No, that would be a false representation of God's word. It is a commonly held myth among futurists, especially among Dispies, that God always removes His people from tribulation but that is simply not true. The Bible is filled with episodes in which God causes His people to go through trial, tribulation, and extreme suffering for His purposes. Noah did not escape the flood; he escaped the destruction of the flood. He endured many trials and tribulation and suffered and in the end sin and the unrighteous remained; it wasn't very long before his own son sexually abused him while he lay in a drunken stupor (Gen. 9:20-25).

And, once more, it is you who is extrapolating. You've "equated." Those are your very own words, Douggg.

Be as critical of your own sources as you are of my posts and you'll see for yourself how flawed are those sources.

That flesh referring to living creatures upon the earth will not be destroyed again like in the flood is in Matthew 24:22, because God is going to put a limit on the great tribulation to keep it short of that happening...

More hypocritical extrapolation.

And.... you've nce again completly ignored the actual content of what I posted and once again completely avoided acknowledging your own errors imaging you can change what you previously posted as if the prior mistakes didn't happen and should go unnoticed and unattended. You posted what you posted and what you posted was undeniably wrong.

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

And in Ezekiel 39:21, Jesus Himself speaking in the passage...

Matthew 21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

Copy and paste eisegesis.

To rule over the nations with a rod of iron.

Jesus the tyrant.


And I can see the use of hyperbole by God escapes understanding.

Ezekiel 5:9
"Because of all your abominations, I will do to you what I have never done before and will never do again."[/i]​

Daniel 12:21
"At that time Michael, the great prince who stands watch over your people, will rise up. There will be a time of distress such as never has occurred from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people--everyone whose name is found written in the book--will be delivered."​

Joel 2:2
"Blow the ram’s horn in Zion; sound the alarm on My holy mountain! Let all who dwell in the land tremble, for the Day of the LORD is coming; indeed, it is near — a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness. Like the dawn overspreading the mountains a great and strong people appears, such as never was of old, nor will ever be in ages to come."​

Revelation 16:18
"And there were flashes of lightning, and rumblings, and peals of thunder, and a great earthquake the likes of which had not occurred since men were upon the earth--so mighty was the great quake."​

Zephaniah 1:18
"Neither their silver nor their gold will be able to deliver them on the day of the LORD'S wrath; And all the earth will be devoured In the fire of His jealousy, for He will make a complete end, indeed a terrifying one, of all the inhabitants of the earth."​

This is just a sample.

Simple logic tells us that if anyone survives the tribulation and is able to sit under an earthly rule of Christ then it is not worse than the destruction of the flood or that which Sodom, the 40 years of wilderness wondering, the city of Ai, the Negev and Agag, experienced in which all the unrighteous were destroyed. There was no one unrighteous left to rule over in those events. Logic tells us surviving the tirbulation tosit under the earthly rule of the Prine of Peace is going to be much better than that which the Hebrews suffered in 2 Chronicles 36:15-21.

Properly exegete scripture, Dougg, and 1) you won't make the mistake just made, 2) you'll find scripture saying something much different, and 3) I won't have to post corrections (I'll be able to commend, Agree, Like, and support the posts).

Stop extrapolating and equating. Log, not speck.

 

[Douggg]

I never said any such thing and will thank you not to put words into my posts I did not write. If you want me to explain my position in greater detail then ask; please do not assume you know my mind. It's rude. All the more so that such errors would then be used to argue a straw man.

Your posts are confusing. Why don't you just clarify your position, if you think that I have on a particular point misrepresented your position?

What I would also suggest is that you state some of your basic views under your screen-name like I did below mine. For example, if you are partial preterist, or post trib, let everyone know.

The Bible is filled with episodes in which God causes His people to go through trial, tribulation, and extreme suffering for His purposes. Noah did not escape the flood; he escaped the destruction of the flood.

And how many raptures/resurrections have there been?

 

[claninja]

It is in the trim.

Just the trim? I could find no scriptures to state it was just the trim that was purple and scarlet to support your statement.

