Is the Catholic Church the Harlot of Babylon?

Michie

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A close look at what the Bible says

There are a lot of folks who have been taught that the Roman Catholic Church is the harlot of Babylon that is spoken of in chapter 17 of the Book of Revelation: “I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of blasphemous names…and on her forehead was written a name of mystery: ‘Babylon the great, mother of harlots…” (vv. 3-5).

They point to two main verses to “prove” that the woman (the harlot) is the Roman Catholic Church. Those verses are: 1) Rev 17:9…“This calls for a mind with wisdom; the seven heads are seven hills on which the woman is seated,” and 2) Rev 17:18…“And the woman that you saw is the great city which has dominion over the kings of the earth.”

“See,” they say, “the seven hills means Rome, which is a city that sits on seven hills. The Catholic Church is headquartered in Rome. And, Rome was the great city that had dominion over the kings of the earth. Therefore, the harlot of Babylon is a world-wide religion that is based in Rome.” Wow. Open and shut case, right? Well, not so fast.

I’m going to make the case, using just the Bible, as to why I believe the harlot of Babylon is not the Catholic Church, but rather the city of Jerusalem. Let’s look a little more closely at some of these verses from Revelation 17.

Revelation 17:1, “Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who is seated upon many waters.” How is the nation of Israel often referred to in the Old Testament? As a harlot. Why? Because Israel quite often would forsake worship of the one true God, and would turn instead to the worship of false gods. The relationship between God and Israel is frequently described in marital terms. Therefore, when Israel would forsake her true Spouse, she was described as a harlot…a harlot. Hosea 9:1, “Rejoice not, O Israel! Exult not like the peoples; for you have played the harlot, forsaking your God. You have loved a harlot’s hire upon all threshing floors.” So, we see from the Old Testament that Israel is often referred to as a harlot.

Revelation 17:3, “…and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of blasphemous names, and it had seven heads and ten horns.” And, verse 9-10: “This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven hills on which the woman is seated; they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come….” What do we see here? We see that the seven hills pertain to the beast on which the woman is seated, not the woman herself. I believe, as do most folks I’ve read– Catholic and Protestant — that the beast is symbolic of Rome and the Roman Empire. So, again, the seven hills are referring to the beast the woman is seated upon, not the woman herself. But, if Rome is the beast, then that “proves” the woman sitting on the beast is the Catholic Church, right? Again, not so fast.

Continued below.
 
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Cosmic Charlie

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A close look at what the Bible says

There are a lot of folks who have been taught that the Roman Catholic Church is the harlot of Babylon that is spoken of in chapter 17 of the Book of Revelation: “I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of blasphemous names…and on her forehead was written a name of mystery: ‘Babylon the great, mother of harlots…” (vv. 3-5).

They point to two main verses to “prove” that the woman (the harlot) is the Roman Catholic Church. Those verses are: 1) Rev 17:9…“This calls for a mind with wisdom; the seven heads are seven hills on which the woman is seated,” and 2) Rev 17:18…“And the woman that you saw is the great city which has dominion over the kings of the earth.”

“See,” they say, “the seven hills means Rome, which is a city that sits on seven hills. The Catholic Church is headquartered in Rome. And, Rome was the great city that had dominion over the kings of the earth. Therefore, the harlot of Babylon is a world-wide religion that is based in Rome.” Wow. Open and shut case, right? Well, not so fast.

I’m going to make the case, using just the Bible, as to why I believe the harlot of Babylon is not the Catholic Church, but rather the city of Jerusalem. Let’s look a little more closely at some of these verses from Revelation 17.

Revelation 17:1, “Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who is seated upon many waters.” How is the nation of Israel often referred to in the Old Testament? As a harlot. Why? Because Israel quite often would forsake worship of the one true God, and would turn instead to the worship of false gods. The relationship between God and Israel is frequently described in marital terms. Therefore, when Israel would forsake her true Spouse, she was described as a harlot…a harlot. Hosea 9:1, “Rejoice not, O Israel! Exult not like the peoples; for you have played the harlot, forsaking your God. You have loved a harlot’s hire upon all threshing floors.” So, we see from the Old Testament that Israel is often referred to as a harlot.

Revelation 17:3, “…and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of blasphemous names, and it had seven heads and ten horns.” And, verse 9-10: “This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven hills on which the woman is seated; they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come….” What do we see here? We see that the seven hills pertain to the beast on which the woman is seated, not the woman herself. I believe, as do most folks I’ve read– Catholic and Protestant — that the beast is symbolic of Rome and the Roman Empire. So, again, the seven hills are referring to the beast the woman is seated upon, not the woman herself. But, if Rome is the beast, then that “proves” the woman sitting on the beast is the Catholic Church, right? Again, not so fast.

Continued below.
This is why I hate interpreting Revelation as ANYTHING other than a parable written in an excellent example of Apocalyptic style.

The quote the great Jackie Kashian the subject:

It's not going to happen, it's just a story telling you you should be a good person. Be a good person, help the person next to you when times are hard. And, here's a new flash: If you're trying to bring about the Rapture by going bad things, they're not taking bad people in the Rapture. You've missed the point there. But the Rapture isn't going to happen, it's just a story: be good to each other.
 
