Mystery Babylon

[Barraco]

Hello everyone. Been hitting the books a lot, and still getting at it.

I think I am changing my opinion on who Babylon is. For the longest time, I looked at it as Rome, Istanbul, or some other Gentile Empire. I am now under the opinion it is Jerusalem. I did not come to this interpretation easily and it took a great deal of debate before changing my position.

The beast she rides are all the kingdoms that ruled over Babylon after the LORD departed the temple in the days of Ezekiel. According to Zechariah 5:5-11, the house built for wickedness was among the exiles in Babylon. So that makes Babylon the first head of the beast, conquered by Nebuchadnezzar. Cyrus of Persia conquered it from the Babylonians. Alexander the Great conquered Jerusalen from the Persians but it passed to Ptolemy I of Egypt before he could formally rule it. Antiochus III of Seleucia conquered Jerusalem from the Egyptians. Judah Maccabees conquered Jerusalem from the Seleucids and ruled over a Jewish Empire until Augustus Caesar of the Romans conquered it. The Romans (Ottomans included) held onto control of Jerusalem from 37 BC to 1923, when the Mandate passed to George V of Great Britain. They held onto it until 1948, when the nation of Israel was created.

Those are the seven heads. The ten horns, I believe, are the nation of Israel. Israel was a name for the Northern Kingdom in the Old Testament, also called Ephraim. This kingdom consisted of the ten tribes of Israel while the Southern Kingdom of Judah, with the tribes of Judah and Benjamin ruled over Jerusalem. Rev 17 says these will give their power and authority over to the beast. This beast that was wounded by the sword and yet lived is a Jewish Empire. We are on the cusp of this as Israel has determined to exterminate Hamas, refuse Palestine to be ruled by Palestinian authorities, and has threatened to end negotiations with Hezbollah in Lebanon by March 15th.

Perhaps we are at the eve of the events of Daniel 11:40-45 and haven’t realized it yet. Jesus said He would come as a thief in an hour He’s least expected…

 

[Water and Fire]

Hello everyone. Been hitting the books a lot, and still getting at it.

I think I am changing my opinion on who Babylon is. For the longest time, I looked at it as Rome, Istanbul, or some other Gentile Empire. I am now under the opinion it is Jerusalem. I did not come to this interpretation easily and it took a great deal of debate before changing my position.

The beast she rides are all the kingdoms that ruled over Babylon after the LORD departed the temple in the days of Ezekiel. According to Zechariah 5:5-11, the house built for wickedness was among the exiles in Babylon. So that makes Babylon the first head of the beast, conquered by Nebuchadnezzar. Cyrus of Persia conquered it from the Babylonians. Alexander the Great conquered Jerusalen from the Persians but it passed to Ptolemy I of Egypt before he could formally rule it. Antiochus III of Seleucia conquered Jerusalem from the Egyptians. Judah Maccabees conquered Jerusalem from the Seleucids and ruled over a Jewish Empire until Augustus Caesar of the Romans conquered it. The Romans (Ottomans included) held onto control of Jerusalem from 37 BC to 1923, when the Mandate passed to George V of Great Britain. They held onto it until 1948, when the nation of Israel was created.

Those are the seven heads. The ten horns, I believe, are the nation of Israel. Israel was a name for the Northern Kingdom in the Old Testament, also called Ephraim. This kingdom consisted of the ten tribes of Israel while the Southern Kingdom of Judah, with the tribes of Judah and Benjamin ruled over Jerusalem. Rev 17 says these will give their power and authority over to the beast. This beast that was wounded by the sword and yet lived is a Jewish Empire. We are on the cusp of this as Israel has determined to exterminate Hamas, refuse Palestine to be ruled by Palestinian authorities, and has threatened to end negotiations with Hezbollah in Lebanon by March 15th.