The garments were made with blue, purple, and scarlet yarn

Exodus 28:4-5 hese are the garments that they shall make: a breastpiece, an ephod, a robe, a woven tunic, a turban, and a sash. They are to make these holy garments for your brother Aaron and his sons, so that they may serve Me as priests. They shall use gold, along with blue, purple, and scarlet yarn, and fine linen.

Exodus 39:1 From the blue, purple, and scarlet yarn they made specially woven garments for ministry in the sanctuary, as well as the holy garments for Aaron, just as the LORD had commanded Moses.

The ephod was made with blue, purple and scarlet yarn
Exodus 39:2 He made the ephod of finely spun linen embroidered with gold, and with blue, purple, and scarlet yarn.

The waistband of the ephod was made of blue, purple, and scarlet yarn
Exodus 39:5 And the skillfully woven waistband of the ephod was of one piece with the ephod, of the same workmanship—with gold, with blue, purple, and scarlet yarn, and with finely spun linen, just as the LORD had commanded Moses

The sash was made with blue purple and scarlet yarn
Exodus 39:29 and the sash of finely spun linen, embroidered with blue, purple, and scarlet yarn, just as the LORD had commanded Moses.

God is the one who designed the garments and breastplate, so that is hardly the clothing of a false religion.

You argument is based on the presupposition of false religion, when scripture no where states this. Additionally, you believe the sons of the devil are those of true religion?
John 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

So instead of false presuppositions, Let's use scripture to interpret scripture instead of speculation.

Revelation states the great city is clothed with purple and scarlet.
Revelation 18:16 Alas, alas, for the great city that was clothed in fine linen,in purple and scarlet,
adorned with gold,

We can see from scripture that the old covenant ministers were also clothed in purple and scarlet
Exodus 28:4-5 These are the garments that they shall make: a breastpiece, an ephod, a robe, a woven tunic, a turban, and a sash. They are to make these holy garments for your brother Aaron and his sons, so that they may serve Me as priests. They shall use gold, along with blue, purple, and scarlet yarn, and fine linen.

Exodus 39:1 From the blue, purple, and scarlet yarn they made specially woven garments for ministry in the sanctuary, as well as the holy garments for Aaron, just as the LORD had commanded Moses.

Exodus 39:2 He made the ephod of finely spun linen embroidered with gold, and with blue, purple, and scarlet yarn.

Exodus 39:5 And the skillfully woven waistband of the ephod was of one piece with the ephod, of the same workmanship—with gold, with blue, purple, and scarlet yarn, and with finely spun linen, just as the LORD had commanded Moses

Exodus 39:29 and the sash of finely spun linen, embroidered with blue, purple, and scarlet yarn, just as the LORD had commanded Moses.

Revelation states the great city is responsible for all the righteous blood shed.
Revelation 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all who have been slain on earth.”

Jesus states the peoples of 1st century Jerusalem were charged with all the rigteous blood shed.
Matthew 23:35-36 so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah,f whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

Luke 11:50-51 so that the blood of all the prophets, shed from the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation, from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, it will be required of this generation

If the great city is not in fact Jerusalem, just provide scripture where other peoples, nations, tribes wore purple and scarlet and were charged with all the righteous blood shed. Should be simple if your belief is the correct one. If you can't provide scripture we will know your belief is just speculation biased on your eschatologically

 

[Douggg]

Just the trim? I could find no scriptures to state it was just the trim that was purple and scarlet to support your statement.

The garments were made with blue, purple, and scarlet yarn

Exodus 28:4-5 hese are the garments that they shall make: a breastpiece, an ephod, a robe, a woven tunic, a turban, and a sash. They are to make these holy garments for your brother Aaron and his sons, so that they may serve Me as priests. They shall use gold, along with blue, purple, and scarlet yarn, and fine linen.

Exodus 39:1 From the blue, purple, and scarlet yarn they made specially woven garments for ministry in the sanctuary, as well as the holy garments for Aaron, just as the LORD had commanded Moses.

The ephod was made with blue, purple and scarlet yarn
Exodus 39:2 He made the ephod of finely spun linen embroidered with gold, and with blue, purple, and scarlet yarn.