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Lady Bug

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This is why I hate interpreting Revelation as ANYTHING other than a parable written in an excellent example of Apocalyptic style.

The quote the great Jackie Kashian the subject:
OK I'm going to end up asking a priest about this but I've been confused as to how the church interprets much of Revelation symbolically, but when it comes to the "prayers of the saints" thing, they interpret that literally. It's a roadblock to something in my life right now.
 
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Michie

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OK I'm going to end up asking a priest about this but I've been confused as to how the church interprets much of Revelation symbolically, but when it comes to the "prayers of the saints" thing, they interpret that literally. It's a roadblock to something in my life right now.
There is a Scott Hahn book out. I believe it called The Lamb’s Supper if I remember correctly. There is a lot of discussion of Revelation in it.
 
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Lady Bug

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There is a Scott Hahn book out. I believe it called The Lamb’s Supper if I remember correctly. There is a lot of discussion of Revelation in it.
Sorry, I didn't know about it. I have such a hard problem reading a book anymore (I can never finish it, let alone even get through a fourth of it). However, this might be a good book for at least reference purposes.
 
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Michie

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Sorry, I didn't know about it. I have such a hard problem reading a book anymore (I can never finish it, let alone even get through a fourth of it). However, this might be a good book for at least reference purposes.
Scott Hahn books are full of nuggets but are quick and easy reads.
 
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Jan001

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Most of the prophecies in the Book of Revelation were fulfilled by AD 70.

What has not been physically fulfilled? I think Revelation 20:7-15 and Revelation 21. The Church is the spiritual New Jerusalem of Revelation 21 and it is active now on earth, but the physical New Jerusalem will not be fulfilled until after the last judgment.

John 14:2 In my Father’s house there are many dwelling places. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?

The Book of Revelation and all the other books of the NT Bible were written before or about the mid-60s AD. The Book of Revelation was written to inform the early Christians what to expect in the next few years. It warned them to leave Jerusalem before it was sieged by the Roman armies. It warned them that the time for the fulfillment of Daniel's prophecy was at hand.

As I said, the Book of Revelation informed the early Christians about what was soon to occur. But the Book of Daniel was sealed until the time of the end, which was the time period between Jesus' resurrection and the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple.

Revelation 1:1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place; he made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,

Please note that Daniel was instructed to keep the words secret and the book sealed until the time of the end (of the Jewish temple religious system, which was symbolized as the heaven and the earth of the Jews).

Daniel 12:4 But you, Daniel, keep the words secret and the book sealed until the time of the end. Many shall be running back and forth, and evil shall increase.”
 
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7 hills - because anything rising up from the bottom of the earth [Continents] is but a hill to the Lord.

And all shall do no more trade... which is secular, worldly and money.
 
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WarriorAngel

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But wait, that's not all...
[The commercial hit me, sorry lol] :help:


Revelation 3:

7 And to the angel of the church of Philadelphia, write: These things saith the Holy One and the true one, he that hath the key of David; he that openeth, and no man shutteth; shutteth, and no man openeth: 8 I know thy works. Behold, I have given before thee a door opened, which no man can shut: because thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. 9 Behold, I will bring of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie. Behold, I will make them to come and adore before thy feet. And they shall know that I have loved thee. 10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I will also keep thee from the hour of the temptation, which shall come upon the whole world to try them that dwell upon the earth.


Also the Blessed and Saints have repeated the meaning - Jesus will destroy the wicked [and evil be again chained], and the Church will again be put into the right place of honor, and then after many more years then the end shall come ...

Of course, many dying by natural disasters - where those alive cry out wishing for the mountains to fall on them will have to restart.
 
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AlexB23

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A close look at what the Bible says

There are a lot of folks who have been taught that the Roman Catholic Church is the harlot of Babylon that is spoken of in chapter 17 of the Book of Revelation: “I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of blasphemous names…and on her forehead was written a name of mystery: ‘Babylon the great, mother of harlots…” (vv. 3-5).

They point to two main verses to “prove” that the woman (the harlot) is the Roman Catholic Church. Those verses are: 1) Rev 17:9…“This calls for a mind with wisdom; the seven heads are seven hills on which the woman is seated,” and 2) Rev 17:18…“And the woman that you saw is the great city which has dominion over the kings of the earth.”

“See,” they say, “the seven hills means Rome, which is a city that sits on seven hills. The Catholic Church is headquartered in Rome. And, Rome was the great city that had dominion over the kings of the earth. Therefore, the harlot of Babylon is a world-wide religion that is based in Rome.” Wow. Open and shut case, right? Well, not so fast.

I’m going to make the case, using just the Bible, as to why I believe the harlot of Babylon is not the Catholic Church, but rather the city of Jerusalem. Let’s look a little more closely at some of these verses from Revelation 17.