Perhaps we are at the eve of the events of Daniel 11:40-45 and haven’t realized it yet. Jesus said He would come as a thief in an hour He’s least expected…

I don't know if you understand about types and shadows, but it is not physical Israel that is Babylon.

 

[Douggg]

Mystery Babylon the Great is the mystical (non physical) kingdom of Satan and his angels. Revelation 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

The first person to be slain was when Cain slew his brother Abel. No earthly power, nor kingdom, can be responsible for all slain upon the earth over the course of human history.

In Revelation 18, beginning in verse 2, talks about the fall of Babylon the great, and throughout the rest of the chapter compares the fall of Babylon the great as to the sudden fall of a great trading city.

In Revelation 12:7-9, when Satan and his angels are cast down to earth - i.e. fallen - it is the first step to God's dismantling of Satan and his angels' mystical (non physical) kingdom. The complete end of it is at Jesus's Second Coming.

The reference to existence of Mystery Babylon the Great is in Revelation 17:5 as MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

So like all slain up the earth, that description does not fit an earthly power, nor kingdom. But is applying to Satan and his angels' mystical (non-physical) kingdom.

 

[RandyPNW]

Hello everyone. Been hitting the books a lot, and still getting at it.

I think I am changing my opinion on who Babylon is. For the longest time, I looked at it as Rome, Istanbul, or some other Gentile Empire. I am now under the opinion it is Jerusalem. I did not come to this interpretation easily and it took a great deal of debate before changing my position.

I've looked at Jerusalem as the possible "Great harlot." But Jerusalem is not "great." Rome was "great" in John's time. Jerusalem has been viewed, biblically, as a "harlot." But in the endtimes we look forward to Jerusalem's restoration. Rome will be "burned." You have to form your own opinion, though. Take care....

 

[Qubit]

I am now under the opinion it is Jerusalem.

The first person to be slain was when Cain slew his brother Abel. No earthly power, nor kingdom, can be responsible for all slain upon the earth over the course of human history.

Perfect, now start putting the two concepts together and the Mystery will be revealed.

I will give you folks some hints...

Genesis 4:11
"And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother’s blood from thy hand"

Who drank Abel's Blood? It was EARTH. Simple. One verse reveals who she is. keep adding up the evidence...

Isaiah 26:21
"For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain."

• Who will disclose the Blood she drank? EARTH.
• Who will no more cover her slain? EARTH.

One more hint...

Matthew 23:35
"That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar."

What happens to the Blood after Earth drinks it? It gets placed onto Earthly Jerusalem. From there it goes somewhere else.

I will stop here for now.

 

[Qubit]

So that makes Babylon the first head of the beast, conquered by Nebuchadnezzar.

My opinion...

 

[Qubit]

I've looked at Jerusalem as the possible "Great harlot." But Jerusalem is not "great."

Let Scripture reveal who is great or not...

Revelation 11:8
"And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified."

• Sodom = Corruption
• Egypt = Bondage

If you folks really want to understand Mystery Babylon, you need to understand why Earthly Jerusalem gives birth to Children under bondage...

Galatians 4:24 (New International Version)
"These things are being taken figuratively: The women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar."

It is all about Biological Moms, Biological Fathers, Covenants and Promises.

Think Salvation people. Do not get lost in all the weeds of things that do not matter. Stick with Scripture!

 

[Berean Tim]

I don't know if you understand about types and shadows, but it is not physical Israel that is Babylon.

What physical city is it ?

 

[Berean Tim]

I've looked at Jerusalem as the possible "Great harlot." But Jerusalem is not "great." Rome was "great" in John's time. Jerusalem has been viewed, biblically, as a "harlot." But in the endtimes we look forward to Jerusalem's restoration. Rome will be "burned." You have to form your own opinion, though. Take care....

Revelation 18:
24And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints,
and of all who have been slain on earth.”
Rome didn't kill the Prophets

 

[Douggg]

Perfect, now start putting the two concepts together and the Mystery will be revealed.