The waistband of the ephod was made of blue, purple, and scarlet yarn
Exodus 39:5 And the skillfully woven waistband of the ephod was of one piece with the ephod, of the same workmanship—with gold, with blue, purple, and scarlet yarn, and with finely spun linen, just as the LORD had commanded Moses

The sash was made with blue purple and scarlet yarn
Exodus 39:29 and the sash of finely spun linen, embroidered with blue, purple, and scarlet yarn, just as the LORD had commanded Moses.



You argument is based on the presupposition of false religion, when scripture no where states this. Additionally, you believe the sons of the devil are those of true religion?
John 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

So instead of false presuppositions, Let's use scripture to interpret scripture instead of speculation.

Revelation states the great city is clothed with purple and scarlet.
Revelation 18:16 Alas, alas, for the great city that was clothed in fine linen,in purple and scarlet,
adorned with gold,

We can see from scripture that the old covenant ministers were also clothed in purple and scarlet
Exodus 28:4-5 These are the garments that they shall make: a breastpiece, an ephod, a robe, a woven tunic, a turban, and a sash. They are to make these holy garments for your brother Aaron and his sons, so that they may serve Me as priests. They shall use gold, along with blue, purple, and scarlet yarn, and fine linen.

Exodus 39:1 From the blue, purple, and scarlet yarn they made specially woven garments for ministry in the sanctuary, as well as the holy garments for Aaron, just as the LORD had commanded Moses.

Exodus 39:2 He made the ephod of finely spun linen embroidered with gold, and with blue, purple, and scarlet yarn.

Exodus 39:5 And the skillfully woven waistband of the ephod was of one piece with the ephod, of the same workmanship—with gold, with blue, purple, and scarlet yarn, and with finely spun linen, just as the LORD had commanded Moses

Exodus 39:29 and the sash of finely spun linen, embroidered with blue, purple, and scarlet yarn, just as the LORD had commanded Moses.

Revelation states the great city is responsible for all the righteous blood shed.
Revelation 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all who have been slain on earth.”

Jesus states the peoples of 1st century Jerusalem were charged with all the rigteous blood shed.
Matthew 23:35-36 so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah,f whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

Luke 11:50-51 so that the blood of all the prophets, shed from the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation, from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, it will be required of this generation

If the great city is not in fact Jerusalem, just provide scripture where other peoples, nations, tribes wore purple and scarlet and were charged with all the righteous blood shed. Should be simple if your belief is the correct one. If you can't provide scripture we will know your belief is just speculation biased on your eschatologically

Look up the word "embroidered" and do an image search.

You argument is based on the presupposition of false religion, when scripture no where states this. Additionally, you believe the sons of the devil are those of true religion?

No, that was not my argument. RT was saying that the harlot, the harlot was all false religion. My position is the harlot, harlot, is the Vatican.

God designed the garments of the Israel priests.

 

[Josheb]

Your posts are confusing. Why don't you just clarify your position, if you think that I have on a particular point misrepresented your position?

My posts have not been shown to be confusing. Why don't you take more time and care to understand them?


That clear enough for you?

What I would also suggest is that you state some of your basic views under your screen-name like I did below mine. For example, if you are partial preterist, or post trib, let everyone know.

You do understand this current discussion between you and I began because I specifically and explicitly asked you to clarify the vagaries of "anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist," right? You do understand that having clarified what you believe hasn't actually helped this discussion, right?

Do you understand your views are very dispensational and it's not clear how or why you think you're non-dispensationalist?

It is clear from my posts I believe the harlot in Revelation 17 is Jerusalem and the reason I do so is because...

1) the harlot was going to arise in a time that was near to John's writing the book of Revelation,
2) the harlot wears purple and scarlet, which is the colors of the Levitical priesthood,
3) it was the Judaic priesthood that was responsible for the persecution of the prophets and Christians,
4) these are how the first century readers would have understood the text.

Don't know how much clearer I could be there, Douggg.

The partial-preterist position is well-established in Christian writing so there's no reason for anyone not to have some familiarity with it other than the fact many pastors, preachers, and teachers have little knowledge of it so they don't teach it. There are literally scores of books written from the partial-preterist understanding of scripture.

And how many raptures/resurrections have there been?