Revelation 17:1, “Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who is seated upon many waters.” How is the nation of Israel often referred to in the Old Testament? As a harlot. Why? Because Israel quite often would forsake worship of the one true God, and would turn instead to the worship of false gods. The relationship between God and Israel is frequently described in marital terms. Therefore, when Israel would forsake her true Spouse, she was described as a harlot…a harlot. Hosea 9:1, “Rejoice not, O Israel! Exult not like the peoples; for you have played the harlot, forsaking your God. You have loved a harlot’s hire upon all threshing floors.” So, we see from the Old Testament that Israel is often referred to as a harlot.

Revelation 17:3, “…and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of blasphemous names, and it had seven heads and ten horns.” And, verse 9-10: “This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven hills on which the woman is seated; they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come….” What do we see here? We see that the seven hills pertain to the beast on which the woman is seated, not the woman herself. I believe, as do most folks I’ve read– Catholic and Protestant — that the beast is symbolic of Rome and the Roman Empire. So, again, the seven hills are referring to the beast the woman is seated upon, not the woman herself. But, if Rome is the beast, then that “proves” the woman sitting on the beast is the Catholic Church, right? Again, not so fast.

Continued below.
I agree with you entirely. The Catholic Church is not the harlot. Jerusalem was, plus the Vatican city did not exist until centuries after these verses were written.


In fact, here is a summary of the article, in full for those who do somehow do not like reading articles:

John Martignoni's article argues against the common belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the harlot of Babylon mentioned in Revelation 17. He asserts that the Bible itself points to Jerusalem as the true identity of the harlot. Martignoni begins by explaining how some people use Revelation 17:9 and 18 to argue that the Roman Catholic Church is the harlot because Rome is a city built on seven hills, and the woman in Revelation 17:18 is described as a great city that rules over the kings of the earth.

However, Martignoni challenges this interpretation by pointing out that Israel is often referred to as a harlot in the Old Testament and that the seven hills mentioned in Revelation 17:9 are not referring to the woman herself but rather the beast she is seated upon. He also argues that verse 18 describes the city of Rome, making it identical to the beast and thus contradicting the idea that the harlot is a separate entity. Martignoni then suggests that Vatican City, where the Catholic Church is headquartered, cannot be the harlot since it did not exist until the early 20th century and could not have had dominion over all the kings of the earth at the time John wrote Revelation.

He further argues that Jerusalem, as the capital city of God's chosen people and the seat of the line of David, did indeed have dominion over the kings of the earth. He cites verses in Revelation 17 and Matthew 23 to support his claim that Jerusalem is the harlot. Finally, Martignoni points out that the Bible describes the harlot as a city and not a church, making it unlikely that the Catholic Church is the harlot. He concludes by encouraging readers to reconsider their understanding of Revelation 17 in light of these scriptural arguments.
 
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AlexB23

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You need to read the rules of this forum. You can fellowship here but you cannot debate or teach here.
Thank you for saving me from having to write a response towards Oikonomia. :) I am surprised that he wanted to say stuff about our Catholic Church. I am a Catholic myself, and felt somewhat offended when he said the RCC is a harlot, which it clearly is not.
 
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Michie

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Thank you for saving me from having to write a response towards Oikonomia. :) I am surprised that he wanted to say stuff about our Catholic Church. I am a Catholic myself, and felt somewhat offended when he said the RCC is a harlot, which it clearly is not.
Yes. I’m tired of people coming in here and taking threads that are meant to educate and debating the topics posted or attempting to teach.
 
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AlexB23

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Yes. I’m tired of people coming in here and taking threads that are meant to educate and debating the topics posted or attempting to teach.
Agreed. It makes it difficult for me to even want to post here, or even post simple summaries of articles that you post, cos then someone else wants to debate with a guy like me, who just wants to summarize the article for others to read. I am not into debates, but am into helping people. Oiko could have read the SOP here. Guess I should summarize the SOP for people as well. :)
 
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Michie

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Agreed. It makes it difficult for me to even want to post here, or even post simple summaries of articles that you post, cos then someone else wants to debate with a guy like me, who just wants to summarize the article for others to read. I am not into debates, but am into helping people. Oiko could have read the SOP here. Guess I should summarize the SOP for people as well. :)
I’m pretty much the same Alex. I really have been enjoying your summaries I can’t tell you how many times people have gone off on topics that are already covered in the article because they chose to comment without reading the content.
 
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AlexB23

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I’m pretty much the same Alex. I really have been enjoying your summaries I can’t tell you how many times people have gone off on topics that are already covered in the article because they chose to comment without reading the content.
Thank you, friend. That is why I have started summarizing articles, cos not everyone reads the articles. People comment after only reading the first paragraph of the articles, it seems.
 
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Michie

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Thank you, friend. That is why I have started summarizing articles, cos not everyone reads the articles. People comment after only reading the first paragraph of the articles, it seems.
True. Things get easily twisted and derailed when that happens. I have seen long threads in the political sections etc, and when one reads the op as compared to what is actually being discussed it can be quite the head scratcher! Lol!
 
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AlexB23

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True. Things get easily twisted and derailed when that happens. I have seen long threads in the political sections etc, and when one reads the op as compared to what is actually being discussed it can be quite the head scratcher! Lol!
Yep, so that is why sometimes I quote the OP again, to remind people what the original post was. Also, I try to stay off political forums.
 
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