I will give you folks some hints...

Genesis 4:11
"And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother’s blood from thy hand"

Who drank Abel's Blood? It was EARTH. Simple. One verse reveals who she is. keep adding up the evidence...

Isaiah 26:21
"For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain."

• Who will disclose the Blood she drank? EARTH.
• Who will no more cover her slain? EARTH.

One more hint...

Matthew 23:35
"That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar."

What happens to the Blood after Earth drinks it? It gets placed onto Earthly Jerusalem. From there it goes somewhere else.

I will stop here for now.

Jerusalem did not exist at the time Cain slew Abel.

 

[RandyPNW]

Let Scripture reveal who is great or not...

Revelation 11:8
"And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified."

• Sodom = Corruption
• Egypt = Bondage

If you folks really want to understand Mystery Babylon, you need to understand why Earthly Jerusalem gives birth to Children under bondage...

Galatians 4:24 (New International Version)
"These things are being taken figuratively: The women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar."

It is all about Biological Moms, Biological Fathers, Covenants and Promises.

Think Salvation people. Do not get lost in all the weeds of things that do not matter. Stick with Scripture!

Good point. I do think the "great city" in Rev 11 may be Jerusalem, because it is where Jesus was crucified, although he was also crucified under a Roman governor. Nevertheless, Rev 17 speaks of a great city that rules over that part of the world, which has to be Rome.

Rev 17.18 The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”

So the "greatness" of this city is more of a *political greatness* than any other kind of greatness that you may want to apply. Jerusalem was *not* great, politically, except perhaps in the time of Solomon.

The "greatness" of Jerusalem was in the residence of the "great King," God Almighty. But the city referred to in Rev 17 is not "great" because God is there, but rather, because it is *politically great.* But again, you're entitled to your opinion.

 

[Douggg]

My opinion...

View attachment 343945​

The 7 heads also are 7 kings. Not 7 kingdoms.

5 fallen, one is, one is yet to come at the time John

In Revelation 17 no crowns on the 7 heads. (prophecy about the 7 kings incomplete)
In Revelation 12 crowns on the 7 heads. (prophecy about the 7 kings complete)
In Revelation 13 no crowns on the 7 heads, one head mortally wounded but healed (prophecy about the 7 kings over - the mortal wounded but healed head is king 7, who continues a short space of 42 months as the beast-king, king 8)

Revelation 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

 

[RandyPNW]

Revelation 18:
24And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints,
and of all who have been slain on earth.”
Rome didn't kill the Prophets

Actually, Rome killed Jesus, the Apostles, and many NT prophets.

 

[Qubit]

Jerusalem did not exist at the time Cain slew Abel.

I disagree.

There are many who believe Eden was Jerusalem. It is where the Mountain of God was.

The Garden represented the Temple where the Cherubim are.

Here is a reference...

"For ancient Israel, the Temple of Solomon—indeed, the Temple Mount and all Jerusalem—was a symbol as well as a reality, a mythopoeic realization of heaven on earth, Paradise, the Garden of Eden."

Jerusalem as Eden - The BAS Library

For ancient Israel, the Temple of Solomon—indeed, the Temple Mount and all Jerusalem—was a symbol as well as a reality, a mythopoeic realization of heaven on earth, Paradise, the Garden of Eden. After King David’s conquest of Jerusalem, the site became the “City of David.” But it was much more...

library.biblicalarchaeology.org

 

[BeeFive]

Babylon is basically the antichrist's (which means instead of christ) one world political AND one world religious system that God allows him to accomplish at the Woe of the 6th trumpet.

Rev 12:7 Lucifer/satan/dragon is thrown out of heaven to earth along with the fallen angels and is here on earth for 5 months( rev 9)

The 3 woe trumpets need to be read .
(they are the woe of the 5,6 and 7 trumpets of revelation.)