Hmmm... that questions appears to imply a rapture and a resurrection ar synonymous or identical in nature. They are not. I find it curious you would ask the question with defining or clarifying the terms since you are here now posts are confusing and warrant clarification. Do you ever practice what you preach, Douggg? Do you examine your own posts to see if you have practiced what you are asking of others? This must be the thrid or fourth time I've noted this to you.

The short answer is: there have been no raptures, and there have been as many resurrections as there have been conversions from death to life in Christ but... you need to define your terms so that we can dicuss the matter with a mutually shared understanding of the terms.

The word in the Bible for "resurrection" is simply the word "raised." Context led the English translators to use "resurrection" in certain places instead of "raised," so as to clarify the meaning of the text. Furthermore, there is a difference between being resuscitated and being resurrected. Lazarus and Jairus' daughter were raised from the dead, but they were still mortal; they were not made immortal (otherwise e'd still have Lazarus and the daughter walking around in modern times to testify to thoe accounts). They were resuscitated, not resurrected. They lived out the rest of their life, died, and if they had a salvific relationship with God through His resurrected Son, Jesus the anointed one, then they were subsequently resurrected. To muddy waters even further, when a person is converted from death to life s/he is "raised" with Christ. God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ... and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus (Eph. 2:5-6). Having been buried with Christ in baptism, we were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Jesus from the dead (Col. 2:12). That is not the same thing as the raising we will experience on the last day when the following occur.,

2 Corinthians 4:13-14
"But having the same spirit of faith, according to what is written, 'I believed, therefore I spoke,' we also believe, therefore we also speak, knowing that He who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and will present us with you."​

1 Corinthians 15:35-49
"But someone will say, 'How are the dead raised? And with what kind of body do they come?' You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies; and that which you sow, you do not sow the body which is to be, but a bare grain, perhaps of wheat or of something else. But God gives it a body just as He wished, and to each of the seeds a body of its own. All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish. There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. So also it is written, 'The first man, Adam, became a living soul.' The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual. The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven. As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly. Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly."​

Traditionally, the Church has not seen the "rapture" and the final resurrection as distinct or separate events. That division began with John Darby and Dispensational Premillennialism in the mid-1800s.

So if you're not dispensationalist then do please define what you mean by "rapture" and "resurrection" and why the two were put together "rapture/resurrection" since they are not the same thing.

Log, not speck.

 

[DavidPT]

It is clear from my posts I believe the harlot in Revelation 17 is Jerusalem and the reason I do so is because...

1) the harlot was going to arise in a time that was near to John's writing the book of Revelation,
2) the harlot wears purple and scarlet, which is the colors of the Levitical priesthood,
3) it was the Judaic priesthood that was responsible for the persecution of the prophets and Christians,
4) these are how the first century readers would have understood the text.

Below would have to be how the texts need to be understood if Jerusalem is meant. And we haven't even considered chapter 18 yet.

Revelation 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of JERUSALEM that sitteth upon many waters:
2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of JERUSALEM's fornication.
3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw JERUSALEM sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 And JERUSALEM was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon JERUSALEM's forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
6 And I saw the JERUSALEM drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw JERUSALEM, I wondered with great admiration.
7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of JERUSALEM, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which JERUSALEM sitteth.
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where JERUSALEM sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate JERUSALEM, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
18 And JERUSALEM which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.



So, explain the meaning of verse 15 for starters---The waters which thou sawest, where JERUSALEM sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

 

[ebedmelech]

Mystery Babylon Mother of Harlot's is apostate Jerusalem/Israel. Throughout the prophets God repeatedly likened Israel/Jerusalem to a harlot. So many want to continue to claim Israel today as "God's chosen people" when that ended with the New Covenant. Under the NT ALL CHRISTIANS, regardless of race or ethnicity are the chosen of God, and really were chosen before the foundation of the world as Ephesians 1:3-4.

God to Moses in Deuteronomy 31:16-18
16 The Lord said to Moses, “Behold, you are about to lie down with your fathers; and this people will arise and play the harlot with the strange gods of the land, into the midst of which they are going, and will forsake Me and break My covenant which I have made with them.
17 Then My anger will be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them and hide My face from them, and they will be consumed, and many evils and troubles will come upon them; so that they will say in that day, ‘Is it not because our God is not among us that these evils have come upon us?’
18 But I will surely hide My face in that day because of all the evil which they will do, for they will turn to other gods.

Israel/Jerusalem certainly played the harlot and broke the covenant they made with God at Exodus 24:1-8.

Also read these passages:

*Jeremiah 3

*Ezekiel 16

*Hosea 1

It's really kind of like a blindness to miss who "Mystery Babylon Mother of Harlots" is in Revelation.

Let me add also, there is nothing anti-semitic in saying the truth about Israel/Jerusalem no longer being God's chosen people. It's what scripture declares.

 

[Josheb]

So, explain the meaning of verse 15 for starters---The waters which thou sawest, where JERUSALEM sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

Jerusalem was a hub of international commerce and it contained people from every nation (known at the time). It was an enormously important trade hub between east and west, north and south. We also know from the histories of that Jerusalem era that when the Romans laid siege it not only fielded an Army whose soldiers came from throughout the Empire (many nations) but they conscripted mercenary armies from north, south, east and west. We read of the multi-national nature of Jerusalem throughout the scriptures. One of the most explicit is Acts 2:5.

Acts 2:1-11
"When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance. Now there were Jews living in Jerusalem, devout men from every nation under heaven. And when this sound occurred, the crowd came together, and were bewildered because each one of them was hearing them speak in his own language. They were amazed and astonished, saying, "Why, are not all these who are speaking Galileans? "And how is it that we each hear them in our own language to which we were born? 'Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the districts of Libya around Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabs—we hear them in our own tongues speaking of the mighty deeds of God.'"​

Scripture as written, plainly read; scripture rendering scripture.


So, David, first century Jerusalem fits the bill as the harlot very well. There is no warrant to look elsewhere but scripture for the identity of the harlot.

Isaiah 1:18-26
"'Come now, and let us reason together,' Says the LORD, 'Though your sins are as scarlet, they will be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they will be like wool. If you consent and obey, You will eat the best of the land; But if you refuse and rebel, You will be devoured by the sword. Truly, the mouth of the LORD has spoken. How the faithful city has become a harlot, She who was full of justice! Righteousness once lodged in her, but now murderers. Your silver has become dross, your drink diluted with water. Your rulers are rebels And companions of thieves; everyone loves a bribe and chases after rewards. They do not defend the orphan, nor does the widow's plea come before them. Therefore the Lord GOD of hosts, The Mighty One of Israel, declares, 'Ah, I will be relieved of My adversaries and avenge Myself on My foes. I will also turn My hand against you, and will smelt away your dross as with lye and will remove all your alloy. Then I will restore your judges as at the first, and your counselors as at the beginning; after that you will be called the city of righteousness, a faithful city."​

God Himself called the once faithful city in Zion a "harlot." You'll find the same thing said of the whole nation Israel in Jeremiah 2:20 and throughout Jeremiah 3 and Ezekiel 16. The book of Hosea is about the harlotry of Israel!

Micah 1:1-7
"The word of the LORD which came to Micah of Moresheth in the days of Jotham, Ahaz and Hezekiah, kings of Judah, which he saw concerning Samaria and Jerusalem. Hear, O peoples, all of you; Listen, O earth and all it contains, And let the Lord GOD be a witness against you, The Lord from His holy temple. For behold, the LORD is coming forth from His place. He will come down and tread on the high places of the earth. The mountains will melt under Him And the valleys will be split, Like wax before the fire, Like water poured down a steep place. All this is for the rebellion of Jacob And for the sins of the house of Israel. What is the rebellion of Jacob? Is it not Samaria? What is the high place of Judah? Is it not Jerusalem? For I will make Samaria a heap of ruins in the open country, Planting places for a vineyard. I will pour her stones down into the valley And will lay bare her foundations. All of her idols will be smashed, All of her earnings will be burned with fire And all of her images I will make desolate, For she collected them from a harlot's earnings, And to the earnings of a harlot they will return."​

Jerusalem and the Levitical priesthood is the harlot.