God is in control and He uses lucifer/satan as a "rod" for punishment because people are not honoring, revering God , but worhipping other so called gods which are not God.
God tells us what is going to happen because people are worshipping others..false gods who are not gods, or themselves as gods instead of the Creator..

Woe of the 5th trumpet:

1.) Rev 12:7 God is going to have Michael kick lucifer/(satan/the devil/the dragon/the serpent/the "antichrist" (which is instead of Christ ).. which are all names and "roles" lucifer plays... and the "fallen" angels out of Heaven to the earth.(Rev 12:7) for 5 months(Rev 9)
Lucifer in his "role" of dragon(Rev 13) "confirms the covenant of many(Dan 9:27) and sets up 10 of the "fallen" angels as kings to set up and rule a one world political government( Rev 13), Daniel 11:21-30, Rev 9 . (Lucifer and the fallen angels are in supernatural bodies,not a flesh body).

This is the Woe of the 5th trumpet which lasts for 2.5 months.(there are 3 woe trumpets)
The 7 year covenant of Dan 9:27 has been shortened to 5 months because "if God had not shortened those days, no flesh would be saved" (Matthew 24:22... Rev 9)

Not everyone wants this one world system and there is a "deadly wound"(rev 13)

Then:

Woe of the 6th trumpet:

Then comes the woe of the 6th trumpet( Daniel 11:31-39) Rev 9:13 and Rev 13:11) which lasts the last 2.5 months of the 5 month test.

So God then has lucifer go to Jerusalem, and satan claims to be Jesus(but is really instead of Jesus) to test everyone to see if they will believe lucifer and follow him..
People who are biblically illiterate and ignorant of the Bible, will believe lucifer is Jesus because he will be doing all kinds of supernatural miracles (which God allows..again, God is using satan to do this test).

Deceived People who believe satan is Jesus will stop fighting against the one world political system , as satan "heals the deadly wound", and restores the OWO and sets up the one world religion system... system Babylon(headquarters is jerusalem)
Anyone who goes into this religious/political system will have taken "the mark of the beast" (rev 13) which means they worship satan as Jesus. Satans "world" is Babylon which means confusion. It is The 6th trumpet where he rules.(his "city".. one world political and religion system)

Satan knows he has little time, and kills the 2 witnesses who are witnessing against him as the fake that he is... after 3.5 days , God resurrects them and then satan gathers whoever he can to fight Jesus and the army of heaven with Jesus who come to earth to fight satan and the fallen angels at the Woe of the 7th trumpet .(Daniel 11:40-45)
The woe of the 7th which is also Ezekiel 38 and 39 battles and the battle of armageddon in Rev.

Jesus gathers us at the woe of the 7th trumpet 2nd advent and not before. This is also the 1st resurrection for those who refuse to follow satan.
Everyone is tested.

The 5 months is satan's tribulation

The Great Tribulation starts at the woe of the 7th trumpet and is the 1000 mellenium/wrath of God on those who choose to follow satan. They will have 1000 years to get "purged".. there is a 2nd resurrection for these people who at the end of the mellenium 1000 years refuse satan when he is then released from the pit to again test them.

So those are the 2 tribulations.

 

[keras]

In Bible Prophecy Babylon is referred to as a concept, as a state of mind, as something we must avoid becoming like.

Isaiah 47:1-4 Come down and sit in the dust, virgin daughter of Babylon. Lose your place of rule, you daughter of the Babylonians, never again will you be called beautiful. When the Lord takes vengeance, with no clemency for anyone, your shame will be exposed. But your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel.

Isaiah 47:5-7 Sit in silence and go into darkness, you daughter of Babylon, for never again will you be called ‘the queen of the nations’. The Lord was angry with His people and he allowed the Land to be desecrated. I gave My people into your power and you showed them no mercy, you even made the elderly work. You said: ‘I will be powerful forever, the leader of the nations’, but you failed to realize that there will come a Day of Reckoning.