 

[iamlamad]

Jerusalem was a hub of international commerce and it contained people from every nation (known at the time). It was an enormously important trade hub between east and west, north and south. We also know from the histories of that Jerusalem era that when the Romans laid siege it not only fielded an Army whose soldiers came from throughout the Empire (many nations) but they conscripted mercenary armies from north, south, east and west. We read of the multi-national nature of Jerusalem throughout the scriptures. One of the most explicit is Acts 2:5.

Acts 2:1-11
"When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance. Now there were Jews living in Jerusalem, devout men from every nation under heaven. And when this sound occurred, the crowd came together, and were bewildered because each one of them was hearing them speak in his own language. They were amazed and astonished, saying, "Why, are not all these who are speaking Galileans? "And how is it that we each hear them in our own language to which we were born? 'Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the districts of Libya around Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabs—we hear them in our own tongues speaking of the mighty deeds of God.'"​

Scripture as written, plainly read; scripture rendering scripture.


So, David, first century Jerusalem fits the bill as the harlot very well. There is no warrant to look elsewhere but scripture for the identity of the harlot.

Isaiah 1:18-26
"'Come now, and let us reason together,' Says the LORD, 'Though your sins are as scarlet, they will be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they will be like wool. If you consent and obey, You will eat the best of the land; But if you refuse and rebel, You will be devoured by the sword. Truly, the mouth of the LORD has spoken. How the faithful city has become a harlot, She who was full of justice! Righteousness once lodged in her, but now murderers. Your silver has become dross, your drink diluted with water. Your rulers are rebels And companions of thieves; everyone loves a bribe and chases after rewards. They do not defend the orphan, nor does the widow's plea come before them. Therefore the Lord GOD of hosts, The Mighty One of Israel, declares, 'Ah, I will be relieved of My adversaries and avenge Myself on My foes. I will also turn My hand against you, and will smelt away your dross as with lye and will remove all your alloy. Then I will restore your judges as at the first, and your counselors as at the beginning; after that you will be called the city of righteousness, a faithful city."​

God Himself called the once faithful city in Zion a "harlot." You'll find the same thing said of the whole nation Israel in Jeremiah 2:20 and throughout Jeremiah 3 and Ezekiel 16. The book of Hosea is about the harlotry of Israel!

Micah 1:1-7
"The word of the LORD which came to Micah of Moresheth in the days of Jotham, Ahaz and Hezekiah, kings of Judah, which he saw concerning Samaria and Jerusalem. Hear, O peoples, all of you; Listen, O earth and all it contains, And let the Lord GOD be a witness against you, The Lord from His holy temple. For behold, the LORD is coming forth from His place. He will come down and tread on the high places of the earth. The mountains will melt under Him And the valleys will be split, Like wax before the fire, Like water poured down a steep place. All this is for the rebellion of Jacob And for the sins of the house of Israel. What is the rebellion of Jacob? Is it not Samaria? What is the high place of Judah? Is it not Jerusalem? For I will make Samaria a heap of ruins in the open country, Planting places for a vineyard. I will pour her stones down into the valley And will lay bare her foundations. All of her idols will be smashed, All of her earnings will be burned with fire And all of her images I will make desolate, For she collected them from a harlot's earnings, And to the earnings of a harlot they will return."​

Jerusalem and the Levitical priesthood is the harlot.

Agreed, but She is called MYSTERY BABYLON for that time period that the Beast and false Prophet are living there and deceiving the ENTIRE WORLD from that city. the MYSTERY city that deceives the entire world will be destroyed and never seen again, but the physical city will be rebuilt and be Jesus headquarters city for the Millennium.

 

[Josheb]

Agreed, but She is called MYSTERY BABYLON for that time period that the Beast and false Prophet are living there and deceiving the ENTIRE WORLD from that city. the MYSTERY city that deceives the entire world will be destroyed and never seen again, but the physical city will be rebuilt and be Jesus headquarters city for the Millennium.

I encourage you to study scripture's use of 1) terms like "the whole world," "all the nations," and "all the earth," and 2) hyperbole in that regard.

Again, proper exegesis helps us. Understanding the text as the original readers and not 21st century readers make a huge difference. Sometimes the phrase "the nations" is a reference to Israel and its twelve tribes. Sometimes not. Here are few examples of how scriptures speaks of all the nations when it does not mean the entire globe of the planet earth.

Colossians 1:21-23
"And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach — if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister."​

Had the gospel been proclaimed to the Inuit and other Native American tribes by the time Colossians was written? How about Japan or New Zealand? How then can Paul claim the gospel has been preached in all creation?

Or consider what is said about the New Jerusalem in Rev. 22,

Revelation 22:1-2
"Then he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb, in the middle of its street. On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations."​

What nations? If this is all occurring in heaven as some eschatologies hold then there are no nations to speak of. In heaven there's no land cut up into geo-political nations states; there's one kingdom with God and Christ as Rulers. Those eschatologies that have Jesus ruling over everything with a rod of iron (one poster recently asserted such a position) then there are no longer plural nations; there is only the one rule of Christ. So whether on earth or in heaven there aren't many nations plural; there is only the kingdom of Christ and protests like, "Well the man-made geo-political nation-states remain but Jesus commands them all," is a cop-out.

Here are examples of the hyperbole I mentioned earlier,

1 Timothy 3:14-16
"I am writing these things to you, hoping to come to you before long; but in case I am delayed, I write so that you will know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth. By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh, was vindicated in the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory."​

Was Jesus proclaimed among the nations - believed on in the world - before being taken up in glory by the time Paul had written his epistle to Timothy sometime in the early 60s a.d.?

Galatians 3:1-9
"O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”? Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, 'In you shall all the nations be blessed.' So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith."​

So here Paul is quoting from the covenant statements made by God to Abraham beginning all the way back in Genesis, 12, 15, 18, and 22, as well as Isaiah 51. In other words, Paul is saying those prophetic statements were coming true in his day and the Galatian converts are evidence of that fact. But why did he have to say, "all the nations," when clearly there was much more of the planet yet to see/hear the gospel.

Romans 16:25-27
"Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past, but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith; to the only wise God, through Jesus Christ, be the glory forever. Amen."​

Had the mystery been made known to all the nations? by 58 a.d.? Had the revelation of the mystery literally been made known to literally all the nations by then? No? If not then why does anyone impose such non-scriptural standards on scripture pertaining to the harlot? Does anyone bother to think about the logical conclusions to such positions? Logically what the "all nations" would mean in a post-21st century world is one single city is deterministic over every single nation on the planet. Bejing, or New York, or Kinshasa, or Delhi or Kalamazoo is going to deceive the entire rest of the world?

Even in the current state of globalism such a thing is not possible. Futurists are going to have to wait another century or three for one city to be able to deceive all others as Revelation 17-18 describes. In which case they'll have to stop telling everyone the world is going to hell in a hand basket any day now and the rapture is coming next week. The world is going to hell in a handbasket when globalism sufficiently empowers one city to deceive every nation and the rapture is next century.

God gave us a brain and He expects us to use it to think rationally.

Luke 2:1
"Now in those days a decree went out from Caesar Augustus, that a census be taken of all the inhabited earth."​

Did Augustus have the people in China, Papua New Guinea, the Andes, and Native America counted? If not then the census was not taken from all the inhabited earth.

No thinking person reads Luke 2:1 literally. Why then does anyone do it with such a clearly figurative and symbolic passage as the harlot passage? Because their eschatology tells them to do so! Because their eisegetically informed teachers tell them to do so! The woman, the wine, the beast, seven heads and the ten horns are all symbolic of something real but for some reason all that symbolism can be recognized as figurative but the mention of "all nations" cannot and must not be treated figuratively along with the entirety of the rest of the passage.

So the harlot's deceit is best understood as over all the nations known in her day, or all the nations over which she had influence, perhaps solely about the twelve "nations" of Israel but the former is more likely (more exegtical).


Now this is not to say some mentions of "all nation" or "everything in creation," or "the whole earth" are not to be taken literally. Proper exegesis and discernment informs us which is which.

Colossians 1:13-20
"For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities — all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven."​

Jesus is Lord of all the earth. Literally .