Isaiah 47:8-10 Now; you lover of luxury and given to pleasures, carefree in your power and thinking that nothing will change, listen to this: Suddenly, in an instant, in a single Day, disaster will befall you. You trust in sorceries and witchcraft and in your wickedness, you think that no one sees your sins. Your wisdom and knowledge have led you astray and you have said: I am, and there is none beside me.

Isaiah 47:11-12 Therefore a calamity will fall upon you, one that you cannot see or prevent. Ruin and catastrophe will suddenly overtake you. Persist in your godless ways and false beliefs that you have always held to, maybe help will come from them, perhaps you will keep some strength!

Isaiah 47:13-15 Yet, in spite of your many experts and astrologers, you are powerless and all your stargazers cannot save you from what is coming. They will be as stubble when the fire burns them up, they will not save themselves from the heat of the flames. This will not be a glowing coal to warm anyone, this will not be a fire to sit by! So much for those who have advised you, they continue in their error and they will not help you.


Virgin daughter of Babylon: It is evident that this is not the original Babylon, or the actual descendants of them, as this Bible passage refers to a later people, [Jeremiah 51:7] who are in a ‘place of rule, the queen of the nations’, and who are thought of as ‘beautiful’, that is: prosperous and desirable. They are ‘lovers of luxury, given to pleasures and carefree in their power’. Their ‘wisdom and knowledge has led them astray’, that is: their scientists promote evolution, gene manipulation etc. Their teachers refute the Bible and the Ten Commandments, their lawyers think they have done well if they get a guilty person off and now their leaders pursue policies of appeasement and aggrandizement. They are a ‘type’ of Babylon.

‘They cannot save you from what is coming’. ‘On the Day of Reckoning, when the Lord takes vengeance’, all those types of people ‘will be as stubble, they will not save themselves from the heat of the flames. Suddenly, in one Day, calamity will befall you’. This will be the terrible Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, the next prophesied event that we can expect, a judgement of fire in the form of an enormous mass of superheated particles ejected from the sun. Isaiah 66:15-17

Sit in silence, go into darkness. After the disaster of the Day of the Lord, the huge fires of the cities and forests and also volcanic eruptions will cause the sky to darken for quite a long period. The survivors will have time to contemplate their wayward lives and those who can change will turn to the Lord in faith and trust in Him for their salvation and protection. Jeremiah 51:50, Joel 2:32

Revelation 18:4-8 Come out of her, My people, lest you have any part of her sins and you share in her punishments. Disaster will strike in a single Day and she will perish in flames, for mighty is the Lord, who has pronounced her doom! Jeremiah 51:5-6

TAKE NOTE; You are wearied in the multitude of counsellors. The advice from experts and prognosticators is useless and cannot save you from what must come upon the world. Isaiah 47:13
The Prophetic Word is the only truthful source of what God has planned for our future. Isaiah 47:9 and Revelation 18:8, plus other Prophesies, plainly state that disaster will strike the world over a 24 hour period. Zephaniah 3:8, Romans 1:18
We are told what the Lord will use to carry out this punishment and when He will send it. Believe it, or reject it at your peril!

 

[Douggg]

I disagree.

The first mention of Jerusalem in the bible is Joshua 10:1

JERUSALEM IN THE BIBLE

See 'Jerusalem' instances in the King James Version (KJV).

www.kingjamesbibleonline.org

It is impossible for Jerusalem to be responsible for all slain upon the earth.

 

[Douggg]

Babylon is basically the antichrist's (which means instead of christ) one world political AND one world religious system that God allows him to accomplish at the Woe of the 6th trumpet.

Rev 12:7 Lucifer/satan/dragon is thrown out of heaven to earth along with the fallen angels and is here on earth for 5 months( rev 9)

The 3 woe trumpets need to be read .
(they are the woe of the 5,6 and 7 trumpets of revelation.)

God is in control and He uses lucifer/satan as a "rod" for punishment because people are not honoring, revering God , but worhipping other so called gods which are not God.
God tells us what is going to happen because people are worshipping others..false gods who are not gods, or themselves as gods instead of the Creator..

Woe of the 5th trumpet:

1.) Rev 12:7 God is going to have Michael kick lucifer/(satan/the devil/the dragon/the serpent/the "antichrist" (which is instead of Christ ).. which are all names and "roles" lucifer plays... and the "fallen" angels out of Heaven to the earth.(Rev 12:7) for 5 months(Rev 9)
Lucifer in his "role" of dragon(Rev 13) "confirms the covenant of many(Dan 9:27) and sets up 10 of the "fallen" angels as kings to set up and rule a one world political government( Rev 13), Daniel 11:21-30, Rev 9 . (Lucifer and the fallen angels are in supernatural bodies,not a flesh body).

This is the Woe of the 5th trumpet which lasts for 2.5 months.(there are 3 woe trumpets)
The 7 year covenant of Dan 9:27 has been shortened to 5 months because "if God had not shortened those days, no flesh would be saved" (Matthew 24:22... Rev 9)

Not everyone wants this one world system and there is a "deadly wound"(rev 13)

Then:

Woe of the 6th trumpet:

Then comes the woe of the 6th trumpet( Daniel 11:31-39) Rev 9:13 and Rev 13:11) which lasts the last 2.5 months of the 5 month test.

So God then has lucifer go to Jerusalem, and satan claims to be Jesus(but is really instead of Jesus) to test everyone to see if they will believe lucifer and follow him..
People who are biblically illiterate and ignorant of the Bible, will believe lucifer is Jesus because he will be doing all kinds of supernatural miracles (which God allows..again, God is using satan to do this test).

Deceived People who believe satan is Jesus will stop fighting against the one world political system , as satan "heals the deadly wound", and restores the OWO and sets up the one world religion system... system Babylon(headquarters is jerusalem)
Anyone who goes into this religious/political system will have taken "the mark of the beast" (rev 13) which means they worship satan as Jesus. Satans "world" is Babylon which means confusion. It is The 6th trumpet where he rules.(his "city".. one world political and religion system)

Satan knows he has little time, and kills the 2 witnesses who are witnessing against him as the fake that he is... after 3.5 days , God resurrects them and then satan gathers whoever he can to fight Jesus and the army of heaven with Jesus who come to earth to fight satan and the fallen angels at the Woe of the 7th trumpet .(Daniel 11:40-45)
The woe of the 7th which is also Ezekiel 38 and 39 battles and the battle of armageddon in Rev.

Jesus gathers us at the woe of the 7th trumpet 2nd advent and not before. This is also the 1st resurrection for those who refuse to follow satan.
Everyone is tested.

The 5 months is satan's tribulation

The Great Tribulation starts at the woe of the 7th trumpet and is the 1000 mellenium/wrath of God on those who choose to follow satan. They will have 1000 years to get "purged".. there is a 2nd resurrection for these people who at the end of the mellenium 1000 years refuse satan when he is then released from the pit to again test them.

So those are the 2 tribulations.

Start with Revelation 19 and 20, at Jesus's Second Coming.

The beast - cast into the lake of fire
The false prophet - cast into the lake of fire
Satan- the dragon - cast into the bottomless pit

The little horn becomes the prince who shall come, who then becomes the Antichrist, who then becomes the revealed man of sin, who then becomes the beast-king.

The false prophet - a religious figure, not a king. Initially thought to be Elijah the prophet by the Jews.

Satan - an angel, who get cast down to earth, and indwells the statue image of the beast-king. Exposed on the temple mount by Jesus at His Second Coming.

 

[Water and Fire]

What physical city is it ?

That's what I am saying... it is not a physical city.

 

[Qubit]

It is impossible for Jerusalem to be responsible for all slain upon the earth.

Go back and read the verse I posted. Jesus disagrees with you.